Author Topic: Proving Grounds Heavy 2: Ayla makes eyes at Raze, Lily plots murder.  (Read 1998 times)

superaielman

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1. Lucina: 51-16
2. Ness: 19-14
3. Vyse: 16-26

Unsurprising. Ness didn't bring int he votes, Vyse struggled and Lucina kicked ass. Onto the new week!

Wizard (FFT)- High grade offense, some limited defensive options due to armor. Can't really take hits.
Raze- Lily stalking not included.
Ayla- Status blocking based up by solid stats. is it enough?

Wizard (FFT) vs Celes
Wizard vs KOS-MOS
Wizard vs Dhoulmagus
Wizard vs Rika
Wizard vs Decus
Wizard vs Lulu
Wizard vs Warrior (FF3)
Wizard vs Naoto
Wizard vs Garan
Wizard vs Vyse
Wizard vs Lucina
Wizard vs Ness

Raze vs Celes
Raze vs KOS-MOS
Raze vs Dhoulmagus
Raze vs Rika
Raze vs Decus
Raze vs Lulu
Raze vs Warrior (FF3)
Raze vs Naoto
Raze vs Garan
Raze vs Vyse
Raze vs Lucina
Raze vs Ness

Ayla vs Celes
Ayla vs KOS-MOS
Ayla vs Dhoulmagus
Ayla vs Rika
Ayla vs Decus
Ayla vs Lulu
Ayla vs Warrior (FF3)
Ayla vs Naoto
Ayla vs Garan
Ayla vs Vyse
Ayla vs Lucina
Ayla vs Ness
« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 03:02:24 AM by superaielman »
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superaielman

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Re: Proving Grounds Heavy 2: Ayla makes eyes at Raze, Lily plots murder.
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2013, 09:38:47 PM »
Wizard (FFT) vs Celes- IIRC Celes has decent magic durability.
Wizard vs KOS-MOS- KOS is in too deep a hole after the first Flare.
Wizard vs Dhoulmagus- Physicals and durability.
Wizard vs Rika- Block ID, has nasty magic. Huh.
Wizard vs Decus-E: I don't think halving fire saves Wizard here.
Wizard vs Lulu- Heals and outlasts Wizard's MP. Wizard's status is too shaky to be a threat.
Wizard vs Naoto- wtf no
Wizard vs Garan- Spoils.
Wizard vs Vyse- Survives a Flare (Stat topic slightly undersells his durability.), horribly overkills next round.

Ayla vs Celes- Immunes the status, can use Dino tail in response to Vanish.
Ayla vs KOS-MOS- S-Chain's out, she also has a huge speed advantage. That should be enough.
Ayla vs Dhoulmagus- Doubt Ayla's healing is good enough for this.
Ayla vs Rika- ID. Fight gets interesting if Ayla's faster or can dodge a shot of ID, but... yeah.
Ayla vs Decus- Magic.
Ayla vs Lulu- Not doubled right off the bat and ID hits Ayla MDef. Goodbye.
Ayla vs Naoto- ID.
Ayla vs Garan- Ayla's base physical is *terrible*.
Ayla vs Vyse- Survives a physical and Cutlass Fury at the worst.

Ayla: 3-6
Wizard: 2-6
« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 10:12:02 PM by superaielman »
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
-------------------
<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

Random Consonant

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Re: Proving Grounds Heavy 2: Ayla makes eyes at Raze, Lily plots murder.
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2013, 11:26:29 PM »
Wizard (FFT) vs Celes
Wizard vs KOS-MOS - I *think*?  Hazy recollection of bad portmakes but S-CHAIN was pretty badass there so it should tilt things in the slutbot's favor.
Wizard vs Rika - Probably.
Wizard vs Decus
Wizard vs Lulu
Wizard vs Garan - spoil'd by baby head
Wizard vs Lucina - OHKOs.
Wizard vs Ness - Can block every relevent status, lands Death on turn 2.  Ness can't stop this without getting a crit midcharge, and that's too unlikely.

1-7.  Not at all a good field, too many people that make a mockery of her and all she stands for.

