Proving Grounds Middle: Infinite Chrom loop.

[superaielman]

Aika- Confuse! Healing! Magic immunity! No damage to speak of!
Poo- Blame Magic and the EB topic. Curious as to how he'll hang in this field.
Chrom- See topic title.

Aika vs Erim (Lufias)
Aika vs Auron (FFX)
Aika vs Jerin (Lufia 1)
Aika vs Blue Mage (FF5)
Aika vs Chie (Pers4)
Aika vs Renee (MK)
Aika vs Argilla (DDS)
Aika vs Ramza (FFT)
Aika vs Squall (FF8)
Aika vs Hope (FF13)
Aika vs Felius (XF)
Aika vs  Ziggy (XSs)

Poo vs Erim (Lufias)
Poo vs Auron (FFX)
Poo vs Jerin (Lufia 1)
Poo vs Blue Mage (FF5)
Poo vs Chie (Pers4)
Poo vs Renee (MK)
Poo vs Argilla (DDS)
Poo vs Ramza (FFT)
Poo vs Squall (FF8)
Poo vs Hope (FF13)
Poo vs Felius (XF)
Poo vs  Ziggy (XSs)

Chrom vs Erim (Lufias)
Chrom vs Auron (FFX)
Chrom vs Jerin (Lufia 1)
Chrom vs Blue Mage (FF5)
Chrom vs Chie (Pers4)
Chrom vs Renee (MK)
Chrom vs Argilla (DDS)
Chrom vs Ramza (FFT)
Chrom vs Squall (FF8)
Chrom vs Hope (FF13)
Chrom vs Felius (XF)
Chrom vs  Ziggy (XSs)

[superaielman]

Aika vs Erim (Lufias)- ID. Erim easily has enough time to get it here.
Aika vs Auron (FFX)- This defies my ability to describe. Auron immunes poison but can't immune confuse. He goes first and zombie breaks Aika. The best case for Aika here is that confuse disables Auron's counters. Even if it does that, she is constantly hitting Auron for next to no damage (her damage with the swimerang is sub Cristo). Masamune's offense going up as he gets lower on HP really hurts Aika here as well.  She loses this in spite of the constant doubles, preventing Auron from ever getting an overdrive, *and* inflicting him with status. It is truly an amazing fight. Of course if confuse doesn't disable his counters, she is just fucked.
Aika vs Jerin (Lufia 1)- Confuse.
Aika vs Blue Mage (FF5)- Confuse is out. So. Aika throws up Delta shield every round. Blue mage responds with physicals. Aika can heal/attack on double turns. That... should be enough? Aika's reasonably quick, BM is a little below average. BM's offense is also *terrible* (500 to 6500 kill point), enough so that she can afford to get away with full healing once every six turns.
Aika vs Chie (Pers4)- Confuse. If Midori's evasion lasted the whole fight I'd switch votes. As is, no.
Aika vs Renee (MK)- Too much offense offhand.
Aika vs Argilla (DDS)- Am inclined to see her immuning the confuse, which is real bad news. Aika lacks the damage to take advantage of her really bad defense.
Aika vs Ramza (FFT)- Fire Shield+Confuse blocker shuts down all of Aika's offense.
Aika vs Squall (FF8)- Fighter.
Aika vs Hope (FF13)-Confuse fucks Hope so badly. Allowing him Commando would help (some) with that, but still kneejerk that he's still fighting a massively uphill battle in that case.
Aika vs Felius (XF)- Uh. Mmm. Yikes. I think this depends on if Aika's confuse disables counter attacks. If it doesn't, Felius's small chance of countering or critting should tip the fight. If it does disable counters, Felius is fighting an uphill battle due to Aika's speed.
Aika vs Ziggy (XSs)- Basic XS1 physicals were trash.

Aika: 5-6

[ThePiggyman]

Aika vs Auron (FFX)- This defies my ability to describe. Auron immunes poison but can't immune confuse. He goes first and zombie breaks Aika. The best case for Aika here is that confuse disables Auron's counters. Even if it does that, she is constantly hitting Auron for next to no damage (her damage with the swimerang is sub Cristo). Masamune's offense going up as he gets lower on HP really hurts Aika here as well.  She loses this in spite of the constant doubles, preventing Auron from ever getting an overdrive, *and* inflicting him with status. It is truly an amazing fight. Of course if confuse doesn't disable his counters, she is just fucked.

Auron actually gets Confuse Ward (50% protection) from a storebought armor, in Luca after obtaining the Airship. I'd think that would seal the deal.

