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Author Topic: RPGDL 2012 Season 1, Week 5: Finals and DL Rankings  (Read 3186 times)

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 1, Week 5: Finals and DL Rankings
« Reply #25 on: May 24, 2012, 03:56:51 AM »
The main difference would be that Yuna's speed is clearly defined whereas Repede is an ARPG speed interpretation headache mess. I can't think of any High Godlike more lame than one whose matches are decided by comparing opponents' speed to an arbitrary number which each individual voter must make up.

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dude789

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Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 1, Week 5: Finals and DL Rankings
« Reply #26 on: May 24, 2012, 01:43:46 PM »
Breath of Death VII: The Beginning (7/13) Rank
Brigandine (7/13) Abstain
Legend of Legaia (8/13) Rank
Lufia and the Fortress of Doom (7/13) Rank
Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy (7/13) Rank
Mega Man X: Command Mission (7/13) Abstain
Persona (7/13) Don't Rank
Phantasy Star (8/13) Rank
Soul Nomad & The World Eaters (7/13) Rank
Suikoden Tierkreis (7/13) Don't Rank
Tales of Eternia (7/13) Abstain
Tales of Phantasia (7/13) Rank
Tales of Vesperia (7/13) Rank
Vandal-Hearts (8/13) Abstain
Xenosaga: Also Sprach Zarathustra (8/13) Abstain

Final Fantasy: Mystic Quest Played Rank
Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door Played Abstain
Super Robot Taisen OG Saga: Endless Frontier Not Played Abstain


Heavy

Legretta (Tales of the Abyss
) vs Elincia (Fire Emblem Series)

Light

Kahn (Breath of Fire IV) vs Locke Cole (Final Fantasy VI)

Luther Lansfeld

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Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 1, Week 5: Finals and DL Rankings
« Reply #27 on: May 24, 2012, 02:36:00 PM »
The Bubble: Rank or Don't Rank!

Breath of Death VII: The Beginning (7/13)- Abstain.
Brigandine (7/13)- Don't rank.
Legend of Legaia (8/13)- Don't rank
Lufia and the Fortress of Doom (7/13)- Don't rank.
Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy (7/13)- Rank.
Mega Man X: Command Mission (7/13)- Rank.
Persona (7/13)- Don't rank.
Phantasy Star (8/13)- Don't rank.
Soul Nomad & The World Eaters (7/13)- Rank.
Suikoden Tierkreis (7/13)- Rank.
Tales of Eternia (7/13)- Don't rank.
Tales of Phantasia (7/13)- Don't rank.
Tales of Vesperia (7/13)- Don't rank.
Vandal-Hearts (8/13)- Don't rank.
Xenosaga: Also Sprach Zarathustra (8/13)- Rank.

I basically voted for new games and against old games aside from ToV. I think ARPGs are kind of stupid in the DL and one with borderline numbers should lean toward being out.

Final Fantasy: Mystic Quest- No.
Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door- No.
Super Robot Taisen OG Saga: Endless Frontier- No.

Finals!

Godlike

Charlton Blunt (Wild ARMs XF) vs Apocrypha (Radiant Historia)

Heavy

Legretta (Tales of the Abyss) vs Elincia (Fire Emblem Series)

Middle

Hope Estheim (Final Fantasy XIII) vs. Syphide (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria)- Whoever nommed Sylphide needs to be punched in the face.

Light

Kahn (Breath of Fire IV) vs Locke Cole (Final Fantasy VI)

Results Sunday.  Or so.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2012, 02:37:50 PM by Ciato »
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SnowFire

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Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 1, Week 5: Finals and DL Rankings
« Reply #28 on: May 25, 2012, 01:23:30 AM »
Changed my mind on Elincia / Legretta yet again.  Good point that ARPG bosses actually are stunnable, so even if Elincia doesn't kill Legretta with 8x hits due to defense hype, she surely sneaks a Stun somewhere in there.

I'm pretty sure that Repede *was* let loose in Futurama once and he won everything.  Regardless, he's a dueler that entirely depends upon ARPG speed hype.  (For me, compare the length of time for Repede to go invincible with that for Rita to cast a spell and actually inflict damage (even with Blah Blah Blah hype).  Repede goes invincible *fast*.).  And Yuna is not exactly a normal sample to compare against anyway; she was a perfectly respectable dueler in a Bluelike tournament held a long while back who had good arguments for wins against a number of opponents.