Raze vs Celes - I am supposing some form of BS.
Raze vs KOS-MOS - Again, I *think* S-Chain tilts things.  I could be wrong though, that ID weapon. Edit: Or Honey Time Spheres could not care about S-Chain, Honey Time Spheres couldn't give a shit.  Come to think of it Photo Silhouette would also come into play wouldn't it.
Raze vs Rika - Elim, even if you go for the auto-revive lolzers.  Okay he can block ID, but he needs to give up speed to do that, not really a good idea here, he just gets outslugged.
Raze vs Decus - Nulls Light.  Edit: oh god Raze can immune fire, basic physical slapfight ahoy, no, sticking with gut. 
Raze vs Lulu - You know what's great against auto-revive lolzers?  Doublecast Death.  Physical evade and doublecast Flare shenanigans.
Raze vs Garan - Falling Blades is kind of what you want to bring against Garan.
Raze vs Lucina - <Lucina> I have struck home now die
Raze vs Ness - Gut says he wins the resource war

2-6, admitedly this should probably be closer due to the people I can't vote on, but eh.  Pretty ho-hum despite Blessing of Light, loathes those who don't care about his nonsense.

Ayla vs Celes
Ayla vs KOS-MOS - Probably
Ayla vs Rika - Elim.
Ayla vs Decus
Ayla vs Lulu
Ayla vs Garan - Hinges on whether Ayla crits once since she's definitely 2HKO'd, and it's roughly a coinflip.
[18:08] <RandomKesaranPasaran> roll 1d2 2=baby head
[18:08] <Hatbot> 0x01ACTION --> "RandomKesaranPasaran rolls 1d2 2=baby head and gets 2." [1d2=2]
So it goes.
Ayla vs Lucina - Lucina offense kind of more nuts than Ayla's.
Ayla vs Ness

0.5-7.5, let's go with this because I coinflipped Garan.  Horrible, horrible pool for her.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 07:43:37 PM by Random Consonant »

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Proving Grounds Heavy 2: Ayla makes eyes at Raze, Lily plots murder.
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2013, 11:43:06 PM »
Wizard (FFT) vs Celes: Berserk/Imp.
Wizard vs KOS-MOS: Don't respect Wizard blitzing.
Wizard vs Dhoulmagus: Has enough offence.
Wizard vs Rika: Wizard doesn't OHKO, for what it's worth, and that's without a respect penalty for equipping an Angel Ring. Wizard does 103% to average, Rika has 104% magic durability.
Wizard vs Decus: IF Wizard halves fire, she drops her HP enough that she's 2HKOed anyway.
Wizard vs Lulu: One-shots. Wizard can't do the same back. She can also heal if Counter Magic is a concern.
Wizard vs Warrior (FF3): Faster with crazy damage.
Wizard vs Garan: Magic immunity.
Wizard vs Lucina: lolno.

Raze vs Celes
Raze vs KOS-MOS
Raze vs Dhoulmagus
Raze vs Rika
Raze vs Decus
Raze vs Lulu
Raze vs Warrior (FF3)
Raze vs Naoto
Raze vs Garan
Raze vs Lucina

Raze later. Need to figure out what I think of auto-life nonsense.

Ayla vs Celes: Protect/Haste/tank.
Ayla vs KOS-MOS: 2HKOs with X-Buster, isn't 2HKOed, isn't 3-2ed.
Ayla vs Dhoulmagus: Pretty sure. Ayla doesn't like magic much.
Ayla vs Rika: Instant death. Their speeds aren't even close, and even if it were it wouldn't matter much, since you don't beat Rika with non-status physicals.
Ayla vs Decus: The good news for Ayla is her innate fire resistance helps ward off a OHKO! The bad news is she misses the 2HKO herself due to Decus def.
Ayla vs Lulu: Evade.
Ayla vs Warrior (FF3): I assume he's durable enough to not be 2HKOed. Chip then KO with Advance.
Ayla vs Garan: Same as Ayla vs. Crono. Ayla can do like 83% but I see Garan a bit above that.
Ayla vs Lucina: No.

