Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 77

[Nephrite]

"Hmm... I see you're getting by so far, I wonder if the others will be able to keep up?"


Link to the Dungeon Wiki!

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**Full Heals reset limit and other types of gauges when teams pass through them.

Team Jo'ou | Zerase (Resourceless), Alys, White Rose, Billy, FFT Priest
Floor 3b: Multiply
**All attacks, regardless of original ability, hit either all enemies or all allies for this floor.
Team Jo'ou vs. Raquel (WA4), Rudy (WA1) and Brad (WA2)
Team Jo'ou vs. FF1 White Wizard, FFT Priest, FF5 White Mage, FF3DS White Mage and FFX-2 White Mage
Team Jo'ou vs. Alma, Kresnik, Ricardo and Marco (RH)
Team Jo'ou vs. Boss Magus and Dalton
*Full Heal
Team Jo'ou vs. Lady Harken (ACF) and Zeikfried (ACF)

Team dude | Cecilia, Ramza, Worker 8 (Firefly), Kyra, Ditto
[Ramza: Ninja, Item, Attack UP, Blade Grasp]
Floor 7a: The Elemental Ties that Bind
Team dude vs. Sasarai, Land Umber (SD3) and Scarmiglione-Z (FF4DS)
Team dude vs. Barbariccia, S2 Luc, Tiamat (FF1) and Kanji
Team dude vs. Kary, Lucca, Yukiko, Ho-oh and Estella
Team dude vs. Suicune, Marle, Lenus, Chris and Cagnazzo (FF4DS)
Team dude vs. Ashera, Chaos and Malice Gilbert

Team Piggyman | Athos, Ramza, Worker 8, Adray, Moulder, Nall (Vantage Sealstone)
[Floor 2: Magical Mystery]
[Ramza: Wizard, Item, Auto Potion] [Athos: Eclipse, Heal Staff]
Team Piggy vs. FFT Wizard, FF1 Black Wizard and Vivi
Team Piggy vs. Nina1, Nina2 and Nina3
Team Piggy vs. Lemina, Mia, Jessica and Luna
Team Piggy vs. Sarah (S3), Cleo and Bernadette
Team Piggy vs. PC Magus and Nergal


Team Tide | Ramza/Cecilia/Citan(Body Charge)/RAP MASTER SEIFER/Raynie
[Ramza: Wizard/Item/Auto Potion]
Floor 2a: Adventuring (Earlygame)
Team Tide vs. Flay and Nikki
Team Tide vs. Jack(WA:ACF) and Rudy(WAo1)
Team Tide vs. Opera, Ernest and Celine
Team Tide vs. Killey (S2) and Lorelai (S5)
Team Tide vs. Sothe (FE9), Karn, Edward and Vyse

Resourceless - One character's spells and abilities are now free but you may not use the same ability more than once a fight. This does not apply to moves that drain all resources.

Firefly - The first offensive skill of each enemy will be redirected at the bearer of this sealstone. Multitarget attacks will focus on the bearer only. (E.g. MT Attack would hit 5 times in a 5 person party.))

Vantage - Counterattack abilities activate BEFORE being attacked. Also increases the chance of any counter attack activation skill to 100%. This only affects allies.

Body Charge - Increases the health, damage and effective speed of a character by 1.3x and decreases damage to them to .7x, but increases the cost of the character by 1.5x (rounded to nearest half point, .5s are 1.0s).

[superaielman]

Team Jo'ou vs. Raquel (WA4), Rudy (WA1) and Brad (WA2)- Zerase on the MT floor. Pain.
Team Jo'ou vs. FF1 White Wizard, FFT Priest, FF5 White Mage, FF3DS White Mage and FFX-2 White Mage- See above. I don't think any of them beat Zerase to the punch. WR can also throw status into the mix.
Team Jo'ou vs. Alma, Kresnik, Ricardo and Marco (RH)- Kneejerk. I don't think they can stop Zerase from getting a turn. Even with MBarrier, ouch. Alys+WR can add in punishment as well.
Team Jo'ou vs. Boss Magus and Dalton-  I don't think I see Magus's barrier stopping Zerase's magic, which is real bad.  Billy can also toss out a Goddess Call and buld up his AP for a fairly nasty combo.
*Full Heal
Team Jo'ou vs. Lady Harken (ACF) and Zeikfried (ACF)- Harken shouldn't OHKO Zerase. That is likely fight, with Glass Shield/Priest healing and revival in play.

Team Piggy passes.

[Nephrite]

Whoops, made a mistake for Piggy's floor and corrected it. (don't think that changes Super's vote tho)

[Nephrite]

Added Tide's floor.

