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Author Topic: OK's SMT IAQ thoughts  (Read 845 times)

DjinnAndTonic

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OK's SMT IAQ thoughts
« on: September 08, 2010, 06:55:47 AM »
I was reading through the SMT IAQ thing that OK's been posting on the wiki ( http://rpgdl.com/wiki/index.php?title=Untitled_Shin_Megami_Tensei_IAQ ) and I  thought I'd share some of my thoughts here since I'm stuck at work and can't actually contact him through IRC.

First thoughts: The brief character descriptions give only the barest hint of what the setting is supposed to be like, so I can't really comment on the story.

Characters: I noticed that OK has his requisite healer-archer-chick, and a larger number of female characters than male characters. Also, the 2 male characters are significantly less important than the female ones. And one of them is a doctor, who doesn't get any healing skills. Also, not a fan of the names outside of Anastasia. They're just too plain and forgettable, honestly.

Character builds: The two optional characters have the most striking builds that I could see, with their focus on multiple-elements and broad range of quickly-gained skills. The main characters have somewhat less obvious builds, and seem a bit boring, though I did note that David seems to play an interesting Magic Counter game. The aforementioned healer-archer chick seems a bit overpowered? The doctor-guy who doesn't get any healing skills gets the best ID skill in the game, so I'm assuming this is going to be some kind of angsty plot point of irony. If it's not, then it's just kind of a an annoying subversion of the trope, since I would rather him follow a logical stereotype than have his plotpowers completely misaligned from his gameplay powers.

Equips: Mostly good on Weapons and Armors. Accessories are horribly boring apart from the last section where you actually took the time to come up with some effects rather than just generic stat boosts.

Skills: Mostly generic, but I particular like this part of the list:
Quote
Cocytus Pain: Sets all elemental affinities to 50% weakness for all targets until their next action - 84 SP
Magma Axis: Reduces damage received by 25%, counters all attacks on user with a fire attack for 5 turns - 40 SP
Dark Baptism: Negates healing or restorative effects to or from a target for 5 turns - 40 SP
Omega Cluster: Inflicts instant death at perfect probability to the lowest level target in the battle at the end of each of the user's actions, will not kill the last target in the battle - 60 SP
Expel: Inflicts instant death to all targets if they are either weak to light or resistant to dark at a perfect probability - 36 SP
Alpha Blaster: Reduces CHP by 50% of all targets at perfect probability after every action taken in the battle - 60 SP
Discharge: Deals damage equal to all damage received during the battle divided by all targets active in the battle, resets after use, not negated by death or status effects - 96 SP

Some interesting effects here, particularly Omega Cluster.

To OK:
Game Suggestions: Change some of the plainest character names. Catherine and Anastasia are fine, but the rest could really use some work. In fact, I just had to check the other window to even -remember- what any of the other characters' names were. Joan, David, Diane, Joshua... really really too plain. Also not a fan of Hikari-/Yami- spell names, but I can't think of any good alternatives.

Wiki Suggestions: Add some short descriptions to the character pages about how each character build is intended to be played, what their 'key' abilities are, what their 'focus' is, what their weapons/armors add to their game. Doesn't have to be long, but since I had to flip back-and-forth between the skills page and the character pages just to get an idea of what they were intended to -do-, this IAQ isn't really doing a good job of answering even my frequently-asked-questions, let alone the infrequent ones~

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Re: OK's SMT IAQ thoughts
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2010, 08:39:47 AM »
I am just going to assume with names like Catherine and Anastasia that OK has made a game where all of your PCs are sequential components of a Russian Doll.  Which could easilly tie this into you being commanded around by Rasputin from Devil Summoner fame setup up yet another SMT returning character and cross over.

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Re: OK's SMT IAQ thoughts
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2010, 03:34:56 PM »
Thanks for the comments. 

As for not having large amounts of setting/character/story yet...I figured most of the DL that might look at it would be interested in mechanics stuff first, so that's the stuff I have set to do last.  Also, it's in notes I've taken, so it would take more time, relatively, to post all that up than the other stuff first. 

