Author Topic: Diversionary Twink League Finals: (Read 1656 times)

Cmdr_King · « **on:** October 29, 2012, 05:01:49 PM »

So Brahman wins the Bluelike portion of our tournament. To give ourselves more matches to vote on, he'll have a different match entirely this week.

Bluelilke Bonus Match

Virginia Maxwell (Wild ARMs 3)- All mediums. May not alter mediums mid-battle. and Blue (SaGa Frontier)- Raised as a Gunner (see Emelia for rough stats). May not set Tower, Overdrive, or Stasis Rune. vs Brahman (Digital Devil Saga 2)

Godlike Finals

Cait Sith (Final Fantasy VII)- Sneak Attack+Shield, Master Magic+Counter, MP Up. Mystile, Ribbon. vs Fou-Lu (Breath of Fire IV)

Short Form

Ginny + Blue vs Brahman

Cait vs Fou

Jo'ou Ranbu · « **Reply #1 on:** October 29, 2012, 05:10:12 PM »

Ginny + Blue vs Brahman - Annnnnnnnnnd no. The buffing this team sports just doesn't allow them to survive Eternal Zero'd turns from Brahman with full busting and buffing in play.

Cait vs Fou - 6000 damage? I'm sorta disappointed there, that's not even a 2HKO to average under DL-legal scaling, methinks. That probably doesn't eke Dark Wave into survivability range, and I can't really buy Barrier/MBarrier affecting breaths, since they're an entirely distinct offense type that isn't hit either by defense or magic defense in-game, even if it's reduceable. Fou-Lu for Bluelike hype~~~

Laggy · « **Reply #2 on:** October 29, 2012, 07:23:47 PM »

Cait Sith vs Fou-Lu - Cait is so incredibly glad that there exist ways to reduce "breath" elemental damage in BoF4 or else I wouldn't let Shield stop Dark Wave (though if I'm misremembering this please correct me!). With that, this fight is kind of in the bag for him, as Fou-Lu can't OHKO and any form of damage will be countered by Slots. Sanctuary stalling would only be pertinent if he was faster, which he isn't.

EDIT: Yeah NEB convinced me that Shield shouldn't stop Dark Wave.

DjinnAndTonic · « **Reply #3 on:** October 30, 2012, 01:08:19 AM »

Blue + Ginny vs Brahman: I'm tempted to give this to Blue/Ginny for no reason other than their combined skillsets being broken. I mean... doesn't Reviva + Status Lock immortality already make the fight unloseable?

Jo'ou Ranbu · « **Reply #4 on:** October 30, 2012, 01:35:30 AM »

Not necessarily. Ginny's healing is junk and fully buffed Brahman offense is still quite frightening and MT-heavy.

Dark Holy Elf · « **Reply #5 on:** October 30, 2012, 03:54:00 AM »

Ginny + Blue vs Brahman

Status Lock does not stop stat downs in WA3. It doesn't stop instant death, either (which is bad because Brahman has that, so Virginia 100% needs Cosmic Cog). So yeah, Eternal Zero and puree the enemy team. Reviva helps but it's ST so it can't save both PCs every turn. Blue absolutely needs it to not die, so he has to spam it on himself once EZ sees play which is a losing proposition. Virginia might be able to make it through with high HP + ID immunity but even then, I dunno. Her healing sucks, as Snow notes. Honestly this feels like a pretty easy Brahman win compared to some of his actual Bluelike matches. ALSO Reviva counts as a death in Saga Frontier so yeah I wouldn't see Virginia's FP living through that. Think that seals the match shut.

Cait vs Fou: I don't buy Shield stopping breaths... Shield sucks in-game partially because it doesn't stop non-elemental magic and non-typed damage which is a lot of what you face once you finally get it, it gets no kneejerk respect checks from me. That said, Cait gets a single Comet2 in to dent Dark Wave into survivability (I think? Should actually check this) and may be able to tank things out from there, Haste + healing + good magic damage, although he has to watch his MP for sure.

Tide · « **Reply #6 on:** October 30, 2012, 06:14:20 AM »

Focus catches ID too. Not sure if that helps since Brave Seal vs. Cosmic Cog in a team setting, I tend to think Cosmic Cog being more useful due to having things that are more team oriented like Replay and Reset nonsense (Brave Seal's ATT boosts only help ST oriented offense).

Ginny's only useful healing (without Mystic Berries if you allowed it) is Raftina, who restores %HP based on your FP. This is of coursem suicide since it drops her to 0 FP and lulz to her defenses/options at that point. You could, in theory, try to set up some HP range which allows something like SOS FP Up to kick in so she can repeatedly full heal (heal loops like with Raq/Ceci on similar ideas), but my kneejerk is that this is not possible in practice since Brahman likely has varying levels of offense. Reset bullshit may prove me wrong here, but she can't cast Reset if she's already summoned, so.

