Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 88

[Nephrite]

"Hoh, I see... bad luck, friend... Let's see if my new surprises will give the rest a hard time!"


Link to the Dungeon Wiki!

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**Full Heals reset limit and other types of gauges when teams pass through them.

Team Snowfire | Fang, Vanille, Snow (Firefly), Lightning (Leader), Hope
[Floor 4: Diff'rent Strokes]
Team Snowfire  vs. Hahn, Tia, Gadwin, Luna, Mareg and Shana
Team Snowfire vs. Yumei, Badrach, Aelia, Lorenta and Grey
Team Snowfire vs. Worker 8, FFT Cloud, Beowulf, Olan, Alma and Reis
Team Snowfire vs. Albel, Adray, Roger Huxley, Noel and Chisato
Team Snowfire vs. Palom, Porom, Tellah, Edward, Cid and Yang

Team Tal | Celes (Speed?) Nel, Lyn, Yukiko, Cray
[Celes: Kirin(M), Siren(M), Stray, Shoat] Celes' Espers
[Floor 3b: Multiply]
**All attacks, regardless of original ability, hit either all enemies or all allies for this floor.
Team vs. Billy, Bart, Rico and Elly
Team vs. Raquel (WA4), Rudy (WA1), Brad (WA2), Gallows (WA3) and RAGNAR BLITZ LEBRETT (WAXF)
Team vs. Alma, Kresnik, Yulie and Marle
Team vs. Spherimorph, Dalton and Augst
Team vs. Gilgamesh 2 (FF5) and Wendigo (FFX)

Team Random | Jerin, Eileen, Billy(Neo Speed), Kyra, Raynie
[Floor 2a: Adventuring (Earlygame)]
Team vs. Flay and Nikki
Team vs. Jack(WA:ACF) and Rudy(WAo1)
Team vs. Opera, Ernest and Celene
Team vs. Colm, Locke, Zidane and Karn
Team vs. Killey (S2) and Lorelai (S5)

Team Trips | Yuri1, Fogel, Cielo, Yukiko, Mime (SSL)
[Floor 1: Starting off Again]
Team Trips vs. Hrist (VP1), Evil Gaia, Big Joe, Snowe(S4) and Gorudo
Team Trips vs. Bronzog, Galleon, FFT Knight and Kwanda Rossman (S1)
Team Trips vs. Blissey, Axem Green, Augst and Lucius
Team Trips vs. Mist Dragon, Whelk, Wingraptor (FF5), Garland (FF1) and LORD OCHU (FFX)
Team Trips vs. Lich and Kraken

Firefly - The first attack of each enemy will be redirected at the bearer of this sealstone. Multitarget  moves are not affected. If a status is used that prevents the target from acting (Petrify, Sleep, etc.) then the effect is nullified until the status is removed.

Speed? - The effective speed of one character is set to 120% (1.2x) average speed. This number may be further increased by speed-increasind effects.

Neo Speed - The effective speed of one character is increased by 20% and increases 20% each time that character takes a turn, this effect caps at 200% base speed. The speed of this character cannot be increased in any way, nor can this character grant or be granted turns via any manner. If the character dies the speed is removed and cannot be regained.

Status Symbol Law - Team is fully status, debuff and ID immune, but has damage done to them increased by 1.1x and damage done by them decreased to .9x.

[SnowFire]

Team Tal has weird feast or famine.  A speedy MT Imp from Celes totally owns fights 2 & 3 (good thing for fight 2, Ragnar is a pretty dangerous cook), fight 4 looks totally dealable with via spamming healing, but fights 1 & 5 look nightmarish.  XG has those Physical / Mental blockers that get all status that isn't ID, right?  So no Celes hype here.  No Safe or Shell on her either.  Bart's Wild Smile will kind of ruin Team Tal's offense by turning Lyn and to a lesser extent Nel off, so she Runics.  Next, the team absolutely must kill Elly before she gets a turn since Team Tal kind of lacks sleep nulling.  If Lyn's doubling is judged individually, then sure, Elly is dead, but if FE characters are just seen as MT'ing their attacks, the few MT attacks in FE games in general don't double, and it's a little weird to imagine some characters.  That said, sure, let's give Team Tal the benefit of the doubt, and horrible 2x Lyn / Nel death ensues leaving like Rico alive.