DjinnAndTonic

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Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 1, Week 5: Finals and DL Rankings
« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2012, 06:07:21 AM »
Apocrypha
Ellincia
Hope
Kahn

Tide

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Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 1, Week 5: Finals and DL Rankings
« Reply #30 on: May 25, 2012, 07:29:07 AM »
Heavy

Legretta (Tales of the Abyss) vs Elincia (Fire Emblem Series) - If you factor in attack speed/movement considerations at all, this isn't even a contest. Legretta's big damage moves have so much start up you probably have to be half sleeping to get hit by it. And since Elincia is extremely mobile in-game and Legretta doesn't get access to her fastest damaging attack until losing around 50% of her HP...


Middle
Hope Estheim (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Syphide (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) - Kneejerk at Lightswordsman in VP2 and Hope not sucking ass.

Game list later. Maybe.
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Cmdr_King

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Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 1, Week 5: Finals and DL Rankings
« Reply #31 on: May 25, 2012, 09:16:22 AM »
Okay, finally tallied all the votes properly.  Here's the current status of the games being voted on.

Brigandine (9/16) (djinn, ciato, elfboy, snow, pyro, Super, Neph, random, dhyer, )
Legend of Legaia (11/16) (djinn, dude, reiska, tal, snow, twil, pyro, Super, Neph, dhyer, random,  )
Lufia and the Fortress of Doom (10/16) (dude, snow, reiska, twil, pyro, tal, Super, Neph, dhyer, random, )
Mega Man X: Command Mission (9/16) (ck, ciato, snow, dude, elfboy, tal, Super, Neph, dhyer, )
Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy (8/16) (tal, ck, dhyer, pyro, elfboy, dude, ciato, snow,  )
Persona (8/16) (djinn, tal, Super, Neph, random, dude, dhyer, reiska, )
Phantasy Star (10/16) (djinn, tal, Super, snow, pyro, Neph, random, dhyer, dude, reiska, )
Soul Nomad & The World Eaters (9/16) (djinn, pyro, snow, ck, ciato, tal, dhyer, dude, Super, )
Tales of Eternia (9/16) (tal, Super, Neph, random, pyro, ck, snow, djinn, dhyer,  )
Tales of Phantasia (9/16) (Neph, random, twil, djinn, ck, pyro, snow, dude, dhyer, )
Vandal-Hearts (11/16) (ciato, elfboy, tal, Super, djinn, pyro, Neph, snow, random, reiska, dhyer,  )
Tales of Vesperia (7/16) (tal, Super, djinn, dude, ck, pyro, dhyer, )
Xenosaga: Also Sprach Zarathustra (11/16) (djinn, snow, snowfire, dhyer, ciato, ck, pyro, tal, elfboy,  Super, Neph, )
Suikoden Tierkreis (8/16) (tal, random, twil, dude, elfboy, djinn, ck, dhyer, )
Breath of Death VII: The Beginning (7/16) (tal, snow, dude, Super, ck, pyro, random, )


Of note, Mana Khemia 2, Persona, Tales of Vesperia, Suikoden Tierkreis, and Breath of Death VII are no longer eligible for ranking at this time.  Note that 11/16 is equal to about half a dozen ranked games, and more than two or three of them, so if voting pool was a concern for Legend of Legaia, Vandal-Hearts, or Xenosaga 3, it was merely a quirk of the older data and doesn't reflect their actual ability to draw.

More personally, I'd like to argue in favor of Xenosaga 3 here.  As much as people don't like the game, that's really only relevant when it comes to drawing in more players... but at 11 players, with average vote totals just under 20, that's really not a legit concern.  And considering there's not a huge cast here, just new, interesting alternate forms for ranked PCs, a temp people seem to enjoy, and one or two bosses I suspect people won't nom much, I really don't see any advantage to not ranking the game, aside from "rarr this game sucks and I hate it *arm cross*" which... I'm not sure how not ranking it relates to some sort of satisfaction against the game.
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 1, Week 5: Finals and DL Rankings
« Reply #32 on: May 25, 2012, 02:02:22 PM »
Honestly, my main opposition to XS3 would be that it introduces new forms for the Xenosaga PCs thus creating votesplit for quite a few of them who change significantly between 1 and 3, and I believe there are still quite a few people who have played one but not the other although feel free to correct me.

