Author Topic: Proving grounds interlude: FF7 heavy PCs!  (Read 1399 times)

superaielman

  • "Mordero daghain pas duente cuebiyar/The fear of death holds not my heart!"
  • Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 9630
    • View Profile
Proving grounds interlude: FF7 heavy PCs!
« on: April 05, 2013, 12:34:00 AM »
This was sparked by an argument in chat about who was the best of the FF7 heavy PC's. I decided to run this through a season of Heavy to see how the three fighters would do, and ended up going with Season 46 heavy. I subbed out Edwin (retired) and yuffie (duh) for Crono and Snow.

Cloud vs Galcian (SoA)
Cloud vs Sarah (S3)
Cloud vs Legretta (TotA)
Cloud vs Crono (CT)
Cloud vs Mary (ToD)
Cloud vs Marisa (FE8)
Cloud vs Cristo (DQ4)
Cloud vs Millenia (G2)
Cloud vs Geshp (SF2)
Cloud vs Snow (FF13)
Cloud vs Menardi (GS)
Cloud vs Maxim (Lufia 2)
Cloud vs Dryst (Brig)
Cloud vs Berserk (WA1)
Cloud vs Cecil (FF4)
Cloud vs Fenril (OB)

Yuffie vs Galcian (SoA)
Yuffie vs Sarah (S3)
Yuffie vs Legretta (TotA)
Yuffie vs Crono (CT)
Yuffie vs Mary (ToD)
Yuffie vs Marisa (FE8)
Yuffie vs Cristo (DQ4)
Yuffie vs Millenia (G2)
Yuffie vs Geshp (SF2)
Yuffie vs Snow (FF13)
Yuffie vs Menardi (GS)
Yuffie vs Maxim (Lufia 2)
Yuffie vs Dryst (Brig)
Yuffie vs Berserk (WA1)
Yuffie vs Cecil (FF4)
Yuffie vs Fenril (OB)

Cait Sith vs Galcian (SoA)
Cait Sith vs Sarah (S3)
Cait Sith vs Legretta (TotA)
Cait Sith vs Crono (CT)
Cait Sith vs Mary (ToD)
Cait Sith vs Marisa (FE8)
Cait Sith vs Cristo (DQ4)
Cait Sith vs Millenia (G2)
Cait Sith vs Geshp (SF2)
Cait Sith vs Snow (FF13)
Cait Sith vs Menardi (GS)
Cait Sith vs Maxim (Lufia 2)
Cait Sith vs Dryst (Brig)
Cait Sith vs Berserk (WA1)
Cait Sith vs Cecil (FF4)
Cait Sith vs Fenril (OB)                                                           
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
-------------------
<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

superaielman

  • "Mordero daghain pas duente cuebiyar/The fear of death holds not my heart!"
  • Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 9630
    • View Profile
Re: Proving grounds interlude: FF7 heavy PCs!
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2013, 01:20:11 AM »
I don't scale limit gains at all.


Cloud vs Galcian (SoA)- 2HKOs through easily enough. Cloud doesn't have enough offense to threaten Galcian.
Cloud vs Sarah (S3)- I don't let Sarah use her PC form. Boss form gets wrecked bad by an L1 limit.
Cloud vs Legretta (TotA)- The defense means Legretta can handle a limit.
Cloud vs Crono (CT)- Go first, 3HKO. I don't think Cloud can do anything to really deal with Crono blitzing- helps that Crono has good physical defense.
Cloud vs Mary (ToD)- Mary is bad.
Cloud vs Marisa (FE8)- Marisa goes first and doubles. I don't think Cross Slash will save him at that point.
Cloud vs Cristo (DQ4)- Triggers limit, laughs as limit tinks. Cross Slash gets owned Silence means that Cloud can't make a dent with his own magic.
Cloud vs Millenia (G2)- Spellbinding Eye.
Cloud vs Geshp (SF2)- All he has to do is survive a single L1. Geshp can manage that.
Cloud vs Snow (FF13)- Chip some, sentinal until Summon. I don't think Clou can overwhelm mediguard.
Cloud vs Menardi (GS)- Close fight. Ice magic helps some here, thanks to hitting weakness. Menardi's a slow starter on offense, so Cloud gets a couple of strong shots in earl.
Cloud vs Maxim (Lufia 2)- Donno. Maxim can stretch things out quite a ways and immunes Paralyze, but Cloud 2HKOs him. Thinking that Cloud's superior damage control carries the day here.
Cloud vs Dryst (Brig)- Counter triggers a limit. Power lets Dryst chip otherwise.
Cloud vs Cecil (FF4)- Immunes the status and should win the damage war.
Cloud vs Fenril (OB)- I don't think Paralyze lasts long enough for Cloud to finish off Fenril.

