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Author Topic: PG week 2 Heavy  (Read 1173 times)

superaielman

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PG week 2 Heavy
« on: August 18, 2012, 12:03:41 AM »
In:


Ceodore: 13-9
Knight: 25-23

Out:

Estelle: 9-18

Fighters for the week

Dorothy- We're off to see the wizard~
FF5 Hunter- Nasty damage and good speed, durability could be better.
Artea- Excellent healing and limits, some statusblocking options.

Dorothy (WoO) vs Miguel (CC)
Dorothy vs Deis (BoFs)
Dorothy vs Millenia (G2)
Dorothy vs Nikki (MK)
Dorothy vs Angela (SD3)
Dorothy vs Toadstool (SMRPG)
Dorothy vs Garan (SH2)
Dorothy vs Flik (Suikos)
Dorothy vs Billy (XG)
Dorothy vs  Meliadoul (FFT)
Dorothy vs Nina (BoF1)
Dorothy vs Jack (WA1)

Hunter (FF5) vs Miguel (CC)
Hunter vs Deis (BoFs)
Hunter vs Millenia (G2)
Hunter vs Nikki (MK)
Hunter vs Angela (SD3)
Hunter vs Toadstool (SMRPG)
Hunter vs Garan (SH2)
Hunter vs Flik (Suikos)
Hunter vs Billy (XG)
Hunter vs  Meliadoul (FFT)
Hunter vs Nina (BoF1)
Hunter vs Jack (WA1)

Artea (Lufia2) vs Miguel (CC)
Artea vs Deis (BoFs)
Artea vs Millenia (G2)
Artea vs Nikki (MK)
Artea vs Angela (SD3)
Artea vs Toadstool (SMRPG)
Artea vs Garan (SH2)
Artea vs Flik (Suikos)
Artea vs Billy (XG)
Artea vs  Meliadoul (FFT)
Artea vs Nina (BoF1)
Artea vs Jack (WA1)
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
-------------------
<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

superaielman

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Re: PG week 2 Heavy
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2012, 12:50:18 AM »
Hunter (FF5) vsMiguel (CC)
Hunter vs Deis (BoFs)- Faster 2HKO offhand.
Hunter vs Millenia (G2)- No OHKO.
Hunter vs Nikki (MK)- Kneejerk Nikki going first.
Hunter vs Angela (SD3)- Status.
Hunter vs Toadstool (SMRPG)-  Sleep immunity.
Hunter vs Garan (SH2)- Fighter.
Hunter vs Flik (Suikos)- Faster offhand.
Hunter vs Billy (XG)- Not OHKOed.
Hunter vs Meliadoul (FFT)- EDIT: Sure, I'll buy the immortal weapon bit.
Hunter vs Nina (BoF1)- Survive a hit, hold.
Hunter vs Jack (WA1)- Jack wins if he goes first or statuses first turn. Feels like his fight.

Artea (Lufia2) vs Miguel (CC)- Not Artea's match.
Artea vs Deis (BoFs)- Outlasts either form offhand.
Artea vs Millenia (G2)- Spellbinding eye.
Artea vs Nikki (MK)- Doubt Nikki can manage a OHKO.
Artea vs Angela (SD3)- Too much status.
Artea vs Toadstool (SMRPG)- Bunny ears, coast.
Artea vs Garan (SH2)- Guess who can IP heal his way past Garan! Or smack himi with a holy elemental IP or outslug and... yeah.
Artea vs Flik (Suikos)- Not OHKOed
Artea vs Billy (XG)- Haste, build up AP combo, smash on a double.
Artea vs  Meliadoul (FFT)- Goes in naked, outlasts easily enough.
Artea vs Nina (BoF1)- Gets a fatal weapon IP at some point.
Artea vs Jack (WA1)- Bunnies up, outlasts.

