Random thought experiment: Slow/speed down on bosses in the DL

[Monkeyfinger]

Ah, slow. It exists in a sort of grayish limbo between status and stat bust, and varies widely in effectiveness. I've been thinking recently: How advantageous is it to have a very powerful speed bust?

Bear in mind I'm only talking about the kind that interferes with your ability to get turns. Things that mess with speed/agility stats that only govern shit like evade and move don't count.

So, I'm thinking: What game's bosses block it? Which explicitly don't? Which, if any, are hard to call?

Ones I remember off the top of my head:

BoF1: Idle fucks them over, they're vulnerable.
SMT games: No real slow in these, but it should almost certainly be assumed to hit them because every other stat down works on all of them.
DQ8: Depends on the boss. Empyrea's immune, others are varying degrees of resistant, IIRC.
FFT: Also varies, I believe?
FF6/7/8: Immune
Grandias: Affects all of them, though some of G3's recover from it quicker.
Lunar 1: Doesn't matter
MK: Immune, I believe
Saga: Vulnerable
SMRPG: No slow status, but you might extend Fear immunity/vulnerability to affect stat downs in general, so it depends on boss. But none of them are even ranked, so w/e.
SoA: Immune
VPs: Vulnerable by SMT clause
WA1, WA4: Vunerable

[superaielman]

PS4's immune.

[Taishyr]

Persona 2: Uh, probably immune - bosses immune status. Stat downs don't exist, so I'll go with that.
P3/4: Vulnerable to stat downs, so vulnerable to slow. General SMT clause.
BoF3/4/5: Seem to recall the Speed Down debuff not working on them, so... immune? Might be boss per boss, but.
CC: Immune.
CT: Immune.
DW4: Necrosaro I think is immune. Other bosses I think aren't.
EB: Uhh... SMT clause? Iunno here.
FF5: Boss by boss, ranked are both immune IIRC but Gilgamesh might not be.
FFT: Ditto.
LoL2: I... think both here are immune as well.

[superaielman]

DQ4 did not have a speed down skill that I can recall.

[Dark Holy Elf]

BoF5 bosses actually vary in their vulnerability to stat downs. 3's and 4's were uniformly immune I believe.

Necrosaro is most definitely not immune, nor even especially resistant.

FF bosses are usually vulnerable (except FFX), would have to check specifics. I know the only ranked FFT bosses who block Slow do so via equipment, which is just certain forms of Wiegraf and Lede I believe.


EDIT: For games that provide literally no evidence one way or the other (such as P2? Lunar for one I can vote on) I would use the tiebreak of whether the attacker's speed down hits bosses in its own game. Same way I handle, say, Delay against bosses that are from games without it (which is most games).

[Taishyr]

...wait, seriously? Huh, okay. I'll believe that. My memory blip, there, then.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Out of curiosity, how do you decrease the speed of someone in VP1?

At least in something like FE or Disgaea, you can argue that you're decreasing AS or movement... VP1 is hardest game I can think of to tiebreak for.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

You don't - in any way, really.

[Dhyerwolf]

Right, technically. You just apply whatever the practical effect is the home game the status originated from. Since say...I think EP Slow halves SPD. So does WA 4, I think (Let's just say it does if it doesn't for sake of argumentation). But obviously these wouldn't be hyped to have the same effect on other games because halving EP speed and halving WA 4 are such different things. So you just go by the home game's effect.

[DjinnAndTonic]

EP = Eternal Poison?
EP = Eternal Punishment?

The question I would have about any speed debuffs against VP1 would be how it could apply at all. Since there's nothing resembling speed to nerf...

I suppose Dhyer's idea works if you convert everything to a turn-based/ATB system.

[Dhyerwolf]

Well, if you always left all phase-based in phase-based, yes, then you could say VP was immune. On the other hand, then a game with no accuracy stat is then immune to Arnaud's Illusion even if the game has evasion!

EP=Eternal Poison. Eternal Punishment is P2.