That said this isn't a huge problem, but then, the merits of ranking XS3 itself are suspect. Allen is cool, and I guess it's nice to have a form for Jin which isn't a total bore, but that's about it.

Pretty neutral overall, will continue to abstain probably.

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Nephrite

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Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 1, Week 5: Finals and DL Rankings
« Reply #33 on: May 25, 2012, 03:12:52 PM »
Honestly, as much as you're trying to keep this as democratic as possible, I feel like at this point it's -your- tournament rather than -our- tournament, so you should like you can do whatever you want that other people will enjoy.

I understand the concept of keeping things the way they used to be and appreciate your efforts in giving us a voice in that, but at the same time this isn't the same tournament that used to be run on the website; you aren't fishing for new people at this point, at least in my opinion.

So basically I say just do what feels good.

DjinnAndTonic

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Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 1, Week 5: Finals and DL Rankings
« Reply #34 on: May 25, 2012, 03:42:51 PM »
You could even do things like offer up small ranking packs for some of the large-cast games. Suiko Tierkreis and FE11SD would be a lot more palatable with only 3 or 5 ranks. Similarly, banning Repede and Revya would help out ToV and SN.

Okay, finally tallied all the votes properly.  Here's the current status of the games being voted on.

Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy (8/16) (tal, ck, dhyer, pyro, elfboy, dude, ciato, snow,  )

Of note, Mana Khemia 2, Persona, Tales of Vesperia, Suikoden Tierkreis, and Breath of Death VII are no longer eligible for ranking at this time.

I notice that I'm not included in MK2's numbers. I haven't played it much yet, but I feel like I can vote on it well enough to want it ranked. (Just not voting on its bosses.)

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 1, Week 5: Finals and DL Rankings
« Reply #35 on: May 25, 2012, 03:59:15 PM »
I'd be pretty cool with, say, giving berths to the specific alternate forms (which you've done in some futuramas with specific characters like Elincia), I guess, but the forceps approach isn't very fun in general (I've been tempted to vote on FE9 Elincia for the matches you've done before, for instance. But that ends up as borderline antivoting, and it kinda sucks for everyone). For instance, I kinda like XS3 Jr. and MOMO (who are, besides Jin, the people who benefit from XS3 the most) in the DL, but otherwise, yeah.   
« Last Edit: May 25, 2012, 07:26:16 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Cmdr_King

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Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 1, Week 5: Finals and DL Rankings
« Reply #36 on: May 25, 2012, 06:43:02 PM »
Honestly, my main opposition to XS3 would be that it introduces new forms for the Xenosaga PCs thus creating votesplit for quite a few of them who change significantly between 1 and 3, and I believe there are still quite a few people who have played one but not the other although feel free to correct me.


Xenosaga: Der Wille Zur Macht (11/16) (ciato, tal, elfboy, snow, dhyer, pyro, snowfire, djinn, Super, ck, Neph, )
Xenosaga: Jenseits von Gut und Bose (12/16) (ciato, dude, tal, snow, dhyer, pyro, snowfire, elfboy, djinn, ck, Super, Neph, )
Xenosaga: Also Sprach Zarathustra (11/16) (djinn, snow, snowfire, dhyer, ciato, ck, pyro, tal, elfboy,  Super, Neph, )

As it turns out, not so much!  These numbers aren't perfectly representative of course (there's 18 voters in this topic right now, none of whom are one of the people in the data), but it's a reasonably close match.  I was kinda surprised too.

Djinn: I made it general policy to count votes of 'partial' as a non-player of the game, since generally it's hard to tell whether they mean 'I got far enough to know how the system works and know if it's a good ranking fit' or 'I got far enough to vote but didn't technically beat it', since one means they can vote on the game and one does not.  Since you're clarifying... well, remember that because rankings are very inclusive, people can nom bosses as much as they can nom PCs.  But yeah, I can edit you in as a player. 

Neph: Eh, it wouldn't be a DL without heavy, sometimes annoying democracy.

