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Author Topic: <Untitled IAQ Project> Round 6: Character balancing. What MvC2 ignored.  (Read 10120 times)

074

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Jin

The big guy of Yiu's entourage, and...he's a bard?  Well, definitely a case for playing against type, to say the least, but Jin is a rather unusual character.  His basic durability is pretty much the highest in Yiu's group, and he hits as hard as the physically-oriented characters on a basic.  He appears like he'd be a solid fighter...

...until you look at some of his other stats.  D-ranked Dexterity with light armor hurts, even with that VIT and HP.  Worse is his evasion--he's not dodging anything that has a chance of hitting anyone else.  On that same note, his own hitrate is utterly abysmal--the best he's getting against average is 55% with instruments.  45% with axes and hammers.  Expect him to be missing.  A lot.  It's a rather easy trap to fall into to treat him like a heavy melee unit, since he only has half the durability of one and all the power without any of the accuracy.  He's very much a support unit, and it shows.

On the plus side, he's got unrestricted limitless support use, which means that you don't have to worry about healing running out if you're willing to drag the battle on long enough.  The problem is that it, like him, starts out slow.


Onto skillset:

Instrumental Talent: Nothing really wrong with this skill.  Swaps STR and DEX with an instrument equipped.  This has little offensive benefit, mind you, since instruments have a bad DEX mod to begin with (0.8), marginally better accuracy than hammers, and ATK that's barely better than a shortsword; furthermore, his base DEX sucks ass, meaning his damage will not matter worth shit.  However, given his role as a support character, this becomes an amazingly important skill for survivability, allowing him to DEX-tank like mad and compensating for his lack of armor against light weapons.  He'll still get the shit knocked out of him by heavy weapons, but that's to be expected from his bad evasion and light armor.

Healing Harmony: One of Jin's basic skills, and probably a standby; heals himself and surrounding allies for 4% mHP, increasing by a flat 2% mHP per turn (so 4%, 6%, 8%, 10%...)  Positioning is a notable factor here, and while this is potentially powerful given enough turns, it does have the issue of being slow to start, and running off of Jin's bad speed; as well as competing with other songs for attention...

Resounding Rhythm: Like this one.  4% speed boost, plus 2% per turn.  Speed is powerful in this system, notably, and it shows here.  Unfortunately for poor Jin here, as with all percentile speed boosts, this one's effectiveness is based on the initial speed of the recipient.  The higher the speed to begin with, the bigger the boost; and Jin's speed is tied with Rafael's for second-last.  Can't really benefit himself too much with it, but giving Meilin and Xun a boost can't hurt (especially with Xun's summons.)  Might stand to be a bit stronger, but I'll see how useful this will be for now.  Really comes into use if he's put into a party with one of the speedsters (Ilona, Claire, Katarine, Selena), though.

Dissonant Dirge: This is weird.  It's a song that deals HP damage to all enemies, triggered on Jin's turn.  His speed aside, I'm thinking this is reasonably accurate (130-135 MACC range?) just to counterbalance the fact that he has no other reliable source of damage at all.  Though due to this, its currently nontyped nature, its AoE nature, and how he can still smash people while singing, it shouldn't be very high power to start.  Thinking base power = 200, increment value 50, though if that goes up too slow it could be increment value 75 or 100.  Given how his speed goes, it might be decent to consider the latter option.

Proposed Technique: [Unnamed Song 1]:  My first of the additions fo Jin's songs, and arguably one of the more useful ones for him.  Not sure what order these will be learned in, so I'm just listing them as they come up mentally.  Don't mind the lack of name; I can't do the goofy alliteration thing.  Anyway, this song boosts accuracy for Jin and allies in adjacent hexes, resulting in a boost of (6+3 per count) to hit-rate.  Furthermore, it boosts critical rate for them as well, albeit at a smaller rate of 3+1 per count.  Might be the last one learned, what with it managing to fix Jin's biggest problem.

Proposed Technique: [Unnamed Song 2]:  Next is a song that boosts DEF and MDEF.  This being rather powerful, functionally (again, consider the effect on heavy and antimage armor in particular), it can afford to be small.  4% + 2% per count.

Proposed Technique: [Unnamed Song 3]:  A song that boosts counter rate.  Nonzero counter rates under this gain a bonus of, again, 4+2 per count.  A subtle boost, but one that starts showing after a couple of rounds.

Proposed Final Technique: [Unnamed]: So sue me, I'm bad with musical terms.  I'm a Computer Science major, not a Music major.  Anyway, this would result in doubling all currently active Song effects from Jin...at the cost of them ending on either the end of the relevant PC's next turn or Jin's next turn, whichever comes sooner.  This might be either OPB or run on a cooldown, to prevent abuse.  Has a bigger payoff the more he's kept buffs running, but then he'd have to start all over again.  I figured this would be a halfway neat capstone ability for him, though I could just make one more song instead.
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.

Dark Holy Elf

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Something to keep in mind with Jin, it was talked about that he might take over some of Meilin's old healing moves. They don't really clash with his songs too much anyway, but worth keeping in mind. (Also this should probably be formally decided one way or another.)

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

DjinnAndTonic

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I'm in favor of giving Meilin's healing abilities over to Jin, though they will have to be renamed/tailored to his resource system.

Think you could come up with something for this, Nama?

I don't think his final skill needs to be OPB or run on a cooldown. It seems like ending the buff effect immediately afterward is enough of a penalty. It also could be AoE instead of full-field if you're really worried about it being overpowered.

Buffing Acc, Crit, and Counter rates are a really neat niche and directly buffing DEF/MDEF is nice and potent. It really gives him a different niche from the other buffers, and at endgame (with the crit/acc buff), he's actually quite a competent Melee option (especially if you're anal like me and love PCs that have unlimited resources).


074

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I'm admittedly not in favor of giving Meilin's healing abilities over to Jin, for a couple of reasons.  It could be done (I'd still go for a cooldown on those regardless), but there's a couple of other reasons I oppose this.

1: I originally put them on Meilin partially because, frankly, I wanted to not make her so one-dimensional in a way that didn't involve weapon switching (which is a pain to begin with).  The problem with Focus-gauge characters is that all their skills usually go along one line (Claire's another exception, but I say this could be a good distinction for those with Focus who don't have Shrouds--they trade that off for a bit more variety), and does anyone really weapon-switch outside of a FE game to begin with?

2: I am deliberately attempting to avoid 'lynchpin support' syndrome in Yiu's group; It's notable that each group has at least one distinct 'vulnerable' member in some way that shutting down would hamper the party to some degree (Noemi's group averts this by having two revivers, of all things.  Isolde's group has Katarine[though she lacks revival, her support helps the blitzing power and minimizes damage when properly used], and Mirek's group has Eirwen, with Claire as a status healer).  Best way to do this?  Spread the support around.  And frankly, is it wrong to have one more character with a couple of healing abilities?
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.

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Flavor-wise, Meilin shouldn't have healing spells. You can give them to one of Xun's pets if you'd prefer, but status healing and revival are really fitting with Jin. Also, Fahim has some of that stuff too, so it's not like taking it off of Meilin makes Yiu's group into 'only one person has any support stuff!'. If anything, it actually balances Yiu's group with the other groups a bit better since as is, Meilin, Fahim, Jin, Yiu, and Xun can all do healing of some type. >.>;;

074

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Flavorwise, I didn't imagine them as spells as much as 'field treatment'.   The point about variety and weapon switching still stands, though.

[EDIT]That aside, I am willing to compromise; Give her something else that adds variety without requiring weapon switching, and I'll be fine.  Even if I'm still not a fan of it being on Jin specifically
« Last Edit: June 12, 2010, 02:43:07 PM by Namagomi »
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.

074

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Aurel

Aurel's stats fit what most imagine of a typical 'knight' type of character.  Decent power, amazing defenses, he exists more to take damage than avoid it--which is good, because he can't dodge worth crap; his pEVA goes into the negatives when he's in any armor heavier than light, and his mEVA leaves him as statusbait.  A mix of C DEX and B STR gives him decent combative ability, while he manages to be among the most physically durable thanks to his A HP, S VIT, and ability to equip heavy armor.  His potential seems like it'd be more desirable on Mirek's side of the matter, as he is on Noemi's team, but it's arguable that this makes her side the clear 'easiest' to go through to start (Again, the LEAST durable person on her team there is Kasia.  Noemi isn't bad on her end and can DEXtank, Shao's generally good on both fronts IIRC, and Erastus is surprisingly tanky for a mage).  However, as is usual, PC tanks have the problem of being often ignored in favor of the much squishier everyone else.  As such, the usual answer is to make said tank able to draw attention and attacks away from the other party members.