Yuffie vs Galcian (SoA)- Doubt the limit healing is good enough for this.
Yuffie vs Sarah (S3)- Wins on the average of assumptions, I think.
Yuffie vs Legretta (TotA)- Legretta can chip well enough.
Yuffie vs Crono (CT)- Conformer not being ITD really hurts Yuffie, she can't 2HKO Crono without it.
Yuffie vs Mary (ToD)
Yuffie vs Marisa (FE8)- Faster and ranged. Marisa might get lucky with evasion, but I doubt it.
Yuffie vs Cristo (DQ4)- Upper shuts out all of Yuffie's damage. He has to chip past Yuffie's limit healing which roughly takes a decade, but it's his fight.
Yuffie vs Millenia (G2)- SBE.
Yuffie vs Geshp (SF2)- Yuffie's limit is like 66% at L1. Geshp avoids that and absolutely pastes her.
Yuffie vs Snow (FF13)- I *think* she can overwhelm Mediguard.
Yuffie vs Menardi (GS)- Menardi, you suck .She can eventually build to the point of avoiding a Yuffie limit, but she takes... 4 physicals from Yuffie to do so? Too much.
Yuffie vs Maxim (Lufia 2)- Yuffie can't chip past Maxim's healing.
Yuffie vsDryst (Brig)- Dryst needs to go first and avoid getting 2HKOed. I think he can manage both of those.
Yuffie vs Cecil (FF4)- Going first and doing more damage maps up for Cecil's durability.
Yuffie vs Fenril (OB)- Good luck.

Cait Sith vs Galcian (SoA)- Smashes past healing.
Cait Sith vs Sarah (S3)- UGH. I think so?
Cait Sith vs  Legretta (TotA)- Limit. Legretta's damage is unpleasantly good.
Cait Sith vs Crono (CT)- I think he can chip past the healing limit offhand.
Cait Sith vs Mary (ToD)
Cait Sith vs Marisa (FE8)- Goes first. Cait needs way too much luck to win this.
Cait Sith vs Cristo (DQ4)- What the fuck is this shit. Cristo silences Cait Sith but can only smash past his limit with two back to back criticals. They also have to happen when Cait is at low enough HP. Cait just has absolutely no possible way to damage Cristo once his defenses are up, so this likely happens in spite of the odds being like 1/4096.
Cait Sith vs Millenia (G2)- Status.
Cait Sith vs Geshp (SF2)- Geshp's going first. That is ugly.
Cait Sith vs Snow (FF13)- Status.
Cait Sith vs Menardi (GS)- Cait's offense is worse than Yuffie but the healing is better. Menardi sucks as always.
Cait Sith vs Maxim (Lufia 2)- Status.
Cait Sith vs Dryst (Brig)- Status.
Cait Sith vs Cecil (FF4)- Immunes status but loses the slugfest.
Cait Sith vs Fenril (OB)- Uh. I don't think this fight ends. Cait has an argument if he can nail status turn one (Unlikely) or Fenril has an argument if Cait screws up his limit at some point. Abstain for now.         

Cait Sith: 8-6
Yuffie: 6-9
Cloud: 5-10
« Last Edit: April 05, 2013, 06:35:17 PM by superaielman »
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
-------------------
<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

Pyro

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1791
  • Mwahahaha
    • View Profile
Re: Proving grounds interlude: FF7 heavy PCs!
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2013, 01:57:21 AM »
I consider any level of the limit gauge they want to be half-full at start of fight.