Artea: 8-4
Hunter: 4-8
« Last Edit: August 18, 2012, 12:52:25 AM by superaielman »
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
-------------------
<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: PG week 2 Heavy
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2012, 04:59:40 AM »
Dorothy (WoO) vs Miguel (CC) - OHKO.
Dorothy vs Deis (BoFs) - Deis1 misses the OHKO and then gets promptly owned by Mirror Skin and Dorothy's buffing/healing game. Deis2 Deaths and lols. I go by Deis1, soooooooooo...
Dorothy vs Millenia (G2) - Sleep blocker, Spellbinding Eye.
Dorothy vs Nikki (MK) - EDIT: Wait, oh wow NEB -is- right, jesus christ.
Dorothy vs Angela (SD3) - Mirror Skin or Dream Land, pick your poison.
Dorothy vs Toadstool (SMRPG) - I -think- Mirror Skin works against status magic.
Dorothy vs Garan (SH2) - Dorothy opens with Power Boost, which leads to Garan getting outslugged by staff beats no matter what he does. MP-busting is a waste of a turn, Dorothy two-rounds as it stands.
Dorothy vs Flik (Suikos) - Mirror Skin.
Dorothy vs Billy (XG) - EDIT: Did I seriously underrate Dorothy damage that bad? Damn.
Dorothy vs  Meliadoul (FFT) - Okay, math says Meliadoul is absolutely unable to land a OHKO on Dorothy even after armor breaking (after the armor is broken, Dorothy is roughly 1.53 pdur off lower is better). This means Meli is likely breaking the weapon first in order to nerf the magical damage and make Dorothy's physical offense fail beyond all reason... but is that even -enough-? Dorothy is so much faster, particularly after Overclock, and her healing is just so goddamned cheap and only takes 25% of her offense. Dorothy may take forever to kill, but she will have that much time, is my kneejerk.
Dorothy vs Nina (BoF1) - Mirror Skin => Dream Land spam if Nina status is a concern.
Dorothy vs Jack (WA1) - Jack status is turn two to me. So, Dorothy Overclocks, heals, Melt Downs, heals, then bombards with Melt Down for a kill? Eh, works.

Hunter (FF5) vs Miguel (CC) - Um.
Hunter vs Deis (BoFs) - UM.
Hunter vs Millenia (G2) - UM.
Hunter vs Nikki (MK) - Wins the quickdraw.
Hunter vs Angela (SD3) - Wins the survival draw.
Hunter vs Toadstool (SMRPG) - Sleep immunity!
Hunter vs Garan (SH2) - Garan and Heavy-level physicals.
Hunter vs Flik (Suikos) - EDIT: Flik pdur being undersold!
Hunter vs Billy (XG) - Haste-healing is kinda broken.
Hunter vs  Meliadoul (FFT) - EDIT: They're weapons! They're legendary! There's even twelve of them!
Hunter vs Nina (BoF1) - EDIT: Wow, I'm batting 20-20 today.
Hunter vs Jack (WA1) - Blergh, faster and gets two shots to win. Prolly all he needs.

Artea (Lufia2) vs Miguel (CC) - Ow.
Artea vs Deis (BoFs) - Don't feel the Bunny Ring love no more, so she gets at least two shots of Death to work with.
Artea vs Millenia (G2) - Eyes.
Artea vs Nikki (MK) - ID.
Artea vs Angela (SD3) - Status.
Artea vs Toadstool (SMRPG) - Artea needs Sleep immunity to win this. If it runs off Bunny equipment, *flush.*
Artea vs Garan (SH2) - Garan plays perfectly into Artea's IP game.
Artea vs Flik (Suikos) - EDIT: 13% reduction! YES.
Artea vs Billy (XG) - Yup.
Artea vs  Meliadoul (FFT) - Artea doesn't really fear the equipment busting.
Artea vs Nina (BoF1) - Nina just needs to land paralysis and wins forever.
Artea vs Jack (WA1) - EDIT: Goddammit I feel like a yo-yo.

Dorothy - 10-2 (Pool mostly played to her strengths, but I've been hyping Dorothy as a champ-calibur Heavy for a reason. She performed very well in a mostly tough pool)
Hunter - 4-8 (Run-off-the-mill. This pool is quite viciously good at outpacing her slugging package, to boot)
Artea - 4-8 (;_; Really doesn't like his good immunities being sketchy on legality.)
« Last Edit: August 20, 2012, 11:26:16 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
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Random Consonant

