Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 4

[OblivionKnight]

There, have your superboss, Neph >_>

[Nephrite]

The President is pleased.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

When are you replacing the Change Relic fight with Elizabeth, Neph.

[Nephrite]

Soon.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Capital.

[Nephrite]

http://www.dokuganryu.com/scans/megaten/p4/

Artbook scans for bosses and stuff if we want them.

[Dark Holy Elf]

So, I decided to take a look at the game's damage average since the numbers already posted seemed a bit off. Talked to Tal about it, and after some toying around with spreadsheets we both figured out how to actually properly factor in self-damaging moves. Basically, self-damage moves can be reflected well by subtracting

(Kill point) * (% MHP self-damage)

off of each character's damage. This is non-trivial to calculate because knowledge of the kill point is needed to calculate what said kill point is, but repeated estimates will converge to the correct average. Tal came up with a formula that you could take the limit at infinity and get the average directly, but simple brute force suffices for the precision the DL needs (i.e., to the nearest point of damage), so that's what I used. Anyway, math details aside, here's how P4's looks:

Auto-Taru, Souji included

Souji 1400 - 1018*0.125 = 1273
Teddie: 361
Yosuke: 329
Kanji: 518 - 1018*0.2 = 314
Yukiko: 281
Naoto: 148
Chie: 143

Average: 407
Kill point: 1018

Yeah, this is higher than the previously listed average. Note that, if anything, this average might be an underestimate — a 3-turn average would make use of Power Charge and Mind Charge (Chie's damage skyrockets in particular) and thus be higher, or you could also argue that since Souji has two full HP bars that his % self-damage should be halved. But anyway.

Other averages

Non-Souji averages are listed for those who feel Souji is too much of an outlier when considering the damage of non-Souji PCs (I'd have to play the game to decide how I feel, there, but based on hype for Chie OHKOing, this is probably a common enough interp). Non-Auto-Taru averages are listed if the boys want to set up for defence and/or if at some point in the future P4 defence is actually determined to be effective enough for this to be a default. For space reasons I won't list out the calculations like I did for the first.

Auto-Taru, no Souji: 274 (685 kill point)
No Auto-Taru, Souji included: 312 (779 kill point)
No Auto-Taru, no Souji: 221 (552 kill point)

[OblivionKnight]

I see you wish to join us.

Join usssssssssss.....

I'll even send you the game for free!
 
With $10!

Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease??


I've always had an issue with self-damaging attacks in an average as the "best" damage.  It could be personal playstyle, but even in cases like Star Ocean: Till the End of Time where the majority of your damage in-game will come from it, it feels off to assume that someone in the format we assume for combat in the RPGDL will always want to nuke 20% of their HP each attack.  Especially since there's other ways in-game to get around that (healing, regeneration, different attacks that are just as effective in-game without those side effects, etc.).  Granted, if the self-damage attack is better than the other ones by a huge amount, I'd be ok assuming them in an average by themselves - it just strikes me as wrong that the assumption should be to kill yourself to deal damage when that's not always the case in-game.  

Although I can see the argument the other way, it just strikes me odd that self-damage would be the assumed standard.  It's a different take on what should be standard, the way I see it, so it doesn't really strike me as "off".  

Also...the Auto-Taru armour doesn't strike me as a good default (although, again, average vs. itself is fine) because it only lasts 3 actions.  For Kanji I guess it doesn't matter, but for the other guys, they could very well want something else.  Honestly, the +10 AGI armour would be a better option, since the boost is consistent and doesn't go away.  Just strikes me again as weird to use a very short-term effect as default, although again, this may very well just be a playstyle/interpretational difference.