Damage ranges are deceptive here, as Aurel does not survive to endgame.  None of these values beat average DEX, thus will assume single hit:
Physical, Hammer:273->546, 65% accuracy, 6% Critical, 5% Counter
Physical, Great Axe:234->468, 65% accuracy, 24% Critical, 5% Counter
Physical, Greatsword:218->436, 70% accuracy, 9% Critical, 10% Counter
Physical, Spear:156->312, 75% accuracy, 18% Critical, 25% Counter
Physical, Shortspear:140->280, 80% accuracy, 18% Critical, 25% Counter
Physical, Javelin:140->280, 75% accuracy, 12% Critical, 0% Counter, range 3

While he has a wide selection of weapons, it's notable that his accuracy barely beats average, and it shows.  Hammers, as for everyone who has them, are the heavy offense weapon for him, though he might prefer Great Axes instead.  Greatswords once again fall into a novelty class by comparison, but that's to be expected for this weapon category (to compensate, we perhaps need more 'special' weapons in this class once we get to equips).  Spears and shortspears are for the evasive and for counter rate, while javelins give him a ranged option which may prove to be useful if he is stuck unable to attack (or unable to attack without massive risks).

However, attacking isn't his forte to begin with, for obvious reasons that his skillset will show.  Armor-based learning is...awkward, I think.  It's doable, but it -is- awkward, since it forces him to give up one of his big advantages and is otherwise counterintuitive unless we do something along the lines of staggering the availability of armor for Noemi's group.

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Master of his Body: Aurel regens 10% of his HP at the start of his turn. Resonance. Starting skill.

10% HP regeneration on top of his defenses is huge.  Flavor insists that this would be a starting passive for him, at the very least.

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Never Say Die: Aurel's Vit and Spi increase significantly while he is below 50% health. Dissonance. Active with a Medium Armor equipped, learned after 15 battles.
 

Okay, as amusing as his raw tankiness after this would be, no.  We don't need him to be even less killable, what with him already having Meiling-grade durability.  Andy has suggested a minor STR boost instead, which lends itself to making a bit more sense and not making him literally impossible to kill without status.  (If you're thinking Kasia has no other way only because of this, just consider the majority of her damage output)

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Refuse to Fall: Aurel has a 25% chance of surviving a fatal attack with 1 HP remaining. Dissonance. Active with a Heavy Armor equipped, learned after 30 battles.

25% Guts activation rate.  I'm a bit opposed to this working on actual ID, but fine with it working on damage.  Not too much of an issue here that I can think of.

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Trained Bodyguard: Aurel has a 25% chance of intercepting an attack directed at an ally in his hex. Dissonance. Active with a Light Armor equipped, learned after 30 battles.

Blocker.  And, I argue, possibly one of the core, if not the core skill to his tankiness actually -working-.  Light armor is something counterintuitive for him, so unless heavier armor isn't readily available, he'd have problems.  In fact, I think this should be a starting skill for him, given how outright important it is for his tankiness to actually matter.  It's tempting to add a corollary that if he defends, this rate doubles to 50% interception or the like while he continues to defend.  Regardless, an important ability, one that he should start with if he doesn't gain it extremely early.

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Brief Resurgence: When hit with an attack that would deal MP damage, all of Aurel's currently ready skills are not usable next turn, as if sent into a 1-turn recharge state. Starting skill.

Standard MP damage corollary to cooldowns.

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Bolster: Recover a moderate amount of HP, but cancels his regen for several turns. 1-turn cooldown. Dissonance. Useable with a Light Armor equipped, learned after 10 battles.

3-turn regen cancellation for active self-healing.  Not really much I see wrong here.  Next.

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Return From the Brink: Recover 100% of his HP, but takes significant penalties to his stats, decreasing all stats 33% for 4 turns. 3-turn cooldown. Dissonance. Useable with a Medium Armor equipped, learned after 25 battles.

This is his emergency healing, and it takes the everliving fuck out of him.  Really, if he's alone and he has to use this, he's just plain screwed, though that plus some repositioning could save him in that battle.  I don't mind it at all.

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The Iron Wall of the Empire: Aurel takes 0 damage from physical and magical damage for a short time, but his Vit and Spi are dropped to G levels for 4 turns afterwards. 3-turn cooldown. Dissonance. Useable with a Heavy Armor equipped, learned after 45 battles.

One of a scant few invincibility abilities, and probably the first one in the game.  I'm thinking a duration of either "half turn" or "until next turn", for which he's just plain impossible to hurt by damage.  I'm tempted to say that this should auto-activate covering, since it's just a fancy way to survive a single attack otherwise and has a massive penalty.  The drop needs to be in terms of a numerical value at this point, not letter ranks, and I'll suggest a flat 50% or so drop to VIT and SPR.  That should suffice.

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Reckless Strike: Moderate damage, but increases the damage he takes until his next turn. 1-turn cooldown. Dissonance. Useable with a Light Armor equipped, learned after 20 battles.

Hm.  The name and description imply that it leaves his defenses open.  I think I'm going to instead argue that this inflicts 100% immunity-ignoring Misfortune on himself until the end of his next turn--he overextends himself like hell and not only leaves his defenses open, but is in a position where he really can't mount an effective counterattack.  That should probably be sufficient penalty for this.

As for the damage mod, I'm considering a simple 1.5x damage boost.  His base damage isn't exactly awesome to begin with, and he's not really meant to be a powerhouse.  At the same time, the short cooldown makes it relatively spammable.
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.

074

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Ilona

Ilona's pretty much the FE Thief/Assassin of the game, and it shows.  She's pretty much the fastest and most physically evasive character in the game, bar none--and she's no slouch on the end of magic evasion either.  Good thing, too, since her defenses are straight-out abysmal; cast-worst PDUR, and tied for second-worst MDUR, light armor only.  Needless to say that she doesn't like mages to begin with, despises anything accurate, and dies upon being looked at by ITE.  On the offensive side, her Accuracy is solid, and her Dexterity is, once again, cast-best, boosted further thanks to her weapon selection.  Her Intelligence (A-rated), incidentally, doesn't really help her at all, while she's once again hurt by her -low- Strength--tying with Eirwen and only better than Faron (who has no reason to be physically attacking, ever).  She's in an odd case where she exists to kill low-VIT low-DEX enemies, with some tricks for the types who are more physically sound.

Values are against average defenses.

Physical, Knife: 145 over 7 hits->290 over 7 hits.  155% accuracy, 3% critical rate, 40% counter rate on evade
Physical, Dagger: 112 over 6 hits -> 224 over 6 hits.  155% accuracy, 15% critical rate, 60% counter rate on evade.
Physical, Guardian Blade: 134 over 4 hits->268 over 4 hits.  150% accuracy, 9% critical rate, 30% counter rate on evade.
Physical, Scythe: 111 over 2 hits->222 over 2 hits.  125% accuracy, 12% critical rate, 20% counter rate on evade.

She is, far more than any other character, intolerant to increases in DEF and VIT, and tolerant to decreases of such, with her basic physical.  Criticals are likewise big for her--she gets more out of defense-halving than damage-doubling for certain, and she's unlikely to have trouble hitting enemies as she is just doing notable damage.

Equally notable is her Focus gauge: Starts at 10%, increases by 5% for every basic physical executed, plus an extra 1% for each extra hit launched.  +2% focus for each attack evaded.  Speed, Dexterity, and Evasion increase by 1% for every 20% focus (and thus at full Focus, she's a bit faster and dodgier than normal, not that she arguably needs it)

Anyway, onto techs.  As she is a Guardian, it's natural that she has an assload of passives.

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Shadow Stance: If Ilona doesn't move, grants an extra 50% chance to evade any attacks sent her way Goes away if she moves or is successfully attacked.

Basically, free Double Image when she doesn't move.  I'm admittedly a bit iffy on this already, since she's -damned- hard to hit already (40% hitrate with average physical accuracy, 65% with average magic accuracy.)  On the other hand...she does pretty much die horribly when getting hit.  I'm on the fence about this, though it makes it rather easy to negate her evasion by forcing her to move and Isolde's group lacks forced-movement skills.  This is much more a skill for defense than offense.

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Fleeting Feet: If Ilona uses a basic physical or evades a physical attack, speed is increased by 10% until next turn. Stacks with itself, but wears off completely after the next turn.

Rapid Attack with a twist.  I'm going to say, since it's not made clear, that the 10% is based off of her base speed, not the modified speed (so that it'd be 100, 110, 120, 130... rather than 100, 110, 121, 133, 146...).  Half-tempted to say that counterattacks don't count, though if the intent was such that she'd gain 20% off of an evade into counter...eh.