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Cmdr_King

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Re: Proving Grounds Heavy 2: Ayla makes eyes at Raze, Lily plots murder.
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2013, 02:54:11 AM »
Wizard (FFT) vs Celes
Wizard vs KOS-MOS
Wizard vs Dhoulmagus
Wizard vs Rika
Wizard vs Decus
Wizard vs Lulu
Wizard vs Warrior (FF3)
Wizard vs Naoto
Wizard vs Garan
Wizard vs Vyse
Wizard vs Lucina- will look more later but I kinda sorta think Wizard gets swept.


Raze vs Celes
Raze vs KOS-MOS
Raze vs Dhoulmagus
Raze vs Rika
Raze vs Decus
Raze vs Lulu
Raze vs Warrior (FF3)
Raze vs Naoto
Raze vs Garan
Raze vs Vyse
Raze vs Lucina

5/11

Ayla vs Celes
Ayla vs KOS-MOS
Ayla vs Dhoulmagus
Ayla vs Rika
Ayla vs Decus
Ayla vs Lulu
Ayla vs Warrior (FF3)
Ayla vs Naoto
Ayla vs Garan
Ayla vs Vyse
Ayla vs Lucina

5/11
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Dhyerwolf

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Re: Proving Grounds Heavy 2: Ayla makes eyes at Raze, Lily plots murder.
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2013, 02:59:35 AM »
That can't be Ness's vote total, as he should have at least 30 votes.

Wizard (FFT) vs Celes
Wizard vs KOS-MOS
Wizard vs Dhoulmagus
Wizard vs Rika- Take a little bit lower FFT damage curve, so I guess Wizard gets the OHKO here.
Wizard vs Decus
Wizard vs Lulu
Wizard vs Warrior (FF3)
Wizard vs Naoto- This one is close, but Naoto evades the damage too much.
Wizard vs Garan
Wizard vs Vyse
Wizard vs Ness- ID since Ness status sucks.

Raze vs Celes
Raze vs KOS-MOS- Strong gut reaction. KOS-MOS generally needs to setup to kill, and giving Raze turns here isn't working so great. S-Chain helps a little, but I see Raze blocking the Hit Down, and Slow versus TCs isn't the best strat (Also delaying the damage)
Raze vs Dhoulmagus- Gut reaction of Raze getting 4 turns as he'll pump out more than 2 PC HP by that time.
Raze vs Rika
Raze vs Decus
Raze vs Lulu- Raze can deal with about everything except Lulu's evade
Raze vs Warrior (FF3)- Slight speed advantage and auto-life are a great combo here.
Raze vs Naoto- Naoto...nulling Holy and ID blocks Raze so hard. I...kind of almost am feeling the need to calc based on Raze's basic physical though...
Raze vs Garan
Raze vs Vyse Makes good use of TCs here
Raze vs Ness- Anti-physical

Ayla vs Celes
Ayla vs KOS-MOS
Ayla vs Dhoulmagus
Ayla vs Rika
Ayla vs Decus
Ayla vs Lulu
Ayla vs Warrior (FF3)- Warrior 2HKOs, Ayla doesn't.
Ayla vs Naoto
Ayla vs Garan
Ayla vs Vyse- Abstain here. Gilder/Drachma hit may give this to Vyse.
Ayla vs Ness

Raze 5-6 (Hey look wins)
Wizard 3-8
Ayla 0-10 (Funny that she and Crono are competing in different divisions. She's...not really better. She has 20% more damage overall, he has better speed. She has better Pdur, he has better Mdur).
...into the nightfall.

Pyro

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Re: Proving Grounds Heavy 2: Ayla makes eyes at Raze, Lily plots murder.
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2013, 02:59:46 AM »
Wizard (FFT) vs Celes: Celes. Should status her with... something first.
Wizard vs KOS-MOS: KOS-MOS. She won't be OHKO'd, S-Chain?.
Wizard vs Dhoulmagus: Dhoulmagus. Wizard doesn't beat bosses.
Wizard vs Rika: Rika. Healing.
Wizard vs Decus: Decus. Wins slugfesting.
Wizard vs Lulu: Lulu. Heals off the damage.
Wizard vs Warrior (FF3)
Wizard vs Naoto: Naoto. Evasion and her best damage (for what it's worth) is NE magic.
Wizard vs Garan: Garan... yeah.
Wizard vs Vyse: Vyse. Isn't OHKOd, 2HKOs.
Wizard vs Lucina
Wizard vs Ness: Ness has more healing than she does damage.

