Author Topic: Plot Power Tourney S5 Finals - Luna and Lucia double-champ for Lunar series? (Read 2613 times)

DjinnAndTonic · « **on:** November 14, 2008, 03:15:37 AM »

Godlike:
Kratos Aurion (ToS) vs. Althena/Luna (Lunar1) 1-6
Kyogre (PKMN) vs. Fei Fong Wong (XG) 1-6

Heavy:
Zack Fair (CCFF7) vs. Vahn (LoL) 4-0
Rei (BoF3) vs. Lucia (Lunar2) 2-6

Middle:
Flik (Suikos) vs. Mia (GS) 7-1
Gordon (Dis1) vs. Anise Tatlin (TotA) 4-1

Light:
Deneb (OB) vs. Jelanda Artolia (VP1) 4-3
Genis Sage (ToS) vs. Blank (FF9) 5-3

Hey, not too bad. The only unopposed victory this time around was Zack's. Rei put up a better fight against Lucia than I'd have expected, too. Sadly, our closest matches this week were in Light. Blank's run of terror has finally ended!

Godlike:
Althena/Luna (Lunar1) vs. Fei Fong Wong (XG)

Heavy:
Zack Fair (CCFF7) vs. Lucia (Lunar2)

Middle:
Flik (Suikos) vs. Gordon (Dis1)

Light:
Deneb (OB) vs. Genis Sage (ToS)

Please vote for who you think would win in a match based on plot powers/logic. Typically voting on endgame forms here, but you may take a duelist at the peak of their power if you prefer. If you don't know a duelist very well, you may still vote on them if you take some time to research their plot powers, I suppose.

Anyway, happy voting!

Dark Holy Elf · « **Reply #1 on:** November 14, 2008, 03:17:38 AM »

Godlike:
Althena/Luna (Lunar1) vs. Fei Fong Wong (XG): Ooh, now this one I'll await arguments for. Frankly both are held back by their personalities if anything... so who gets held back more?

Heavy:
Zack Fair (CCFF7) vs. Lucia (Lunar2): Kaboom.

Middle:
Flik (Suikos) vs. Gordon (Dis1): Runic magic. Disgaea human. Runic magic. Disgaea human. Uhhh...

Excal · « **Reply #2 on:** November 14, 2008, 05:56:27 AM »

Sweet, I can vote on them all this week.

Godlike:
Althena/Luna (Lunar1) vs. Fei Fong Wong (XG)
I agree with the Elven assessment. The main difference between them is that by the end of the game, Fei has mostly resolved his issues and integrated most of his personality flaws into a workable persona. Luna, on the other hand, doesn't get quite the same resolution, and it feels like her story ends with her powerful side being shut away once more, and maintaining that split. And since a whole personality which keeps the plot power is better than a split personality which embraces mortality, Fei wins.

Heavy:
Zack Fair (CCFF7) vs. Lucia (Lunar2)
Pft, you know Cloud wouldn't have failed right before the end*. Typical Zack and his failing to seal the deal. * WARNING! Anyone knowing this 'fact' is horribly incorrect and should be taken to the reprogramming room immeadiatly for their own good and safety!

Middle:
Flik (Suikos) vs. Gordon (Dis1)
Yeah... Gordon isn't taken that seriously in any way shape or form while Flik is well known wherever he goes.

Light:
Deneb (OB) vs. Genis Sage (ToS)
Slightly less plot power, but knows what she's doing.

DjinnAndTonic · « **Reply #3 on:** November 19, 2008, 10:21:25 PM »

Wow, this is supposed to close today... I may leave it open a little longer so people can actually vote... Otherwise, congrats to Excal for determining the results of the Finals...

-Djinn

Bardiche · « **Reply #4 on:** November 19, 2008, 10:34:39 PM »

Totally missed this thread. Wow.

Godlike:
Althena/Luna (Lunar1) vs. Fei Fong Wong (XG) - Kneejerk. Fei's a mentally unstable person until the end, Althena at some point gains mindhax powers and can control dragons. Think she can control Fei then, too, or at least shut down his body with her songs as she does to Tempest et all.

Heavy:
Zack Fair (CCFF7) vs. Lucia (Lunar2) - Lucia booms Zack.

Middle:
Flik (Suikos) vs. Gordon (Dis1) - Hypercompetent.

Light:
Deneb (OB) vs. Genis Sage (ToS) - Eh, Genis.

Rozalia · « **Reply #5 on:** November 20, 2008, 08:42:50 AM »

Middle:
Flik (Suikos) vs. Gordon (Dis1)- Yeah.

Meeplelard · « **Reply #6 on:** November 20, 2008, 02:07:43 PM »

Godlike:
Althena/Luna (Lunar1) vs. Fei Fong Wong (XG): ...fuck you Xenogears and your ambiguity in terms of power and shit.

