Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 59

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Dhyer is taking effective speed, actually. That's the actually verifiable effect in-game, but it hits a hard cap -and- both Gale spells suffer from pretty hefty recharge, which mitigates the first-turn effect. I'll also have to add to Magic's defense that using SDs for CTB systems is pretty um. >_>

[SnowFire]

I still need to think about Team Tallybot, but Silent Lake shouldn't be TOO bad?  It's either an unblockable ST Silence that lasts for 5 rounds or an unblockable ST Silence that also Silences Chris (making it ST for both sides), thus turning off her ability to toss more mages into the Lake.  Even if the first interp is used (go go Merton hype on this floor?), there's enough mages that Chris has to spend all her time round-robining Lake to keep it up and not beating down, and she eventually runs out of charges.

Jo'ou, re: Zio / Zera / Mohs: Let's say Zera does something dangerous.  At worst, Feena casts a Tree of Life to reset the Paralysis / Lightning damage / whatever.  (Feena is resisting both status and Lightning so she definitely can do this.)  Zera fails enough, and the team has enough offense, that Zera will never live to see round 2.  Against just Mohs / Zio, the team should be able to tank their offense easily enough, especially post-Ricardo buff, so dropping Zera is all that really needs to happen.  (So something like Red Bolt3 / Tree of Life / GrandTrain / EternalTreasure / Celes Ice3.  Toss in an extra spell from Red if they triggered his limit.)

[Talaysen]

Alright, if you don't think SDs are needed for CT based games like SH than stop doing things like hyping Lucia as being 190% after Gale. I'm assuming that Dhyer's topic uses SD for calculating speed after buffs and fusions because I really can't see how else he was able to calculate 94 compared to a 68 average as 190% average speed.

You assume wrong.  SH2 speed is not linear, so the effective speed is not necessarily equal to just dividing the speed stats.  It's not even the only game to do this...

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Yeah, I even glossed it over, Snowfire. I think you should still manage, barring Zera getting really lucky on a paralysis string, but how long do you have to let him live for -that- to pan out? You can more or less assume I think you make the Zio fight.

Also, I derped on Tally-chu. Will actually have to think about this. Damn ye. For all I'm not sure if it helps much, ST unblockable silence still spells some trouble for a frail, magic-heavy team.

[Random Consonant]

Saying that Rika's Illusion makes TG Cid from FFT get septa-turned or whatever seems wrong, since YOU WILL NEVER DOUBLE ENEMIES IN PS4 NATURALLY, EVEN WITH THAT.  Having Haste and Slowed enemies in FFT, however, is entirely arguable for getting triple turns.

If you're trying to shoehorn PS4 Agility into being treated as CTB style speed an ability that nukes it ought to have an effect on CTB style speed, just sayin'.  Yes, doing so grossly inflates the in-game worth of a trashy in-game move, welcome to the DL.  Not that this seems to be relevent to your argument anymore, just felt like throwing this out there.

Meanwhile facepalm at dude for arguing SDs for CTB games.  Seriously.

[superaielman]

I don't think it's relevant to that fight- they either go for the meganuke or blitz with MT moves of doom, or Magic squashes them. I don't think there is an outcome of the fight that isn't decided by the time Rika would get a second turn.  I think he's got a reasonable argument to stop the PS4 fight myself, just getting that far is a problem.

[superaielman]

Also, pass for Team Snowfire. Poison, Dhyer? Against a team that can largely block poison? Am I missing something?

[Random Consonant]

Onto voting which I have been remiss on doing because lazy!

I'll buy Team Snowfire passing, since the arguments for look sound enough to me.  Team Tal-Hatbot fails, on a kneejerk, this does not look like a kind floor to that sort of team.  No vote on Team Magic due to unlimited SH works, abstaining on Team OK.

[Magic Fanatic]

I don't think it's relevant to that fight- they either go for the meganuke or blitz with MT moves of doom, or Magic squashes them. I don't think there is an outcome of the fight that isn't decided by the time Rika would get a second turn.  I think he's got a reasonable argument to stop the PS4 fight myself, just getting that far is a problem.

Well, first fight might be largely mitigated by this:

Turn order is Nash -> Blanca -> Ricardo -> Alex -> Yuri -> Shania -> Lucia -> Kyle -> Mia.
Party order is Shania-Blanca-Lucia-Yuri-Ricardo, and assuming being hit by Sleep cancels the next turn (which I honestly don't know).

Nash casts Sleep on Blanca, catching Shania/Blanca/Lucia.  Ricardo uses Arc Heal.  Alex uses Red Dragon Anger.  Yuri uses For Everyone.  Kyle can probably hit...  One person (he has no true MT, just a self-based AoE and a horizontal-LT), and Mia uses Flameria.