Raze vs Celes: Celes. Status immunization loses to holy reduction.
Raze vs KOS-MOS: KOS-MOS. S-Chain lasts beyond the rez? Well then Kos-Mos wins.
Raze vs Dhoulmagus: Raze. piles it on before KO 1, piles it on again before KO2.
Raze vs Rika: Rika. Saner once, collect victory?
Raze vs Decus: Decus: Holy reduction.
Raze vs Lulu: Lulu. Too much evasion.
Raze vs Warrior (FF3)
Raze vs Naoto: Raze immunes ID. Naoto does too but I don't see her nulling Holy damage (if I did, I'd see her vulnerable to his Non-elemental ID).
Raze vs Garan: Raze. Falling Blades and the Auto-Rez restores SP too.
Raze vs Vyse: Raze. Vyse isn't doing it twice.
Raze vs Ness: Ness. Should have the resources for it.

Ayla vs Celes: Celes Wins a magic damage war.
Ayla vs KOS-MOS: Kos-Mos. S-chain.
Ayla vs Dhoulmagus: Dhoulmagus. Too good as a boss.
Ayla vs Rika: Rika. Deban/Psy Shield, collect victory.
Ayla vs Decus: Decus, magic boss.
Ayla vs Lulu: Lulu. Magic assault.
Ayla vs Warrior (FF3)
Ayla vs Naoto: Naoto. ID.
Ayla vs Garan: Garan, MP bust?
Ayla vs Vyse: Vyse. More damage sooner.
Ayla vs Lucina
Ayla vs Ness: Ness. Healing and status?
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 03:03:27 AM by Pyro »

SnowFire

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Re: Proving Grounds Heavy 2: Ayla makes eyes at Raze, Lily plots murder.
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2013, 03:41:49 AM »
Wizard & Ayla are swept.  Enforcing charge times makes Wizard very not good, and this is a bunch of Heavy/Godlike border types.

Throwing the Middle set at 'em, which seems more their size....

Ayla vs Carlie - Don't think Ayla 2HKOs through turn 1 Black Curse, though it's close.
Ayla vs Kornell - Kornell w/ his parts is actually a Heavy/Godlike border type.
Ayla vs Beowulf - Ayla barely misses the 2HKO, so Drain hax + the occasional shield block -> Shock! when about to die?  This one is closer, at least, if Beowulf misses a Drain ever he's boned or if Shield blocks don't come fast enough.
Ayla vs Dekar - Super probably will hype IP healing for Dekar so sure, despite Dekar getting doubled left & right.  Ayla needs to carefully chip or something but she chews through her MP too fast as usual.
Ayla vs Landis - I presume.  (Bad super, don't use forgetable suikoscrubs or AtL characters.)
Ayla vs Adray - Ayla has FOUR TRIPLE KICKS.  She doesn't 4:3 Adray and thus runs out of MP trying to enforce a heal lock here.
Ayla vs Chrom - counter-healing 24/7, Ayla gets knocked into Brave Sword attack fatal range before she she gets anywhere against the tanky Chrom.  And loses the fight instantly if Aether triggers.
Ayla vs Aika - Ayla's basic physical is shockingly bad (short of Prism Specs of course, or massively overleveled Ayla w/ Iron Fist).  EDIT: But Vigil Hat.  Uhh.  Aika can still do Focus -> Heal if Ayla blitzes, but will Ayla eventually get a double-turn?  It probably won't be for a long while, AIka's fast.  Aika is threatening to kill very very slowly here, though.  Eh, still willing to give it to Aika, don't really respect Dino Tail hax at low life or whatever.

1-7 against the Middle/Heavy set.