Heavy:
Zack Fair (CCFF7) vs. Lucia (Lunar2): Lucia at full power is a beast, we've been over this. Zack...as bad ass and powerful as he is, taking on armies single handedly, dodging/parrying barrage of bullets like nothing just doesn't compare. Ok, he did defeat Genesis Avatar on his own, but pretty sure Lucia is stronger than that anyway.

Middle:
Flik (Suikos) vs. Gordon (Dis1): Going with the character whose from a more serious game for actual power and such. Also doesn't get his butt kicked by his side kick.

Light:
Deneb (OB) vs. Genis Sage (ToS): Half Elf < Some really talented witch.

superaielman · « **Reply #7 on:** November 20, 2008, 11:15:50 PM »

Godlike:
Althena/Luna (Lunar1) vs. Fei Fong Wong (XG)- Althena's pretty close to unbeatable.

Middle:
Flik (Suikos) vs. Gordon (Dis1)

Light:
Deneb (OB) vs. Genis Sage (ToS)- Deneb does a good job using both sides of the war for her own interests. Genis is Genis.

Cmdr_King · « **Reply #8 on:** November 21, 2008, 07:44:31 PM »

Godlike:
Althena/Luna (Lunar1) vs. Fei Fong Wong (XG)- I spent like an hour mulling this over. Basic conclusions.
- Both are mortal. Whether Althena was originally mortal or not is debatable, but Luna certainly is. Fei is obvious.
- Fei's power is essentially infinite. His plot power is, basically, "draw as much power as he wants to from the Zohar", which explicitly has no upper range to its output.
- Althena's power, at a given time, is finite. Lunar 2's backstory video suggests strongly that Althena's magic is mostly invested in her world, an in order to deliver a divine level beatdown she has to reclaim it (this happens with Zohar, and note that the Blue Star is not habitable after the fact.) While it seems that her power grows over time as her creation flourishes, at a given time it only matters so much.
- The last two don't matter much. Both are ultimately killable without earth-shattering powerlevels.
- Consequently, the battle comes down to personality. Fei, by game's end, is pretty laid back and would never unleash even a fraction of his power except to save someone. He's just not the type to cut loose in a friendly sporting match.
Luna, meanwhile, seems to handle Althena power very, very badly and be pretty "Back off, Mortal!" while using it. So, here, she seems much more likely to have the killer instinct needed to pull this off.

So, match to Althena/Luna (Lunar 1)

Heavy:
Zack Fair (CCFF7) vs. Lucia (Lunar2)- Eh, she's not immortal, and I wouldn't let her do the Althena Mode thing at a whim (unlike Althena herself). So... eh, Zack isn't inexperienced with this sort of thing.

Middle:
Flik (Suikos) vs. Gordon (Dis1)

Light:
Deneb (OB) vs. Genis Sage (ToS)- No vote.

Excal · « **Reply #9 on:** November 21, 2008, 08:02:01 PM »

I do find it amusing that the argument "In a match of equal powers, the one less in control of it wins" is winning.

Cmdr_King · « **Reply #10 on:** November 21, 2008, 08:07:10 PM »

Of course. Only a crazy person would actually USE the power to destroy all that lives.

Excal · « **Reply #11 on:** November 21, 2008, 08:18:34 PM »

And this is why I try to somewhat take it away from who would win in a fight to who is better. It means well adjusted people can win in Godlike against inferior crazies.

Bardiche · « **Reply #12 on:** November 21, 2008, 08:22:55 PM »

If we make it to who is better? I still hold Althena in higher respect. I never quite bought the "unlimited potential" argument for Fei so much, especially not because the character's display of power mostly draws from Id (who I consider a wholly different person altogether) and Fei himself doesn't... really... impress me that much.

On the other hand, Luna did do the "I sing my songs and i can has mindhax naow?" on the Black Dragon, and she lulled all the girls to sleep with it, and at some point temporarily stunned everyone's movements until Alex did some DRAGON MASTER SUPER HAX and stuff.

Point being she pretty much owned up those people, and I don't hold Fei to having part of Althena's powers imbued in his armor and weaponry.

Now, if you put Fei and Id as being one and the same? Id would so totally fuck Althena over.

Random Consonant · « **Reply #13 on:** November 21, 2008, 08:42:45 PM »

Not touching Althena vs. Fei with a ten foot pole

Flik (Suikos) vs. Gordon (Dis1)

SnowFire · « **Reply #14 on:** November 22, 2008, 03:22:17 AM »

Godlike:
Althena/Luna (Lunar1) vs. Fei Fong Wong (XG) - Godslayer vs. God. Even if you allow Althena her full powers, they're not really well defined which causes me to somewhat kneejerk against them. We do know that she at least needed Dragonmasters to "protect" her and presumably couldn't zap people half a world away with no consequences.

Heavy:
Zack Fair (CCFF7) vs. Lucia (Lunar2) - Something went horribly wrong here. Been over it before, but Lucia being in Light was my fault, but it was explicitly sucktastic Lucia, and she's now going to *triple* champ. Le sigh.