Anyway, now that I'm not crosseyed from looking at numbers, time to tweak the list to get everything categorized right and post the full rank list.
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Dhyerwolf

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Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 1, Week 5: Finals and DL Rankings
« Reply #37 on: May 26, 2012, 03:51:37 AM »
For instance, I kinda like XS3 Jr. and MOMO (who are, besides Jin, the people who benefit from XS3 the most) in the DL, but otherwise, yeah.

chaos probably jumps a full ranking 1 between the two games, so his improvement is practically the same level of Jin's I think.

XS 3...is pretty widely hated as a duelling game. The best people generally feel towards it is "abstain." Sure, people can vote on it, but given the level of hatred, that's not really even a positive. Nothing to really stop people from voting on XS 3 forms now.
...into the nightfall.

Cmdr_King

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Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 1, Week 5: Finals and DL Rankings
« Reply #38 on: May 26, 2012, 04:27:20 AM »
Quote
Nothing to really stop people from voting on XS 3 forms now.

Experience has taught me this is categorically false.
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<NotMiki> I mean, we're talking life vs. liberty, with the pursuit of happiness providing color commentary.

Dhyerwolf

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Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 1, Week 5: Finals and DL Rankings
« Reply #39 on: May 26, 2012, 09:44:19 AM »
Oh, most people may not, but nothing to stop people who are so inclined (like say OK...when he voted on some definable rubric).
...into the nightfall.

MalcolmMasher

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Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 1, Week 5: Finals and DL Rankings
« Reply #40 on: May 27, 2012, 04:23:03 AM »
Light

Kahn (Breath of Fire IV) vs Locke Cole (Final Fantasy VI)

I begin to suspect that a turn 2 OHKO off good speed does not belong in Light.


The Bubble: Rank or Don't Rank!

Breath of Death VII: The Beginning (7/13) - Abstain
Brigandine (7/13) - Abstain
Legend of Legaia (8/13) - Abstain
Lufia and the Fortress of Doom (7/13) - Don't rank
Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy (7/13) - Abstain
Mega Man X: Command Mission (7/13) - Rank
Persona (7/13) - Abstain
Phantasy Star (8/13) - Rank
Soul Nomad & The World Eaters (7/13) - Abstain
Suikoden Tierkreis (7/13) - Abstain
Tales of Eternia (7/13) - Abstain
Tales of Phantasia (7/13) - Abstain
Tales of Vesperia (7/13) - Abstain
Vandal-Hearts (8/13) - Abstain
Xenosaga: Also Sprach Zarathustra (8/13) - Abstain

A straightforward played = rank and otherwise abstain (equivalent to don't rank? Fair enough!) with the exception of Lufia 1. I've played it, but the only memorable characters have forms in other games, so...

Other Ranking Shenanigans!

Final Fantasy: Mystic Quest - Played, rank. I do wish Life didn't function as instant death, though, it'll make the PCs rather samey.
Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door - Played, rank. What's not to like?
Super Robot Taisen OG Saga: Endless Frontier - Not played, don't rank.



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Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 1, Week 5: Finals and DL Rankings
« Reply #41 on: May 27, 2012, 03:53:09 PM »
Heavy

Legretta (Tales of the Abyss) vs Elincia (Fire Emblem Series): Kneejerking into Elincia getting Stun to get past Legretta's limit phase.

Middle

Hope Estheim (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Syphide (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria): Worst case scenario, its a stall war with the two constantly healing.  One problem is, Hope has a Limit, Syphide does not.

Light

Kahn (Breath of Fire IV) vs Locke Cole (Final Fantasy VI): Focus -> Smite.
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
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[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 1, Week 5: Finals and DL Rankings
« Reply #42 on: May 27, 2012, 09:46:24 PM »
For instance, I kinda like XS3 Jr. and MOMO (who are, besides Jin, the people who benefit from XS3 the most) in the DL, but otherwise, yeah.

chaos probably jumps a full ranking 1 between the two games, so his improvement is practically the same level of Jin's I think.

Actually, closer to two - Light to Heavy woohoo. I just try very hard to pretend chaos doesn't exist.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

SnowFire

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Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 1, Week 5: Finals and DL Rankings
« Reply #43 on: May 28, 2012, 02:16:21 AM »
Yeah XS3 MOMO is an interesting dueler who also is strong in-game (even if the reason doesn't exactly translate, since MOMO is hitting elemental weakness all the time which the game is nice enough to show you with the right accessories, while in the DL she cheeses with phys immunity instead).  XS3 chaos is fairly low tier in-game who ends up a ba-roken status demon in the DL which is rarely much fun.  (Who exactly immunes XS3 Curse?  Anyone?  Buehler?)