Cloud vs Galcian (SoA): 2HKos without being done in by a limit.
Cloud vs Sarah (S3): Outslugs?
Cloud vs Legretta (TotA): Outslugs
Cloud vs Crono (CT): Physical durability lets him take it.
Cloud vs Mary (ToD)
Cloud vs Marisa (FE8): A limit would be ITE, and Marisa probably doesn't even 2HKO Cloud. Magic avoids the counters.
Cloud vs Cristo (DQ4): Silence and def buffing?
Cloud vs Millenia (G2): Spellbinding Eye.
Cloud vs Geshp (SF2): I think he goes first (9 range...). KOs before Cloud gets a turn.
Cloud vs Snow (FF13): I think Snow is in a losing battle as Cloud gets the first whack in, and he can't chip TOO much to lower his damage or he triggers a limit and dies.
Cloud vs Maxim (Lufia 2): Maxim can do more at the start of battle.
Cloud vs Dryst (Brig)
Cloud vs Berserk (WA1)
Cloud vs Cecil (FF4): Better physical durability and probably long-term damage lets him win?

Yuffie vs Galcian (SoA): Terminal spam, tank a limit.
Yuffie vs Sarah (S3)
Yuffie vs Legretta (TotA)
Yuffie vs Crono (CT)
Yuffie vs Mary (ToD)
Yuffie vs Marisa (FE8): Throw was ITE? Works.
Yuffie vs Cristo (DQ4)
Yuffie vs Millenia (G2)
Yuffie vs Geshp (SF2): Goes first, wallops.
Yuffie vs Snow (FF13): Like Cloud. The speed/damage let her do it. No chipping her damage down for him either.
Yuffie vs Maxim (Lufia 2)
Yuffie vs Dryst (Brig): Limit.
Yuffie vs Berserk (WA1)
Yuffie vs Cecil (FF4): Speed and damage probably do it?
Yuffie vs Fenril (OB)

Cait Sith vs Galcian (SoA): Eternal full healing? Whatevs.
Cait Sith vs Sarah (S3): Don't think Sarah can kill him through the healing.
Cait Sith vs Legretta (TotA): MA combo KOs?
Cait Sith vs Crono (CT): Crono doesn't have the resources for this.
Cait Sith vs Mary (ToD)
Cait Sith vs Marisa (FE8): Status magic.
Cait Sith vs Cristo (DQ4): Status magic.
Cait Sith vs Millenia (G2): Status Magic.
Cait Sith vs Geshp (SF2): Freeze4 x2
Cait Sith vs Snow (FF13): Status magic.
Cait Sith vs Maxim (Lufia 2): Status magic?
Cait Sith vs Dryst (Brig): Status Magic.
Cait Sith vs Berserk (WA1): Chip -> KO.
Cait Sith vs Cecil (FF4): Healing.


superaielman

  • "Mordero daghain pas duente cuebiyar/The fear of death holds not my heart!"
  • Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 9630
    • View Profile
Re: Proving grounds interlude: FF7 heavy PCs!
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2013, 03:10:14 AM »
*whips* would like a few votes on this!
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
-------------------
<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

Meeplelard

  • Fire Starter
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5356
    • View Profile
Re: Proving grounds interlude: FF7 heavy PCs!
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2013, 06:40:57 PM »
Cloud vs Galcian (SoA): Chips around a limit easily enough.
Cloud vs Sarah (S3): Ahaha no.
Cloud vs Legretta (TotA): Kneejerk.
Cloud vs Crono (CT): Crono's extremely good at damage manipulation due to his speed.  He's not dying to one Limit, and immunes Cross Slash's paralysis.
Cloud vs Mary (ToD): Respect for ToD characters not Rutee or Bruiser is sort of not there.
Cloud vs Marisa (FE8): Counters, Crits, etc. while Cloud has issues hitting her outside of his limit.
Cloud vs Cristo (DQ4): was going to vote Cristo until I remembered he is probably going to have issues avoiding a level 3 Limit, so Cloud's Finishing Touch wins this.
Cloud vs Millenia (G2): Spellbinding Eye.
Cloud vs Geshp (SF2): Outslugs easily enough.
Cloud vs Snow (FF13): Defensive fighters like Snow do not do well against Limit fighters.
Cloud vs Menardi (GS): Menardi has Instant Death!  Wait Cloud immunes that, never mind.
Cloud vs Maxim (Lufia 2): Maxim is, in many ways, Cloud-lite.
Cloud vs Dryst (Brig): Don't think Dryst can avoid a limit well, especially since Cloud can avoid counters with his Magic if need be.
Cloud vs Berserk (WA1): Just enough damage and durability to win the straight up slugfest.
Cloud vs Cecil (FF4): Paralysis is a status Cecil doesn't stop, so I think Cloud sneaks by.
Cloud vs Fenril (OB): Was thinking similarly to the above for Cecil until I remembered Fenril has Ianuki for a one shot blast to get through Cloud's Limit.