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Unrelenting Momentum: Each of Ilona's hits after the first in an attack gain a bonus to damage, starting from 10% and increasing by 10% each time.

Tal, I hate you.  You made me have to recalculate every single goddamned basic attack damage value again and have -doubled- my time working on those.  I hope you're happy.  Bastard.

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Opportunity: If Ilona evades an attack, she has double the chance of countering it. If Ilona does not evade the attack, she cannot counter it.

Given how often she'll be dodging attacks, that'll lead to a functional doubling of counter rate.  At this point I'm against letting counterattacks count for Focus gain or Fleeting Feet.

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Illusion Dance (10%): Normal physical that causes confusion.

Still needs revising.  Confusion doesn't exist, Charm would be too powerful, and we have enough people who use Delay on Isolde's team as-is.  I'm halfway thinking Paralysis, but that too doesn't work so well.  Possibly an Evade debuff?

Quote
Target (20%): Normal physical + locks on to an enemy. If an ally attacks the enemy, Ilona will immediately attack it with a basic physical. She cannot evade or counter any other enemies' attacks. Wears off if the target moves out of melee range, Ilona is successfully attacked by an enemy, or Ilona acts on someone other than herself or the targetted enemy.

This is a deceptively good skill, and probably something she intends to use against single targets.  This not only increases her damage against said single target by the number and rate of people attacking the enemy, but also increases her focus gain rate like crazy.  Of course...an enemy that could get away from her in one move (either through moving through/away from her, or moving her away) will negate this trick.  The mobile will negate this from her before there's a -really- good chance.  Utter suicide to use against groups as well.  Doesn't look too bad.

Quote
Backstab (30%): Adds half of Speed to Strength for damage and auto-crits, but only hits once regardless of Dexterity difference. Has a chance to instantly kill the target. If a knife/dagger is equipped, ignores defense and lowers target's Strength, Vitality, Dexterity, and Speed by 5%.

This, IIRC, is the big skill that's created so much debate about her.  30% focus for a single, big hit, with bonuses if she's using a knife or dagger.  The damage works as such based on weapon:
Knife: 422->844.  ITD.
Dagger: 409->818.  ITD.
Guardian Blade: 264->528
Scythe: 396->792

Key word here: Not For Use With Sword.  That aside, a sizeable chunk of damage, and for the most part cements her as a knife-user.  ...except when she's up against something with low defense (in the case of Guardian Blades, less than 24 at start, 48 at end.  With Scythes, less than 54, 108 at end).  Synergizes with speed buffing as well as typical offense buffing.  The chance of ID, I'd think would be small (10% to 15% or so?  It's not the star of this move, given the heavily boosted damage).  I'd argue that the stat-drops on knives are so small as to be negligible, honestly, so if you really want them on there, I don't see too much of an issue.

Quote
Flurry Rush (50%): Normal physical at 2.5x Dexterity. If a guardian blade is equipped, this increases to 3x and Ilona's speed is doubled until next turn.

Okay.  This...is going to give me a headache thanks to Unrelenting Momentum.  Once again, this will have to be looked at on a weapon-by-weapon basis.  (Sidenote: Tal, I hate you, this number of hits is a pain in the ass to calculate mentally)

Knife:619->1238 over 21 hits.
Dagger:528->1056 over 20 hits.
Guardian Blade:823->1646 over 18 hits, Halves time until next turn
Scythe: 424->849 over 8 hits

Due to critical rate, these values are on the low side.  And honestly?  Remove the bonus DEX for Guardian Blades.  Yes, I know they get shafted on Backstab.  Quick Hit's a powerful enough effect to start with, honestly.


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Enlightened State (100%): Increases counter/critical rate to 100%, doubles evasion and speed, adds 2% to the focus meter each turn. Ilona immediately gets two more actions.

Okay.  This is a somewhat complex effect, so I guess I'll have to look at each portion separately.  Most notably, there's no duration listed, but it's presumable that it lasts for the whole battle.  If it weren't for the fact that she's NOT seeing 100% Focus outside of excessively long fights or intervention from Eirwen or Claire, I'd say "screw that shit."  As it is, it's almost never coming out, so I'll let that deal slide.

Quote
Increases counter/critical rate to 100%
Change it to doubling, I'd be fine.  I'm iffy about it being 100%.

Quote
doubles evasion and speed
I'll let it slide that this move was made before the stats came out.  As it stands, she's only hittable by ITE and magic.  I'm saying -no- to the evasion boost.  Also, speed doubling results in not only the predictable effects, but also Backstab damage going up.  1.5x seems like it'd be a solid boost for speed?  I'm opposed to Evade going up on the basis that she already has cast-best evade AND halves final hit-rates while standing still.

Quote
adds 2% to the focus meter each turn
Sure, why not.

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Ilona immediately gets two more actions
Don't mind too much here either.
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.

DjinnAndTonic

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Mirek
Stats

HP: 770/1540 (C-)
MP: n/a
Strength: 102/204 (A+)
Dexterity: 103/206 (S)
Vitality: 42/84 (F)
Intelligence: 46/91 (D)
Spirit: 75/150 (A-)
Speed: 36/72 (G)


Accuracy: 70% (A)
Evasion: 70% (A)
Magic Evasion: 20% (D-)
Move: 2

Equipment Options
Weapons - Guardian Blades
Armor - Light
Accessories - Light, Male, Guardian


Mirek is a Guardian. His skills are a microlevel version of the Unified Flow Cycle, channeled by the Focus Meter. Starts at 25% and increases by 10% every turn. Also increases by 5% whenever Mirek or an ally in his hex takes damage.

10% per turn is quite low when his cheapest ability is 15% and his speed is loltastic. However, the 5% Focus building off of damage is pretty good, especially since you should be playing him as a damage sponge due to his 100% counter rate anyway.


Skills
Passive

Guardian's Strike: Mirek can only swing once, but his damage is increased by 1.25x.
-Pretty deadly in some ways. He ruins any bosses we have that built on DEX-tanking. Well, assuming he can hit them. He's so slow that might be a bit of a feat in the first place.

Guardian's Swiftness: Mirek automatically goes first at the start of combat.
-This is really important to making him useful at all. He'll probably want to use it to position himself in front of people 9 times out of 10, just to start his counter game.

Guardian's Fury: Mirek's Guardian's Strike bonus increases by .05x for each 20% focus he has, capping at 1.5x. At 100% Focus, Mirek's attacks ignore Defense.
His main feature. He gets up to 100% and then smashes. Endgame physical damage against average is 1224 at 100% (ITD).
516 at 0%
591 at 80%


Guardian's Revenge: Mirek counters any physical attack from within his range 100% of the time with a 75%-damage basic attack.
This is kind of what makes his charging up come together as a very competent group player. He can actually get some damage in despite the speed thanks to his counters.
382.5 at 0% Focus
444 at 80% Focus
918 at 100% Focus (ITD)


Guardian's Shroud: Mirek reduces all effects from Dissonant and Disquiet sources by 10% (this effect increases as he levels, capping out at about 25%). All allies sharing a hex with him receive half the effect.
Mostly plot power at the moment, but this should eventually be used to play around with our Field Effect system when that gets worked out.

Active
Frustration: (15%) Physical with enhanced crit rate.
Guardian Blades have a mere 9% Crit Rate. I would suggest that this has an above-average crit activation rate, since otherwise it's just a physical and it would lower the damage of his next attack for no increase in damage here. I think 80% sounds good. I think this stacks with Mirek's 100% ITD effect, and clearly would be a great damage boost at the top. Easy to refill, too. That might make it too good since Crits are double final damage. Assuming the Critical hits:
1020 at 0%
1183 at 80%
2448 at 100% (ITD)


Peace: (25%) High damage attack that ignores resistances.
It costs more than Frustration, but it has a 100% activation rate at least. Still subject to evade, so it's not a huge leap just in function. Especially since there's only one resistance type involved (Slashing) due to Mirek only using Guardian Blades. Needs a higher multiplier than a Crit to make it worth the extra 10% Focus. 2.5x is too high, but 2.25x and more reliable than Frustration makes a worthwhile move, I'd think.
1147 at 0%
1331 at 80%
2754 at 100% (ITD)


Hatred: (50%) Instant Death if the attack hits (Accuracy = Focus).
Straightforward, and not nearly as awesome as any of his other moves unless his opponent is immune to physicals or something.