[superaielman]

Yeah, Piggy should cruise. Vantage with his team is deadly, and the floor has serious problems with W8 alone.

Team Tide | Ramza/Cecilia/Citan(Body Charge)/RAP MASTER SEIFER/Raynie
[Ramza: Wizard/Item/Auto Potion]
Floor 2a: Adventuring (Earlygame)
Team Tide vs. Flay and Nikki- Citan+Ramza are solid offense at this point. Flay explodes before he gets a turn.
eam Tide vs. Jack(WA:ACF) and Rudy(WAo1)- Rudy isn't a factor, Jack gets blitzed.
Team Tide vs. Opera, Ernest and Celene
Team Tide vs. Killey (S2) and Lorelai (S5)- Ramza gets wiped by a single explode.  His magic durability is really not good at this point.  Cecilia may well get blitzed out as well. Which is bad, as the two revivers are gone. Citan heals the team up (Seifer/Citan/Raynie should make it to the boss), they exterminate from there.
Team Tide vs. Sothe (FE9), Karn, Edward and Vyse- Citan OHKOs Edward (He has to do this to avoid getting hit with some annoying status).  Seifer can't really be chipped, so they ignore him and try to knock out Raynie... which if they do, Vyse has to physical instead of saving SP for Cutlass Fury. Seifer hits Vyse. A follow up Citan attack should kill Vyse, which means the fight is controllable from there.

Tide passes, but barely. Close run thing.

Team dude | Cecilia, Ramza, Worker 8 (Firefly), Kyra, Ditto
[Ramza: Ninja, Item, Attack UP, Blade Grasp]
Floor 7a: The Elemental Ties that Bind
Team dude vs. Sasarai, Land Umber (SD3) and Scarmiglione-Z (FF4DS)- Sas takes hits like a third grader. Ramza+Kyra should wipe him out. Rest of the fight is easy enough.
Team dude vs. Barbariccia, S2 Luc, Tiamat (FF1) and Kanji- Wind of sleep is seriously goddamn annoying, and S2 Luc is *fast*. Neph said firefly doesn't hit it and *checks S2 topic* Oh right, WoS was not good until S3 .Never mind. Kanji eats  prison and Luc gets OHKOed by Ramza.
Team dude vs. Kary, Lucca, Yukiko, Ho-oh and Estella- Ramza should kill off Yukiko in a hit.  Ho-Oh is fast but can't really kill anyone off. He should attack anyway to draw the firefly effect out. Kyra should Telele to prevent Cecilia from getting slaughtered by Kary's physical. Estella vaporizes Ramza with Final Flame. Kary kills Ditto, since he makes my goddamn head hurt and I don't want to him about him that much.Cecilia knocks out Ho-Oh with Prison. Flare damages the entire team. (And kills Ditto extra dead just in case). Worker should Crush Estella.  Kyra uses Tandle, which should finish off Estella/Ho-Oh. Kary shouldn't be able to OHKO Cecilia post buffs, which means Cecilia revives Ramza and then finishes wiping out the floor.
Team dude vs. Suicune, Marle, Lenus, Chris and Cagnazzo (FF4DS)- Ramza goes first and promptly kills Marle. Chris can't really SL with how the team is set up, so she revives Marle. Suicune can't damage Cecilia or Worker, so he smites Ramza. Kyra should use Warla. Cecilia Prisons Marle (Her hasting is not good). Lenus is not really a threat at high HP and is kind of slow to boot. Worker should physical Marle, killing her. Cagnazzo+Lenus are strictly physical on turn one, which means Ramza has a good chance to survive. Worker still has the firefly effect to blow as well! So Ramza is getting that second turn regardless. Ramza heals himself. Chris can't revive any more, so she... um. Wow. Can't really do much. She can try to kill Ramza, but Blade Grasp offsets that.  At this point, it's a matter of Prisoning/healing/smashing past the limit boss. They should manage that just fine.

Note: Gen 2 Suicune is a different ballgame here, as his damage edge might make a difference.  I vote on gen 3.

Team dude vs. Ashera, Chaos and Malice Gilbert- Abstain, will have to look up Ashera.

[dude789]

Super, Firefly draws one attack from each opponent not just the first attack from the enemy team. So for example if Worker survives Ho-oh's attack then Kary will have to target Worker first instead of Ceci or Ditto if Worker is still alive.

[Random Consonant]

Floor 2 teams pass.  Piggy has W8 against a floor full of mages and support that isn't actively trying to kill him and Tide gets by on Body Charge Citan still being kind of holy fuck what at this point, doubting the last fight succeeds at knocking out Raynie at any rate, with helps matters.

