Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 84

[Nephrite]

"You're beginning to vex me... Let's see how you and your friends handle this!"


Link to the Dungeon Wiki!

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**Full Heals reset limit and other types of gauges when teams pass through them.
Team Tide | Ramza, Cecilia ACF, Citan (BC), Seifer, Raynie
[Ramza: Priest/Time Magic/Auto Potion/Short Charge/Move MP Up] [Chemist, Wizard, Time Mage, Priest (Summoner)(Oracle)]
*Citan has been granted a Speed Ring S (+2 Speed)
*Cecilia has been granted FP Advance.
*Ramza has been granted Robe of Lords.
*Seifer has been granted Brothers GF and the Defend command.
Team Tide vs. Terra, Riou, Wakka, Rand and VP1 Lenneth (Status Symbol Law)
Team Tide vs. Tidus(Caladbolg), Raquel, Aeris, Gilder, Enrique and Marco (Violent Burst Law)
Team Tide vs. Levin (Neo Speed), Felius, Labyrinthia, Alexia, RAGNAR BLITZ LEBRETT, Tony and Clarissa
Team Tide vs. Ricardo, Purim, Artea, Yulie, Nina4, Yuna and Lucius (All with Life Sealstone)
Team Tide vs. Ephraim, Ryu1, Mewtwo and Arnaud (All with Body Charge)

Team OK likes the Man Festival | Yuri1, Yuri2, Nash, Adray, Robo
Floor 7b: Did you say "Final Battle?"
Team OK vs. Vyse, Aika, Gilder and Fina
Team OK vs. Jude, Cecilia (ACF), Brad Evans, Virigina, Dean and Clarissa
Team OK vs. Yuri2, Karin, Joachim, Gepetto, Kurando, Anastasia and Blanca
Team OK vs. Crono, Marle, Frog, Ayla, Robo and Lucca
Team OK vs. FF1 Knight, Squall, Cecil, Terra, Cloud, Zidane and Aeonless Yuna

Team Super | Miakis, Cristo, Angelo, DQ4 Hero, Brey (Status Symbol Law)
[Miakis: Double Edge, Steel, Firefly]
Floor 5a: Ceaseheal
*On this floor, restoration of HP and MP are reduced to 10% (of whatever they normally were (ANY healing is 10%, even if it was overkill full healing)) and revival may not be used by the player team.
Team Super vs. Reno, Rude and Elena (Midgar forms)
Team Super vs. Krin, Karn, Locke and Jane
Team Super vs. Yulie, Nina1 and Yukiko
Team Super vs. Mua, Golem, Steelix and Cecil
Team Super vs. Berle

Team Dune | Timelord, Geddoe, Tidus, Aeris (Life), Mint
[Floor 4: Diff'rent Strokes]
Team Dune vs. Hahn, Tia, Gadwin, Luna, Mareg and Shana
Team Dune vs. Yumei, Badrach, Aelia, Lorenta and Grey
Team Dune vs. Worker 8, FFT Cloud, Beowulf, Olan, Alma and Reis
Team Dune vs. Albel, Adray, Roger Huxley, Noel and Chisato
Team Dune vs. Palom, Porom, Edward, Cid and Yang


Violent Burst Law - Characters with system-specific gauges begin the floor with them filled. These gauges do not charge during the floor by any other means.

Neo Speed - The effective speed of one character is increased by 25% and increases by 25% each time that character takes a turn, this effect caps at 200% base speed. This character cannot grant or be granted turns via any manner. If the character dies the speed is removed and cannot be regained.

Body Charge - Increases the health, damage and effective speed of a character by 1.3x and decreases damage to them to .7x, but increases the cost of the character by 1.5x (rounded to nearest half point, .5s are 1.0s).

Status Symbol Law - Team is fully status, debuff and ID immune, but has damage done to them increased by 1.1x and damage done by them decreased to .9x.

Life - One character's healing effects now also allows for revival, but reduces the final effect of any healing to 75%. (This means full healing is always 75%) The healing also only revives characters with 1 HP. The healing received from spells that hit more than one target may be used as revival once per battle.