On another note, I don't think it's in Aika's best interest to attack Auron AFTER he's been confused. With how bad her offense is, wouldn't it be more effective to have Auron wail on himself, and just Defend or Focus in the mean time? And if Aika's defending, she can last longer on the turns where Auron doesn't hit himself. It still ends up being a pretty chancy fight, but I think the only time Aika wants to attack is to inflict the Confusion.

[SnowFire]

Piggyman: Skies confuse is "spam your basic physical at targets other than yourself."  So it's worse in the DL than in-game since physicals are usually pretty sad in-game, but some casts have actually decent physicals.  (I guess you could apply some kind of hand-wavey damage penalty, but eh.)

[superaielman]

Also, Aika's confuse ignores resistance. Aika can't do much else to Auron. She does have to reinflict confuse since it wears off. She can mix in fire damage. Mmm. inflict confuse (She really does not want to be hit with magic break), spirit charge, use Omega Psyclone as a finisher? That might be enough.

[ThePiggyman]

Piggyman: Skies confuse is "spam your basic physical at targets other than yourself."  So it's worse in the DL than in-game since physicals are usually pretty sad in-game, but some casts have actually decent physicals.  (I guess you could apply some kind of hand-wavey damage penalty, but eh.)

Oh, right, derp. Was thinking FFX Confuse instead of Skies Confuse. My bad, haha.

[SnowFire]

Also, Aika's confuse ignores resistance. Aika can't do much else to Auron. She does have to reinflict confuse since it wears off. She can mix in fire damage. Mmm. inflict confuse (She really does not want to be hit with magic break), spirit charge, use Omega Psyclone as a finisher? That might be enough.

Omega Psyclone: 505 MT Fire Magic, 12 SP

Average: 728
Kill Point: 1820

Omega Psyclone finishes absolutely nothing.  It's one of the most underwhelming special moves in the game.  There's an even argument that Auron can counter it, since while it does magic it isn't technically classed as magic, so regular Counter might just kick in (no need for Magic Counter), but it doesn't matter, because Aika is screwed.

[superaielman]

The point is to avoid Auron's highest damage since Masamune's damage goes up as his HP goes down. I'm very aware of how bad Aika's damage is. Auron's damage isn't worth a damn either and he's giving up a lot of turns to Aika! Which probably amounts to not much changing in the fight. The magic damage hits his worse defensive stat though, which helps a little. It's also the largest chunk of damage she can get in a single attack.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Chrom vs Erim (Lufias): Chrom both doubles and has a 4-3, so he should manage.
Chrom vs Auron (FFX): Auron opens with Power Break. Chrom does double him, though, and both counter each other. Chrom 6HKOs, but doubles, so he'll win after 3 exchanges, though the nature of counters means Auron gets his third hit in first. And... looks like Auron 3HKOs too. Although... Chrom can heal the first hit off without triggering a counter, then finish his 3-rounding without Auron being able to 3HKO him.
Chrom vs Blue Mage (FF5): Time Slip or something like that.
Chrom vs Renee (MK): Close one, I think Chrom is somewhat close to outslugging here? But not quite, since I see Renee as faster.
Chrom vs Argilla (DDS): Wins the speed tiebreak to me, and has a 2HKO here.
Chrom vs Ramza (FFT): Better.
Chrom vs Squall (FF8): *blink* WTF. Okay, from what I can tell, Squall barely goes first, and barely survives a Chrom turn plus counter. His 2HKO is solid enough here. Strictly speaking Chrom has a decent shot with Aether but I think my stance on such things is pretty clear.
Chrom vs Hope (FF13): Haste/Protect, then heal. Should be able to out-tough from there.
Chrom vs Felius (XF): 3HKOs first.
Chrom vs Ziggy (XSs): As above? Assuming no doubling happens here. Then this just gets ugly.