8-8.


Yuffie vs Galcian (SoA): Pretty much the same as Cloud.
Yuffie vs Sarah (S3): Same here.
Yuffie vs Legretta (TotA): I'm noticing...
Yuffie vs Crono (CT): A pattern...
Yuffie vs Mary (ToD): Here.
Yuffie vs Marisa (FE8): this one I had to think about a bit.  Yuffie's attacks are ranged so she'd avoid a Marisa Counter.  Thing is, she still has to get around evade and crits, and don't think Yuffie does.
Yuffie vs Cristo (DQ4): Unlike Cloud, Yuffie doesn't have an Instant Death Limit which makes all the difference in this fight.  Cristo just buffs for a while, then wins defensively, surviving Yuffie's one Limit.  As a side note, if Yuffie had a legitimate level 4, she might have won this -_-
Yuffie vs Millenia (G2): And back to mirroring.
Yuffie vs Geshp (SF2): Yuffie immunes Ice with Minerva Band, which is a big deal for Geshp's damage here.  Kneejerk her favor as a result.
Yuffie vs Snow (FF13): See Cloud.
Yuffie vs Menardi (GS): Menardi vs. an Instant Death immune. 
Yuffie vs Maxim (Lufia 2): Same here.
Yuffie vs Dryst (Brig): Given I said Conformer > FE Melee Counters, I have to be consistent here, so similar to Cloud.  Was about to vote Dryst until I remember I made that call earlier.
Yuffie vs Berserk (WA1): Same deal.
Yuffie vs Cecil (FF4): Minerva Band halves Holy, Cecil hates this a lot.
Yuffie vs Fenril (OB): Minerva Band doesn't halve Ianukis to the face though.

8-8.  Very similar to Cloud, due to the nature of how they are, despite some key differences.

Cait Sith vs Galcian (SoA): Cait Sith's GOOD Limit is significantly harder to avoid than Cloud and Yuffie's for purposes of bosses, and the effect is that much more drastic.
Cait Sith vs Sarah (S3): 2HKOs.
Cait Sith vs Legretta (TotA): Eventually gets damage to one shot through.
Cait Sith vs Crono (CT): Cait SIth loves the Instant Turn gained by a Limit; Crono can't do over 60% damage in one action, which is needed to win this,
Cait Sith vs Mary (ToD): Mary Disrespect.
Cait Sith vs Marisa (FE8): Meanwhile, FE Crits are an evil thing.
Cait Sith vs Cristo (DQ4): This fight comes down to what has a higher chance of happening first? Cristo double crittings, or Cait Sith getting Game Over with every other usage of Slots.  I really don't know what kicks in first...
Cait Sith vs Millenia (G2): Cait Sith is faster, opens with Frog, mocks from there.
Cait Sith vs Geshp (SF2): Yeah, double acting gets around limits.
Cait Sith vs Snow (FF13): Frog, next!
Cait Sith vs Menardi (GS): Menardi vs. an Instant Death immune with a full healing Limit. THAT will go over well.
Cait Sith vs Maxim (Lufia 2): Frog.  Maxim is not immune to all status, and hits nothing comparable to Frog.
Cait Sith vs Dryst (Brig): Frog again.
Cait Sith vs Berserk (WA1): Kneejerk.
Cait Sith vs Cecil (FF4): Cecil immunes Frog, but he has no legitimate way to get past the Healing.
Cait Sith vs Fenril (OB): Again, Ianuki is a godsend vs. these kinds of fighters.

10-5.  The one missing is Cait Sith vs. Cristo because that's pretty much a "roll dice for winner" scenario.  I suppose you could argue a scenario of Cait Sith alternating between Summons and Full Healing but that's STILL down to luck.
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Jo'ou Ranbu

  • Social Justice Steampunk Literature Character
  • New Age Retro Fucking Hipster
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 12981
  • Ah'm tuff fer mah size!
    • View Profile
Re: Proving grounds interlude: FF7 heavy PCs!
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2013, 09:00:29 PM »
For simplicity, I use Elfboy's old scaling method of 37.5%+25% * (actual gain rate) with one caveat: no limits below 40%. If the resulting math goes below 40%, I cap it at 40% straight. Also, I use a three-turn average involving two uses of a PC's best damage+a L1 - except in cases where the limit is outdamaged (like it happens with Yuffie), and, for Cait, for his turn-two damage, I use his half-HP physical as well. Average damage under these conditions is 4362.8, so Yuffie 2HKOs, Cloud 2HKOs at full HP, etc. AS ANOTHER CAVEAT: I also force the characters to select their limit levels like in-game.