Tenative fail for team dude, lack of good MT damage or consistant access to MT healing is just not good on the last fight, and I think he stands a real risk of losing both his revivers in one go.

[ThePiggyman]

My team passes without much trouble. Worth noting, Athos has Bolting and Purge now, e.g. actual damage, which is certainly going to come in handy. Nonetheless, my team is magically durable, except for Ramza, but Auto-Potion helps there; Vantage Auto-Potion means that, despite not healing himself from the first blow, he can survive a potentially fatal attack by using a Potion before the attack actually connects. Most importantly, though, the entire floor has trouble hurting Worker 8, and if they attack him with regular physicals, they are also getting Countered before they even attack. The Magus/Nergal fight shouldn't be a problem either, I don't think. I forget whether or not Magus had physicals, but at worst, Nergal literally can't damage Worker 8.

Team Tide likely passes as well. I'm gonna go ahead and do the unthinkable and hype SEIFER. If Killey goes for his big MT damage, then Seifer is without a doubt in limit range for No Mercy. In fact, he can probably be healed a little and still be in limit range, which will help in the following fight as well.

I'm going to abstain for now on Team Jo'ou, as I don't know half the floor. CT and White Mage battles are the only ones I really know anything about.

Going to go for a fail for team dude. Ashera can't be handled with strong support like that. Warla isn't enough, unfortunately.

[dude789]

Team dude | Cecilia, Ramza, Worker 8 (Firefly), Kyra, Ditto
[Ramza: Ninja, Item, Attack UP, Blade Grasp]
Floor 7a: The Elemental Ties that Bind
Team dude vs. Sasarai, Land Umber (SD3) and Scarmiglione-Z (FF4DS): Ramza smashes Sasarai, Land Umber and Scarm take out Worker but Ceci Hi-Heals Scarm and takes him out. Ditto and Ramza revive and heal up Worker.

Team dude vs. Barbariccia, S2 Luc, Tiamat (FF1) and Kanji: Ramza kills Luc. Ceci statuses Kanji and Kyra gets to work on Tiamat with Nagra which he doesn't resist. Tiamat's going down next turn to another round from Kyra and Ditto and Barbariccia isn't threatening by herself. 

Team dude vs. Kary, Lucca, Yukiko, Ho-oh and Estella: Ramza hits Yukiko with an Ice Ball and then kills Estella to stop Final Flame. Ho-oh and Kary kill Worker and Kyra dizzies Yukiko who has been downed from Ramza's Ice Ball. If you give CT characters Vigil Hats then Ceci uses Hi Reflect. If not she uses Prison to hit Ho-oh and Lucca. Lucca can't do much either way. Next turn Ho-oh does something, but Ramza and Kyra are going to take him out while Ditto finishes off Yukiko. Karry can take out Kyra or Ceci, but she has trouble damaging Ditto and Ramza through Blade Grasp and Lucca can't really threaten the team with Hi Reflect up. Next turn the finish off Lucca and Kyra Warla's the team which completely kills Kary's offense. When they find an oportunity, they revive Ceci and move on to the next floor. 

Team dude vs. Suicune, Marle, Lenus, Chris and Cagnazzo (FF4DS): Ramza kills Marle, as Super pointed out Silent Lake really isn't the way to go for this team so Chris's best bet is to revive Marle, but if that happens then Kyra and Worker just take Marle back out. Ceci Prison's Chris and Suicune at the very least and Cagnazzo isn't beating the team with just high HP Lenus. They take Cagnazzo out and heal and buff up before finishing off Lenus.

Team dude vs. Ashera, Chaos and Malice Gilbert: So this assumes that Ashera goes before Chaos as both are average speed. This is the worse situation for the team because if Chaos goes first than his attack gets absorbed by Worker which gives my team more time to buff up. So right now Ramza's pumping out about .9 PCHP, and Kyra about .35 with Nagra which Chaos doesn't resist. Gilbert has around. 1.7 hp with slightly above average speed. Chaos has .74 PCHP but reduces physical damage by 70% and magical by 20%. Turn order is Ramza>Ditto>Kyra>Gilbert>Ashera>Chaos>Ceci>Worker. Ramza goes first and smacks Gilbert for big ~.85 Ditto turns into Ramza and Kyra Nagras dealing  .3 to Gilbert and Chaos both. Gilbert and Ashera combine to kill Worker and Chaos hits the team with MT damage which Ceci immediately heals up. If he does anything else than Ceci uses Hi Reflect neutering his big damage and limiting him to ST attacks. Next turn Ramza hits Gilbert again for ~.85 taking him out and Ditto hits Chaos for .3. Kyra goes next and mops Chaos and Gilbert up if you respect Gilbert's health more.  At this point Gilber will have taken around 2.3 PCHP and Chaos around .9 PCHP which if you think is enough to take them out then my team should be okay.  Ashera gets a turn but she's by herself and the team is at full health. This puts them at a similar position to the end of last week's floor and I think they should be able to do it again.