[Tide]

Okay, since I was hashing this out before the update, some tentative math/numbers;

BC Citan is 350% average speed
Ramza is about 110% average speed (assuming speed average is 10, if not he's faster).
Seifer is 98% average speed.

Citan casting Haste on his first turn on Seifer, brings Seifer's first turn speed to an effective 151%.
Citan casting Haste on his first turn on Ramza, brings Ramza's first turn speed to an effective 176%

Cecilia likely has 75 FP by now at the start, due to levels in ACF post-game.

Based on my conversation with Neph, Brothers gives Seifer HP+80%/Cover as Passives. His Commands are now Attack/Limit, GF, Defend

[20:09] <Nephrite> For the most part, just giving him the GF by itself is pretty good (remember he still does cost 1.0 in theory) so the bonus can't be -too- good.
[20:09] <Nephrite> So my general thought is he could have Brothers (the summon) and Cover or something
[20:09] <Tide|GuardianTrollmera> Would I be able to give him the Defend/GF commands?
[20:09] <Tide|GuardianTrollmera> (his passive are pretty much set since Brothers doesn't much choice to begin with)
[20:09] <Nephrite> I would be fine with that.

Actual analysis...

Team Tide | Ramza, Cecilia ACF, Citan, Seifer(BC), Raynie
[Ramza: Priest/Time Magic/Auto Potion/Short Charge/Move MP Up] [Chemist, Wizard, Time Mage, Priest (Summoner)(Oracle)]
*Citan has been granted a Speed Ring S (+2 Speed)
*Cecilia has been granted FP Advance.
*Ramza has been granted Robe of Lords.
*Seifer has been granted Brothers GF and the Defend command.

Team Tide vs. Terra, Riou, Wakka, Rand and VP1 Lenneth (Status Symbol Law) - This team is largely physical and not particularly quick. This means, Citan likely opens up with Senkei on Ramza, who then uses his first turn to Quick Cecilia. She then casts System Chronos to cancel the opposing team's first turn. This then lets Citan set up Haste for the others and everyone else goes offensive, concentrating first on Terra/Riou/Wakka. The team leaves Rand alive for Cecilia to regenerate FP and Raynie to cast MP Regen on others. Seifer and Ramza concentrate on beating up Seifer a bit, enough to get into Limit range on turn 1. 

Team Tide vs. Tidus(Caladbolg), Raquel, Aeris, Gilder, Enrique and Marco (Violent Burst Law) - Similar things happen here. The team needs to make sure Aeris is dead (otherwise, Great Gospel/Pulse of Life is really bad news) and System Chronos once again shuts out the first turn, giving time to set up. Ramza also Slows everything that can be Slowed to give the team an enormous speed advantage. Should be fairly easy to overwhlem from that point on. Once again, keep someone else alive to restore MP/FP (likely Enrique, but Ramza might cast Raise on Aeris after almost everyone else is dead so she's alive but can't Limit) before finishing the fight.

Team Tide vs. Levin (Neo Speed), Felius, Labyrinthia, Alexia, RAGNAR BLITZ LEBRETT, Tony and Clarissa - Okay, so this is the first trouble fight because Neo Speed Levin is 182% average speed. Yowza. And he keeps getting faster. Citan can't Haste up Ramza because that just means Ramza's probably eating a Cancel turn. The other big danger is Clarissa's turn 1, which almost guarantees someone being dead. Alexia goes first, but can't really do anything decisive (she can't kill anyone). Citan spends turn 1 casting Haste on himself, bringing him up to 700% average speed (AW YEAH). He can then effectively Haste someone else up (Ramza) before Levin gets his first turn. At this point Levin, gets his first turn and can do the following: a) Cancel Strike Ramza. This might prevent Slow turn 1, but Citan gets two additional turns before anyone else again and can hit Clarissa with two Deathblows, dropping her down from killing range. He has to keep Cancel turning Ramza, otherwise he will Quick Cecilia and she will System Chronos. Since Citan is so fast, he will get a turn almost immediately after Clarissa gets her turn and can haste up Cecilia. Ragnar can't OHKO Cecilia, so she's going to get a chance to throw down System Chronos/Genocide Edge anyway. His alternative is to b) Attempt a OHKO on Cecilia. I'm not sure if he actually succeeds as his damage from the stat topic is barely above average and that's already considering him at like 152% average. Let's say he does for the sake of argument. This means that everyone else on his team wants to gang up on Ramza. Ramza however, with the RoL, is now harder to kill and with Auto Potion means he's probably healing pretty often. Further more, Felius/Alexia/Ragnar are all physical. Which means the faster SEIFER (which he will be after Haste) can set up Defend and let Cover do his thing to protect Ramza if he goes into critical. Ramza then gets a turn and Slows Levin, which effectively neuters the rest of this fight.