Cloud Strife vs Sarah (S3) - Guys, Sarah is -so- bad.
Cloud Strife  vs Legretta (TotA) - ITD isn't enough here, and Cloud has absolutely no way of dodging her Searing Sorrow combo phase either. TotA bosses certainly don't lack damage control.
Cloud Strife vs Crono (CT) - Crono kinda lulzes at Cross Slash and has no problems avoiding anything more dangerous. Um yeah?
Cloud Strife vs Mary Argent (ToD) - Mary 4HKOs Cloud. That's so working out, guys.
Cloud Strife vs Marisa (FE8) - Speaking of damage control!
Cloud Strife vs Cristo (DQ4) - Speaking of -lack- of damage control. This is so sad. Cristo shuts down the physicals with Surround, shuts down the magic with Silence and then rams into Finishing Touch and dies.
Cloud Strife vs Millenia (G2) - Ground fresh hamburger.
Cloud Strife vs Geshp (SF2) - Jesus almighty. Cloud could have a case for a OHKO at full HP, but Geshp is faster (bigger threat range than average) and chips with physical+Freeze 4.
Cloud Strife vs Snow Villiers (FF13) - Well, if I see any one statusblocker covering Paralysis here, Cloud -dies-, because turn two status that's OPB = lol. Not inclined to do it right now, though. Snow's still gonna be a pain in the ass to take down, but he has issues chipping through Cross Slash.
Cloud Strife vs Maxim (Lufia 2) - Blocks Paralysis and ID, and limit healing keeps Cloud down, otherwise. The two are eerily similar in a sense.
Cloud Strife vs Dryst (Brig) - Dryst, chipping through the L1. Yeah no.
Cloud Strife vs Berserk (WA1) - lol ohko. Good thing too, because Cloud OHKOs back with Bolt 3. >_>
Cloud Strife vs Cecil Harvey (FF4) - EDIT: No paralysis!
Cloud Strife vs Fenril (OB) - Yeah, think Fenril's got the punch for this.

6-8. Not very good! Half the victories run against people who shouldn't even be in the division, and that includes two bonafide Lights.

Yuffie Kisaragi vs Sarah (S3) - Dear god, Sarah.
Yuffie Kisaragi vs Legretta (TotA) - Hilarious spoiling. Yuffie nulls ALL OF LEGRETTA'S DAMAGE BUT HER 4HKO PHYSICAL with Minerva. She gets owned hardcore by Clear Tranquil spamming.
Yuffie Kisaragi vs Crono (CT) - EDIT: Hmmm. Actually, Yuffie may be able to limp Crono out of offense here, and he's pretty bad at avoiding a L2. Sure.
Yuffie Kisaragi vs Mary Argent (ToD) - :mary:
Yuffie Kisaragi vs Marisa (FE8) - Re: Cloud.
Yuffie Kisaragi vs Cristo (DQ4) - Yeah, lack of an actual status limit guarantees a Cristo victory here.
Yuffie Kisaragi vs Millenia (G2) - Finger lickin' good.
Yuffie Kisaragi vs Geshp (SF2) - Without Freeze, Geshp can't chip here, and Yuffie gets an opening physical to boot. Baaaaaaaaad.
Yuffie Kisaragi vs Snow Villiers (FF13) - EDIT: Yuffie outpaces Mediguard forever and Snow doesn't chip through FF7 limits.
Yuffie Kisaragi vs Maxim (Lufia 2) - Hm. Yuffie only 3HKOs, but she always outpaces Maxim's healing, and he -needs- it to build up to an actually strong finisher. She also can chip Maxim with Throw, while he can't chip her -at all- without IPs. To boot, as an alternate (and probably more effective) strategy, physical/Throw+Bloodfest = dead Maxim and he has no way to chip through it without IPs. Against Cloud, the lower damage long-term helped, but Yuffie's damage is much less manipulable from the enemy side. Weird fight.
Yuffie Kisaragi vs Dryst (Brig) - Re: Cloud.
Yuffie Kisaragi vs Berserk (WA1) - Yuffie is faster and 2HKOs! Too bad Berserk lol ohkos still.
Yuffie Kisaragi vs Cecil Harvey (FF4) - Dear -god-.
Yuffie Kisaragi vs Fenril (OB) - Yup.