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Re: PG week 2 Heavy
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2012, 05:27:42 AM »
Dorothy (WoO) vs Miguel (CC) - le OHKO.
Dorothy vs Deis (BoFs) - le ID
Dorothy vs Millenia (G2) - le SBE
Dorothy vs Angela (SD3) - le Mirror Skin
Dorothy vs Toadstool (SMRPG) - Sure.
Dorothy vs Flik (Suikos) - Dorothy's faster?  That's game then.
Dorothy vs Billy (XG) - Sure.
Dorothy vs Meliadoul (FFT)
Dorothy vs Nina (BoF1) - lazy copying.
Dorothy vs Jack (WA1) - I'll bite

Hunter (FF5) vs Miguel (CC) - Yep.
Hunter vs Deis (BoFs) - le ID
Hunter vs Millenia (G2) - le SBE
Hunter vs Angela (SD3) - yep
Hunter vs Toadstool (SMRPG) - sure.
Hunter vs Flik (Suikos) - sure.
Hunter vs Billy (XG) - dat haste-healans
Hunter vs  Meliadoul (FFT) -
Quote from: Hello-GuidothedralWaddleDee
They're weapons! They're legendary! There's even twelve of them!
This amuses me enough to go with.
Hunter vs Nina (BoF1) - good lord what the hell me.
Hunter vs Jack (WA1)

Artea (Lufia2) vs Miguel (CC) - Yep.
Artea vs Deis (BoFs) - le ID
Artea vs Millenia (G2) - le SBE
Artea vs Angela (SD3) - le status
Artea vs Toadstool (SMRPG) - Sleep immunity: Bunnyears, nothing else.   Hahaha welp.
Artea vs Flik (Suikos) - Edit: dodges the OHKO by 0.4%?  Yeesh.
Artea vs Billy (XG) - as discussed in chat.
Artea vs  Meliadoul (FFT) - Artea doesn't really care about Meliadoul's equip breaking nonsense, no.
Artea vs Nina (BoF1)
Artea vs Jack (WA1)
« Last Edit: August 21, 2012, 02:55:50 AM by Random Consonant »

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: PG week 2 Heavy
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2012, 06:38:57 PM »
Dorothy (WoO) vs Miguel (CC): Heavies generally don't beat Miguel without holy resistance, even great ones.
Dorothy vs Deis (BoFs): Abstain, not sure which Deis form I vote on. I don't view Mirror Skin as effective against Deis 1's offence but I don't think it matters.
Dorothy vs Millenia (G2): Sleep blocker and spell-binding eye, yes.
Dorothy vs Nikki (MK): Ugh Dorothy speed headaches. I really need to figure those out. Still, she should get at least four turns between Nikki's first and second, and if those four are all Meltdowns that probably kills because... wait, what? Dorothy can do that? Gross.
Dorothy vs Angela (SD3): Dream Land.
Dorothy vs Toadstool (SMRPG): Can reflect the status, sure.
Dorothy vs Garan (SH2): Yeah, two-rounds.
Dorothy vs Flik (Suikos): Flik wishes he was more than mildly above average.
Dorothy vs Billy (XG): So apparently Dorothy one-rounds average durability easily with Melt Down x4. o_O Never realised that, I assumed her Sacrifice-move actually decreased proportionally with her HP but the raw base damage is huge. So if someone can't take her out in a single hit...
Dorothy vs  Meliadoul (FFT): Yeah, sleep-immune Meliadoul's offence is just pathetic. Dorothy can overcome that without equipment unless she runs out of MP which seems unlikely.
Dorothy vs Nina (BoF1): Nina MUST open with Wall or she eats Dream Land, so instead Dorothy just Power Boosts and physicals. Nina is now heal-locked forever, and she runs out of healing before Dorothy runs out of Power Boost. If Nina ever takes a non-initiative action she gets lapped and dies, so status is out.
Dorothy vs Jack (WA1): Dream Land.