Team Tide vs. Ricardo, Purim, Artea, Yulie, Nina4, Yuna and Lucius (All with Life Sealstone) - Oh boy. That is a *lot* of revival. Citan likely sets up Ramza for a Cecilia turn with Quick. System Chronos, to shut down one turn from the opposing team, then MT Haste with MT Command Replay. This along with Slow (which is typically harder to Cure), some MT attacks and some harder to block status (such as Stop) should make the fight doable. Alternatively, set up Cecilia for a faster turn, and then MT Genocide Edge. This should wipe out a good chunk of the field and MT slinging should keep things doable from there. The end goal ultimately is to have everyone dead but Lucius to restore some resources. Cecilia wants to be at 100 FP before the end of this battle and Citan likely wants to have a full combo saved up.

Team Tide vs. Ephraim, Ryu1, Mewtwo and Arnaud (All with Body Charge) - Doable in theory. Mewtwo has to go turn 1 with Safeguard. If he doesn't Raynie can Sleep Attack and incapacitate him for a few turns. Bad news; Safeguard doesn't catch ID. So the team can use turn passing shenanigans to get Cecilia to cast Genocide Edge quickly (faster than anyone else on the opposing team). As no one on the team sans Arnaud can block ID, this is really bad. 

Mewtwo's alternative is to try and kill Cecilia. With BC, this is actually a viable option. SO! I dug around for some stat topic notes, but there's no effective note regarding ACF Ceci's Mdur. What we do know: She's notably above average in Res (198 v 134 average) and below average in HP (about 76% in HP). Mewtwo's damage with BC is 126 damage, and his speed...well TB to CTB; let's assume he's 150% average, so that goes up to 197%. Faster than Ramza, which is all that really matters here. If you use his RBY form, this is actually not enough to kill as he deals about 79.8% of average (assuming a 2.5x PCHP conversion). If she stops even 4% of his damage, this fails. He can't Amnesia and hope to double and kill because Ramza is right around the corner and the RoL will help him soften the damage. At which point he Quicks and its back to square one.

If you use his FRLG form, it gets more interesting because now he deals 88% of average. So RES now has to stop at least 13% of the damage (I'll certainly buy this myself). For the sake of argument, assume this is enough to kill. In this case, Citan wants to open up Hasting himself. Then immediately Haste Ramza. Mewtwo OHKOs Cecilia. Citan Hastes up Raynie. Ramza Slows Mewtwo. Arnaud casts Slow Down on Ramza. When Raynie gets her turn, she Sleeps Mewtwo to knock him out of commission for a while. Ryu needs one turn to go into Dragon form, so I won't have to worry temporarily about him initially and Eph...well he'll attack Ramza, but Auto Potion/Protect likely helps in cutting the damage. Plus with Haste and Slow Down kinda of offsetting, he won't double, so Ramza will still be alive for turn 2. Seifer on his turn probably either MT Magic or MT No Mercy...probably Magic to not wake up Mewtwo and get a nick at everyone else. Citan's spare turns will probably be spent trying to knock out Arnaud and healing Ramza back up (though this shouldn't take long). He actually has a decent chance at this since he's getting so many shots at it and his base hit was above average + deathblows having increased accuracy. He can't use Crystal Water, but Haze of Fire isn't far behind so it's not a total lost cause. If he has a combo prepared like I suggested, he can unleash that (I think it's ITE) and deal significant damage and probably off Arnaud before things get too obnoxious. With 2 PCs gone...mmm it's likely doable. The tricky part is likely finding a chance to revive Cecilia without getting Ramza killed. There's two ways around this. One is with Defend. Since BC Ryu doesn't quite MT OHKO (he comes close), Defend can cut the follow up physical from Eph if Auto Potion doesn't trigger to save Ramza. The second is that Citan can also cast his Defense Up/Offense down skill on Ramza at some point. It may not be a lot, but every little bit counts and all Ramza really needs is a turn (since thanks to Short Charge, he can cast it without much issues). Mm...yeah, I'm okay with this.