Despair: (30%) Mirek preemptively counters any attacks against him from an adjacent hex for the next five rounds, and decreases the accuracy of that attack. Stacks with Guardian's Revenge.
Love: (75%) As per Despair, but applies to anyone sharing his hex.
Does this mean he double-counters for five rounds? It reads like it does. I'm going to assume that GR's 75% damage mult applies to both counters, or this is insane. Damage is including 2 hits if someone attack Mirek in his range:
765 at 0% Focus
888 at 80% Focus
1836 at 100% Focus (ITD)


Catharsis: (0%) Disables Guardian's Shroud and Mirek can no longer gain Focus while this attack is active. Mirek's stats increase by 5% and he deals Dissonant damage to all characters in his hex or nearby hexes at the start of their turn. Mirek's attacks deal extra Dissonant damage.
How long does it last? This is basically Mirek's only method of dealing pseudo-magical damage. So I'm assuming his physicals hit Magic Resistance, which isn't bad. This needs an actual magic power formula. Not really sure what seems appropriate. Any ideas?


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Random scattered notes. Sorry I haven't had much time for indepth analysis lately.

Mirek (active skillz)

-Frustration is problematic. If Mirek is hit once between his adjacent turns, he gains ongoing 2448 damage every turn due to getting enough focus back to use this every turn. lolwhat. Either this needs a focus cost increase, a way to be less broken at 100 focus, or just be not as good (e.g. only a 50% crit rate). A couple ways to make it less broken at 100 focus are to change it to "attack ignores half enemy's def", or just make the def-ignoring property of Guardian's Fury only apply to basic physicals. Peace has similar issues.

What I was thinking of was doing this.

Peace (20% focus): Attack that ignores half enemy's Def and slashing resistance, -20 hit (remember, Mirek is very accurate at base). Does ~800 endgame, depending on current focus. Note that this one doesn't benefit from the ITD property any more than a basic physical would, so we sidestep the broke at 100 focus here. It's quite a power move, especially since it mocks enemy defenses so well, though is a little more vulnerable to evade to compensate.

Frustration (40% focus): Attack at 1.5x STR that has a 50% chance to be a critical hit. For the gambling man, as an attack named frustration should be. Randomly 836/1672 (1254 average) as soon as it's available, but at 100 focus it -does- go psycho, and pretty much acts similarly to Meilin's 100-focus "someone's gonna die now" moves. Randomly 1836 (already really good...) or 3672 (zomg), averages 2454. And Mirek can get back to 100 focus and use this again much faster than Meilin can despite the speed, although the unreliability holds it in check. A little. Maybe. Given some of the buffers in the party, may need to watch out a bit here...

Hatred: Works wonderfully.

Love: Countering twice bugs me a bit. I'd say just move the counter to pre-emptive and double its damage (to 150%), which ends up with exactly the same numbers Djinn had but is more elegant. Also, since this was never quantified: "If the counter hits, accuracy of incoming attack is reduced by 40."

Despair: As above, but doesn't get the damage boost, so the counters are still 75%. It's got a much lower cost than Love, so it losing both damage and ally protection makes sense.

Awesome buffs, they give Mirek something to go for besides loldamage.

Catharsis: Needs a look, but I'm getting sleepy.


other things I mentioned in chat tonight

I'm a bit concerned about Rafael's Ruination, particularly combined with the "one big shot of awesome" Mirek can build up to. Buff from Eirwen, Frustration at 100 focus... etc. We can fix this by totally redesigning Eirwen but even then the problem is kinda temporary: Isolde, Meilin, and to a lesser degree Ilona also have ridiculous single attacks (Oversurged and 100 focus techs) which get buffed to hell by this. A general nerf to Ruination could work, but someone else may hopefully have a better idea.

Claire's Firemelon is currently useless as hell. I understand why it was nerfed, but as is it has no reason to be used ever besides some esoteric counter avoiding. 2x self-only damage buffs are useless when they also double costs; this is why Energy Charge and Power Charge and so on are more than 2x. Not sure what fix I recommend at the moment, but it's something to keep in mind.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2010, 08:47:51 AM by Dark Holy Elf »

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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project> Round 6: Character balancing. What MvC2 ignored.
« Reply #60 on: October 09, 2010, 06:37:43 PM »
Hey guys, I'm baaaaaaack~

And starting things off with a massive changeup of one of the most complicated PCs here--too needlessly complicated, in fact.


Rafael

Rafael is...especially at first glance, surprisingly durable.  Doubly so when you consider he's a mage.  Cast-best HP, above-average VIT, and medium armor ensure he's anything but squishy to begin with, even given his terrible evasion.  He's clearly a mage, though, given his subpar strength, bad Dexterity, and outright terrible speed.  However, the fact is that he kicks his son's ass as far as raw durability goes, heavy armor aside.  Resistant to status, though.   That aside, he falters a bit on the magical durability, though thanks to his high HP, manages to do above-average on that front.  At first glance, anyway; his spells have the notable drawback of being cast from his HP--and getting half-benefit from healing.

Damage ranges:
Mace: 129 -> 259, 60% accuracy, 3% critrate
Axe: 113 -> 226, 60% accuracy, 21% critrate
Staff: 102 -> 205, 65% accuracy, 3% critrate.  Boosts magic accuracy.
Shield: 91 -> 183, 50% accuracy, 3% critrate.  Boosts evasion.

synopsis of physicals: Mage alert.

Magic damage vs. average: (29+MATK)*1.483 -> (58+MATK)*1.483


Anyway, onto the actual skills here.

Passive: Nullification
- Reduces status hitrates by 50% and halves healing received.  This skill is intended to be a bit of a downside (making it hard to let him spam with healing backup), though the upside does feel a bit too weak.  Tempted to let this extend to ID and stat-downs as well, just to increase its usability.

Now, as for the big set, while I was loathe to admit it before, his skillset can use a LOT of pruning.  As such, I'm removing a lot of the inverted sigil combinations:

Quote
1B: Obfuscation [Code DC] (15% mHP):As above--slower chargetime, but more accurate
1D: Obfuscation [Code DN] (27% mHP):Slower than Code DC, but perfect hitrate.
2B: Destruction [Code SC] (18% mHP): Slightly weaker than the Code CS version, but is now Hex-target. Even slower to charge.
2D: Destruction [Code SN] (35% mHP): Radius-1 hex burst AoE. Lower damage, but still fast.
4B: Degeneration [Code EC] (13% mHP):As above, only slower and more accurate.
4D: Degeneration [Code EN] (27% mHP): Slower than Code EC, but perfect hitrate
5B: Assimilation [Code SD] (7% mHP): Deals moderate ST darkness damage, absorbs 1/4 of the damage dealt as health. Slower chargetime.
6B: Corruption [Code AD] (20% mHP): As above, only hex-target and less accurate.
7B: Reciprocation [Code ED] (20% mHP): As above, only slower and more accurate.
8B: Aggravation [Code AS] (23% mHP): As above, but shorter chargetime and lower accuracy.
9B: Fragmentation [Code ES] (18% mHP): As above, but at a lower base damage, longer charge time, and Hex-targetting.
10B: Execution [Code EA] (28% mHP): Chance of instant death to all targets on a hex. Lower accuracy.

All of these are being removed for the sake of cleaning up the movelist.  NEB would be proud.


Onto the actual moveset, now that that ugly mess has been cleared up somewhat.

Quote
1A: Obfuscation [Code CD] (13% mHP):Adds Confuse and Berserk to all targets in a hex.
Okay.  In retrospect, the cost feels a bit too high.  Drop that down to 8%.  Furthermore, Confuse does not exist as-is, and Berserk is a lot more beneficial than it is in most games--usually.  In this case, however, just replace Confuse with Blind, and voila.  Accuracy problems that cause resource problems.  Useful in a lot of cases.  Thinking accuracy is somewhere between 100 and 110.

Quote
1C: Obfuscation [Code ND] (23% mHP):Greatly reduced chargetime.
Drop the cost to about 15%.  Rather than make it the fast version, instead make it a radius-1 hex burst.  Rafael's lack of crowd-control's a big weakness for a lot of the game, so I figure the Nihil sigil should generally cover holes in his set (somewhat). So, wide-area blind/berserk.  Awesome against the right targets.  Make it less accurate, though. 90 should be solid given the sheer area this hits.

Quote
2A: Destruction [Code CS] (15% mHP): Fairly heavy ST Darkness damage. Slow to charge.
First off, change element to Disquiet, obviously.

This...is a bit tricky formula-wise.  I did intend Rafael's magic to remain useful throughout the game, and that does include his damage magic.  Formula-wise, it's a biiiit tricky to manage, since it'd either make him a Jeigan or have this spell be phased out later, but I think I've finally figured out something.  Oh, and drop the cost to 10%.

Modified formula for this spell:  (INT+MATK+2*(HP spent)-MDEF)*(INT/SPR).  This, plus a base MATK of 100, results in a starting damage of 464 at Level 1, and 833 at Level 50.  It sounds high, but given how slow he is, and particularly the fact that this is Disquiet-element (and thus resisted and blocked by a TON of things).  It can afford to be strong.  Accuracy 120.

