Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 29

[DjinnAndTonic]

I see the logic, but copying characters as if they were unequipped seriously feels like an overly legalistic consistency and not in tune with the spirit of the move.  At best I'd say that's an argument for not copying accessories.  It's impossible in Pokemon for half somebody's attack stat to be from a "weapon" since everything is inherent.  The result is that Ditto would translate in a wildly unintuitive way to the DL where, even ignoring Ditto's other problems, he would automatically lose against basically all PCs (and would continue to do so if he had great HP and other starting stats). When something like that happens, I think that's a sign that something is wrong and see if there's some way the character can be interpreted more intuitively.

I'd be especially wary of doing that in the Dungeon.  I have my own wacky theories about some characters but I try and keep the strangest of them out, or at least the ones that would massively change a character's point value.  If my interp of a 4.0 character makes him a 1.0 character, well, for the purposes of the Dungeon and of being fair to the person who picked that person, use the interp that makes them at least closer to a 4.0.  It's not quite so bad with Ditto but that's still changing a 0.5 character to a 0.0 character pretty much.  (Yes, situational use against monsters / bosses /characters from games without equipment, but bad AND very specific limited use.)

Uh... being able to copy skillsets like Spell-Binding Eye, Status Lock, Red Zone, whatever... you don't think that's worth 0.5? Honestly, I'm okay with him getting stats from equipment, just because it means I don't have to remember how much equips matter in scaling, but I'm leaning towards not allowing additional equipment effects (like auto-life, status resistance, etc.) . Elemental resistance... tricky. Since that's one of Ditto's big strengths in Pokemon. I think I'd allow it. So Ditto probably does have an argument to survive a RDA. But my Ditto HP respect is so low, that I think he gets one-shotted through 50% Fire resistance.

[Yoshiken]

Not sure how much these facts'll help, but I've been testing some stuff with Ditto and can confirm:

 - He does not copy hold item effects - YMMV on the impact this has.
 - If he transforms into someone with multiple forms, he directly takes the form they're in.
(These two were tested with Ghost-form Arceus. Ditto transformed into the Ghost form, and it was immediately followed with "Ditto transformed!" and the sprite turning into Normal-type Arceus, since he didn't have the plate for it.)
 - Quick Powder's effect does not last through transformation. (Arguable)
(Tested this with my Alakazam against a Glameow. 5 Shadow Balls and a Trick each, Ditto went first for 4 of them. Could probably do with more testing on this. (Obviously stopped testing after the Trick, since that meant Ditto no longer had Quick Powder.))

[Clear Tranquil]

Thanks Yoshi.

I see. What is the Trick? >.> Also I'm not sure what you mean, did your Alakazam have the Quick Power and Ditto was in a ball or something? <.< Another question when Ditto transforms does he only copy the moves the other Pokemon has equipped and not say TMs or something they can use? (unless TMs qualify as items in which case that's already answered) Thanks =-)

[Yoshiken]

Trick swaps items, so Ditto no longer had Quick Powder after that. For the test with 'Zam, I went into a double-battle with Ditto w/Quick Powder and a MUCH faster 'Zam out.

Ditto copies all 4 moves the opponent has, regardless of TM/HM/natural/egg moves, etc.

[MC50]

I'm pretty sure that Quick Powder has no effect after he transforms. He still HAS the item, but it doesn't do anything, he just becomes the exact speed of the person he copied into. I think Metal Powder works the same way but I'm not as certain on that one.

He copies their stats directly, but not hold item effects, so I think its fair to add the stat boosts from equipment but not things like auto-haste.

[Yoshiken]

The only problem I have with copying stat boosts is that in-game buffs do not get copied with Transform, and neither do hold item damage boosts (such as Charcoal). That said, I'll probably handwave it to make things easier to work out. >_>

[Clear Tranquil]

Thanks very much peeps. All this information really helps a lot =-) Definitely good to know~

Ok I've edited my post on Uno's team a bit.

Teams Neph, Super and Uno vs dungeon.

* Clear Tranquil waves Meru flag =-)

[Talaysen]

The only problem I have with copying stat boosts is that in-game buffs do not get copied with Transform, and neither do hold item damage boosts (such as Charcoal). That said, I'll probably handwave it to make things easier to work out. >_>

Buff stat boosts are WAAAAAAAAAAY different from equipment stat boosts.

Also, direct damage boosts are different from stat boosts as well, since damage is not actually a stat.

[Yoshiken]

Ehh, that's all interp issues that I'm not even gonna touch on. YMMV on what Ditto can and can't copy, I'm just saying what happens in-game. ;o

[Dark Holy Elf]

Wait, Ditto's powders don't survive after transformation? I'm sure that's right since I'm reading the testing right in front of me, but... good lord. That takes away Ditto's last shred of use in-game (besides breeding).