Quick note: Not sure how you would see turn cancelling as being nulled by status resistance myself. I have never seen a game list "turn cancel" as a viable status for one. Many of the games here don't list it as an effect so even if you think its a negative status, their home games don't have any forms of defense to catch it, and hyping status all protection from spells like that...well, whatever floats your boat I guess. ACF also doesn't have turn cancel as its own status effect. Also, it is actually similar to an overdrive effect as the summon is actually based on its WA3 counter part. Just that in WA3, when cast, the caster gains 1 turn for every 25 FP (although no one else on the team can move). They probably thought it was too powerful, so they nerfed it down to just one turn.

[dude789]

Tentative fail for team Tide. System Chronos is closer to a turn cancellation than it is to an overdrive like effect so I think I see SSL and Aura of Denial catching it. This causes problems in the first two fights and the other fights are kind of sketchy as well.

Need to think some more about the other teams.

Edit: Final votes are Super passes, others fail.

[Nephrite]

Quick change because Tide is indecisive I'm feeling generous, BC is on Citan.

I'm also changing Aika to Arnaud in the last fight.

Also SSL doesn't slow people down, only increases damage to them by 1.1x and decreases their damage to .9x.

[SnowFire]

Team OK likes the Man Festival | Yuri1, Yuri2, Nash, Adray, Robo
Floor 7b: Did you say "Final Battle?"
Team OK vs. Vyse, Aika, Gilder and Fina
The SoA team gets 14 SP a around.  Aika opens with Delta Shield which neuters this team's offense badly (although sure, the Yuri's have an energy charge game to fall back to.).   12 SP left.  Vyse Increms (8 SP)...  although hmm, he might die to 5 way physical beatdown if he does this, so say Gilder Increms Vyse instead, Vyse uses counterstance (7 SP).  Now the goal is for Vyse to unload with Increm'd Rain of Swords to kill everyone except the Yuris & Robo (it's ever so slightly better than a OHKO).  Although... hmm.  If Yuri1 goes SR, he gets a big speed buff...  oh wait never mind.  Yuri2 goes SR (which he isn't stuck in) and buffs ALL stats by 30%, including the defensive ones, and gets actual speed, so yeah, OK can overwhelm here.  (For Everyone really does save the team though, as Yuri1 would have to pick between SR & Sandalphon for revival.)

Team OK vs. Jude, Cecilia (ACF), Brad Evans, Virigina, Dean and Clarissa
Clarissa in the Dungeon, oh boy.  If Clarissa fails to steal Nash's turn, instant loss, too much status bait here.  If she fails to steal Yuri1's turn as well, there will be big problems off that MT near-OHKO Yuri1's got.  If she steals those two, it's interesting; if she steals Yuri2's turn as well, then pretty sure the WA squad easily swarms (with Jude doing the attack-> Assault Buster Robo OHKO for the lulz).  42% chance of the triple turn steal.  In the double steal case...  hrmm, Yuri2 can still FE the squad, which buffs his speed a bunch (will help against Jude certainly).  Probably a Team OK win then.  So he gets a pass here, but with only a 58% chance of winning, he's not got much luck to play with in later fights.