Quote
2C: Destruction [Code NS] (27% mHP): Comparable power to Code CS, now with a fast chargetime.
Drop the cost to 20%, remove the speed change, have it be hex target, and change the formula to  (INT+MATK+(HP spent)-MDEF)*(INT/SPR).  Keep MATK at 100, and voila, instant variation.  AoE can be changed to something else if desired.

Quote
3A: Ruination [Code CA] (12% mHP):The next three instances of damage on the target are multiplied by 1.5x after all considerations (also including field effects, poison, et cetera)
This has been a giant pain in the ass to try and balance for the longest time.  After all, he already has so much variety, that it's hard to really do stuff here.  Then I had a thought: "What shuts Rafael down more than anything else?  MEVA and Disquiet Resist!".

As such, this is changed to a MEVA-reducing spell, and the Ruination series is changed into a set of stat debuffs.  Possibly the only one in the game.  Reduces target's MEVA by a flat 30%.  Stackable.  Perfect accuracy.

Quote
3B: Ruination [Code AC] (18% mHP):The next two instances of damage are multiplied by 2x.
Drop cost to 12%.  This now instead lowers the target's SPR by 30%.  Accuracy 120.

Quote
3C: Ruination [Code NA] (20% mHP):The next three instances of damage on the target are multiplied by 1.75x.
Drop cost to 12%.  This now instead lowers the target's MDEF by 30%.  Accuracy 120.

Quote
3D: Ruination [Code AN] (25% mHP):The next instance of damage is multiplied by 3x.
Drop cost to 15%.  Instead of its effect, if the target has any form of Disquiet resist/immunity/absorption, it is returned to neutral affinity.

Quote
4A: Degeneration [Code CE] (13% mHP):Adds Poison and Healblock to a 1-hex-burst radius
This is the first case of crowd control Rafael gets.  This is a rather wide-area status that is probably more useful for the wide-area healblock.  Not really much I can see worth changing here.  Accuracy 90 to compensate for the effectiveness and area.

Quote
4C: Degeneration [Code NE] (23% mHP): Much faster as to be near-instant.
Hrm.  This one's hard to figure out something for, really.  Ideas would be nice here.

Quote
5A: Assimilation [Code DS] (5% mHP): Deals low ST darkness damage, absorbs half the damage dealt as health.
Next attack spell here.  Meant to be lower damage but parasitic healing.  Going with the same formula as Destruction, with MATK 75.  Switch damage to Disquiet (again), Damage is 304 -> 496.  Healing would be 152->248, but...hm.  Might just let this be a 1:1 drain ratio and have it be a special case that ignores the heal-halving.  Gives him some self-sufficiency for magic at least.  Accuracy 120.

Quote
6A: Corruption [Code DA] (18% mHP): Reverses the effects of healing spells for the single target for one round--any healing effects cast or received now do damage.
Healing inversion.  Always felt like a nasty trick to me, and a fun one to be able to use.  Situational, but could be spoilerific and used as an underhanded and fun way to mess up some fights.  Cut the cost down to 10%, though.  Accuracy 120.

Quote
7A: Reciprocation [Code DE] (18% mHP): Adds Backlash (take damage equivalent to damage dealt) effect to target. ST.
This...is another situational, but useful status spell.  If it hits the target, and they're the type that is big on MT or damage output, they can find themselves eating really high damage, fast.  Deceptively powerful.  I'd say for the sake of simplicity, cost can go to 15%.  Accuracy 110.

Quote
8A: Aggravation [Code SA] (18% mHP): Deals ST nontyped damage to the target equal to (tmHP-tcHP). Typically does not affect bosses. Long chargetime.
Pain Doubler!  Without the stupid 666 damage cap.  Another situational spell (as with a lot of his stuff), but it can be used as a limit bypass against difficult normal enemies, and bosses will most usually have an immunity flag.  Damage is nontyped for obvious reasons.  Cost to 15%.  Accuracy 110.

Quote
9A: Fragmentation [Code SE] (15% mHP): Deals heavy ST nontyped damage with a multiplier based on the number of buffs (status and stat-boosting) the target has. Multiplier starts at 0x for unaffected targets. Ignores reflect. Targets unboosted magic defense/SPR.
This is yet another situational spell (Rafael...has a lot, yeah.  That's what happens when you have status mages).  Spoils buffers and their beneficiaries, via doing more damage for more buffs.  Yay damage!

Formula will be x*(INT+MATK-MDEF)*(INT/SPR), where x = number of individual buffs on the target at once, starting at zero, going with Spell Power 300.  This would result in 487x -> 530x.  Anyone who uses/has a lot of buffs will suffer horribly (Hi Janus!).  Accuracy 150.

Quote
10A: Execution [Code AE] (20% mHP): Chance of instant death to a target.
Straightforward.  It's single-target instant death.  Accuracy 110, perhaps?  Maybe 120 given the cost.  Adding a flavor caveat: Does not hit anyone immune or absorbent to Disquiet.

Quote
11: Annihilation [Code CN] (0% mHP): Drops Rafael's HP to 1 in order to deliver nontyped magic damage to a single target. Has no base HP cost, but is OPB. Damage based on current HP. Does 0 if cast from 1 HP.
Yeah, it's Sacrifice.  And pretty much his nuke.  Power = cHP.

Level 1: 1539 at max, linearly decreases to 0 at 1 HP.  Level 50: 3037 at max, linearly decreases to 0 at 1 HP.  Accuracy 150.

Quote
12: Cessation [Code NC] (20% mHP): Targets in hex have their status locked. For the duration, no outside sources can add or remove statuses, statdowns, or stat-buffs to/from the targets. (Note: If Katarine has this on her, Aura Lance doesn't dispel the buffs, but inflicts 0 damage)
It's Status Lock, yeah.  Drop the cost to 10%.  Perfect Accuracy.

...okay, this is the first time I did it in forever.  I probably got stuff wrong, but it's a LOT better than it used to be.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2010, 10:31:24 PM by Namagomi »
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.

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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project> Round 6: Character balancing. What MvC2 ignored.
« Reply #61 on: October 10, 2010, 06:04:57 AM »
Faron

Statwise, it is very clear what Faron is.  He's your standard keep-in-the-back Squishy Wizard, awesome against magic and terrible against physicals, has assloads of MP and high INT to back up his variety of elemental spells.  He also has no physical accuracy, paper-thin durability against anything that gets around his magic defense, and gets mocked by Reflect.  (Thankfully, he is not brought in any fights against Selena)  Average speed speaks in his favor unlike most other automatically-gained offensive mages (Faulheit, Erastus, and Rafael are all -slow-.  Noemi and Rass are fast).  He has options beyond damage, at the very least, but he does notably have problems against anything that's magic-tolerant or that can just plain blitz him.  Oddly enough, his skillset's more of a mage-type of Shao.

Weapon Damages:

Staff: 22 -> 45, 40% Accuracy, 3% Critical rate, boosts spell accuracy.
Sling: 18 -> 36, 25% Accuracy, 30% Critical rate, Range 2
Boomerang: 18 -> 36, 20% Accuracy, 3% Critical rate, may have status riders, Range 2
Rings: 22 -> 45, 25% Accuracy, 100% Critical rate (already factored), boosts INT, Range 3

...needless to say, this is in the category that we would like to refer to as 'laughable'.  But he's not a physical fighter anyway.  Taking advantage of elemental weaknesses via magic is more of his thing, and it shows.

Magic Power: (38+Power)*1.63 -> (76+Power)*1.63

Skills:

Quote
Continuous Power - Faron can keep casting until he has a negative MP value equal to his Max MP value. However, while he has a negative MP value, Faron takes a penalty of -2 ranks to all stats except MP, and anything that refers to Faron's MP instead considers him to have 0 MP. Faron's MP can be reduced to below 0 by MP-draining.

Yeah, this one's needed fixing, honestly.  Being dependent on having MP is fine and all, but it's still something that needs to be fixed to a degree.  I'd say keep his MP normal; he's at more risk of getting stabbed to death than running out of MP anyway, and costs can be fixed as necessary to keep his pool seeming particularly deep.  I'm in favor of just throwing this out, though if you want him to start suffering at low MP, a simple "-30% to STR/VIT/DEX/INT/SPR/SPD at 25% max MP" would suffice.


Quote
Focused Power - Faron is immune to any status that would reduce or disable Faron's spells/spellcasting ability. Not learned until Endgame. Quieting
Hm.  Silence immunity would be nice if silence proves to be a problem.  Not sure if you're intending Backfire to also be included in this, but that's about all I can think of here.  I'll just leave it be.