Other teams pass as well.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Tentatively going with "All Teams Pass", but I'm a little unsure on Tide, honestly.

Snow: WhiteRose on the MT Floor is awesome.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Tentatively going with "All Teams Pass", but I'm a little unsure on Tide, honestly.

Snow: WhiteRose on the MT Floor is awesome.

White Rose, Zerase, Alys... heck, even Billy is pretty funny if for some reason he needs to cast Goddess Eye. I ran screaming from the ST floor for a reason (other than jesus fuck evrae and defender x rape my party)

[SnowFire]

Team Piggyman & Tide pass, sure, super's analysis sounds right for Tide, he barely scrapes through the final fight.

Team dude...  looking into it now, but a few quick comments:
* Doesn't really matter but is Ceci's Hi-Heal 100% healing or just "a lot of healing?"  Because Scar-Z's HP is excellent and it's explicitly only heal 100% effects that insta-kill him.  That said, the team can slowly grind through him with normal healing anyway, just at the cost of a bit of MP when Ramza has Ethers.

* Yukiko has super-evade on turns 1-3 apparently so relying on Ramza throwing an Ice Ball at her seems extremely risky.  Also Prison has a decent argument to go through Yellow Scarf since it's an ID variant and Scarves don't catch instant death, but it's not totally clear, so meh, coinflippy on that note.

* Ashera alone can almost certainly kill Worker 8.  Her MT damage is multiplied by 5 against Firefly Worker, which was what, .63 PCHP or so it came up last week?  That's more than 3 PCHP.  Noooo Worker 8 does not survive that even with Defense UP.  That means Gilbert has a move to play with that isn't wasting Worker 8.  EDIT: I see that perhaps dude was assuming Gilbert was above average speed, which is...  okay that's a mess.  Stat topic estimates 50 AGL, but it's vs. lvl. 42 characters, when the PC stat topic is lvl. 50 characters.  Against lvl. 50 characters Gilbert is easily below average speed, against lvl. 42, if he's slightly faster than Mao, Mao is dead average in the lvl. 50 set, so that would imply Gilbert is a tiny bit above average speed.  But taking Gilbert even a level or two later and he's average speed or below again.  Meh.  No good answers to this one.

[Random Consonant]

According to NEB Gilbert is actually 57 AGI, just that SH3 bosses are apparently slower on their first turn ala FFX or something.

[dude789]

It's only really an issue if both Chaos and Gilbert go after Ashera because otherwise Ceci just heals up Gilbert's damage instead of Chaos's. Also, it doesn't make a huge difference, but I'm fairly certain that Hi-Heal is full healing rather than overkill healing for Ceci's hp.

[SnowFire]

I am generally generous in letting the player team win tiebreaks against the Dungeon team when everyone's average speed, but.  I also presume in these giant average speed messes that both sides can set it up their turn order in a rational fashion, so yes Ashera would go first, then Gilbert & Chaos.  (Especially easy to imagine in the FE case, where you pick which "average" speed person acts first.)

Also, Piggyman, I don't think resources should be a huge issue for dude.  As noted, Ramza has Ethers, all the party has to do is leave someone with incompetent offense alive.  Maybe Kyra's stuff wouldn't be seen as replenished by Ethers I guess?  But I doubt it.

Team dude vs. Kary, Lucca, Yukiko, Ho-oh and Estella
I'm normally pretty harsh on Pokemon skill switching, but I make an exception for ramming into outright immunity.  So Swift does ~.30 PCHP, Kary's physical is .80 PCHP....  and...  uh that's not enough to kill Worker.  Nor is it particularly close, Lucca's gonna need good luck on her Wonder Shot or whatever to finish the job.  That's potentially game, Ice Ball hype or no.  Yukiko will be spamming revival behind her evasion to make this somewhat interesting...  hrmm.  So Estella is actually harmless round 1, so Ramza can go for Lucca instead, but Yukiko will revive her, and the other's turns are wasted on W8.  But eh, Ditto will set up as Kary, W8 will get a turn to do some damage, Ramza can go kill Estella now and keep Yukiko busy...  seems uphill for the team for all that dude is bad at closing this out.