Cmdr_King

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Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 1, Week 5: Finals and DL Rankings
« Reply #44 on: May 28, 2012, 03:38:10 AM »
Results.  Week 5 first, rankings to come.

Godlike

Charlton Blunt (Wild ARMs XF) vs Apocrypha (Radiant Historia)- iiiiiii

Heavy

Legretta (Tales of the Abyss)- iiii vs Elincia (Fire Emblem Series)- iiiiiiii

Middle

Hope Estheim (Final Fantasy XIII)- iiiiiiii vs Syphide (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria)- ii

Light

Kahn (Breath of Fire IV)- iiiiiiiiiiiii vs Locke Cole (Final Fantasy VI)- i


Everyone together!   Apocrypha!  Elincia!  Hope!  Kahn!

Thanks you and goodnight

(PS not really I still have rankings to tabulate~)
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<NotMiki> I mean, we're talking life vs. liberty, with the pursuit of happiness providing color commentary.

Cmdr_King

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Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 1, Week 5: Finals and DL Rankings
« Reply #45 on: May 28, 2012, 04:18:33 AM »
Voters: Yoshi, Super, Neph, Random, Dhyer, CK, snowfire, Tal, OK, Djinn, Snow, Pyro, Elfboy, Lance, monkey, dude, ciato, tide, malcom, Meeple,

20 voters, thus 11 votes required to support ranking.

Brigandine   Rank: iiiiiii   Go Away: iii
Legend of Legaia  Rank: iiiiiiiii   Go Away: iii
Lufia and the Fortress of Doom  Rank: iiiiiiiiii   Go Away: iiiii
Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy  Rank: iiiiiiiii    Go Away: i
Mega Man X: Command Mission  Rank: iiiiiiiiii   Go Away: i
Phantasy Star  Rank: iiiiii   Go Away: iiiiii
Soul Nomad & The World Eaters  Rank: iiiiiiii    Go Away: ii
Tales of Eternia  Rank: ii i   Go Away: iiiiiiii
Tales of Phantasia  Rank: iiiiii   Go Away: iiiiii
Vandal-Hearts  Rank: iiiii   Go Away: iiiiii
Xenosaga: Also Sprach Zarathustra  Rank:  iiiiiii   Go Away: iiii


Final Fantasy: Mystic Quest  Played: Super, Neph, Random, Tal, Snow, dude, malcom Rank: iiiiiiii   Go Away: iiiii
Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door Played: random, CK, Tal, dude, malcom   Rank: iiii   Go Away: iiiiiiiiii
Super Robot Taisen OG Saga: Endless Frontier Played: Neph, random, Snow, elfboy,   Rank: iiiiii   Go Away: iiiii

I hadn't fully decided how to judge this exactly, but I've worked it out thusly.

1) A game requires more than 50% of voters to support it's ranking to be included in the DL.
2) Votes of Don't Rank, unless prefaced with some other commentary, were treated as a request to move the game into the Rejected catagory.
3) For a game to be considered Rejected, it must have a number of Don't Rank/Reject votes greater than or equal to it's number of Rank votes.

If my math is accurate, we have not ranked any games this season.  These games will be shuffled into a Backburner catagory, where they will be held until they can gather more players/rank support.

Additionally,  Phantasy Star, Tales of Eternia, Tales of Phantasia, and Vandal-Hearts have been Rejected.

I'm debating the merits of having a certain level of playership bring an automatic bid into the Rankings with it, assuming the game hasn't been rejected for reasons besides players/interest.  75% of available voters, which right now stands at 12, seems like a good cutoff.  Opinions welcomed here.

Thanks for voting, see you very soon in an opinion topic/it's DLcon and I'm not running the next tourney during that.

Edit: Whoops, Persona wasn't eligible for ranking, and I didn't take the data for the other games that were downgraded.  Only fair to subtract it.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2012, 04:24:09 AM by Cmdr_King »
CK: She is the female you
Snow: Speaking of Sluts!

<NotMiki> I mean, we're talking life vs. liberty, with the pursuit of happiness providing color commentary.