Quote
Exploder - ST/AoE. Fire-elemental. ST focuses damage, AoE is (somewhat) Circular Hex Target, hitting all targets except self at range 1. Can add Burn status. Dissonance

Having this as initial because it cements his 'power' status, for one.  For another, it sets him up as a credible threat during the times you do fight him.

Okay, Burn status is fine.  I admit that I'm going to go with my own elemental biases here, so be prepared for some variation here.

Fire, I've considered to generally be the 'economy' element.  Inexpensive, but you get what you pay for, so to speak.  Seems like the general opinion is in favor of it being the 'power' element, however, so I'll keep the trend here as such.  At least as far as it being one big hit goes.

ST: Power 1x350.  Damage: 632 -> 694.  50% chance of Burn.  Accuracy 110.

MT:Hits all adjacent hexes.  Power 1x325.  Damage: 591 -> 653.  30% chance of Burn to all adjacent hexes, Accuracy 100.


Quote
Gust - ST/AoE. Wind-elemental. ST focuses damage, AoE is (somewhat) Cone Hex Target, hitting all targets in direction from self at range 2. Can add Disoriented status. Dissonance.
Figure he needs something with a safer MT for the second.  Wind magic, to me, has all been about hits.  Lots of hits.  If you doubt me, look at Faulheit's stuff.  Disoriented is rather powerful as-is.  Busts accuracy similar to blind AND adds randomized movement?  I think the forced random movement is probably enough of a hindrance to enemies, and it can ruin meleers like no tomorrow.  And then releases a game with the debug menu clearly accessible.

ST: Power 4x35.  Damage: 472 -> 720 (varies with MDEF).  33% chance of Disorient.  Accuracy 120

MT: Power 4x25.  Damage: 408 -> 656 (Varies with MDEF).  20% chance of Disorient.  Hits a range-2 cone in front (1, then 3).  Accuracy 120


Quote
Downpour - ST/AoE. Water-elemental. ST focuses damage, AoE is a Crescent-shaped Hex Target, hitting all targets in 3 contiguous Hexes from self at range 1. Can add Displaced status. Dissonance.

Okay.  Displaced has gone bye-bye, for obvious reasons, and I'll go with the same idea that NEB had for water; Misfortune.  Niche status, and this spell instead compensates by being more versatile on the power-to-hits ratio.  Not sure what you mean by a crescent (as you described it as different from the hemicircular AoE), so I think I'll go with my first interp: 3 contiguous hexes in an arc perpendicular to the caster.  Anyway:

ST: Power 2x145.  Damage: 596 -> 720.  40% chance of Misfortune.  Accuracy 120

MT: Power: 2x120.  Damage: 514 -> 638.  25% chance of Misfortune.  Hits a 3-hex arc perpendicular to the caster within 2 hexes of the caster.  Accuracy 110.


Quote
Shocker - ST/AoE. Lightning-elemental. ST focuses damage, AoE is LT Hex Target, with central origin, hitting all targets except self at range 2. Can add Paralysis status. Dissonance.
Not too much that really needs to be said here.  I'm seeing Lightning as the 'accurate' element above all others, so it's going to be a bit more useful against those with good MEVA in practice.  Doesn't hurt that it does have good status in Paralyze--and give its MT a bonus as the only range 3 spell.

ST: Power 2x130.  Damage: 546 -> 670.  30% chance of Paralyze.  Accuracy 140.

MT: Power: 2x115.  Damage: 498 -> 622.  Hits a line three hexes long.  20% chance of Paralyze.  Accuracy 130.


Quote
Quicksand - ST/AoE. Earth-elemental. ST focuses damage, AoE is a Hemi-Circular Hex Target, hitting all targets except self at range 1. Can add Entrapped status. Dissonance.
Entrapped doesn't exist, but Immobilized does, and that seems to be what you're going for.  Earth's felt like the real 'big hit' element to me--albeit at the cost of accuracy and a small area of effect.

ST: Power 1x425.  Damage: 754 -> 816.  30% chance of Immobilize.  Accuracy 105.

MT: Power 1x410.  Damage: 730 -> 792.  15% chance of Immobilize.  Hits a semicircle in front of Faron.  Accuracy 100.


Quote
Frostfall - ST/AoE. Ice-elemental. ST focuses damage, AoE is a tri-spoke Hex Target, with a central origin, hitting all targets except self at range 1. Can add Frostbite status. Dissonance.
And this is going to be the last of the elemental spells Faron gets.  The AoE version probably deserves some lesser reduction on the basis that it's a VERY tricky AoE to use for him.  But potentially rewarding.  Freeze in place of Frostbite, as before.

ST: Power 3x80.  Damage: 576 -> 762.  10% chance of Freeze.  Accuracy 120

MT: Power 3x70.  Damage: 528 -> 711.  8% chance of Freeze, hits in a 2-hex line forward, and the two back diagonals.  Accuracy 110.


Quote
Mind/Body Restoration - ST. Heals all status on target except Death/Unconscious. Range 3. Resonance.
Going to assume this is Range 2.  And frankly, it can probably be classified as Dissonant, but I'll let it be.  We don't have that much status healing anyway.


Quote
Land's Blessing - HT. Kicks in activation at a speed independent of but equivalent two Faron's second turn. All unconscious/dead characters in target Hex are revived with 1 HP. It being on the field stops battle ending/game overs, and if one side is completely depleted, its activation is instant. Range 3. Resonance.
On the one end, it's nice that he has revival of sorts.  As a sort of 'safety button' no less.  Given the restrictions on revival, though, this probably should be a OPB move.  And Range 2.


Quote
See Mind - ST. Increases target's Vit and Spi by 10% per turn for the next six turns, before wearing off. If cast on a Hex again before wearing off, the buff level is retained with a reset timer (If Faron cast this after the buff already provided +40%, then it would provide +40% for four turns, before providing +50% and then +60%). Can only be cast on one hex on the field at a time. If cast on a different Hex, the first casting is immediately dispelled. Range 3. Resonance.
Again, Range 2.  And this is a bit complicated and headache-y to work with.  And you're getting a bit confused between ST and Hex here.  I'd argue this is a non-stacking hex effect (meaning it can't stack with Land's Blessing, and possibly gets wiped by other hex effects as well).  And the buffing feels rather high by comparison, so it's hard to say if this is good or not.


Quote
Draining - ST. Damages target's HP/MP, and heals all characters in Faron's hex by ((damage dealt * 2)/# of characters in target hex). Range 1. Dissonance/Disquiet.
Hm.  Was tempted to make it MP-only and nerf the draining, but it is notably risky insofar that it is Range 1.  Plotwise I'm for nerfing this.  Gameplay-wise, it's decentish when Faron has someone who can cover for him.  Jury's out for now.


Quote
Punish - ST. Deals non-elemental damage, auto-hits all weaknesses on targets. Ignores target defense. Not unlocked until near-endgame. Range 1. Dissonance.
Oh yeah, this screams final skill.  At the same time, I'm thinking it should throw out the ITD and just go with nontype weakness-hitting.  It's more of a fallback if you're not sure of an enemy weakness, than something to spam against bosses, the way I see it.  Power is 3x65.  Damage 501 -> 687.  But make it Range 2.  Accuracy 120.


Quote
Illness - HT. Adds Poison/Blind/Confusion/Charm/Doom/Sleep/Silence. Each status has a check independent of each other. Range 1. Dissonance/Disquiet.
Given that a lot of these statuses are out of date...it seems like you're basically going for a Bad Breath-esque skill.  As much as he is trying to cover every base...it's not exactly the best idea.  Batman Wizards are never popular.  That aside: make the status cocktail something along the lines of Poison/Blind/Disoriented/Paralysis/Backfire and it should be decent.  Accuracy 90 for each status.  Still tempted to throw this one out, though.
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.

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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project> Round 6: Character balancing. What MvC2 ignored.
« Reply #62 on: October 12, 2010, 02:28:55 AM »
Just noting that I really like the Faron re-invisioning you have here. The only thing I would add is that his spells were all made range 1 for the specific reasoning that if he has a bunch of ranged spells, his crap durability will never actually hinder him. So he needs a reason to get in close.

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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project> Round 6: Character balancing. What MvC2 ignored.
« Reply #63 on: October 17, 2010, 04:42:41 PM »
Time for another overview/retooling.  This time of yet another skillset nightmare by yours truly.