Chrom 5-5

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Poo vs Erim (Lufias) - Poo runs out of Starstorms before taking out less than half Erim's HP and runs out of healing before killing her this way. He's better off with his UNARMED PHYSICAL FOR THAT 3X BLUNT WEAKNESS. Which... still 12HKOs Erim. She only 3HKOs Poo with her best damage anyway and he has constant 3-2s on her, BUUUUUUUUUUT... DEVASTATION WAVE. She gets roughly seven shots of it before Poo kills, assuming no crits come into play... but his crit rate is 5%. Yeah, think she barely edges it out. So much failure.
Poo vs Auron (FFX) - Auron opens with Magic Break and Poo now 6HKOs with Starstorm - i.e. he can't ever hope to outrace him. Confusion is a bad bet, since Auron can just troll-turtle with Sentinel and counters should ignore it. Even with constant doubles, Poo simply can't really make any headway, and if Auron decides to ZOMBIE him after Magic Break, things just get -ugly-. Shield works against him rather than in his favor here, Auron can just stall out and a counter war will favor him rather than Poo.
Poo vs Jerin (Lufia 1) - Mirror. The end.
Poo vs Blue Mage (FF5) - Status. All of it.
Poo vs Chie Satonaka (Pers4) - Hmmm, Shield. This leads Chie to using Skull Cracker instead, which nets her a win even if it's turn two, because P4 Confuse is nutsily good. Sure, I'll bite. And I think Chie even resists Confusion herself.
Poo vs Renee Kearse (MK) - Poo lets Renee get three turns and dies.
Poo vs Argilla (DDS) - Poo really sucks against other healers. He can't even exploit Argilla's egregious pdur and I think she immunes Brainshock. This is terrible.
Poo vs Ramza Beoulve (FFT) - He can at least do this much. Aegis means he's not 3HKOing with Starstorm, but he has enough shots of healing to manage anyway.
Poo vs Squall Leonhart (FF8) - Poo gets 2HKOed and needs a double to circumvent a limit. And he needs all his three Starstorms to do it (he can't 3HKO even with Starstorm Omega x2 + Freeze Omega). Which leaves him with two shots of healing left if he wants to use three SS shots. So, he needs a 5-4... which he -does get-. Man. Poo doesn't get to escape heal-locks often. EDIT: wait, Shield makes it a lot cleaner. Yeah.
Poo vs Hope Estheim (FF13) - Veil and infinite healing = infinite failure for Poo.
Poo vs Felius Arwin (XF) - Felius isn't very good. Shield also helps out.
Poo vs  Ziggurat 8 (XSs) - Poo badly walls fire damage. This doesn't go anywhere.

4-8. In spite of the great speed and okay durability, Poo doesn't quite have the punch even for the higher tiers of Middle. The resources just suck ass and he fails at attrition with how terrible his alternative damage options are. Brainshock would be a much neater status on someone with at least three times his resource depth. Even his buffing needs work - he's okay against physical fighters, but even Middle-calibur healers make him break a sweat.

Chrom vs Erim (Lufias) - Surely.
Chrom vs Auron (FFX) - Yeah, why not.
Chrom vs Jerin (Lufia 1) - Chrom needs to connect two Aethers in a row to KO Jerin and he doesn't even heal-lock her at base. She probably lands Chaos before things get ugly and coasts.
Chrom vs Blue Mage (FF5) - Something Blue Magey.
Chrom vs Chie Satonaka(Pers4) - Miori Shirt.
Chrom vs Renee Kearse (MK) - I guess.
Chrom vs Argilla (DDS) - 2HKOs first! I'm pretty sure Javelins won't tilt this the other way - Materadyne to the rescue at worst.
Chrom vs Ramza Beoulve (FFT) - Ramza. =/
Chrom vs Squall Leonhart (FF8) - Sure, I'll bite.
Chrom vs Hope Estheim (FF13) - Yeah, sure. I don't respect Chrom triggering two Aethers in a row pretty much ever.
Chrom vs Felius Arwin (XF)[/b] - Felius and not being very good.
Chrom vs  Ziggurat 8 (XSs) - Why not.

5-7. Fairly typical, I guess. Beating Auron was the small surprise.

[Random Consonant]

Poo vs Erim (Lufias) - yep.
Poo vs Auron (FFX) - Sure.
Poo vs Jerin (Lufia 1) - Mirror.
Poo vs Blue Mage (FF5)
Poo vs Renee (MK) - Poo ain't blitzin' Renee down any time soon.
Poo vs Ramza (FFT) - Ramza kind of not capable enough here.
Poo vs Squall (FF8) - Sure.

Chrom vs Erim (Lufias) - Yep.
Chrom vs Auron (FFX) - Possibly.
Chrom vs Jerin (Lufia 1)- Speed screws up things enough.
Chrom vs Blue Mage (FF5) - Yep.
Chrom vs Renee (MK) - thinking the summon gives her enough of an edge here
Chrom vs Ramza (FFT) - Ramza kind of not capable here either.
Chrom vs Squall (FF8)- Chrom does only need one aether to win this, I think, but eh, gut goes against such things.

[Dhyerwolf]

Aika vs Erim (Lufias)
Aika vs Auron (FFX)
Aika vs Jerin (Lufia 1)
Aika vs Blue Mage (FF5)
Aika vs Chie (Pers4)- Dat Accuracy
Aika vs Renee (MK)
Aika vs Argilla (DDS)
Aika vs Ramza
Aika vs Squall (FF8)
Aika vs Hope (FF13)
Aika vs Felius (XF)
Aika v extraction...