Hunter (FF5) vs Miguel (CC): Migs is competent.
Hunter vs Deis (BoFs): Either Deis handls this slugfest easily.
Hunter vs Millenia (G2): The eyes, they spellbind.
Hunter vs Nikki (MK): Faster, 2HKOs first.
Hunter vs Angela (SD3): Petrify.
Hunter vs Toadstool (SMRPG): Block sleep, heal-lock.
Hunter vs Garan (SH2): Garan vs. physical sluggers in Heavy.
Hunter vs Flik (Suikos): So uh Flik is 132% pdur, that isn't 2HKOed. Lightning halving still lets him 2HKO back. (Assuming you give him two L4s anyway. I do.)
Hunter vs Billy (XG): Hunter isn't winning with damage, so she equips the Killer Bow instead. Billy can haste and then get at least three turns before then to kill, though. (Killer Bow is 8% per shot, which works out to turn 3 with Rapidfire.)
Hunter vs Meliadoul (FFT): Mel's only 3HKOed, but even against naked Hunter's awful pdur she can't manage a 2HKO herself. Legendary weapon hype takes care of the rest.
Hunter vs Nina (BoF1): FF5 immunes both slow and paralysis. Uh, what status game does Nina have, exactly?
Hunter vs Jack (WA1): Two shots of ID, yeah.

Artea (Lufia2) vs Miguel (CC)
Artea vs Deis (BoFs): ID. Think he loses to Deis1 on raw offence anyway even if I decide to allow bunnies.
Artea vs Millenia (G2): Mm hm.
Artea vs Nikki (MK): More ID.
Artea vs Angela (SD3): Stone.
Artea vs Toadstool (SMRPG): Sleep. Man that casino stuff, it matters a lot.
Artea vs Garan (SH2): Doesn't need the casino for poison immunity!
Artea vs Flik (Suikos): Flik only does... 99% to Artea. (The stat topic's calculation of MDef appears incorrect, Artea reduces average magic damage by 13%, not 8%.) So! Doubt he can win.
Artea vs Billy (XG): I'll bite.
Artea vs  Meliadoul (FFT): Ooh right, he had non-holy attack spells. Then yeah, no equipment = win anyway.
Artea vs Nina (BoF1): And ANOTHER match decided by casino stuff! Really?
Artea vs Jack (WA1): Jack takes like 18% extra from magic, not sure where this "Artea doesn't 2HKO" hype is coming from.

Dorothy 9-2
Hunter 4-8
Artea 4-8

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Random Consonant

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Re: PG week 2 Heavy
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2012, 08:01:07 PM »
Artea 2HKOs, but WA1o Jack without mediums is faster unless my calculations are wrong (around +1.33 SD vs. Artea's +1.27).

edit: okay one calculator gives me +1.33 SD and the other gives me +1.09, I dunno what's up, gonna blame it on hatbot.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2012, 11:13:42 PM by Random Consonant »

MalcolmMasher

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Re: PG week 2 Heavy
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2012, 08:52:14 AM »
+1.33 is right. I think what's up is, the first calculator is assuming correctly that you are feeding it all three values of a three-value set, and the second is assuming incorrectly that you are feeding it a three-value sample from an arbitrarily large set. If you happen to be using Excel, try using STDEVPA (whole population) instead of STDEV (sample).

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: PG week 2 Heavy
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2012, 05:31:35 PM »
Yeah, I had forgotten all about this, but that's the case. The problem is that I bet some stat topics use one and some use the other... I know I've used STDEV in Excel for instance.

I need to think on this, but I think the sample standard deviation is probably more appropriate? Some of this is motivated by the fact that yes, there are other members of the population in a game's speed system (enemies). But the greater part is that the sample SD results in significantly larger SDs for smaller casts (i.e. fast individuals aren't as fast, and slow individuals aren't as slow)... which is appropriate. I'm certainly less impressed by "fastest of a 3-person cast" than I am "fastest of an 80-person cast". Open to arguments on this of course.

Mind, holistically, my vote is certainly going to stay on Artea. As I've said before, my respect for WA1 speed is less than the SDs anyway, because mediums can easily shift things around in-game... my fastest PC was Rudy, for instance. I can't think of another game besides ones such as FF8 and WA5 (and nobody respects those speed spreads) where the slowest PC can outspeed the fastest with minimal setup effort.

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Nephrite

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Re: PG week 2 Heavy
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2012, 01:34:35 AM »
Time for some combo-style vote stealing.