9-5. Considerably better, though the elemental reliance on some of the high-end Heavies here distorts the results to a degree. Having more stable (and better for spoilage purposes. Ranged > melee for your main offense if you -must- be physical) damage and better speed than Cloud both make a difference, though.

Cait Sith vs Sarah (S3) - sarah.jpg
Cait Sith vs Legretta (TotA) - Cait has issues with the defense here. She -will- get a turn to use her Mystic Arte, at which point she splatters him.
Cait Sith vs Crono (CT) - Unlike what happens with Yuffie and Cloud, Crono runs out of resources if he tries to get cute here. He just gets statused to me anyway, since CT lacks Frog/Mini-like status.
Cait Sith vs Mary Argent (ToD) - :mary:
Cait Sith vs Marisa (FE8) - Sure, I can see evade buying her time to avoid status.
Cait Sith vs Cristo (DQ4) - Yeah, potentially endless fight with a sliiiiiiiiiiiiiiim chance that Cait may actually turn the tide in his favor instead. Coinflip, really.
Cait Sith vs Millenia (G2) - Wow, he's faster.
Cait Sith vs Geshp (SF2) - Sure.
Cait Sith vs Snow Villiers (FF13) - Froggie heroes.
Cait Sith vs Maxim (Lufia 2) - Froggie heroes 2.
Cait Sith vs Dryst (Brig) - The hat looks great on an amphibian.
Cait Sith vs Berserk (WA1) - Heal-locks forever at worst.
Cait Sith vs Cecil Harvey (FF4) - I'm speechless.
Cait Sith vs Fenril (OB) - Oooh, Frog is turn one? Yeah, nvm.

10-4. Probably accurate enough. The I win status really helps out Cait, and having useful limits as a perk rather than a crutch makes all the difference.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 09:20:13 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Tide

  • Malice Tears
  • Mod Board Access
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1357
  • Cacophony of Sorrow
    • View Profile
Re: Proving grounds interlude: FF7 heavy PCs!
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2013, 05:56:10 AM »
Cloud vs Legretta (TotA) - Cloud has no answer to Searing Sorrow. Even if he spends every turn then casting Ice 3, it's not fast enough before Legretta gets the kill. Cross Slash scares her not.
Cloud vs Crono (CT) - Faster, if nothing else. Vigil hats also block paralysis to boot
Cloud vs Marisa (FE8) - Chips with a Slim sword at worst before smashing with a Silver or something.
Cloud vs Millenia (G2) - Get SBE'd and then proceed to get wrecked.
Cloud vs Menardi (GS) - Um.
Cloud vs Berserk (WA1) - Berserk Break speeds up Berserk to go before average. Cloud is exactly average without his physical durability being notably superior. OHKOing ensues.
Cloud vs Cecil (FF4) - Snow's got it. Cecil's healing keeps him afloat here as long as he can block paralysis. If not...well, Cecil triggers Cross Slash, then gets in deep when he loses 2-3 turns after. Alternatively, use their Dissidia forms. Cloud for pro mid-tier.

Yuffie vs Legretta (TotA) - Indeed, Minerva catches everything that is worth a damn in this match. CT spoilage ahoy.
Yuffie vs Crono (CT) - Well there's no paralysis. Healing Limit doesn't scare Crono because he's fast and will likely chip around it with the plethora of techs anyhow.
Yuffie vs Marisa (FE8) - More chipping
Yuffie vs Millenia (G2) - Get.Wrecked. Part 2
Yuffie vs Menardi (GS) - Free winz in Heavy guize.
Yuffie vs Berserk (WA1) - OHKOs easily
Yuffie vs Cecil (FF4) - More Minerva spoilage.