Poo vs Erim (Lufias)
Poo vs Auron (FFX)
Poo vs Jerin (Lufia 1)
Poo vs Blue Mage (FF5)
Poo vs Chie (Pers4)
Poo vs Renee (MK)
Poo vs Argilla (DDS)
Poo vs Ramza (FFT)
Poo vs Squall (FF8)
Poo vs Hope (FF13)
Poo vs Felius (XF)
Poo vs  Ziggy (XSs)

Aika 6-6 (Respectable spoiler type)
Poo 4-8 (Middle, but a good one)

[Luther Lansfeld]

Chrom vs Erim (Lufias)
Chrom vs Auron (FFX)
Chrom vs Jerin (Lufia 1)
Chrom vs Blue Mage (FF5) - Level 5 Death
Chrom vs Chie (Pers4)
Chrom vs Renee (MK)
Chrom vs Argilla (DDS)
Chrom vs Ramza (FFT)
Chrom vs Squall (FF8)
Chrom vs Hope (FF13)
Chrom vs Felius (XF)
Chrom vs Ziggy (XSs)

8-2

[VySaika]

Aika vs Erim (Lufias) - Not enough damage.
Aika vs Auron (FFX) - Sure, I'll buy it.
Aika vs Jerin (Lufia 1) - Confuse, I guess.
Aika vs Blue Mage (FF5) - FF5 Blue spells can be cast while silenced, and a fair few ignore reflect. Gives 'em an argument to ignore Delta Shield, and with DS and COnfuse both out, Aika's got jack shit.
Aika vs Chie (Pers4) - Confuse, I guess.
Aika vs Renee (MK) - No way in hell does she win this.
Aika vs Argilla (DDS) - Argilla immunes confuse? *checks topic* Why yes, she does. Well then, immune confuse and heal all day.
Aika vs Ramza (FFT) - RAmza has good elemental and status blocking options if nothing else.
Aika vs Squall (FF8) - Yes, force squall to use only his basic physical. See how well that works out for you.
Aika vs Hope (FF13)
Aika vs Felius (XF)
Aika vs  Ziggy (XSs) - Confuse, I guess.

Aika: 3-7. Has two tricks, if either one doesn't work she tends to cry.

Poo vs Erim (Lufias)- No.
Poo vs Auron (FFX) - Yeah, Magic Break + Zombie = badtimes for Poo.
Poo vs Jerin (Lufia 1) - Even without Mirror, she wins the resource war.
Poo vs Blue Mage (FF5) - FF5a Vampire gives him fits.
Poo vs Chie (Pers4) - Skull Cracker, I suppose? I don't recall using it much, but topic says it's accurate and P4 confuse is p.good.
Poo vs Renee (MK) - Renee and the mana together pile on too much pressure, and Poo's shield doesn't help here.
Poo vs Argilla (DDS) - Wins the resource war.
Poo vs Ramza (FFT) - Starstorm finally useful.
Poo vs Squall (FF8) - Me and squall voting.
Poo vs Hope (FF13)
Poo vs Felius (XF)
Poo vs  Ziggy (XSs) - Ziggy can't pressure hard enough.

Poo: 2-8. :flush:

Chrom vs Erim (Lufias) - Not sure here.
Chrom vs Auron (FFX) - Riiight, Exalted Falchion can be used for healing. Hmm...heal and win the counter war, I suppose?
Chrom vs Jerin (Lufia 1) - Huh, I underestimated her speed.
Chrom vs Blue Mage (FF5) - ....yup, 20/20. L5 Death does it's job.
Chrom vs Chie (Pers4) - Evade...plus I'm inclined to let physical persona attacks count as "ranged" physicals to avoid counters.
Chrom vs Renee (MK) - My gutcheck respect for Chrom's damage is a bit higher then the stat topic has him, so this tilts an otherwise close fight.
Chrom vs Argilla (DDS) - Hmm. Both phase based so who wins the go first coinflip? If Chrom does, he wins. If Argilla does...she wins unless he procs Aether even once. Gonna average that out to a win for Chrom.
Chrom vs Ramza (FFT) - FFT shields, as awesome as they are, not up for this job.
Chrom vs Squall (FF8) - Squall.
Chrom vs Hope (FF13)
Chrom vs Felius (XF)
Chrom vs  Ziggy (XSs) - Clearly Ziggy counts as Heavy Armor and gets reamed by a Noble Rapier. Or just gets outslugged normally, that works too.

