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Author Topic: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 19  (Read 4033 times)

Clear Tranquil

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 19
« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2009, 01:17:53 PM »
Mrmffs. So two of Bard's girls are definitely MP busted. Eileen and Eiko because there's no point MP busting Deis first so she can just drain it back and Shiho is awesmely infinite. Say Eileen's nuked on the FFT floor and Thief Rikku stops Shiho (fairly sure it's Dispel not Esuna for Stop in FFIX) so no magical duo of 2HKO from Eileen + Deis nor a duo of Deis and Shiho buffed into full power Lucian ... Thief Rikku actually has above average HP and MDEF so I'm not so sure any 2HKOs are so clear cut anymore. I also need this clarified, stat topic says BoltX is lighting elemental but irrc I vaguely remember discussion about it *not* being elemental or something. Which is it? I haven't decided on what exactly to allow the FFX-2 cast yet but garment grids are basically their armour so lightning proof/etc might catch Deis. I'm also still testing the pre-emptive rate of Initiative. With FFT Reflect Mail hype + MP busting combined w/th X-2 hype Bard still might have a spanner in his works!

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Except Valk Profile lets you Menu Cast before attacking, and Shiho's Normalise removes all possible status ailments as well. :p

That's like saying SO3 mages have initiative because they can enter the menu right away or that Peppita has initiative Power Dance because the buff's faster than attacks!  :P
« Last Edit: November 17, 2009, 03:35:01 PM by Clear Tranquil »
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Bardiche

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 19
« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2009, 02:22:30 PM »
It means Shiho can go before Lucian and heal away any ailments he has.

If Thief Rikku Stops Shiho, then Eiko drops a magical assault in with Lucian and Deis.

As for Reflect Mail Argath... his MP damage is half max MP with a 59% chance to work according to the stat topic. His 9 Speed is also below the PC cast average, but of course I don't know how much difference there'd be with floor 4 Speed and endgame Speed... but arguably Lucian goes before him. Do you respect Argath surviving a Lucian fullpower MT attack? Everyone should outspeed him, unless you don't hold him against PC speed and don't factor in Excalibur for Orlandu or whatever.
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DjinnAndTonic

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 19
« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2009, 02:57:51 PM »
Well, I could see the Shiho argument at least. Since both Lucian and Shiho are average speed and because in-game VP1 PCs all take their turns at the same time, it's definitely fair to see Shiho acting before Lucian if Bard chooses.
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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 19
« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2009, 03:47:12 PM »
Fair enough (I'd do that too w/th Peppita and a Nel/Maria dungeon duo plus other ARPG heal or support/buff characters in general though) Doesn't VP have any casting time or any difference between movement rate at all? >_> I've only played VPII and I've mostly forgot how that works <_<
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Taishyr

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 19
« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2009, 06:05:18 PM »
Nope and no casting time, just a recovery time (which isn't noticeable if you have, say, Lucian, there to give her recharge crystals via juggling).
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Bardiche

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 19
« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2009, 06:18:47 PM »
Lucian knocks those crystals out of ALL enemies, so suffice to say she's not going to care much for her non-existant cooldown. :)
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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 19
« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2009, 07:09:37 PM »
Quote from: Bardiche on November 17, 2009, 02:22:30 PM
It means Shiho can go before Lucian and heal away any ailments he has.

If Thief Rikku Stops Shiho, then Eiko drops a magical assault in with Lucian and Deis.

As for Reflect Mail Argath... his MP damage is half max MP with a 59% chance to work according to the stat topic. His 9 Speed is also below the PC cast average, but of course I don't know how much difference there'd be with floor 4 Speed and endgame Speed... but arguably Lucian goes before him. Do you respect Argath surviving a Lucian fullpower MT attack? Everyone should outspeed him, unless you don't hold him against PC speed and don't factor in Excalibur for Orlandu or whatever.

In fairness, Zmobie Algus has Dark Sword, which is a good deal more potent in terms of MP busting and doesn't share Magic Break's accuracy concerns.  Still not a big deal since, as you pointed out, everyone outspeeds him.
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SnowFire

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 19
« Reply #32 on: November 17, 2009, 11:30:31 PM »
Bardiche: Point, forgot Shiho had Normalize.  I'd certainly let her use it on Lucian first.  That means that the Balks have to Arm Aim both Shiho and Lucian out...  yeah, the odds on both getting paralyzed are not good.  But but what if just Shiho is Arm Aimed and normal Algus's NIGHT KILLA blinds Lucian?????! 

