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Author Topic: Diversionary Twink League Week 3:  (Read 3516 times)

Magic Fanatic

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Re: Diversionary Twink League Week 3:
« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2012, 03:15:42 PM »
Holy crap I forgot he can only set seven skills at a time. >_>
Since Blue's a Human, he gets 8 slots, but it's probably irrelevant anyway.

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TimeLeap is useless, he's never lapping Isolde that way, since all it does is reset her CTB gauge.
Depends on how you see it working.  Some interpretations could mean to just say that if Blue is faster, it just makes her skip her next turn.

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Mana Khemia's dispel doesn't cover timed cards, so Vortex is useless (the argument doesn't favor the dispel).
Another interp call, since Vortex technically gets field effects in its home game (I'm told it works against RingLord's Revolution9 if you bring Kylin with you), it at least has an argument to catch other field effect things like time cards and just saying that MK Dispel isn't as broad.  I can see this argument going both ways, at least. EDIT: I've been known to be wrong several times.

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StarlightHeal is a waste of time because it's not full healing, he's going for Reviva instead if he bothers healing. The way to victory probably lies in Psychic Prison => Shadow Servant => BoundShot one-rounding if it happens -at all-.

I can see this making sense.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2012, 03:23:14 PM by Magic Fanatic »

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Diversionary Twink League Week 3:
« Reply #26 on: October 17, 2012, 03:20:27 PM »
Just to be clear, Vortex does not get field effects (LightShift, DarkShift, ECM). Revolution9 isn't a field effect, it is a positive status placed on MasterRing. DarkSphere's dispel also gets rid of it, and that's single-target. (Killing her, if that did not end the battle, would also get rid of the effect.)

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Depends on how you see it working.  Some interpretations could mean to just say that if Blue is faster, it just makes her skip her next turn.

Such interpretations would allow anyone faster with TimeLeap to gain turns on his or her opponent, which seems to considerably inflate what the move does, since it can't actually be used for that in-game. The view is still valid enough but I'd be squeamish about it for that reason; Snow's is more palatable to me.

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Laggy

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Re: Diversionary Twink League Week 3:
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2012, 07:41:23 PM »
Noting that I have no idea how Isolde works:
- Seconding NEB's views on TimeLeap here, it's awesome in a party setting but you can never actually use it to get doubleturns in-game, so I kind of find that a bit questionable to allow here.
- TimeEclipse does allow for some obscene QUI stat debuffing, and it's worth noting that stat downs and status in SaGa are clearly segregated. That said, some bosses and enemies do seem to resist/immune stat downs as well (this is not well documented, shock shock).
- PsychicPrison's lashback damage (BackFire) is ITD, so while Blue doesn't want to hit Isolde's danger HP point, he can certainly chip her down to it if it at all makes a powered-up ITD BoundShot able to kill from that point. (He has other options like Reviva if he wants to stall for a doubleturn without doing damage.)
- How badly does Isolde kill Blue from a single attack? SoulRune raises all stats by 50% with quite a meaningful impact, so if it reduces the margin from OHKO to not-OHKO it ups his rate to double and damage significantly (plus status resist odds, yadda yadda). Same question goes for Silence odds on one hit.
- Blue's speed is around 91 to a 77 average sans any buffing, for people who wanted exact figures.
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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Diversionary Twink League Week 3:
« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2012, 08:56:27 PM »
Noting that I have no idea how Isolde works:
- TimeEclipse does allow for some obscene QUI stat debuffing, and it's worth noting that stat downs and status in SaGa are clearly segregated. That said, some bosses and enemies do seem to resist/immune stat downs as well (this is not well documented, shock shock).

If TimeEclipse works on Isolde, I think Blue has the match in the bag because it allows for tripleturns to happen. This is kinda questionable but reasonably arguable, of course, and I detailed why before.

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- How badly does Isolde kill Blue from a single attack? SoulRune raises all stats by 50% with quite a meaningful impact, so if it reduces the margin from OHKO to not-OHKO it ups his rate to double and damage significantly (plus status resist odds, yadda yadda). Same question goes for Silence odds on one hit.

The main matter is how much Isolde's damage piles up as he lets her get turns. She doesn't OHKO him straight off in a single, but she piles up timed cards that inflict damage and go off independently from her own turns that pile up pretty brutally along with adding up to break, which makes Blue lose turns and suffer ITD increased damage if he suffers damage while he's stunned (Grand Gaze should be a Break 2HKO, and she can pile multiple of them - and it can inflict Slow on him, which makes him instantly lose, that makes people 1/3 average speed). Also, I actually looked up and Grand Gaze doesn't -actually- have an element attached to it. SoulRune is an interesting point, since it -should- lower her odds of statusing (MK magical status -does- check MDef). The issue I see with using SoulRune, though, is that it gives her a free turn to get started if PP spamming gets her into 75% HP range, and even at full HP, Grand Gaze bullshit getting started is very dangerous - not to mention she can also debuff his MDef with perfect odds while still inflicting damage, and she should 2HKO post-Baxim Bite with a single Grand Gaze card. Still feel Blue's best bet is trying to get off BoundShot Shadow Servant while disallowing Isolde from even a single turn, since the independence of Isolde's pressure is pretty dangerous to Blue, who has no real answer to timed cards in the longer term.

