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Author Topic: Season of Champions week 1: Infinite AtLC hype.  (Read 2985 times)

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Season of Champions week 1: Infinite AtLC hype.
« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2013, 11:26:14 AM »
I'm not saying Ramsus couldn't stand to downgrade to Light! Which he probably oughta, committed counter games off below average speed and otherwise shoddy slugfesting stats, woo fucking hoo.

EDIT: *Checks Ramsus HP and calcs off the topic's damage average.*

...

holy crap 0.47x PC HP ramsus oh god why you get ohkoed by -ryudo-

* Jo'ou Ranbu flushes Ramsus straight to Low Light.

This guy ONCE BEAT SASARAI~

EDIT: Also, Snowfire, amount of PCs faced is irrelevant to my boss scaling too! See the boss Rosch for Puny flags planted on my front yard. Also, the fundamental problem with counter stances that commit the user's turn is that anyone ever outside of bosses without some way to waste their turn (with either non-offense or just waiting) just doddles around without ramming them, which leads the -user- to lose the waiting game if he/she/it's slower. Guard Scorpion isn't fast, so uh stance spam doesn't really work - hell, it doesn't work even when it's -faster-, because it needs to use Search Scope to attack beforehand (I wouldn't chalk that down to an AI quirk myself, don't think many people do). Just wait out the stance and attack on Scope turns even if he -doubles-. rofl lolim to extreme.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2013, 01:01:21 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

SnowFire

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Re: Season of Champions week 1: Infinite AtLC hype.
« Reply #26 on: May 17, 2013, 02:58:12 PM »
Quote
which leads the -user- to lose the waiting game if he/she/it's slower.

Depends on interp.  I certainly think that if a match stalls out between a PC and a boss, the boss wins, because in-game you aren't advancing if you don't actually defeat the boss.  So the Ramsus-with-perfect-move-choice-hype is "spam counterstance forever, if Peppita doesn't OHKO then 'win' by pro-boss tiebreak."  Doubles don't really matter.  Same with Guard Scorpion - he never drops the counter stance and never attacks, and forces PCs to attack into it or else lose by default, is the potential hype at least.  (To which I'd simply not allow the continual spamming of counterstance to deal with.)

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Season of Champions week 1: Infinite AtLC hype.
« Reply #27 on: May 17, 2013, 03:25:58 PM »
I generally take the opposite interp: if the counterspammer forces a stalling fest with the move but would otherwise lose the slugfest and is slower, thus never getting an opening to take potshots, I default the victory to the opposing dueller - gets more damage in the long term, gets it in first. I'll concede that this can be interpreted many ways, but I think it's bad form to hand the win to the one who is clearly in the disadvantage in a holistic race.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Magic Fanatic

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Re: Season of Champions week 1: Infinite AtLC hype.
« Reply #28 on: May 17, 2013, 03:30:56 PM »
Heavy:

Valvalis (FF4) vs Luca Blight (S2) - Even if you consider FF4a for Val, I'm thinking she still takes this, as I kind of consider Luca going up against 17 people that can competently use a Lightning Rune.  Not at all the same time mind, but still.

Middle:

Nina (BoF1) vs Alice Elliot (SH1) - Even ignoring going crazy, Alice damage and healing is a lot more expensive than Nina's damage and healing.

Clear Tranquil

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Re: Season of Champions week 1: Infinite AtLC hype.
« Reply #29 on: May 17, 2013, 06:07:19 PM »
Kaboom might be 95% average speed/faster but Kaboom is not very good unless the target has a generous hit box (number of hits based on enemy hit box size, book Djinn sent me says 12 max if I remember right) Hmmm DM% well it's kind of like Peppita's variant of Mirror Slice and can be quite powerful in Power Dance > Kaboom chain depending but that might make it slower, hmmm.

Peppita's fastest option is actually surprisingly her short O spam (spamming her short O as long as she has the fury/until the enemy is dead) which can even outperform Maria's Scatter Beam spam in specific circumstances/under the right conditions, I think this usually requires at least Increase HP damage though.

Incidentally Peppita's own counters are kind of sort of counter stance counters (at least I've seen some DLrs refer to them as such before) though also in game if she's using a short O and the enemy decides to attack as she goes to use it then her counter animation/counter O will trigger instead.

Though personally I don't know what a Ramsus is, what kind of hit box it has or if it has anything Peppita could counter~

Edit - This topic might help for skill times and such -

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/536705-star-ocean-till-the-end-of-time/48222873

(chain times and DPS stuff, there's lots of shiny numbers and maths and stuffs~)

(these tests were based on the NA version of the game if I remember right, some skills including Peppita's dances execute faster in EU/UK/etc versions, for example Power Dance cancelling/chaining is pretty much instantaneous in the EU/etc versions >.>)
« Last Edit: May 17, 2013, 06:38:32 PM by Clear Tranquil »
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Lance

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Re: Season of Champions week 1: Infinite AtLC hype.
« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2013, 05:54:47 AM »
Godlike
Profound Darkness (PS4) vs Lady (SH3)