Names: The names were a design choice of my own, as I wanted them to be relatively common and "normal" sounding.  Granted, looking back on it...some are a bit generic (David), so I'd be open to suggestions for changing them, as long as they're still...normal!

As for Evan...this is something I intend to explain with him when I add more information, but my reasoning for the lack of healing is - he's a DO, not MD.  It's a bit of commentary, but there's some asinine medical organizations that feel that DO's are not as competent (the AMA in particular, which also throws pharmacists, dental surgeons, nurse practitioners, and others, into the category of "groups of people that do not have the training to practice on their own without an 'appropriately-trained' physician assisting them").  The difference between DO and MD is that DO receive additional training on complementary/alternative medicine (CAM), whereas MD do not receive much (if any) at all.  After the framing device (disaster, whatever), a lot of places that train physicians are moved to utilize more natural therapies, as much of the infrastructure of the modern world is gone.  There are still, however, some groups in the better developed areas that look down on this (i.e., those with additional infrastructure more akin to now), and are still against this CAM and natural practice, since they have the components to practice "modern" medicine.  Since "college" is more of an afterthought in the rest of the world (these areas of modern refuge are very rare), these places have "monopoly" on "real" medicine, and thus look down on anywhere else and anyone else that practices medicine in the world at a whole, i.e., where most people are and need the most help.  So Evan is an "evil" doctor because of his "degree" (which means practically nothing now, but represents he's a physician of the "less developed" world), and therefore uses the stuff he does.  So yes, medical racism is awesome >_>  Also, physicians WOULD know how to kill someone pretty well, so it still makes sense even if you don't read all my commentary <_<

I think the reason the male characters don't seem as important as the females is because I've made several changes to them since first inception, and so they are "less developed" by nature right now. 

As for the optionals...they have undergone so many changes it's crazy.  I have CUT THEM DOWN in abilities, since I wanted them to be interesting options and unique in their own right, but the way it was going...it seemed like Joshua completely outclassed any other physical fighter, and some of the mages, and Diane was similarly powerful.  For example!

Joshua: Originally had MAG at the level of Erika.  Skills he had originally included MT versions of all elements, innate elemental boost, the physical counter series, innate almighty boost, Power Charge, the MT -kundas, and originally had Cocytus Pain before giving that to Erika (under a different name)

Diane (originally Ariana, for names, but I felt like I had too many A-names, and it didn't seem to mesh well with the others): Probably not as bad, but originally had the highest MAG of the group, as well as more relative END.  She had innate amp for all her elements (still ST only), the magic counter series, Mind Charge, Tetrakarn and Makarakarn, revival, the current Magma Axis (under a different name), had Enduring Soul, and...had a skill I think I got rid of since it seemed redundant.  She also VOIDED all the elements she uses, whereas now, she's merely strong to them (so basically a crazy wall).  She also had almighty stuff too, though I think it was...oh yeah, Last Resort >_>

I cut them down a lot, as you can see >_>.  Plot-wise it would make sense to be that strong, but...I wanted them to be worth getting, but not people who completely outclassed everyone at everything (no other physical fighter could even come close to Joshua, and the perfect party I saw was basically Joshua+Diane+Catherine+who cares, which is no fun - I wanted everyone to have a use).

The purpose of the other characters:

Catherine - Able to do a bit of everything.  Her skillset has not changed at all, and her skills...are the same.  Her stats are overall strong, except for slightly below par SP and bad HP. 

Anastasia - Chie with a few changes.  Her use would be for criticals (which I will add to the mechanics section as I complete it), as her techs have high critical rates and her skills exemplify that (Sharp Student/Apt Pupil).  She also has the electric element, and good overall stats (except MAG), plus the physical counter series and draining (albeit, late - I should make that earlier). 