Middle:
Flik (Suikos) vs. Gordon (Dis1) - Not Gordon.

Light:
Deneb (OB) vs. Genis Sage (ToS) - Reasonably close, but kneejerking power over experience.

Excal · « **Reply #15 on:** November 22, 2008, 06:40:48 AM »

Here's the thing, Bard. By the end of the game, Fei has faced all of his inner personalities, including Id, and has integrated and mastered them all. If you take Fei at the height of his plot power, then you have to include Id as a lesser aspect of Fei that is under his complete control.

Cmdr_King · « **Reply #16 on:** November 22, 2008, 06:44:05 AM »

If you want a concrete example of Fei's endgame plot power... well, he destroys the Zohar. Which should be indestructible ("in the physical universe, the Zohar is perfect", ie basically a God and immortal).

Niu · « **Reply #17 on:** November 24, 2008, 10:30:24 PM »

Nonono, Fei never destroys Zohar.
He just shuts in down by detsroying Deus and release WE from it.

And Zohar does not produce power as in power "power". Rather, Zohar is a time space continum haxing Magentix Abnormal Matter. What it does is to manipulate the axis of space and time thus ovelaping the reality of multiple parallel universes onto one another to come up with the result ordered by its master. Its like a reality machine, and can be used to create a brand new universe if use right.

Also, Fei's power came from two seperate soruces, one is Zohar, another one is WE. Despite both sources grants the power of Phenomenal Transmuation (or in a different term, Local Matter Shift), the mechanic is completly different. Zohar's ability is stated above. While WE's power is simply as "I hax you because I am a uper world being and all beings lower than I is subject to my hax".

Though, we also need to take in the fact that Fei requires Xenogear for his full power. Xenogear is basically the evolved form of a specifly Fei oriented Anima Relic, and human body by itself is not a good bypass to channel power from Zohar and WE, terminal access through Anima Relic is necessary for max effcientcy output. Also, Xenogear is no ordinary Anima Relic, it is much closer to the original Zohar than rst of its kind, the only unit that can still function on its own after the Zohar got shut down. Which means, even at the state that Zohar got shut down, Fei is still beable to chanel Zohar like power or from WE as long as he has Xenogear.

Dhyerwolf · « **Reply #18 on:** November 24, 2008, 11:04:19 PM »

Godlike:
Althena/Luna (Lunar1) vs. Fei Fong Wong (XG)

DjinnAndTonic · « **Reply #19 on:** November 25, 2008, 01:24:05 AM »

Dammit, I was just about to close this.

Does someone else want to vote so that Althena/Fei isn't a hatbotted tiebreak?

-Djinn

OblivionKnight · « **Reply #20 on:** November 25, 2008, 01:39:11 AM »

Althena

DjinnAndTonic · « **Reply #21 on:** November 25, 2008, 02:09:17 AM »

Godlike:
Althena/Luna (Lunar1) vs. Fei Fong Wong (XG) 4-3 (I affectionately think of this as 'the OK tiebreak')

Heavy:
Zack Fair (CCFF7) vs. Lucia (Lunar2) 2-4

Middle:
Flik (Suikos) vs. Gordon (Dis1) 9-0

Light:
Deneb (OB) vs. Genis Sage (ToS) 4-1

Yay! This season is over! Congradulations to our winners! It was an extremely close match-up between the Godlike finalists, with Althena/Luna carving out her win in overtime. Yeah, okay, so my laziness overrode my questionable ethics in this case, but at least we have a winner!

Zack and Genis put up a little bit of a fight in their respective matches, but Flik absolutely slaughtered in the finals.

Wow, Luna/Lucia Lunar double-champing... kind of ridiculous...

Anyway, I'm going on hiatus with this tournament for a while, if anyone wants to pick it up in the meanwhile, you're welcome to it - it was originally hijacked from someone else in the first place.

-Djinn

Cmdr_King · « **Reply #22 on:** November 25, 2008, 02:49:33 AM »

To Niu: *nods* Right, basically the Zohar can manipulate potential events such that whatever its controller wants to happen happens (in the XG world it's generally used to create energy/ether power though, hence 'infinite power'). My general assumption is that the WE kinda gives Fei executive access to the thing, allowing him to manipulate it at will independantly from Kadmony/Deus/etc. That said, I'd been wondering to what degree Fei himself, without Xenogears, was able to channel raw energy, and his body being significantly more limited that way makes sense.

The destroying the Zohar thing... might just be translation vagueness or poor memory on my part. I remember the WE telling Fei he needed to destroy it for the WE to be free from it.

(yeah, doesn't matter now, but it's Xenogears discussion! I likes.)

News:

Author Topic: Plot Power Tourney S5 Finals - Luna and Lucia double-champ for Lunar series? (Read 2613 times)

Bardiche

Bardiche