Heavy
Raquel Applegate (WA4) vs Demi (PS4)
Valvalis (FF4) vs Luca Blight (S2)
KOS-MOS (XSs) vs Chaz Ashley (PS4)

Middle
Kahran Ramsus (XG) vs Peppita Rosetti (SO3)
Juan (S3) vs Hahn Mahlay (PS4)
Agrias Oaks (FFT) vs Justin (G1)
Nina (BoF1) vs Alice Elliot (SH1)

Light
Shabon (S3) vs Erk (FE7)
Jaffar (FE7) vs Sara (BoF1)
Palom (FF4) vs Black Wizard (FF1)
Titania (FEs) vs Blastoise (PKMN)

Yoshiken

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Re: Season of Champions week 1: Infinite AtLC hype.
« Reply #31 on: May 18, 2013, 11:39:43 PM »
re: counter-stance arguments: The idea that someone should auto-win by being able to stall out a match seems pretty ridiculous to me. If a match won't end because of some kind of move/combination of moves, I tend to pretty much rule out those moves. Depends on circumstances and stuff, but if I could vote on it, I imagine I'd be against Ramsus pretty heavily here.

Also, for argument's sake, Guard Scorpion's stance lasts a set amount of time, so he's incredibly easy to beat - any PC with a wait command can just let the stance end, attack before it's up again, repeat. Helps that it's stupidly slow and is roughly a 2.5HKO to front-row characters.

Pyro

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Re: Season of Champions week 1: Infinite AtLC hype.
« Reply #32 on: May 19, 2013, 01:20:32 PM »
Godlike:

Isolde (MK)  vs Fou-Lu (BoF4): Formchain and besides that just too much better on durability.
Heat (DDS) vs Ryu (BoF3)
Menardi (GS) vs Melfice (G2)
Profound Darkness (PS4) vs Lady (SH3): Ugly match.

Heavy:

Arc (AtLC) vs Lady Harken (WA1): Eh. Sure.
Raquel Applegate (WA4) vs Demi (PS4): If NEB says so...
Valvalis (FF4) vs Luca Blight (S2): So Spin was that awesome? Val for Godlike I guess. Or DNR.
KOS-MOS (XSs) vs Chaz Ashley (PS4): Shut up and Explode.

Middle:

Kahran Ramsus (XG) vs Peppita Rosetti (SO3): No hype for Ramsus from me.
Juan (S3) vs Hahn Mahlay (PS4): Scarf, OHKO.
Agrias Oaks (FFT) vs Justin (G1): Gets through the evade and wins with damage.
Nina (BoF1) vs Alice Elliot (SH1): Way, waaaaay better at stall-healing.

Light:

Shabon (S3) vs Erk (FE7): Apparently?
Jaffar (FE7) vs Sara (BoF1): Way too much durability.
Palom (FF4) vs Black Wizard (FF1): I guess so.
Titania (FEs) vs Blastoise (PKMN): If the NEBs say so.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Season of Champions week 1: Infinite AtLC hype.
« Reply #33 on: May 19, 2013, 04:56:50 PM »
Val for Godlike I guess.

She is in Godlike! Has been since like 2006.

Actually almost everyone in this division (save the Godlikes) are currently a division higher than they are listed.

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Pyro

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Re: Season of Champions week 1: Infinite AtLC hype.
« Reply #34 on: May 19, 2013, 05:30:10 PM »
I had always thought that was a kind of fluke rather than her rightful division. Spin > Magic was news to me.

SnowFire

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Re: Season of Champions week 1: Infinite AtLC hype.
« Reply #35 on: May 19, 2013, 06:10:03 PM »
I'm still really not inclined to give Val any credit for that.  Oh boy your ITEMCASTS don't work oh noes.  And FuSoYa / Rydia's magic works just fine on Valvalis in the re-fight, where she's stuck in the tornado sprite constantly.  This strikes me as system obscura, and using that too much can lead to a lot of weird results.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Season of Champions week 1: Infinite AtLC hype.
« Reply #36 on: May 19, 2013, 06:33:42 PM »
I'm fine with not giving her magic immunity, less fine with saying she's weak to magic while spinning which she is manifestly not! Taking her magical evade as equal to her physical evade feels like a good compromise.

Refight very obviously doesn't have the same spin mechanic so I don't know why you'd bring that up.

I think she's Godlike anyway but uh FF4 boss speed, it varies dramatically with which version of the game you're talking about so whatever @ how people want to take them.

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superaielman

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Re: Season of Champions week 1: Infinite AtLC hype.
« Reply #37 on: May 19, 2013, 08:20:21 PM »
I don't think Val's quick in any version. She does counter when you knock her out of spin though, which explains some of that.

(To Snowfire) And it isn't just itemcasts, healing and every type of possible magic you can throw at Val there is walled. I'm not sure how much I respect it, but that is more due to issues with Spin.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2013, 08:21:54 PM by superaielman »
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Season of Champions week 1: Infinite AtLC hype.
« Reply #38 on: May 19, 2013, 08:23:01 PM »
She's very fast in the PSX version. I had some tests in an old stat thread but I don't think they were ported over.

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