Team OK vs. Yuri2, Karin, Joachim, Gepetto, Kurando, Anastasia and Blanca
Pretty sure Yuri1's opening salvo does too much damage here, SH2 hates its tight speed curve.
Team OK vs. Crono, Marle, Frog, Ayla, Robo and Lucca
No Magus?  Yeah, Crono & Ayla do a number on someone with Luminarie -> Triple Kick (probably better than Falcon Hit, alas), then Thunder Bomb + SR1 Seraphic Radiance smashes everything average speed or less.  Okay Marle probably survives, she is a magic tank, but Yuri2 just punches her, then healing & cleanup.
Team OK vs. FF1 Knight, Squall, Cecil, Terra, Cloud, Zidane and Aeonless Yuna
Kind of interesting, actually.  Yuri1 would love to be buffed by Yuri2 then smash, but the turn order doesn't line up that way.  And if Yuri1 smashes, he just hands Cloud & Squall  powerful limits.  Anyway...  Yuna Holies Yuri2, killing him.  (Comes out to 1.04 PCHP damage with the 25% Holy weakness baked in, Yuri2 is 1.09 PCHP but has cast-worst SDEF.)  Zidane & Nash have some kind of speed off-  taken literally, Zidane is 1.16 speed, while Nash is 1.11 speed to me, but lol FF9 speed.  I'll give it to Zidane but with a good luck note for OK.  Anyway Zidane Sleeps or Silences Nash or something.  Yuri1...  probbaly doesn't like the way this fight is going, goes Sandalphon over SR, and blows a Revive for broken full-healing / status curing.  (I never remember that, thanks to Elf for pointing out that Revive does more than advertised.)  Still, don't let Yuri2 get his turn right away after being knocked down, so Adray does, uh, something.  Probably hit Cloud to make the Ultima Weapon not insanely painful.  Still, the rest of the team can play now.  Knight / Squall / Cecil / Cloud all have solid damage they nicely spread around, and then there's a Morph Ultima coming in afterward (which by itself almost spells trouble for Robo).  The team throws damage at Yuri1 to turn off that spigot of MT healing, and probably Yuri2 as the other big threat.  Even if Yuri2 doesn't die, Zidane can status Nash again probably.  You have to see Yuri2 getting a turn reasonably quickly post-revival and Team FF Heroes not being able to smite all of Yuri1, Yuri2, and Robo with their offense...  but that MT Ultima really does help.

If Yuri1 skipped Sandalphon and blasted with SR...  I'm pretty sure everyone on team FF survived that, and OK is now all-in.  Cloud's Blade Beam + Terra's Ultima is going to be rough.  If you hold Cloud to L1 limits (no starting meter), then Cross-Slashing Adray isn't bad either to ensure Adray can't revive Yuri2.  If Adray somehow gets a turn anyway, he's stuck with the revival being the best play -he'd like to kill Terra, but his physicals are not good, the elements are resisted, and Zidane has Protect Girls anyway / Cecil has Cover.  Since Yuri1 didn't revive, Nash is still statused and Yuri2 is still dead, so yeah things fall apart fast from there.

Anyway, there are probably some arguments here, but with the Clarissa fight already shaky, inclined to just say OK fails.

[SnowFire]

I see SSL as stopping all sorts of unstoppable statuses, so sure it nails System Chronos...  but...  Tide has 700% speed BC Citan.  Citan is now impossibly tanky (like 2.3 effective PCHP with the defense boost baked in), has healing, and can block non-ID statuses.  The only thing he fears is really tanky instant death.

Team Tide vs. Terra, Riou, Wakka, Rand and VP1 Lenneth (Status Symbol Law)
BC Speed Ring Citan solos this.
Team Tide vs. Tidus(Caladbolg), Raquel, Aeris, Gilder, Enrique and Marco (Violent Burst Law)
Sure, System Chronos makes it official.  Citan actually probably does *not* solo this one, since he can't really harm Tidus, and while he might manage to carve up Aeris before her first turn, he can't stop Hastega'd Focus / Moonlight -> The Judgment or an Intrude Chain.  Of course even ignoring System Chronos Citan has support, so.
Team Tide vs. Levin (Neo Speed), Felius, Labyrinthia, Alexia, RAGNAR BLITZ LEBRETT, Tony and Clarissa
This fight is a total nightmare for most teams, but yeah, Levin is kind of defanged here.  System Chronos deals with the rest, but Citan chops up Clarissa then aims at Levin, and the rest mostly falls into place.
Team Tide vs. Ricardo, Purim, Artea, Yulie, Nina4, Yuna and Lucius (All with Life Sealstone)
This set can't really harm Citan either.
Team Tide vs. Ephraim, Ryu1, Mewtwo and Arnaud (All with Body Charge)
Arnaud's the only threat here ultimately.  Citan goes nuts and starts slaughtering everything again, and there's not a lot these people can do about it except for Slow Down.  Which Citan uses his turn to move into a new hex then laugh.  Waiting for Shut Out -> Slow Down takes too long, too much damage will be in.  Oh and Citan has some friends, whatever.

