Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 62

[dude789]

Would also need to assume that Aeris isn't given the same treatment in the previous fight as iniative Great Gospel would be difficult to deal with.

[SnowFire]

Definitely no to dude's theory, if you enter a battle with your limit bar full in FF7 your first turn comes at normal speed.  You only get the insta-turn when you gain the limit the first time.  (And if it really was true that Aeris could get an insta-Great Gospel than that fight would be more busted than the Tidus fight and basically impossible to win, as Gilder / Enrique / Raquel / Eiko would all be free to go nuts with multiple OHKOs and MT OHKOs and Turn Breaks.)

As I noted in my second post, I agree that Clarissa needs to get that extra Rob Turn on Red since the Berserk Enrique strategy should give Red a large limit bar.  The problem is that even with that hype, my odds are around 49%, and I rolled a 70-something (where low was good), so I can't really vote for myself in good conscience.  It's actually a bit lower than 49% - I was ignoring the "Jane gets a lucky Instant Death shot" case in my analysis.  It doesn't come up too often, but if it triggers fast enough, say, 20% of the time, that cuts my odds down to like 35-40%, as sometimes Clarissa will screw up on Rob Turns but Jane will randomly ID Celes on her first or second shot or something to save the day.

[SnowFire]

Right, other teams.

Team MICHAEL is simple enough, 2.5 revivers on the Singlet floor is usually safe.  There's Atma Weapon MP hax but eh, think he can swing it.  Pass.

**

Team Sage | Demi, Toadstool, Edgar(Speed?) Robo, Brey
[Floor 4: Diff'rent Strokes]
Team Sage vs. Yumei, Badrach, Aelia, Lorenta and Grey

I don't understand some of the anti-Sage votes.  The other fights are all cut & dry status-out victories - FFT can't really block both Sleep and Confuse, SO3/SO2 can't block Confuse, the other fights are too slow, so don't know if people are forgetting Speed? or what.  This is the only fight where things might go wrong.  Note that thank to Speed?, Toadstool is a bit below average speed, so even if you only let VP1 block one status at a time with the all-blockers, it shouldn't matter.  So...  can Edgar / Brey / Demi blitz both mages before Great Magic destroys everyone?  While Flash is actually okay on damage at this point (~.30-.35 PCHP?), I kinda doubt it.  Pretty sure Brey takes a damage hit to go MT, I believe Demi does as well.  Lorenta & Yumei have ~.81 PCHP according to the topic.  I normally might be willing to tiebreak for the player, but since Sage's Floor 3 was super-shaky and I probably should have voted a fail there, inclined to tiebreak against.  I'll change my vote if PS4 people say that Demi's midgame MT damage is solid enough to finish the mage wipe, though.  Fail, provisionally.

**

Team Bardiche | Billy, Sasarai (Resourceless), Sacred Slayer, Eiko, FF1 Monk, Nall
[Floor 3b: Multiply]
**All attacks, regardless of original ability, hit either all enemies or all allies for this floor.

Right.  So Sacred Slayer getting a turn is a win for Bardiche.  Problem is that the team is slow, which is a chancy place to be for the MT floor.

Team Bard vs. Marcus, Seth and Titania
Uh.  This could very easily be a wipe considering how slow Bardiche's team is.  Eiko is dead average speed.  Marcus / Seth are below average AS, but all three have good threat range, leading to two different ways of breaking the average speed tie.  Let's be nice to Bardiche and assume Eiko hustles out the FE crew and casts Protect.  That is needed since 3 people spamming averagish damage would KO everybody.

Team Bard vs. FF1 White Wizard, FFT Priest, FF5 White Mage, FF3DS White Mage and FFX-2 White Mage

FFT Priest: Fast, Staff thwack is ~.20 PCHP damage?  No Holy hype from me, charge times.
FF1 WM: 100% Speed, ~.30 PCHP damage
FFX-2WM: 98% Speed, no damage, but Reflect hax, maybe?  (Or heal Monk's damage)
FF5 WM: 95% Speed, ~.65 PCHP damage
FF3DSWM: 90% Speed, terrible damage, but can cast Reflect on Bard's team

Okay, LGTM.  Eiko can heal in time to survive FF5 WM's Holy.  After that, maybe FF3DS Relect is enemy targetable, and maybe it'll stop Sacred Slayer hax, but eh, the team might just kill the WM crew in response.  If they reflect themselves, Monk beatdown, if they don't, Sasarai + SS turn hax, so no stalling.