Cait Sith vs Legretta (TotA) - Cait Sith's only shot is for like a slot summon or for you to buy Toy Soldiers being able to chip past the last 25% of Legretta's HP. Otherwise, she throws in the Prism Ballet for free.
Cait Sith vs Crono (CT) - Outstalled straight up by Slots. gj Crono.
Cait Sith vs Marisa (FE8) - Kneejerk. Cait has an argument (depends on how you view FE as treating status, what your status threshold is and if Marisa crits turn 1) but...
Cait Sith vs Millenia (G2) - Faster, frogs. Good thing too, otherwise, more SBE
Cait Sith vs Menardi (GS) - Menardi is so free
Cait Sith vs Berserk (WA1) - Get wrecked Part 3. The WRECKONING
Cait Sith vs Cecil (FF4) - Damage.jpeg not found

Cloud: 1-6. Yes, Cloud. Pretend you are Heavy and only win against the greatest of the greats such as Menardi. Want a cookie? GOOD 4 U
Yuffie: 3-4. The healing limit and Conformer not getting nuked by taking damage helps Yuffie become an oddball spoiler when factoring in things like armor. Still not great, but better than Cloud.
Cait: 4-3. The only one who is Heavyish. Cait's a mid-tier Heavy, taking out PCs with transform and those without good damage with Slots. Thanks to Slots being a L2 instead of something higher. Pool had an even mix, based on what I can vote and no spoilers either. So, solid.
<napalmman> In Suikoden I, In Chinchirorin, what is it called when you roll three of the same number?
<@Claude> yahtzee

<Dreamboum> Everyone is learning new speedgames!
<Dreamboum> A bright future awaits us gentlemens
<Pitted> I'm learning league of legends
<Dreamboum> go fuck yourself

Dhyerwolf

  • Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4736
  • Here it comes, the story, of mankind's final glory
    • View Profile
Re: Proving grounds interlude: FF7 heavy PCs!
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2013, 06:50:10 AM »
Limits are approx 40/60/80/99. This means that as Cloud's L1 comes early on average, his kicks off at 32%

32/Irrel/86
Cloud vs Galcian (SoA)- Galcian
Cloud vs Legretta (TotA)- Legretta
Cloud vs Crono (CT)- Crono
Cloud vs Marisa (FE8)- Marisa
Cloud vs Cristo (DQ4)- - Cloud
Cloud vs Millenia (G2)
Cloud vs Geshp (SF2)- Geshp
Cloud vs Snow (FF13)- Cloud. Gut reaction, but...could be wrong here
Cloud vs Menardi (GS)- Standard Menardi  headache. 2.5 PC HP, faster than Cloud, buffs to 40% damage and then 3HKOs but...what can Cloud actually do to pre-empt this? His damage limit is L3, which she avoids. Otherwise he doesn't do enough damage in time. Menardi
Cloud vs Maxim (Lufia 2)- Maxim
Cloud vs Dryst (Brig)- Cloud
Cloud vs Berserk (WA1)- Berserk
Cloud vs Cecil (FF4)- Cecil doesn't block Paralysis (With any type of limiting scaling he really doesn't have too, because he is not avoiding L3s)
Cloud vs Fenril (OB)- Uh...realize limits can miss but effectively rarely do. But not making the call here.

47/65/80
Yuffie vs Galcian (SoA)
Yuffie vs Legretta (TotA)
Yuffie vs Crono (CT)- Yuffie. So Crono can't avoid the L2 that well, and Yuffie just 2HKOs him to me with L2+Conformer
Yuffie vs Marisa (FE8)-
Yuffie vs Cristo (DQ4)- The question of whether Cristo's defensive buffs are better than advertised. No vote
Yuffie vs Millenia (G2)
Yuffie vs Geshp (SF2)- Yuffie sure
Yuffie vs Snow (FF13)- Pass
Yuffie vs Menardi (GS)- Yuffie. Yuffie thing compared to Cloud is that having less HP just means in this case that there's less room to chip for someone like Menardi. Also limit comes earlier so Menardi eats the L3+early Conformers
Yuffie vs Maxim (Lufia 2)- Pass
Yuffie vs Dryst (Brig)- Yuffie
Yuffie vs Berserk (WA1)- Berserk
Yuffie vs Cecil (FF4)