Dorothy (WoO) vs Miguel (CC) - OHKO.
Dorothy vs Deis (BoFs) - Deis1 misses the OHKO and then gets promptly owned by Mirror Skin and Dorothy's buffing/healing game. Deis2 Deaths and lols. I go by Deis1, soooooooooo...
Dorothy vs Millenia (G2) - Sleep blocker, Spellbinding Eye.
Dorothy vs Nikki (MK) - EDIT: Wait, oh wow NEB -is- right, jesus christ.
Dorothy vs Angela (SD3) - Mirror Skin or Dream Land, pick your poison.
Dorothy vs Toadstool (SMRPG) - I -think- Mirror Skin works against status magic.
Dorothy vs Garan (SH2) - Dorothy opens with Power Boost, which leads to Garan getting outslugged by staff beats no matter what he does. MP-busting is a waste of a turn, Dorothy two-rounds as it stands.
Dorothy vs Flik (Suikos) - Mirror Skin.
Dorothy vs Billy (XG) - EDIT: Did I seriously underrate Dorothy damage that bad? Damn.
Dorothy vs  Meliadoul (FFT) - Okay, math says Meliadoul is absolutely unable to land a OHKO on Dorothy even after armor breaking (after the armor is broken, Dorothy is roughly 1.53 pdur off lower is better). This means Meli is likely breaking the weapon first in order to nerf the magical damage and make Dorothy's physical offense fail beyond all reason... but is that even -enough-? Dorothy is so much faster, particularly after Overclock, and her healing is just so goddamned cheap and only takes 25% of her offense. Dorothy may take forever to kill, but she will have that much time, is my kneejerk.
Dorothy vs Nina (BoF1) - Mirror Skin => Dream Land spam if Nina status is a concern.
Dorothy vs Jack (WA1) - Jack status is turn two to me. So, Dorothy Overclocks, heals, Melt Downs, heals, then bombards with Melt Down for a kill? Eh, works.

Hunter (FF5) vsMiguel (CC)
Hunter vs Deis (BoFs)- Faster 2HKO offhand.
Hunter vs Millenia (G2)- No OHKO.
Hunter vs Nikki (MK)- Kneejerk Nikki going first.
Hunter vs Angela (SD3)- Status.
Hunter vs Toadstool (SMRPG)-  Sleep immunity.
Hunter vs Garan (SH2)- Fighter.
Hunter vs Flik (Suikos)- Faster offhand.
Hunter vs Billy (XG)- Not OHKOed.
Hunter vs Meliadoul (FFT)- EDIT: Sure, I'll buy the immortal weapon bit.
Hunter vs Nina (BoF1)- Survive a hit, hold.
Hunter vs Jack (WA1)- Jack wins if he goes first or statuses first turn. Feels like his fight.

Artea (Lufia2) vs Miguel (CC)- Not Artea's match.
Artea vs Deis (BoFs)- Outlasts either form offhand.
Artea vs Millenia (G2)- Spellbinding eye.
Artea vs Nikki (MK)- Doubt Nikki can manage a OHKO.
Artea vs Angela (SD3)- Too much status.
Artea vs Toadstool (SMRPG)- Bunny ears, coast.
Artea vs Garan (SH2)- Guess who can IP heal his way past Garan! Or smack himi with a holy elemental IP or outslug and... yeah.
Artea vs Flik (Suikos)- Not OHKOed
Artea vs Billy (XG)- Haste, build up AP combo, smash on a double.
Artea vs  Meliadoul (FFT)- Goes in naked, outlasts easily enough.
Artea vs Nina (BoF1)- Gets a fatal weapon IP at some point.
Artea vs Jack (WA1)- Bunnies up, outlasts.

Artea: 8-4
Hunter: 4-8

Cmdr_King

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Re: PG week 2 Heavy
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2012, 06:16:50 PM »
Dorothy (WoO) vs Miguel (CC)
Dorothy vs Deis (BoFs)
Dorothy vs Millenia (G2)
Dorothy vs Nikki (MK)
Dorothy vs Toadstool (SMRPG)
Dorothy vs Garan (SH2)
Dorothy vs Flik (Suikos)
Dorothy vs Billy (XG)
Dorothy vs  Meliadoul (FFT)
Dorothy vs Nina (BoF1)
Dorothy vs Jack (WA1)

8-3.  Things we have learned about Dorothy 1) doesn't lose to sleep vulnerable, 2) doesn't lose to damage if you don't OHKO her, 3) this field wants fatal status very badly.

Skipping the other two.
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