Erika - WHY SHOULD THE BOWGIRL NOT BE OVERPOWERED!?  Uh...anyway!  An alternate healer.  Misses revival, but does get Salvation instead.  Her focus is on status (silence, sleep, charm - she's a stripper, come on!), as well as having the drains, Invigorate (...mmm...limitless SP - I hadn't noticed that...might want to change her around a bit).  Tetrakarn I added to her, though I'm wondering if that is even necessary.  She is the least durable character (2nd lowest HP and lower END than Catherine put her at around 70% or so), and not as fast (average or so), so her use is a bit different.  Mmmm...she probably does need to be cut down a little bit.

David (used to be a female at one point!) - He has gone through so many changes because he and Evan were the two I could not find a way to make them usable with Joshua the way he was.  Her originally had...only fire and the status he had, which is horribly boring.  So...he got revival (fire, Phoenix, revival - makes sense), the -kundas (only source of them if you don't get Joshua), the magic counter series, and some status restoration.  Last Resort also went to him, and Magma Axis, so he has the best source of almighty damage (whereas originally, only the optionals had any), though it kills him, as well as a defensive technique.  Still feels like a weak link, but better.

Evan - Probably was more useful than David due to instant death!  He ended up getting Dekaja and Dekunda (...those were originally split with Joshua and Diane >_>) and a few new skills like Dark Baptism, Wrath (mostly for making his physical stuff seem threatening), and Nullity Guidance (GARLAND SLAYER!!!).  I'm relatively happy with him now, honestly.

Joan - Honestly think she's getting a bit too strong, myself.  Another healer, but with only MT healing and revival.  She otherwise is very basic in what she does, but her stats are pretty good.  Light damage, decent speed, awesome offense (game-high MAG), surprisingly useful physical techs, and some oddball abilities like Divine Judgment.  Kind of basic, but fills a role - she's a protector, so healing on her makes sense, to me.

So...yeah.  Those are my points on them.  Any thoughts on making them a bit different?  I thought the builds were decently obvious except for David/Evan, but...I could be off.  It's helpful to have a second eye on this.  One possibility I was playing with was to remove Erika's healing and make her purely status (switching David's stuff over to her).  One less healer, and the focus is instead of mostly random-killing and debilitating (could also give her the stat breaks, give David the Rakukaja series).  Only 3 healers (Catherine, Joan, Joshua, and J/J get MT/ST only, respectively), and 3 revivers (Catherine, David, Joan).  Makes the choice of healer a little more interesting.

Accessories: Any thoughts on other ideas?  The generic ones are basically SMT staples, and the others I added in.  I have other ideas, but I put a lot of them into armour for interesting set-ups (Ares Regalia + Berserker Garb, or Berserker Garb + Berserk Ring).  In addition, I don't want to outclass weapons with accessories (not that the best healing booster accessory is +25%, whereas Erika has one bow that is +50%) - they should be, to me, just that - accessories to what else your characters use.  I could see more, but I don't want to make redundant stuff.

Hikari/Yami - I would kill for any suggestions ;_:  They are at least recognizable!  <_<

Name changes: Mmm...I do like more simplistic names, as mentioned above, so nothing crazy like Yuamighai >_>  Erika probably needs to stay (she's...uh...supposed to be nordic if the height didn't tip anyone in, and I need a good stripper name, and "Erotic Erika" is just so awesome).  Diane would probably work switched to Ariana, Joan/David/Joshua I'd have to think on (or if you have any good suggestions!). 

Wiki: The short descriptions are on my list of stuff to add, but I figured I should throw mechanics and the like up first (DL interest?).  It should have a heading in the characters section (I might not have added it yet, but it should be "Character Design Theory Notes").  I have the write-ups, mostly above, though in clearer language.

Thanks again for the feedback - it is really nice to have another eye looking at this (since I've been working on-and-off on it for...uh...a year+?  Since Persona 4).   
[11:53] <+Meeple_Gorath> me reading, that's a good one

[19:26] * +Terra_Condor looks up. Star Wars Football, what?
[19:27] <+Terra_Condor> Han Kicks First?
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Vader intercepts.
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Touchdown and Alderaan explodes in the victory