Pass for Tide, bring on the pasta.

[Dunefar]

Tide passes, OK fails, Super passes and Dune passes.

[Random Consonant]

Tide passes.

[superaielman]

Team Super | Miakis, Cristo, Angelo, DQ4 Hero, Brey (Status Symbol Law)
[Miakis: Double Edge, Steel, Firefly]
Floor 5a: Ceaseheal
*On this floor, restoration of HP and MP are reduced to 10% (of whatever they normally were (ANY healing is 10%, even if it was overkill full healing)) and revival may not be used by the player team.
Team Super vs. Reno, Rude and Elena (Midgar forms)- Firefly should prevent the turks from blitzing Brey turn 1. If they don't do that, it's beatdown/kabuff time. 
Team Super vs. Krin, Karn, Locke and Jane- See above. All physicals means Miakis surviving should be trivial. A single kabuff more than neutralizes the damage here.
Team Super vs. Yulie, Nina1 and Yukiko- Miakis should exterminate either Yukiko or Yulie in a hit. Yukiko then has to dodge Cristo/Brey/Solo/Angelo slinging status at her, which doesn't seem likely even with Sukujaka. 
Team Super vs. Mua, Golem, Steelix and Cecil- Kabuff should more than handle this.
Team Super vs. Berle- Kabuff.

Tenative fail for OK. Abstain on Tide, will come back to this if more votes are needed though. Dune fails. Geddoe is going to run out of high level spell charges fast, and the team has no way to restore it. TL can take another fight by himself, but then what? Team's resources are stretched pretty thin, and the last three fights all have to be blitzed.

[DjinnAndTonic]

OK fails, super passes

[Nephrite]

Get out to the polls and vote!

[Nephrite]

Voting to tie-break for Dune's Team.

I see Geddoe having the True Lightning Rune for Floor 4 (which he then loses until 7, but so it goes), and around 90-100 Magic here, which means he has about 7/4/1 for charges.


Team Dune | Timelord, Geddoe, Tidus, Aeris (Life), Mint
[Floor 4: Diff'rent Strokes]
Team Dune vs. Hahn, Tia, Gadwin, Luna, Mareg and Shana - Geddoe uses L1 charge, damages everyone. TL can kill Hahn... they can't really do much there.
Team Dune vs. Yumei, Badrach, Aelia, Lorenta and Grey - Geddoe blows a L2 charge to off one of the casters, TL Time Eclipses one. They can heal off anything else or revive if necessary.
Team Dune vs. Worker 8, FFT Cloud, Beowulf, Olan, Alma and Reis - Geddoe uses L3 charge here, should be easy to mop up after that.
Team Dune vs. Albel, Adray, Roger Huxley, Noel and Chisato - Geddoe blows up Albel with a L2 charge, the rest of the team kills Noel and then Adray.
Team Dune vs. Palom, Porom, Edward, Cid and Yang - TL uses Overdrive here.

I think they're screwed next floor, but we'll see.

[Dhyerwolf]

Just to note that Albel halves Thunder, so Geddoe probably can't blow him up alone period.

[Clear Tranquil]

Team Tide and Super vs Dungeon.

Dungeon vs OK and Dune (don't have to count this if you don't want another tiebreak but yeah)

Albel halves thunder, Adray absorbs, Adray can probably reduce damage further on Albel with Reflection for those who allow it. The SO3 characters also have time to get their status/MP game going looks like. Generally Suikoden characters don't like SO3 characters very much. 

[Dhyerwolf]

Fail on Dune. That first fight alone is nasty to me unless you have knock out both Hahn and Luna and null statuses.