Wizard vs Carlie - Enforcing charge times means that Black Curse, despite itself being slow, still probably resolves before Flare.  MA-optimized Wizard could OHKO, but not post BC.  However, there's still Death hype.  Still, eh, Carlie has game-best spirit, and while I respect Carlie damage far less than the stat topic, it's still probably enough to 2HKO the frail & high Faith Wizard post-BC....  but Carlie having to heal again does give Wizard at least 2 shots at Death.  Not sure.
Wizard vs Kornell - Kornell BUSTER
Wizard vs Beowulf - Berserk is a problem, Beowulf can probably get Frog & ID at once I assume?
Wizard vs Dekar - Wizard might actually resolve Flare before Dekar goes!  I doubt it, but it's possible with math.  Wizard's best shot is something like Wait -> Flare -> strongest spell that resolves before Dekar's killing 2nd turn, but I'm not sure that's enough, because it'd have to be something like Bolt.
Wizard vs Landis - Checking the stat topic, Landis has good MDef and can tank a Flare.
Wizard vs Adray - Adray opens with Reflection and blocks ID (lest he get Flare'd).  Wizard goes on a Frog blitz.  Think this is Wizard's, unless you respect Adray OHKO'ing MP as his opening move, which the stat topic actually claims he can do with the postgame stuff (which I usually allow).  Uh.  Abstain, then.
Wizard vs Chrom - Wizard barely OHKOs if she hits, and Chrom needs an Aether to OHKO himself.  So Chrom actually wins this 55% of the time (.76*.76*.83 , from the stat topic values), but that requires hyping Chrom's unreliable status-esque stuff.  I'll grudgingly give this one to the Wiz.
Wizard vs Aika - Rod beatdown.

1-5-2.  Better than Ayla!
« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 03:46:45 AM by SnowFire »

superaielman

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Re: Proving Grounds Heavy 2: Ayla makes eyes at Raze, Lily plots murder.
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2013, 03:54:42 AM »
Quote
Ayla vs Aika - Ayla's basic physical is shockingly bad (short of Prism Specs of course, or massively overleveled Ayla w/ Iron Fist).  EDIT: But Vigil Hat.  Uhh.  Aika can still do Focus -> Heal if Ayla blitzes, but will Ayla eventually get a double-turn?  It probably won't be for a long while, AIka's fast.  Aika is threatening to kill very very slowly here, though.  Eh, still willing to give it to Aika, don't really respect Dino Tail hax at low life or whatever.

Ayla has status on her basic physical which is bad (It should be 420 and not 240, that was an error0. That is enough to beat Aika.
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
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<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
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SnowFire

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Re: Proving Grounds Heavy 2: Ayla makes eyes at Raze, Lily plots murder.
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2013, 04:00:40 AM »
Ayla's status on her basic physical comes at like level 72, unless I'm crazy.  Not allowing it unless my recollection is off.

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Proving Grounds Heavy 2: Ayla makes eyes at Raze, Lily plots murder.
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2013, 04:02:41 AM »
Wizard (FFT) vs Celes Chere - Berserk at worst.
Wizard vs KOS-MOS - KOS-MOS should be able to 2HKO before Wizard connects the second attack needed to kill. Wizard could also -miss- even before S-CHAIN is factored in, KOS had decent evade.
Wizard vs Dhoulmagus - Dear god.
Wizard vs Rika - No OHKO, no dice.
Wizard vs Decus - I don't -think- Wizard can OHKO Decus with an ice spell.
Wizard vs Lulu - Gross, she just OHKOs.
Wizard vs Warrior (FF3) - Overkills.
Wizard vs Naoto Shirogane - Naoto is a horrible Light when bereft of ID.
Wizard vs Garan - Good lord.
Wizard vs Lucina - Speaking of good lord.
Wizard vs Ness - Frog or ID. Ness short-term fighting issues come into play again.

2-9. The only thing this pool proves is that it's full of crazy badasses for the division, lolzers like Garan aside. KOS-MOS? Decus? Lulu? Celes? Rika[/i]? What the hell, man. Wizard is barely Heavy, she only avoided the broom due to spoiling a couple low-damage duds (poor Ness).