Chrom: 5-4. Solid middle, could go on a run, could run into a bad draw.

[SnowFire]

Aika vs Erim (Lufias)
Aika vs Auron (FFX)
Aika vs Blue Mage (FF5)
Aika vs Ramza (FFT)
Aika vs Squall (FF8)
Aika vs Hope (FF13)
Aika vs Felius (XF) - Felius doesn't lose THAT much damage by reverting to physicals, although the accuracy is a problem.  Think he still 2HKOs, anyway, and Aika isn't getting the doubles fast enough here.  EDIT: Never mind, he loses enough.
Aika vs  Ziggy (XSs)

4-4.

Chrom vs Erim (Lufias)
Chrom vs Auron (FFX)
Chrom vs Blue Mage (FF5) - I'm pretty sure I'm okay with letting Chrom voluntarily lose a level if he wants.  But sure, Time Slip or something.
Chrom vs Ramza (FFT)
Chrom vs Squall (FF8)
Chrom is getting 4 hits in here.  At a 26% chance per attack, though, that's a 70% chance of at least 1 Aether.  Good enough for me.  Although...  Squall can just choose not to attack and let Chrom attack him.  If Chrom's Aether fires off in attacking Squall, then he's screwed as Chrom just did 80 FE13 damage according to the stat topic, which is leaving Squall at like 18% health and with plenty of time to limit Chrom into oblivion.  Huh.  Although then, if Squall is doing nothing, Chrom can chip with Javelins....  blargh, that probably goes back to Chrom then.   Well, amusing match, anyways.
Chrom vs Hope (FF13)
Hope is only ever able to do offense on double-turns because even buffed his defense is still not fantastic, but Killing Edge Chrom still doesn't have a OHKO on a crit.  Alas.
Chrom vs Felius (XF)
If Felius was 101% average speed he might actually win this, but no.
Chrom vs Ziggy (XSs)
Kneejerk is that Ziggy's offense drops too much if he wants to avoid counters.

6-2.  In fairness I'm pretty sure some of the matches I can't vote Chrom is doomed on.  Still, feels weirdly a tad low, Chrom feels like he should be Hector-level and able to win matches in Low Heavy despite the average speed, trading Hector's durability for Aether & counter-healing.

[Dhyerwolf]

Aika vs Felius (XF) - Felius doesn't lose THAT much damage by reverting to physicals, although the accuracy is a problem.  Think he still 2HKOs, anyway, and Aika isn't getting the doubles fast enough here.

Aika isn't 2HKOed by average physicals, so parsing everything out, she should be okay to buy some turns especially with Felius hit down to basic physical (Felius' innate missing rate, her speed, healing every other turn).

[SnowFire]

Yeah, on second thought, you're right.  Silly me giving Felius any credit, Aika has that one.  (If he DID 2HKO with his physical, and it was even 90% accuracy, then his argument becomes much better for someone stingy about handing out double-turns like me - Aika must literally do nothing but Focus -> full heal, and only ever does any offense on double turns, and with her crappy offense she can somehow manage to run out of MP if the doubles don't come fast enough.)

[Meeplelard]

Aika vs Erim (Lufias)
Aika vs Auron (FFX)
Aika vs Jerin (Lufia 1)
Aika vs Blue Mage (FF5)
Aika vs Chie (Pers4)
Aika vs Renee (MK)
Aika vs Argilla (DDS)
Aika vs Ramza (FFT)
Aika vs Squall (FF8)
Aika vs Hope (FF13)
Aika vs Felius (XF)
Aika vs  Ziggy (XSs)

Poo vs Erim (Lufias)
Poo vs Auron (FFX)
Poo vs Jerin (Lufia 1)
Poo vs Blue Mage (FF5)
Poo vs Chie (Pers4)
Poo vs Renee (MK)
Poo vs Argilla (DDS)
Poo vs Ramza (FFT)
Poo vs Squall (FF8)
Poo vs Hope (FF13)
Poo vs Felius (XF)
Poo vs  Ziggy (XSs)

Chrom vs Erim (Lufias)
Chrom vs Auron (FFX)
Chrom vs Jerin (Lufia 1)
Chrom vs Blue Mage (FF5)
Chrom vs Chie (Pers4)
Chrom vs Renee (MK)
Chrom vs Argilla (DDS)
Chrom vs Ramza (FFT)
Chrom vs Squall (FF8)
Chrom vs Hope (FF13)
Chrom vs Felius (XF)
Chrom vs  Ziggy (XSs)