Jo'ou Ranbu · « **Reply #7 on:** October 30, 2012, 12:54:50 PM »

Quote from: Dark Holy Elf on October 30, 2012, 03:54:00 AM

Ginny + Blue vs Brahman
Status Lock does not stop stat downs in WA3.

There goes any chance they had flying out the window.

DjinnAndTonic · « **Reply #8 on:** October 30, 2012, 05:40:07 PM »

Doesn't Status Lock keep your status from being taken away too? Like, if you had Poison + Status Lock, you wouldn't be able to heal the poison? My thought was that Reviva + Status Lock = persistent autolife status since Reviva doesn't cause an actual reset of status effects, just takes away an LP (which Ginny doesn't have to worry about).

Jo'ou Ranbu · « **Reply #9 on:** October 30, 2012, 05:57:30 PM »

If so (I have no idea if that's right, I remember that mechanic counting for stuff like FF7 Resist), Ginny has to worry about 0 FP, which completely hoses her defenses, offense -and- skillset. Considering Reviva's LP loss is a pretty strong argument for saying hitting 0 HP with it still counts as a death...

Laggy · « **Reply #10 on:** October 30, 2012, 09:06:35 PM »

Reviva does reset status, not sure where you got that idea. It's just an auto-revive effect that kicks in when the PC dies (the dying part is what causes them to lose LP, not Reviva) and then expires.

DjinnAndTonic · « **Reply #11 on:** October 31, 2012, 12:05:55 AM »

It does? Huh, I guess I got it confused with some other Autolife mechanics I've been looking at recently...

Laggy · « **Reply #12 on:** October 31, 2012, 12:57:57 AM »

Yeah reviewing what Shield actually blocks in FF7 I think I agree with the inclination not to respect it versus breath attacks.

That said, the fight is a complete shutout if Fou cannot OHKO Cait. Sanctuary be damned, he's slower and Cait has Slots, which means he's never, ever losing an attrition war.

Dark Wave is something like 1.57x PC HP by the stat topic and linearly goes down in damage, so... depends on how much damage you see Fou taking?

Dark Holy Elf · « **Reply #13 on:** October 31, 2012, 03:49:12 AM »

I absolutely wouldn't buy any "immunity to dispel" statuses to prevent Auto-Life from vanishing when it kicks in, and I don't think Status Lock is such a status anyway... but not certain. I forgot that Focus blocks death, so that does help some.

Laggy: Fou may still be able to win by chipping with some move as to not trigger a limit and then finishing the 2HKO with something else. Of course, Cait can heal normally in response to that (and get the limit next time a chip attempt is made), but that does slowly eat into his resources.

Jo'ou Ranbu · « **Reply #14 on:** October 31, 2012, 01:58:24 PM »

Thing is it just doesn't take much work to etch Cait into a limit. -Unscaled-, taking about 2/3s HP damage total gets Cait the gauge needed for his L2, which pretty much kills any odds of Fou-Lu realistically running Cait out of resources, methinks (what the fuck Megalixir effect). Healing just meshes too damned well with FF7-style limits.

Dark Holy Elf · « **Reply #15 on:** October 31, 2012, 03:12:37 PM »

... wait, Mog Dance heals MP? I've been underrating this Cait Sith setup then.

Jo'ou Ranbu · « **Reply #16 on:** October 31, 2012, 05:23:08 PM »

Yep. It's completely broken. Tonfa used that to great effect in his nin nin~ playthrough.

Laggy · « **Reply #17 on:** October 31, 2012, 10:01:27 PM »

Yes, Mog Dance being an Elixir is essentially why I said Cait does not lose attrition wars like... ever.

Jo'ou Ranbu · « **Reply #18 on:** October 31, 2012, 10:43:47 PM »

Also, a very good question: how much damage does Comet2 deal? >__________>

Dark Holy Elf · « **Reply #19 on:** November 01, 2012, 04:29:42 AM »

It should be a bit over 6000, eyeballing the stat topic figures and putting Comet2's multiplier in their place.

Honestly, if Cait isn't allowed to remove Shield, he loses for sure. (Shield cuts HP by 10%, bringing Cait down to within a hair of average.) Without that, Cait has 111% PCHP. Base Dark Wave does 132%... against Level 40 PCHP, which is a bit overlevelled (but on the other hand, stat boosters and masters and so on muck with things). I'd kneejerk Comet2 taking out around 1/6 of Fou's HP, which is practically a survival roll, and a few interps could send this either way. Really good fight if Shield can be removed (or if it, or Shell, reduces Dark Wave). Not sure what I make of this personally.

Cmdr_King · « **Reply #20 on:** November 01, 2012, 07:23:33 AM »

Well, broadly speaking the intent is that if there is flexibility in setups for twinks, it's built into to description. So I'd definitely hold Cait to having Shield equipped.

Cmdr_King · « **Reply #21 on:** November 04, 2012, 08:43:19 PM »

Short Form

Ginny + Blue vs Brahman

Cait vs Fou- At least, if no one's come up with anything by now I guess that's that.

News:

Author Topic: Diversionary Twink League Finals: (Read 1656 times)