Team dude vs. Suicune, Marle, Lenus, Chris and Cagnazzo (FF4DS)
Another team that wastes too many turns to not actually kill W8.  Not sure even a Cag physical + Phoenix rune can do the trick.  And Prison definitely takes out Suicune at least, so yeah, not much left to threaten.

Team dude vs. Ashera, Chaos and Malice Gilbert
Ramza hits something.  Can Ramza + Kyra kill Chaos?  Quite possibly, I don't think Chaos is that good.  Let's assume no.  Ramza hits Chaos anyway, Kyra does something, Ditto transforms into something.  Ashera blows the hell out of W8, Gilbert does the Deep Grudge->Malice Dirge to kill the hell out of whoever's in the area of effect thanks to the Prone damage bonus.  Oh boy, AoE in the Dungeon hype time!  I recall Lady's AoEs as being pretty badass (3/4 hits usually) but how was Gilbert's?  Anyway after that Chaos can throw out that 42.5% MT ID on the survivors, or if the healing is weak, FAST up and prepare to outslug.  Next turn there's going to be Ashera MT + Chaos MT + Gilbert sniping so unless the AoE only got 2/5 characters and the ID missed everyone or something everything goes to hell.

Okay, yeah, backing up, Chaos absolutely must die from Ramza & Kyra for this fight to be winnable for dude to me.  Assuming evasion doesn't kick in, .90 physical damage from Ramza (two chances to miss, too) becomes .31 PCHP damage according to stat topic.  dude says Nagra isn't resisted and is another .3 PCHP damage.  So...  .61 PCHP damage, which doesn't hit the stat topic's figure of .74 PCHP.  I think that's high, though, so this is more like a survival check to me.  Okay, so let's say Chaos DOES die.  Ashera blows up W8, Gilbert blows up...  let's let dude split up his team like he'd want, and Gilbert has to pick which group.  dude probably wants to split Ramza / Kyra vs. Ditto!Ramza / Cecilia.  Gilbert blows one of those sets to hell.  Let's say he goes for Ditto / Cecilia to stop the good revival.  Probably not worth Ramza's time to revive, so he starts blitzing Gilbert.  Kyra defense buffs.  Still, Gilbert damage + Ashera ST Magic can probably still take out Kyra, and Ramza just can't solo.

Anyway as a comment to Neph this fight is kind of insane.  If I read the stat topic right (Prone = double damage right?), Gilbert is not trivial to blitz out and does 1.03 PCHP damage to an area + .51 MT damage (so 1.54 PCHP damage to the area), and it's void typed so not really resistable.  Weird since I recall him not being tremendously threatening in-game, but at least according to the stat topic he's an insane badass, and he's got solid support here.

[superaielman]

Dude fails. Worker is going to fry horribly to Ashera's attack, and I don't think Ramza+Kyra is enough to kill off Gilbert. Cecilia survives the magical blitz easily enough, but no one else on the team will.

Edit: I don't think AoE matters. Gilbert Malice Dirge is MT. That+Nuke is enough to kill Ramza and Ditto. The deep grudge part of the combo kills Kyra.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Weird since I recall him not being tremendously threatening in-game, but at least according to the stat topic he's an insane badass, and he's got solid support here.

While I did find Gilbert moderately badass in-game myself (second toughest boss after Lady in a game with generally decent bosses, YMMV), the obvious big difference is that in-game you use hard hits to avoid seeing that combo. If he gets it off (which, due to his quick recharge time and ability to inflict insanity, is certainly a possibility), it is pretty damn dangerous.

Maybe Kyra's stuff wouldn't be seen as replenished by Ethers I guess?  But I doubt it.

PS4 is pretty clear about this, since it does have TP (MP) healing. Ethers restore her main stock of magic, including her healing (Nares) and much or her damage (Nagra, Nafoi). Her absolute best damage (Tandle), works-on-mechs healing (Medice), and defence buffer (Warla) are not restored, however. I suspect being able to restore the former is enough, especially considering Kyra's resources are generally quite deep.

[superaielman]

I think the only real argument dude has at this point is Ramza waiting and reviving W8 before Gilbert goes.  Cecilia would Hyper Ramza. Round 2. A hypered Ramza physical should waste Gilbert. Kyra can heal Ramza. Ashera makes W8/Ditto (Won't see a turn regardless)/Kyra dead at this point. Chaos can kill either Ramza or Cecilia and... yeah, same problem. I just don't think they have the offense to blitz this fight, or the durability to outlast the crazy MT that gets thrown around.