Thanks to the defense buff from For Everyone, I'll probably come out of that with one person dead (maybe two), but the others are stat-buffed to hell and back.  After that, it's pretty easy to pick myself up after that mess.  By now, Ricardo will probably have a bar of stock from being hit so much and so hard, so.

He pretty much needs to make sure he catches Shania, or else she just doubles Sanlittobell->Shining Zephyr to completely undo Alex's RDA (she's got the Dream Porter, so she starts with 2 bars of stock regardless).

I have a lot of threats that the Lunar team needs to nullify at once, and after using skills...  Nash's probability of being able to hit more than two (if that) people with sleep plummets.

EDIT: If you're one that allows people to start with half-full bars...  Ricardo can double Arc Heal to the party, then hit Alex with Evil Crest for that fun SATK Down 36% to help mitigate the damage.

They also need to take care to chip around Blanca Critical phase, because if they mess THAT up (and with the amount of MT going around, I wouldn't be surprised if they got caught in it...), Blanca gets crazygonuts faster.  Pretty much a free Aurora there (and with that much MT going out, I wouldn't be surprised if they throw Blanca into critical for being unable to chip).

That, and Nash's sleep has a good argument for missing 1 of 3 people on turn 2.

[dude789]

You're forgetting about Jessica though, Jessica physical + RDA + Flameria should be enough to kill Yuri, Lucia probably dies outright from RDA and Flameria, and Kyle can finish off Blanca on his turn. Nash may be fast enough that Shania and Ricardo can't lap him with the speed buff and they need to or he just cleans up with more damage or status. Assuming they do both lap him, there's still a lot to be done with reviving and taking putting pressure on the other team, that I just don't think they have the turns to do it.

Which makes me think that this floor needs to be toned down some, two fights with above average speed MT OHKO (Flameria with Wind Cane + RDA and PS4 fight)  is really nasty not to mention the usual PS4 ID shenanigans and brutal FF slog.

Also, sorry about misunderstanding the SDs in CTB that was my bad.

[Magic Fanatic]

You're forgetting about Jessica though, Jessica physical + RDA + Flameria should be enough to kill Yuri, Lucia probably dies outright from RDA and Flameria, and Kyle can finish off Blanca on his turn. Nash may be fast enough that Shania and Ricardo can't lap him with the speed buff and they need to or he just cleans up with more damage or status. Assuming they do both lap him, there's still a lot to be done with reviving and taking putting pressure on the other team, that I just don't think they have the turns to do it.

Which makes me think that this floor needs to be toned down some, two fights with above average speed MT OHKO (Flameria with Wind Cane + RDA and PS4 fight)  is really nasty not to mention the usual PS4 ID shenanigans and brutal FF slog.

It appears I had misjudged Lunar sleep before.  Being hit while slept only increases physical damage, not magical damage.  (Just tested it.  Mia dealt 78 damage with Ice Daggers to the same enemy, both before sleep and after.  Did it three times each to make sure the numbers weren't flukes).

If you're hyping Wind Cane Mia, then I just heal up with Ricardo since Arc Cure will mostly cancel out Flameria, making the rest of the fight less dangerous.  If Dragon Cane Mia...  Then Ricardo pops Eternal Treasure (or better yet, Evil Crest on Alex) to drop RDA's damage by about 30% (36% for the Evil Crest...  And it does enough damage that he's in the threat zone of being killed the next turn) Entrance on Yuri, then Yuri just casts For EveryoneFor Tomorrow to blow up someone and heal my whole party.  Again, Nash must absolutely get Shania, or else she just Doubles Sanlittobell/Shining Zephyr and I get to heal to full anyway.  Shania-Blanca-Lucia-Yuri-Ricardo (or do I need to switch Blanca and Ricardo?) guarantee my way through this fight.

EDIT: Keep in mind, Nash's sleep is 90%, not 100%.  If you go by straight percentages and averages, it's missing one of three people on the second cast (90%x3 = 100% + 100% + 70%, 90%x6 = 100% + 100% + 100% (First three being turn 1) +100% + 100% +40%) Just me forgetting things, nevermind this.

[Talaysen]

EDIT: Keep in mind, Nash's sleep is 90%, not 100%.  If you go by straight percentages and averages, it's missing one of three people on the second cast (90%x3 = 100% + 100% + 70%, 90%x6 = 100% + 100% + 100% (First three being turn 1) +100% + 100% +40%)

That is not how probabilities work.

The chance of a 90% odds succeeding 6 times in a row is 53.1%, which is higher than 50%.  Of course if you're using a 66% threshold then there should be a miss in there somewhere.  But I never understood that logic anyway.

[Clear Tranquil]

Teams Magic and Snowfire vs Dungeon.

Will think more on other teams later.

[SnowFire]

Right.  Should stop being lazy and vote other teams.