Also, Zombie Algus does get one MP drain off because Lucian's damage is being halved even if Deis2 Attack boosts him, and Argath has the Defense UP equivalent which cuts damage to 5/8 normal.  So he survives round 1 at least and MP drains someone, but so be it.
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Bardiche

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 19
« Reply #33 on: November 17, 2009, 11:46:08 PM »
Quote from: SnowFire on November 17, 2009, 11:30:31 PM
Bardiche: Point, forgot Shiho had Normalize.  I'd certainly let her use it on Lucian first.  That means that the Balks have to Arm Aim both Shiho and Lucian out...  yeah, the odds on both getting paralyzed are not good.  But but what if just Shiho is Arm Aimed and normal Algus's NIGHT KILLA blinds Lucian?????!

Now you're just reaching man. srsly.

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Also, Zombie Algus does get one MP drain off because Lucian's damage is being halved even if Deis2 Attack boosts him, and Argath has the Defense UP equivalent which cuts damage to 5/8 normal.  So he survives round 1 at least and MP drains someone, but so be it.

How much do you respect Eiko summon damage? :p
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SnowFire

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 19
« Reply #34 on: November 17, 2009, 11:57:12 PM »
Bardiche: No no I was being very serious as noted by the copious amounts of punctuation!!!!11one1!! (just like that sentence)  That case is actually genuinely bad for your team but FFT status weapon hit rates = lol.

As for Eiko her summon damage is fine but it gets reflected in your team's face to me so it seems like a bad idea....  except Eiko has Reflect: Null so never mind, that would help.  Also helpful for the last fight, especially since I think she's got Holy damage on her summons by now which annihilates Erim.  Though not sure if she has the Holy summon yet.  But it's good regardless for everyone else.  (Don't forget I already voted pass for your team!)
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Bardiche

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 19
« Reply #35 on: November 17, 2009, 11:59:12 PM »
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As for Eiko her summon damage is fine but it gets reflected in your team's face to me

You'd let something that FFT Reflect doesn't cover get reflected?

And I know you voted a pass, but arguing these sort of things is fun for me. :(
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SnowFire

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 19
« Reply #36 on: November 18, 2009, 12:07:18 AM »
I'd let it Reflect things that are Reflectable.  Very zen-like, I know.  FFT summons ignore Reflect in both FFT and against other systems, and as it happens (presuming the Reflect-Null skill is legal by Floor 4) FF9 summons also ignore reflect.  But in a system with reflectable summons, well, I'd let Reflect Mail reflect 'em.  But not unreflectable summons.  Deep.
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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 19
« Reply #37 on: November 18, 2009, 01:16:24 PM »
Dudes it's only F4  :P

Mt Gulug's F5 at least I think so Eiko still only has Fenrir and Phoenix.
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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 19
« Reply #38 on: November 20, 2009, 02:47:38 PM »
Monkey/Bard pass, abstain Sage (nina fight is migraine), I RETREAT FROM THE DUNGEON, NEVER TO RETURN (with this team)
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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 19
« Reply #39 on: November 20, 2009, 06:39:59 PM »
Vote vote vote.
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Bardiche

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 19
« Reply #40 on: November 21, 2009, 01:24:41 AM »
Going to go with fall on Sage's part. The Nina fight is pretty brutal. It's why I definitely don't want that floor.
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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 19
« Reply #41 on: November 21, 2009, 01:27:17 AM »
Yeah, Team Sage needs a bit more credit than I'm prepared to give, so they fail.
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VySaika

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 19
« Reply #42 on: November 21, 2009, 04:11:27 AM »
Team Sage Passes, but largely due to my high respect for SoM casting speed.

Team Monkey Passes as well. Mew getting to spam auto-crits on things kinda make everyone explode. Good team for this floor.

Team Bardache Passes also. Not much to say here.

Team Tai DIES HORRIBLY. Really, I'm not sure that floor as written is beatable. But eh.
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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 19
« Reply #43 on: November 21, 2009, 06:30:56 AM »
Just confirming that I'm changing my vote to pass for sage.
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