Razeluxe Meitzen vs Celes Chere - Imp.
Razeluxe Meitzen vs KOS-MOS - Raze immunes Slow and timed cards don't factor in debuffs or buffs. Raze just sits back while Falling Leaves does its job.
Razeluxe Meitzen vs Dhoulmagus - Um. I'm assuming the fact Dhouly 4HKOs effectively just plays hell with him here, that's a lot of time for the damage to add up.
Razeluxe Meitzen vs Rika - Saner.
Razeluxe Meitzen vs Decus - Fire immunity vs. Holy immunity, so this is a slapfight for the ages. Suspect Raze gives up a fair bit of durability besides the speed just to immune fire, though, and Decus physicals should fail considerably less than basic MK2 physicals.
Razeluxe Meitzen vs Lulu - The evade is nothing short of gross against Raze.
Razeluxe Meitzen vs Warrior (FF3) - Warrior probably misses a 2HKO after Auto-Life, but Blood Sword should help a lot.
Razeluxe Meitzen vs Naoto Shirogane - Dear god, -another- Holy immune Raze probably beats? And this is giving Naoto's immunities extra credit (since there's no non-gravity Holy/Light damage in P4). If you don't see -that- panning out, this is an unholy slaughter.
Razeluxe Meitzen vs Garan - Falling Leaves hits a mild weakness I think and the timed cards along with basic pelts should outpace Garan eventually. Not to mention Raze gets a second shot at piling up the cards in case he even gets killed once, and Garan gets but a single turn if he doesn't open with Mind Assault.
Razeluxe Meitzen vs Lucina - Not -this- time. Lucina offense is just so damned good.
Razeluxe Meitzen vs Ness - Shield and outresource.

4-7. Raze is actually a pretty solid Heavy, but he can't quite play with the cream of the crop in the division. Elemental, evadable physical offense reliance is a problem, but it's impressive how often Raze can just toss a Falling Leaves and sit back waiting for them to kill an enemy - and he has means to speed the process along too. Blessing of Light is just amazing in a duel.

Ayla vs Celes Chere - Imp.
Ayla vs KOS-MOS - 2HKOs, isn't 2HKOed.
Ayla vs Dhoulmagus - Ew.
Ayla vs Rika - Saner.
Ayla vs Decus - See Elfboy.
Ayla vs Lulu - *Overkill.*
Ayla vs Warrior (FF3) - Chip-2HKO, should avoid being 2HKOed himself.
Ayla vs Naoto Shirogane - ID and evade.
Ayla vs Garan - I saw Crono winning, I guess...
Ayla vs Lucina - Pretty much. Ayla even triggers counters, which is just gross.
Ayla vs Ness - Once again, resources.

1-10. Ayla against high-profile Heavies, the stand-up comedy show. This is ridiculous.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2013, 06:04:22 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Proving Grounds Heavy 2: Ayla makes eyes at Raze, Lily plots murder.
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2013, 04:16:09 AM »
Since Ayla/Wizard actually have some interesting fights this way, might as well discuss some of them!

Ayla can heal-lock Adray with Rock Throw, which is shockingly powerful for a non-ultimate tech (better than anything Crono does, for instance!). I don't have much Adray speed respect which makes the fight extra bad for him... she very possibly does 4:3 to me. But she doesn't have to.

Chrom is not particularly tanky. Ayla kinda is though! This depends what you see countering what, probably, as well as Aether respect of course. My kneejerk is the match will go to Ayla (because of her Def she has a large range where Dino Tail gets very nasty) but yeah her resources make that a thing I'm not sure about.

Wizard going for Death is optimising for HP and isn't frail at all (she can get up to pretty average, before Faith), so yeah, would be pretty surprised if Carlie can blitz her out. To make matters worse black magic is definitely "int-based" in SD3 (spirit-based are things like Lise's summons and of course Carlie's stuff) and Carlie's MDef is a mere 7 points above average against such things.

For the record, Landis is pretty notable as a dueller (S in Freeze and Magic Resist is a very unique combination), but yeah you probably didn't use him so I can see the annoyance. <_<

I'm too lazy to work out Dekar matches (although I'd be stunned if Wizard lost that one for me), and disagree on Kornell/Ayla for obvious reasons (think he beats Wizard though, I respect his HP enough), and agree with the rest.