Team Bard vs. Alma, Kresnik, Ricardo and Marco (RH)
SS turn hax help but Alma will already have MBarrier up, and I see MBarrier as stacking with Ricardo's EternalTreasure (SH buffs stack with other stuff in-game, and it's a buff vs. a status effect).  Marco's buffs probably won't stack, but Sleep is a threat that at least waste's Eiko's turn (I assume she can immune it) to tap it off.  The real problem is MBarrier's Reraise meaning the team must kill everyone promptly lest everyone get back up after Sasarai's spells are gone.  Eiko's Mini isn't even that helpful here, Marco can immune it and get rid of it.  Just...  even with SS spamming Turn Shift and Monk taking crazy turns, they have to entirely KO the team before Marco's healing resets the damage, and they'll be buffed to all hell.  Does anybody on this team have Dispel?  Because that's what they need to smash through, especially with Ricardo able to recharge Alma's MP.

Team Bard vs. Boss Magus and Dalton
Not a problem if they make it this far.

*Full Heal
Team Bard vs. Lady Harken (ACF) and Zeikfried (ACF)
Depends on ID resistance I guess.

Anyway, see above query, I'll switch my vote on Bard if he does have dispel after all.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Demi does indeed have one shot of very good MT damage at this point, it should solidly 2HKO (it's not far from it endgame).

In a rare instance of voting for me, Pass to team Sage. I've looked at the arguments and there are a couple of things I feel very strongly about that make this very easy:

(a) VP1 blocking confuse is stupid. That status doesn't exist in VP1, nor does anything remotely like it. You have to hype the anti-status charm getting it, which is extra bad because the charm itself is on such shaky grounds, yay breakable accessories in a game where money is finite.
(b) I'm an FF4o voter, which makes these guys much worse on status accuracy due to being scaled from midgame, as well as durability in the twins' case. Plus, Medic Power means trying to status out Team Sage is a shaky proposition, to boot.

Now back to being a member of Nyarlathotep's peanut gallery.

[Nephrite]

Demi does indeed have one shot of very good MT damage at this point, it should solidly 2HKO (it's not far from it endgame).

In a rare instance of voting for me, Pass to team Sage. I've looked at the arguments and there are a couple of things I feel very strongly about that make this very easy:

(a) VP1 blocking confuse is stupid. That status doesn't exist in VP1, nor does anything remotely like it. You have to hype the anti-status charm getting it, which is extra bad because the charm itself is on such shaky grounds, yay breakable accessories in a game where money is finite.
(b) I'm an FF4o voter, which makes these guys much worse on status accuracy due to being scaled from midgame, as well as durability in the twins' case. Plus, Medic Power means trying to status out Team Sage is a shaky proposition, to boot.

Now back to being a member of Nyarlathotep's peanut gallery.

(make a dungeon team)

[Dark Holy Elf]

That sounds like effort.

[Random Consonant]

Note that thank to Speed?, Toadstool is a bit below average speed

This is true, past turn 1.  On turn 1 however Toadstool is still above average speed, unless you take a low view of SDs (as in, below 15% or thereabouts).

[SnowFire]

I'll change my vote to pass for Team Sage in light of DHE's comment about Demi's damage.

(Side note, been over a zillion times already, it's a classic interp split, but while you can make a resources based argument to forbid the all-blocker from VP1, the fact that nothing like confuse exists in VP1 is a point in favor of it being blocked to me.  If there was a confuse-esque status in VP1 that somehow beat an all-blocker, that'd be a good argument for Noiseblaster > VP1, but there isn't.  If you only let a game block statuses in them, then obscura-statuses not in other games become bizzarely unstoppable in a way they usually aren't in their home games.)

[Dark Holy Elf]

Well, it's not like Confuse is some bizarro obscure status. It has to run into immunities commonly enough in the DL... quite apart from most bosses, there are plenty of casts with confuse blockers. blah blah classic interp split yes, but I strongly oppose extending confuse immunity to casts who don't even have a confusion status to block.

The solution for bizarro obscure statuses is to make them check against more common immunities.