37/39
Cait Sith vs Galcian (SoA)- Not really understanding this one, or at least not understanding the auto gut checks especially for non scalers. Cait Sith needs to lose 39% of his for Slots, Galcian (to me) can do about 65% of his HP in one shot. Galcian has a horde of items that he can chip with. Now, Galcian finishes this in 5 turns likely (he can chip, but he can't chip well), but if you have high enough Galcian HP respect, this should be an issue (Galcian has 2 PC HP, Cait does .36 to start and this slowly lowers, so he lives). Just a weird gut check because the best way to get around Cait is chipping.
Cait Sith vs Legretta (TotA)
Cait Sith vs Crono (CT)
Cait Sith vs Marisa (FE8)- Marisa is statused turn 2 to me, Marisa's damage is barely a 3HKO
Cait Sith vs Cristo (DQ4)
Cait Sith vs Millenia (G2)- Gut reaction that G2 speed matters at best half effect turn 1 because it's so randomized, so Millenia is probably closer to 96% speed versus Cait's 95%.
Cait Sith vs Geshp (SF2)
Cait Sith vs Snow (FF13)
Cait Sith vs Menardi (GS)
Cait Sith vs Maxim (Lufia 2)
Cait Sith vs Dryst (Brig)
Cait Sith vs Berserk (WA1)
Cait Sith vs Cecil (FF4)
Cait Sith vs Fenril (OB)- Toad is 90%, Fenril has 20% status resistance, Toad is turn 1 (and hoses physical damage)

Everyone beats Sarah and Mary (You should have kept Edwin in over Mary at least!)

Cait Sith 11-5 (Hates bosses generally, only bites it to 1 PC)
Yuffie 6-3 (Kind of got bored here, but hey, clearly in the Middle!)
Cloud 3-12
...into the nightfall.

superaielman

  • "Mordero daghain pas duente cuebiyar/The fear of death holds not my heart!"
  • Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 9630
    • View Profile
Re: Proving grounds interlude: FF7 heavy PCs!
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2013, 02:29:11 PM »
Quote
Yuffie vs Cristo (DQ4)- The question of whether Cristo's defensive buffs are better than advertised. No vote

How so? Defense matters in DQ4, and Upper/Buff raises it a fairly large amount.
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
-------------------
<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

Random Consonant

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2189
    • View Profile
Re: Proving grounds interlude: FF7 heavy PCs!
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2013, 08:25:10 PM »
Cloud vs Crono (CT) - Faster, doesn't really care about the lesser limits.
Cloud vs Mary (ToD) - Mary.
Cloud vs Marisa (FE8) - damage control
Cloud vs Cristo (DQ4)- Fail it up some why don'tcha Kiryl
Cloud vs Millenia (G2) - SBE.
Cloud vs Geshp (SF2) - Sure.
Cloud vs Menardi (GS) - Menardi durability deserves zero credit.
Cloud vs Maxim (Lufia 2) - Cloud triggers something dangerous before Maxim does.
Cloud vs Dryst (Brig) - Aaaand no.
Cloud vs Berserk (WA1)
Cloud vs Cecil (FF4)

Yuffie vs Crono (CT) - Crono likely rams into an L2.
Yuffie vs Mary (ToD)
Yuffie vs Marisa (FE8)
Yuffie vs Cristo (DQ4) - Buffs to not fearing a limit
Yuffie vs Millenia (G2)
Yuffie vs Geshp (SF2) - Sure.
Yuffie vs Menardi (GS)
Yuffie vs Maxim (Lufia 2) - Superior damage control.
Yuffie vs Dryst (Brig)
Yuffie vs Berserk (WA1)
Yuffie vs Cecil (FF4)

Cait Sith vs Crono (CT)
Cait Sith vs Mary (ToD)
Cait Sith vs Marisa (FE8)
Cait Sith vs Cristo (DQ4)
Cait Sith vs Millenia (G2)
Cait Sith vs Geshp (SF2)
Cait Sith vs Menardi (GS)
Cait Sith vs Maxim (Lufia 2)
Cait Sith vs Dryst (Brig)
Cait Sith vs Berserk (WA1)
Cait Sith vs Cecil (FF4)

superaielman

  • "Mordero daghain pas duente cuebiyar/The fear of death holds not my heart!"
  • Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 9630
    • View Profile
Re: Proving grounds interlude: FF7 heavy PCs!
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2013, 02:05:49 PM »
Cait Sith>Yuffie>Cloud for results. Not too surprising, but still cool to fiddle with the concept. Thanks to everyone for voting!
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
-------------------
<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...