Team OK fails.  I don't know Mana Khemia that well, but Rikku's starting HP is shaky at best for awhile after she joins, and the MK fight offers fast damage before the team can really respond.  Which is a shame since Rikku's mixes are the only source of revival.  Team OK is going to be under a pretty heavy threat afterward, and they have to go into fight 5 with the other 4 alive to have something approaching a shot.  Considering the need to constantly cure Purim's status from Zidane's attacks and keep up healing the other boys off...  and Vyse only gets scarier as the fight goes on as his SP piles up...  yeah, that's trouble.  Clearly OK chose poorly by sending his female team into Zidane & his bros dark clutches.  (But yeah, Floor 3 would be a nightmare anyway, since Rikku is still the only reviver, and she just can't blitz the MT floor alone, and the ST floor is suicide with only half a reviver.)

Team Talbot fails.  Not really on board for Atma Weapon hype unless the Flora fight really trashes their MP reserves, but I don't need to be since Dario + Miguel is kind of trouble for the team.  The team just can't blitz bosses at all, Dario splatters somebody once a round, and Miguel splatters people every other round.  If they can stay afloat, it's only barely and they're not really getting damage in.  I guess Dario AI disrespect could turn it around for 'em, but eh.

Team Magic...  hrmm.  The Lunar fight makes my head hurt so I will skip it.  WA4 + LoD fights are dealt with easily enough (no stating Dragoon for LoD).

Team Magic | Yuri 2, Shania, Blanca, Ricardo, Lucia  (Synergy)
[Floor 7b: Did you say "Final Battle?"]
Team Magic vs. FF1 Knight, Cecil, Terra, Cloud, Squall, Zidane and Aeonless Yuna
The problem here is definitely Terra.  Terra's Ultima is ITD so it can't be stat-buffed around and is going to wipe everybody but the Harmonixers; you need something like Shell to stop it, not SpD buffs.  (Also FF6 stat topic is phrased a little oddly.  Pretty sure Morph *does* help Ultima, just it only matters because it basically negates the split damage penalty, so.)

Turn order is something like:
Yuna -> Zidane -> Blanca -> Ricardo-> Yuri = Squall -> Knight -> Terra = Shania -> Lucia = Cloud -> Cecil

I don't buy a Yuna OHKO of Yuri or Shania either...  but.  So Zidane status Ricardo rather than finishing off Shania, sure, to forestall Entrance shenanigans.  However, the deadly threat of Yuna Shells self -> Terra Ultima remains.  Magic has Blanca, Yuri, and maaaaaaaaybe Shania (pretty much a tie there) before Terra blows up the world.  Blanca can heal Ricardo's status, but that doesn't seem like a productive use of time.  I guess he beats down somehow?  Yuri..  he can do damage, but then there's Squall / Knight damage incoming, and Shania will at best coinflip with Terra.  So let's say Yuri buffs, sure.  Knight & Squall kill Blanca.  Shania...  okay, buffed, doubled Sun Flare probably kills Terra, since it's apparently Void.  Thing is, stat topic says AoE.  How big an AoE?  (I didn't really bother with Shania's sidequest.)  It isn't killing Yuna, since she's shelled, importantly.  Lucia does something - Raise Up Blanca perhaps, or maybe status cure Ricardo if she has the right spells.  Cloud smashes Ricardo / Blanca, whoever was refreshed by Lucia.  (Now that I think about it, Blanca probably wants to have hit Cloud to make the Ultima Weapon less dangerous.)  Cecil revives Terra.   So in Round 2, ? people also got hit by Sun Flare, Yuna is buffed, but the SH squad got For Everyone'd and is buffed as well, but Shania is out of stock.  I dunno - Yuna can still make herself super-aggravating for Team Magic, threatening to drop random Holy nukes and Arise'ing people as they die, and the SH team can never ever let Terra get a turn or else basically just lose.  Any comments on how big an AoE Sun Flare is before I continue to think about this?

[dude789]

It's not particularly large. About the same size as some of the other circle spells like Red Gravity. Bigger than the really small circle stuff like Bright Crime, but I want to say it's smaller than stuff like Floral Ray. Probably hit 2-3 people depending on how bunched they are because there are so many opponents, but it's possible to spread everyone out enough so it only hits one or two people at most.  I don't think Shania can double up Sun Flare though, I'm pretty sure that for double attacks you have to use two different moves.

[SnowFire]

Also never mind, checking chat, Morph doesn't affect Ultima after all.  So split damage morphed Ultima isn't as terrifying as hyped and Magic can probably squeak by.  Anyway, sure, I'll vote pass for Magic despite not knowing the PS4 fight that well.

[Monkeyfinger]

Finalized vote:
Pass for magic, snow, OK
Fail for tal

[Dhyerwolf]

Changing my vote to passes on Magic. For magic, looking at I'm convinced on fight 1, and Wren is slow than Ricardo and Blanca to me. Also helped is near null respect for Ultima!

Snowfire abstaining on.