Okay, fight 5.  They're both above average speed and have a OHKO among them (.41 PCHP from Gilgy, .75 PCHP from Wendigo).  Since the FF6 defense curve hasn't spread out yet, Celes is actually averagish at the moment (rather than the above average defense she'll be later), so Cray is alive and Lyn needs to have evaded one of the hits to be alive.  Let's say she did.  I'm still not sure Lyn/Cray can do this on their own, because they need to chip past a 75% limit range on Wendigo where he goes ITE OHKOs for everyone time.  Maybe these bosses have some status holes Celes can exploit?  Dunno.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Wendigo is sleep-vulnerable. If Celes has it (I suspect -Siren- of all things gets that), we have something going. Gilgamesh certainly should have status holes (FF5 boss, status vulnerabilities, pick nine), but whether Celes can exploit them is another matter.

[dude789]

I think that fight really hinges on how accurate the Sleep is. Wendigo can be slept, but he still resists it somewhat so trying to hit him with a 60% sleep could be tricky.

[Nephrite]

For what it's worth, it looks like Gilgamesh is vulnerable to Zombie, Darkness, AGING, Berserk, Mute and probably Slow.

[SnowFire]

My recollection is that most of Celes' status was "100%" in big scare quotes accurate, where 100% is out of 128% because the dark gods demand powers of 2, so 78%.  Which would be a ~62% chance against 20% resistance.  Feel free to correct me.  (On the bright side, IIRC, FF6 Sleep never wears off so long as you don't take physical damage, so the fact that Lyn's counters are turned off by the MT nature of the floor is actually a good thing lest Gilgamesh use her to wake up Wendigo.)

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

That sounds roughly right. At that point, though, enemy MEvade is even lower than it is at endgame, so no idea how would that translate. MT honestly would disable counters to me as well, so that analysis is fairly accurate. The matter is whether they survive Wendigo at full HP+Gilgy, which is sketchy.

[SnowFire]

This floor is actually potentially problematic.  Waves of PCs is actually kind of a weakness this team has since FF13 characters take a damage cut to go MT.  Snow will be going Commando most of these fights - it's too important to whittle the enemy team down turn 1 and he's tanky enough even as Commando, better to let Snow die sometimes than risk a stall game.

Team Snowfire | Fang, Vanille, Snow (Firefly), Lightning (Leader), Hope
[Floor 4: Diff'rent Strokes]
Team Snowfire  vs. Hahn, Tia, Gadwin, Luna, Mareg and Shana
Tia's Drowsy is MT right?  I'll think about this later.  (If it's ST, this is easy, see FFT Fight 3, go nuts with Blitz / Fira / etc.)
Team Snowfire vs. Yumei, Badrach, Aelia, Lorenta and Grey
Oh boy all average speed fun.  If you strictly hold everyone to all average speed but don't let non-Mystina VP mages use Great Magic, then even if the VP crew goes first at worst they nuke the hell out of Snow.  FF13 can also arguably jam a turn in faster via cutting short their init gagues.  If you see Commandos / Ravagers as a bit faster than the other 4 Paradigms in the DL due to the stunlock issue, then everybody on the FF13 team goes aggro roles and gets their kill off first.

Personally, while I let non-Mystina mages use Great Magic (and 2 of them certainly does splatter the team), I tiebreak for the dungeon team by default in such scenarios, and I'm also cool with letting Commandos & Ravagers be a bit fast.