Katarine

Yeah, finally doing her overview.  Katarine is statistically, an oddity, and a generally frail but dodgy individual.  While she doesn't quite have the raw pEVA of sorts like Mirek or Ilona, or the mEVA of Faron, she comes close in both regards, being overall dodgy and hard to land a hit (or status) on.  This is fortunate because she is also generally VERY frail.  Her high Dexterity and Speed scores help underline this tendency, as she will move fast and often; a benefit for both a speed-based attacker and a buffer--with an odd level of self-sufficiency and particularly high mobility.  She doesn't like being tied down if she can help it, preferring an ability to dance out of range of slower melee enemies, and possibly close in on the less cooperative squishies if she has a free turn during which she can.

Weapon Damages:
Light Sword: 240 -> 480 over 4 attacks, 80% ACC, 6% Crit, 20% Counter.  This JUST misses a fifth attack; if given that, damage goes up to 288->576.
Rapier: 225 -> 450 over 4 attacks, 80% ACC, 15% Crit, 30% Counter.
Throwing Knife: 144 -> 288 over 3 attacks, 70% ACC, 6% Crit, 20% Counter, Range 3.
Darts: 135 -> 270 over 4 attacks, 70% ACC, 6% Crit, 20% Counter, Range 3.  Same corollary as with Light Swords.  Damage jumps to 172-> 344 with a fifth attack.
Katars: 198 -> 396 over 5 attacks, 85% ACC, 30% Crit, 15% Counter.  Damage is likely to fluctuate a good deal in practice due to the critrate.

Okay, so yeah.  She's a solid fighter as far as things go, and can do some solid damage to those with low DEX and less than stellar armor.  Katars, due to their fairly strong benefits, are a weapon type likely to be restricted in availability based on the havoc the two users can wreak, potentially.

Magic damage equation: (Power-12)*0.76 -> (Power-24)*0.75.

Given, she shares a party with Isolde.  They're the suicide squad for the most part; you're pretty much needing some sort of solid offense if you want to stay up to par in there.  That aside, the big deal with her is her skillset, which needs a couple of alterations; one for flavor, and one for the sake of easing up mechanics a bit.

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*Conduit Leech: Katarine gains the benefits of hex-target support spells that she casts on allies. She uses this technique to split the effect of her Dissonance abilities in half to minimize the Disquiet backlash effects.

Yeah, this one's gone through enough discussion.  It's the only one of her skills that starts at 'full', since it just has that one effect.  This is pretty much the -core- ability for her to prevent being a weak link, given her skillset and mobility.

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*Biogenesis: Hex Target spell. Adds Regeneration to targets of hex. Regeneration duration or AoE possibly increases with level. The backlash effect of this skill is that it instantly Dispels any other buffs on the target, including Katarine herself. If another buff is cast on someone with the Regen, then the Regen effect is dispelled. Dissonance.  

Her only healing spell for the game, and it's a more "regen" style.  This one is tricky on the basis that it resets her buffing game, but it's also the only source of healing.  First thing to do, since everyone insisted on it ages ago, is to make the regen a non-percentile value.  The next is to cut the number of levels down to 5, rather than 10, making it a bit less unwieldy, and easier to write a progression for.

As such, we should also be able to get into active healing equations now--since Kasia and Aurel also gain healing of this variety, and it's more important for them.  It will likely be renoted as such: a*INT+b, where a is a positive value and b is a positive integer of sorts.

In Katarine's case, the skill's values will likely be as such:

Level:              1                2                3                4                5
Duration:         2                3                3                4                4
Regen:       3*INT+80   4*INT+100    4*INT+140   5*INT+160   5*INT+200
Radius(Hexes): 0                0                1                1                1

In case this comes off as powerful, keep in mind that this does eat buffs in the process, and goes away if she wants to use any or all of them at some point.  This means that if creatively used, she technically has a dispel--but it adds regen.  Also, not discriminatory with the AoE there.
As for charges, thinking this would start at 6, eventually going up to 12 by Level 50.


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*Rapid Perception: Hex Target spell. Percentile speed boost to of targets of hex. Levels increase strength or duration of boost. Target loses 2% mHP every turn while this status is active. Dissonance.

Aaaand here comes the speed boost.  One of Katarine's initial buffs, and probably one of the notably stronger ones on the basis of what it chooses to buff.  Speed's important in this game, even if it isn't calculated quadratically.  Anyway, again, 5 levels, non-percentile.

Level:          1                 2                3                4                5
Duration:     2                 2                3                3                4
Boost:     0.4*INT       0.5*INT       0.5*INT       0.6*INT       0.7*INT

Charges: 4, increasing to 8 by Level 50.


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*Kinetic Buffer: Hex Target spell. Grants resistance to Slash/Pierce/Impact attacks, IE: physical elements. Levels increase the resistance granted. Target loses 2% mHP every turn while this status is active. Dissonance

As a start, let me bring up the fact that each buffer seems to have their own means of boosting defenses, in a method seeminly befitting of themselves.  Eirwen likes to buff the target's natural stats with her cooking.  By comparison, Jin likes to grant small but notable buffs to DEF and MDEF with his songs.  Katarine, by comparison, prefers directly cutting into the damage taken via resist-adding barriers; that's where this comes in.  An -extremely- valuable spell early on for fights that the team can't quite blitz through, since it adds a degree of tankiness that is hard to deny

No duration's listed here, where most spells do.  Making it a function of level, as is befitting most of her spells.  

Level:        1        2        3        4        5
Duration:   4        4        5        6        7
Resist:     30%    35%   40%    45%    50%

Charges: 4, increasing to 9 by L50.


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Alacrity: Single-target spell. +30% DEX boost to target. Levels increase the duration of the boost. Target loses 2% mHP every turn while this status is active. Dissonance. (Prerequisite skill to be levelled: Rapid Perception)

The first of two spells that she does not gain benefits from casting on allies, and for very good reason.  DEX is one of those stats that is about on par with SPD for power.  That is to say, high.  Small changes can alter an opponent's durability and offense heavily--and possibly give someone like Isolde or another heavy a VERY large boost.  Larger than from a percentile buff, anyway, given how bad DEX is for some of them.

Boost is changed to a flat 0.4*INT.  Level alters duration only.

Level:         1     2     3     4     5
Duration:    2     3     4     5     6

Prerequisite: Rapid Perception Level 4.
Charges: 2, increases linearly to 6 by L50.


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Energy Buffer: Hex Target spell. Grants resistance to magical elements. Levels increase the resistance granted. Target loses 2% mHP every turn while this status is active. Dissonance.(Prerequisite skill: Kinetic Buffer)

Not much to say here.  It's pretty much the magic-element end of Katarine's defense buffing.  In fact, I have no reason to really let it be any different aside from the fact that rather than buffing Slash/Impact/Pierce, it instead boosts resist to Fire/Ice/Lightning/Earth/Wind/Water/Light/Disquiet.

Level:        1        2        3        4        5
Duration:   4        4        5        6        7
Resist:     30%    35%   40%    45%    50%

Prerequisite: Kinetic Buffer Level 3
Charges: 4, increasing to 9 by L50.


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Killing Sight: Single-target spell. Grants flat critical rate boost to target. Levels increase duration of boost. Target loses 2% mHP every turn while this status is active. Dissonance.(Prerequisite skill: Alacrity)

And here is the point at which we start hitting blatantly offensive buffs, and powerful ones at that.  A boost to critical rate will help just about anyone who relies on physicals.  Strongly, at that.  Thus, the boost will be a flat 20%.  Good enough to be notable, but not so much as to start being hax.  Level only increases duration.  Charges are few.

Level:      1     2     3     4     5
Duration: 2     2     3     3     4

Prerequisite: Alacrity Level 4.
Charges: Starts at 1, increases linearly to 5 by L50.


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Empower: Hex Target spell. Grants percentile boost to ATK and INT for all targets in area. Levels increase duration and strength of boost. Target loses 2% mHP every turn while this status is active. Dissonance.(Prerequisite skills: Biogenesis, Kinetic Buffer)

Another fairly powerful buff, this one hitting ATK and INT.  This one is notable for being the last buff she gets that powers up with level (unless you get Killing Sight later).  Also the first of skills with multiple prerequisites.  It's an extremely strong buff, and likely one of the last ones to be obtained, really.  Also, notable that this is the only one that specifically needs to be noted, though this goes for all her buffs: Repeated castings only reset the timer.  They do not reapply the effect with new stats.

Level:            1           2           3           4           5
Boost:      0.3*INT  0.3*INT  0.4*INT  0.4*INT   0.5*INT
Duration:       2           3           3           4           4

Prerequisites: Biogenesis L4, Kinetic Buffer L4
Charges: Starts at 2, increases to 5 by L50.