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Tide

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Re: Proving Grounds Heavy 2: Ayla makes eyes at Raze, Lily plots murder.
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2013, 04:21:02 AM »
Wizard (FFT) vs Celes - Wizard can counter all the status Celes has but *confuse*. His best shot is standard OHKOing, but Celes has notable M-Evade and her M.Def isn't total fail. Flip side, once Celes gets a turn, she wins by confuse locking at worst.
Wizard vs KOS-MOS - KOS will likely have enough HP to tank one flare (she's above average on MDef and HP). She throws S.Chain after. If he tries for another spell, the Acc. down will spoil him. If he doesn't *block* slow, he outright gets lapped and dies before getting a second turn. 
Wizard vs Rika - Wizard has an argument to OHKO, but :math:
Wizard vs Lulu - Easy
Wizard vs Naoto - Naoto's magic evasion from Miori shirt delays the OHKOing Flare, but I don't see it working against pure status. So Wizard like Frogs her or something. What the fuck is this shit, Super?
Wizard vs Lucina - Lucina has actual offense. So this uh...gets UGLY.
Wizard vs Ness - Ness might be able to tank a Flare. Doesn't matter, because Wizard has FROG, which shuts down everything he can do. So sad.

Raze vs Celes - All physical against Celes. Welp.
Raze vs KOS-MOS - S-Chain persisting past death makes a big deal here.
Raze vs Rika - Auto-Life revival is worthless here. Saner alone gives him fits. Plus Raze will be notably slow here unless he wants to get Elim'd twice.
Raze vs Lulu - Has no answer to her evade. Or healing for that matter. Also has to block death so he basically has like no speed advantage after.
Raze vs Naoto - Infinite failure. Naoto nulls Light, Raze has nothing but Light except for MK2 PHYSICALS and he blocks ID.

Naoto has exactly six shots of Mind Charge'd Megidoloans he can throw at Raze. Luckily for her, this is *just* enough to kill him. She'll deal about 9% above the kill point and Raze has to block ID, which means he loses the Mdef reduction he normally has, so it's just his HP trying to absorb this difference, which isn't enough. It's possible though that the Silver Thread's 15% magic block can help Raze evade a single shot (on average, Naoto has about a 37% chance for all 6 to hit, so she's likely missing once), which buys him some much needed time. Assuming she misses just once, she has to make it up with *3* base physicals. On average, this means she needs about 9 turns to kill him.

Meanwhile, Raze's best strategy is to use Photo Silhouette and then spam attack all day long. He deals 440 damage from a basic physical. Times two, that's about 880 for three turns before he has to recast. He realistically isn't doing any damage for the first three turns because of Sukukaja. Naoto has about 80% P.dur, which means Raze only needs about 4 turns to win, after his three turn delayed start. However, he also has to recast Photo Silhouette every 3 turns. Which means his first, fifth and eighth turn are spent not doing damage. This means he kills on about the seventh turn. HOWEVER...

Because he's saddled with the  ID accessory, he loses 61 speed, which drops him down to about 80% average. Naoto's speed is exactly average after turn 1, so she 4-3s him and will get the 9 turns she needs first before he gets his seven.

And with that, I am off to jump off a bridge. Please kindly dunk Super in acid during my absence. kthx.

Raze vs Lucina - The timed sphere wonkiness avoids counters, but Lucina just has way too much offense.
Raze vs Ness - Shield alpha/beta. Raze has to block ID here tooto boot because those shields delay the damage he deals, which gives Ness ample opportunities to status him.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 04:41:48 AM by Tide »
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Dhyerwolf

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Re: Proving Grounds Heavy 2: Ayla makes eyes at Raze, Lily plots murder.
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2013, 05:26:08 AM »
Because he's saddled with the  ID accessory, he loses 61 speed, which drops him down to about 80% average. Naoto's speed is exactly average after turn 1, so she 4-3s him and will get the 9 turns she needs first before he gets his seven.