Team Snowfire vs. Worker 8, FFT Cloud, Beowulf, Olan, Alma and Reis
Olan & Beowulf's status goes off at below average speed, so...  just go nuts with MT.  Well area-target.  Very roughly, Commandos will be doing about .50 PCHP damage when they focus on an ST target and Ravagers .25 in a Commando-heavy paradigm (thus with mutual damage boosts not in the single average); Blitz cuts the efficiency by 1.5, so blitzing Commandos do ~.33 PCHP to an area.  (Note also that Snow does not have Blitz yet.)  Fira vs. Fire cuts the efficiency by 1.3 according to Tal's numbers, so Ravs do about .20 PCHP to an area.  If somehow all focused on the same area, that's ~1.15 PCHP of area damage the team can throw out + Snow's ~.50 PCHP beats on a target of opportunity.  (Snow could also theoretically go Ravager for Blizzara if more area is needed in exchange for a damage hit.)  Of course Alma can maybe save someone (Olan?) with MBarrier, but if she does target Olan, Snow probably concentrates his ST beatdown on him.  Anyway all this area stuff probably doesn't get everyone, but it's enough so that probably at least half of the status slingers are dead along with possibly some random other targets, and surviving FFTers like Worker are forced to sling their damage/status at Snow.  The team can probably retrench after the initial blitz and hold out from there.

Team Snowfire vs. Albel, Adray, Roger Huxley, Noel and Chisato
They're all ramming into Sentinel Snow backed by Synergists when I have no MP to drain.  gl.

Team Snowfire vs. Palom, Porom, Tellah, Edward, Cid and Yang
Yang and Edward both have fast status...  but it can miss, so the odds of nailing both Snow + someone else relevant seem remote.  More likely only Snow gets statused, and...  well, Hope Esunas, everyone else beats the crap out of the three deadly but frail mages.  If for some reason you see this as hard to do (say both statuses landed?), Fang should have Fog by now for some Silence, although frankly she can probably just kill a mage with beatdown instead.  If you still see issues here, Lightning blows a summon on turn 1 and promptly goes to Gestalt before the three mages get turns.


No pass vote yet, though, as noted need to examine the first fight where there can't be any Summon hype and there's 3 statusers who need to die, 1 of whom is faster than my team.

[SnowFire]

I think I pass, although this floor is a worthy challenge for the FF13ers.  Apparently MT'ing Drowsy kills its accuracy, so Tia's sleep maaaybe gets 1 person or something.  Hahn & Luna are the main threats, and they're pretty frail, so even ST beats should do the trick, but the area beatdown is probably better to inflict damage on the others in the process depending on how spread-out you see the enemies.  But eh, when you fight 6 enemies in FF13, that's when the area stuff is generally pretty good.

Team Trips passes, healers vs. floor 1.

Team Random gets a tentative pass barring a good argument as to why not.  Fight 4 is potentially threatening if Zidane can mute the right targets which theoretically can set Colm up to go on some sort of killing spree, but would kneejerk Random can pull through.

Team Talaysen...  I think I'm willing to let Lyn double / not be doubled on an individual basis, so I'll give him fight 1 for killing Elly.  Otherwise it's does that ~62% chance of sleep land turn 1.

[02:02] <+SnowFire> d100 for sleeping snow beasts
[02:02] * +Hatbot --> "SnowFire rolls d100 for sleeping snow beasts and gets 75." [d100=75]