EDIT: And after looking it up further, ShadowServant just straight doubles damage. Yeah, think that strategy works as long as you see at least Grand Gaze being hit by Psychic Prison, which I'm willing to buy. Don't think I'd see it dealing damage (no indication that MK enemies even -use- SP? Yeah. There's SP draining in-game on both ends, but enemies just have infinite SP pools from all I can gather from empiric experience), but thinking the 66% threshold still works for now.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2012, 10:23:50 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
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Laggy

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Re: Diversionary Twink League Week 3:
« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2012, 10:28:53 PM »
Yes, ShadowServant doubles the output, you can notice it in-game because rather than getting a multihit the game actually doesn't show the damage figure until after the ShadowServant finishes duplicating the action (so an SS'd MWB would be like 5000 as opposed to 2500 x2).
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Cmdr_King

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Re: Diversionary Twink League Week 3:
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2012, 05:49:54 AM »
So uh there's like five votes right now and I should have bumped this yesterday.  Oops, going 'til tomorrow then.

Bluelike

Gawn (WA4) vs Revya (SN)- Yeah Revya needs some sort of ability to lap Gawn here if she can only summon 8 rooms.  And uh no.
Cloud (FFVII) vs Brahman (DDS2)- My instinct is that ITD  is the crucial edge cloud needs, thanks to dying resetting his debuffs.  Lets him get around Brahman's buffs.

Godlike

Kusuha (OG1) vs Cait (FFVII)
Ginny (WA3) vs Adult Mags (WA4)- Hm.  Yeah I guess a turn 1 summon is plenty here.
Blue (SaGa) vs Isolde (MK1)
Fou (BoFIV) vs Dr. Psyche (MMXCM)
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Yoshiken

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Re: Diversionary Twink League Week 3:
« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2012, 10:19:00 AM »
re: Cloud/Brahman: I think the issue with Eternal Zero is that Cloud can't wall it, nothing else. Every time Brahman gets a turn that can include Eternal Zero, Cloud is losing a Final Attack use, and I don't think the durability on those last forms is quite so bad to allow Cloud to OHKO them.
*checks* Yeaaaah, no. The forms are still above PCHP to me and there is no way Cloud is doing that much unless he hits Limits, and the whole Final Attack thing kills -that- too.

OblivionKnight

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Re: Diversionary Twink League Week 3:
« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2012, 08:25:46 PM »
Gawn (WA4) vs Revya (SN)
Cloud (FFVII) vs Brahman (DDS2)
Kusuha (OG1) vs Cait (FFVII)
Ginny (WA3) vs Adult Mags (WA4)
Blue (SaGa) vs Isolde (MK1)
Fou (BoFIV) vs Dr. Psyche (MMXCM)
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Pyro

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Re: Diversionary Twink League Week 3:
« Reply #33 on: October 22, 2012, 09:07:10 PM »
Bluelike

Gawn Brawdia (Wild ARMs 4) vs Revya (Soul Nomad & The World Eaters)
Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy VII)- Phoenix+Final Attack, E.Skills.  Mystile, Ribbon. vs Brahman (Digital Devil Saga 2)

Godlike

Kusuha Mizuha (Super Robot Taisen: Original Generation)- SP Regen, SP Up +9, Prevail L9, Solar Panel vs Cait Sith (Final Fantasy VII)- Sneak Attack+Shield, Master Magic+Counter, MP Up.  Mystile, Ribbon.
Virginia Maxwell (Wild ARMs 3)- All mediums.  May not alter mediums mid-battle. vs Adult Mags (Wild ARMs 4)
Blue (SaGa Frontier)- Raised as a Gunner (see Emelia for rough stats).  May not set Tower, Overdrive, or Stasis Rune.  vs Isolde Schelling (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis): Break -> rape. No tripleturns from a TB speed system.
Fou-lu (Breath of Fire IV) vs Dr. Psyche (Mega Man X: Command Mission): Just pretend it's Yuna and be satisfied with the disembowling.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Diversionary Twink League Week 3:
« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2012, 12:49:11 AM »
Short Voting Form

Bluelike

Cloud (FFVII) vs Brahman (DDS2): Okay so this is the week's actually interesting match. Suku's effect on evade isn't very pronounced so Mystile is probably still at least somewhat intact... possibly enough to not die from Light x4? And Cloud needs to be killed six times, so even if he only 2HKOs each form and 4HKOs the last (meaning Brahman gets eight Eternal Zero turns), he just needs to dodge enough to 3 out of 8, which I bet he does. And then finally I let damage bleed through the buffer to a limited extent so whatever, Cloud Omnislashes form 2.

Godlike

Kusuha (OG1) vs Cait (FFVII): Shield!
Ginny (WA3) vs Adult Mags (WA4): Fire.
Blue (SaGa) vs Isolde (MK1): Timed card rampage.
Fou (BoFIV) vs Dr. Psyche (MMXCM): Somehow survives Needle Shower spoiling.

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Cmdr_King

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Re: Diversionary Twink League Week 3:
« Reply #35 on: October 23, 2012, 09:57:39 AM »
Bluelike

Gawn (WA4)- iiiii vs Revya (SN)
Cloud (FFVII)- iii vs Brahman (DDS2)- iiii

Godlike

Kusuha (OG1) vs Cait (FFVII)- iiiii
Ginny (WA3)- iiiii vs Adult Mags (WA4)- i
Blue (SaGa)- iiii vs Isolde (MK1)- ii
Fou (BoFIV)- iiiiii vs Dr. Psyche (MMXCM)

Almost back on track.  Update momentarily.
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