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Aura Lance: Single-target non-elemental offensive spell. Deals extra damage for each stat boost or positive status that is on Katarine. Dispels all such boosts after resolution of the attack. Dissonance. Leveling increases damage and accuracy. (Prerequisite skills: Empower, Energy Buffer)

Katarine's only offensive spell--and an unusual one.  It eats her buffs to release a fairly large attack on the enemy (and notably does not work with any sort of Status Locking).  Tempted to take this off of Nontyped...though now that Isolde got her specialty moved off of Nontyped...  <_<  That aside, eh, keeping it Non-elemental, on the basis that it's a very situational spell anyway.

#hits = #boosts consumed.

Anyway, the main reason for leveling this sucker up's going to be the power boost.  Katarine's magic damage SUCKS, so anything that gives her a boost is wanted.

Level:          1       2       3       4       5
Power:       250    275    300    325    350
To Hit:       100    110    120    130    140

Prerequisites: Empower Level 3, Energy Buffer Level 4
Charges: Starts at 2, increases to 4 at Level 50.


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Ablation: Hex target spell. Targets of spell negate the next attack directed at them. Dissonance. Levelling increases the number of charges, albeit slowly.(Prerequisite skills: Kinetic Buffer, Energy Buffer, Killing Sight)
Katarine's last spell, and it's pretty much her top barrier.  Kind of a scaled-down White Dragon Protect, where the next attack/attack string is flat out negated.  This is a special case of "lasts until triggered" for Katarine, and as such is the only buff with infinite duration.  As there's no other way to boost its effect, levels instead increase the number of charges.

Level:      1     2     3     4     5
Charge:   1     1     2     2     3

Prerequisites:  Kinetic Buffer L5, Energy Buffer L5, Killing Sight L5
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.

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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project> Round 6: Character balancing. What MvC2 ignored.
« Reply #64 on: October 18, 2010, 06:13:56 PM »
Claire

Yeah, okay.  Claire is, speed aside, dead average in just about everything, Speed(awesome) Intelligence(useless) and Spirit aside.  She's a giant pain in the ass to consider with Role Adaptation, however, which lets her switch roles from her "Queen of average" setup to either a defensive tank or a more mobile fighter.  It's...really hard to say much about her to start, really, what with her mostly-average tendencies.

Weapon Damage:
Pike: 168 -> 336, 75% Accuracy, 12% Critical, no counters, Range 2.
Guardian Blade: 120 -> 240, 100% Accuracy, 9% Critical, 15% Counter
Spear: 120 -> 240, 90% Accuracy, 18% Critical, 25% Counter
Shortspear: 108 -> 216, 95% Accuracy, 18% Critical, 25% Counter
Javelin: 108 -> 216, 90% Accuracy, 12% Critical, no counters, Range 3

So basically, special weapons aside, she's got a few options.  Pikes for damage and range (thus possible counter avoidance), Guardian Blades for zomfgwtf accuracy, Spears and shortspears for counterhax, and Javelins for pure range.  She's not too good on damage, though her skillset's an odd setup anyway, designed more for positioning and utility than actual power, as we'll see below.

The first matter of the deal that applies is her skill learning method.  We've got nothing listed here aside from "training under Mirek".  So...we'll have to figure out a simple enough mechanic.  Plot learning could work, but I was thinking more along the lines of (learned after X battles in the same party).  In other words, as long as Mirek and Claire are in the same active party, it counts as a battle towards this.  Happens automatically for the times she's forced, but this will have to be actively done when the party selections are wider/mixed up.

Anyway, skills will be handled in this way: Passives, then Focus, then item.  Because items are a pain.

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Hyperactive: Claire's speed is raised by 1% for every 5% focus meter she currently has.
Eh, this is fine.  I'd be worried about her capability to hyperbuff Focus for others (Meilin especially loves this) at an accelerated rate, but then I remembered that other party members can buff speed to begin with.

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Role Adaptation: If equipped with only Light-class armor, gain +1 Move, raise Physical/Magical evasion to B, lower Vitality/(MDEF stat) to F. If equipped only with Heavy-class armor, lose 1 Move, lower Physical/Magical evasion to F, lower Speed to D+, raise Vitality/(MDEF stat) to B, and gain OPB Special Endure (instead of only lasting for one attack, lasts until the next party member's turn). Non-weight-type equipment do not count against this passive.

...okay, this is a fucking headache, Magic.  I haven't wanted to punt someone this badly since I did an overview on Ilona--and that includes Faron's headache of a passive that was just ASKING to be thrown out.  Anyway, the way I'm reading this: If she has Light-class armor and no Medium/Heavy-class accessories, she gets some boosts and penalties.  Likewise, heavy-class armor and no medium/light accessories.  Guardian and Female accessories do not count this.  Anyway, thank god VIT, SPR, and Evade are easy enough to work with.  Tempted to drop the 'endure' deal for varying reasons.  Revising this to:

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]Role Adaptation: If equipped with only Light-class armor and accessories, gain +1 Move, raise Physical/Magical evasion by a flat 15%, lower Vitality/Spirit by 30%.  If equipped only with Heavy-class armor, lose 1 Move, lower Physical/Magical evasion by 30%, lower Speed by 33%, raise Vitality/Spirit by 15%

There.  Much cleaner.  Speed's not perfect, but you're dealing with something that is the approximation for 1/3, and I'm not putting repeating decimals in there.  It's ugly.

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Sweet Tooth: The effects of food items are doubled on Claire.
Throwing this out.  Niche effect that allows a bit too much synergy with Eirwen in particular.
[EDIT] Back due to popular demand.  Rewriting as such for clarification of the effect:

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Sweet Tooth: The effects of Claire's food items are doubled on herself

Clarification is intended to remove excess synergistics with Eirwen, who would have been able to give her ridiculously good healing.


Proposed: Act & Move: If Claire has not moved prior to taking an action, she may take a move action afterwards.

Figured this would give her a bit more.  She seems really focused on positioning and mobility, the way I see her, so this should shore things up on that end.


Focus SKills now.

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Petite Madeleine: (25% Focus) Rushes into an enemy, pushing it back one hex. For each ally in the same hex, this range is increased by 1. If the enemy cannot travel back any more hexes, then it is stunned for as many turns as how many hexes it had left to travel

I'd like to say that this would be his first skill.  Straightforward to use, with a clear benefit.  I'd tone down the stun to always be one turn, though.  Pushback makes this situationally useful as well, though.


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Tarte Tatin: (20% Focus) Claire impales the enemy, flipping her to the hex on the other side of the enemy, and then pushing the enemy into the hex she was just in.

A bit finicky for positioning, but other than that I'd say it's fine.  I'm actually more questioning the usefulness of this skill, honestly.  It moves her up, and I guess it could be useful for getting at someone behind another enemy, but I'm...lacking ideas for it by comparison.


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Mille-feuille: (50% Focus) 3-range HT. Pushes all enemies in range into the last Hex of the range.

Third skill gained.  I'd assume you mean 3-hex LT here, but aside from that, the gathering and LT are useful here.  Drop the focus cost to 40%


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Crème Brûlée: (60% Focus) Hits all enemies in all surrounding Hexes, Range 1. All enemies hit by this skill are forced into the same hex.

I hate those damned accents.  That aside, this seems like a more versatile 'gather' effect.  I'd argue that the 'gather' hex is the one the primary "target" hex, so to speak.  The fact that it doesn't push the enemies away does allow for easier grouping than Mille-feuille.  Drop the focus cost to 50%

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Profiterole: (30% Focus) Impales an enemy, and then flips the enemy right behind her, causing it one turn of stun.

Last one learned!  Reliable stun and fairly easy repositioning will do that.  Boost the cost to 35%.


will edit in the goddamned fruit stuff later.  I need a break.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2010, 12:37:05 AM by Namagomi »
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.

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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project> Round 6: Character balancing. What MvC2 ignored.
« Reply #65 on: October 18, 2010, 09:17:31 PM »
Taking away Sweet Tooth?  Man, way to suggest deleting one of the most awesome skills in the game.  Gameplay + Plot connection is coooooool
[11:53] <+Meeple_Gorath> me reading, that's a good one

[19:26] * +Terra_Condor looks up. Star Wars Football, what?
[19:27] <+Terra_Condor> Han Kicks First?
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Vader intercepts.
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Touchdown and Alderaan explodes in the victory

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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project> Round 6: Character balancing. What MvC2 ignored.
« Reply #66 on: October 18, 2010, 09:24:59 PM »
I also like Sweet Tooth, though I'll point out that based on the flavour of the move I'd been assuming it only worked on sweets, which is to say, Claire's own stuff and not Eirwen's. If it's intended to work on the latter then it definitely needs rebalancing (and it may anyway), but I'd like to see it stay in some form.

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.