Unfortunate.  I think I'll call that an abstain for now barring evidence on Sleep's exact hit rate.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Team Tal | Celes (Speed?) Nel, Lyn, Yukiko, Cray
[Celes: Kirin(M), Siren(M), Stray, Shoat] Celes' Espers
[Floor 3b: Multiply]
**All attacks, regardless of original ability, hit either all enemies or all allies for this floor.
Team vs. Billy, Bart, Rico and Elly - Eh sure. Only Bart goes before Lyn and she both could dodge Wild Smile or hit through him anyway. Not to mention Celes could -actually kill- Bart before things happen.
Team vs. Raquel (WA4), Rudy (WA1), Brad (WA2), Gallows (WA3) and RAGNAR BLITZ LEBRETT (WAXF) - Oh wow Nel gets Freezing Daggers to me on floor 3 and she -also- gets Berserk. Half the party gets frozen if they don't get lolstatused by Celes anyway.
Team vs. Alma, Kresnik, Yulie and Marle - Yeah. Yulie and Marle eat it from Nel+Celes and Lyn just finishes the job before MBarrier goes off. Alma totes soloing a team that doesn't fail at offense.
Team vs. Spherimorph, Dalton and Augst - <3?
Team vs. Gilgamesh 2 (FF5) and Wendigo (FFX) - EDIT: ahahahaha wow Sleep is turn -one- even with sleep resistance? So dumb.

Team Random | Jerin, Eileen, Billy(Neo Speed), Kyra, Raynie
[Floor 2a: Adventuring (Earlygame)]
Team vs. Flay and Nikki - Nikki is faster than Billies and Eileens! Good for her, she can't OHKO anyone and her ID is turn two. Blitzblitzblitz.
Team vs. Jack(WA:ACF) and Rudy(WAo1) - Blitzblitzblitz.
Team vs. Opera, Ernest and Celene - Sucksucksuck.
Team vs. Colm, Locke, Zidane and Karn - Zidane silence fails unless he hits Billy since he starts with status healing hax. And silencing Billy is begging to eat blitz, since Colm is slower than everybody but Raynie here.
Team vs. Killey (S2) and Lorelai (S5) - The team kills Killey before he gets a chance to do anything. Bye whore.

Team Trips | Yuri1, Fogel, Cielo, Yukiko, Mime (SSL)
[Floor 1: Starting off Again]
Team Trips vs. Hrist (VP1), Evil Gaia, Big Joe, Snowe(S4) and Gorudo - If a team ever loses to -this- fight, I'll be in awe.
Team Trips vs. Bronzog, Galleon, FFT Knight and Kwanda Rossman (S1) - Yyyyyyyyeah.
Team Trips vs. Blissey, Axem Green, Augst and Lucius - Fogel against this fight. So working out for the magic wall brigade.
Team Trips vs. Mist Dragon, Whelk, Wingraptor (FF5), Garland (FF1) and LORD OCHU (FFX) - hrrrrrrrr
Team Trips vs. Lich and Kraken - Um yeah. Fogel is kinda ridiculous this early even with a 10% damage penalty.

[dude789]

All pass with a note to Neph that the last fight of floor 3 should be changed. I'm not a fan of fast MT OHKOs on floor 3 even if they are somewhat status vulnerable.

[hinode]

FF6's hit formula:

Step 4d. Chance to hit

      1. BlockValue = (255 - MBlock * 2) + 1
 
      2. If BlockValue > 255 then BlockValue = 255
         If BlockValue < 1 then BlockValue = 1

      3. If ((Hit Rate * BlockValue) / 256) >= [0..99] then you hit, otherwise
      you miss.

The overwhelming majority of enemies in FF6 have 0 MBlock; I'm pretty sure the average is under 2% if you toss out Cactrot as a gimmick outlier and still less than 3% even if you don't. Sleep has a base hit rate of 111, so... yeah.

[Random Consonant]

I pass through the power of scientific explosions.  Abstain on everyone else.

[SnowFire]

Clearly I misremembered which weird FF6 formula to use.  So 100% still isn't 100%, it's more like 99% instead, but hit rates north of 100% basically always hit.  (Weird, since there is something of a range between 100-150 hit rates which is totally irrelevant...  they'll still miss vs. Cactrot and still hit vs. everything else)

Anyway that makes Celes a 75 under 80% (thanks to Wendigo's sleep resistance) so Talaysen passes after all.  (For future reference while we've looked this up now, Imp/Mute/Stop have 100 base hit rate, Muddle/Doom 94, X-Zone 85, Break 120.  For Strago, Sour Mouth has 100% hit rate.)