It makes him more likely 90% speed (if that matters at all)

Forgot about Photo Silhouette (in general on it's level of worth).
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SnowFire

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Re: Proving Grounds Heavy 2: Ayla makes eyes at Raze, Lily plots murder.
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2013, 05:28:30 AM »
Elf, re Carlie / Wizard: It's actually a push.  Equips happen before the battle.  If Wizard equips for MA, then Carlie *must* open with Black Curse or else get owned.  If Carlie sees Wizard equipped for HP, then she probably skips Black Curse and goes straight to the beatdown, although maybe not (it's possible she misses the 2HKO on HP-optimized wizard, and there's no difference between BC->2HKO and a vanilla 3HKO).  Assuming Carlie 3HKOs HP-optimized Wizard, she still eats 2 Death attempts.  If she 2HKOs, then Wizard goes back to equipping for MA after all - Carlie BC, Wizard Death, Carlie damage (Ghost, for me, no Unicorn spam), Wizard Death, Carlie damage.  So Wizard still gets those 2 Death attempts.

Re Adray / Ayla: If Ayla can manage the heal-lock with Rock Throw, then yeah, Adray's back to the MP-bust-or-go-home interp split which I'm really not sure on.  Figures that his MP damage goes from "meh" to "awesome" based off of which average is used.

I do agree that Ayla gives Kornell a much bigger run for his money than the average Middle/Heavy straddler, FWIW!  Kornell has a turn 1 OHKO if both he & the Iron Fist go for damage, but Ayla can tank it, and Ayla is clearly faster, so Ayla has a reasonably strong arugment to just 2HKO Kornell.  It's close, but inclined to kneejerk against; can totally see voting the other way though.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Proving Grounds Heavy 2: Ayla makes eyes at Raze, Lily plots murder.
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2013, 06:06:23 AM »
I definitely don't think Carlie has any shot at 2HKOing HP-optimised Wizard. She's below average damage, Wizard is basically average HP, Faith only adds ~17% or so. Using Frog instead of Death is a good idea here, incidentally, as Frog is slightly more accurate, considerably faster, and might as well be death (frogged FFT characters do single-digit damage and take 1.5x damage).

The Ayla/Kornell comments do make sense, yeah, but for what it's worth I would see Kornell being durable enough to tank two Triple Kicks, so yeah, he's good.

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superaielman

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Re: Proving Grounds Heavy 2: Ayla makes eyes at Raze, Lily plots murder.
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2013, 07:31:31 PM »
Mmm yeah, Ayla/Wizard were duds. I will pick much stronger heavies for next week and will reuse this field.
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Re: Proving Grounds Heavy 2: Ayla makes eyes at Raze, Lily plots murder.
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2013, 09:37:03 PM »
This...not voting yet but god -damn- this is a nasty pool.
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Meeplelard

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Re: Proving Grounds Heavy 2: Ayla makes eyes at Raze, Lily plots murder.
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2013, 11:10:46 PM »
Wizard (FFT) vs Celes
Wizard vs KOS-MOS
Wizard vs Dhoulmagus
Wizard vs Rika
Wizard vs Decus
Wizard vs Lulu
Wizard vs Warrior (FF3)
Wizard vs Naoto
Wizard vs Garan
Wizard vs Vyse
Wizard vs Lucina
Wizard vs Ness

Ayla vs Celes
Ayla vs KOS-MOS
Ayla vs Dhoulmagus
Ayla vs Rika
Ayla vs Decus
Ayla vs Lulu
Ayla vs Warrior (FF3)
Ayla vs Naoto
Ayla vs Garan
Ayla vs Vyse
Ayla vs Lucina
Ayla vs Ness
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Re: Proving Grounds Heavy 2: Ayla makes eyes at Raze, Lily plots murder.
« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2013, 02:57:12 AM »
Wizard (FFT) vs Celes- IIRC Celes has decent magic durability.
Wizard vs KOS-MOS- KOS is in too deep a hole after the first Flare.
Wizard vs Dhoulmagus- Physicals and durability.
Wizard vs Rika- Block ID, has nasty magic. Huh.
Wizard vs Decus-E: I don't think halving fire saves Wizard here.
Wizard vs Lulu- Heals and outlasts Wizard's MP. Wizard's status is too shaky to be a threat.
Wizard vs Naoto- wtf no
Wizard vs Garan- Spoils.
Wizard vs Vyse- Survives a Flare (Stat topic slightly undersells his durability.), horribly overkills next round.

Ayla vs Celes- Immunes the status, can use Dino tail in response to Vanish.
Ayla vs KOS-MOS- S-Chain's out, she also has a huge speed advantage. That should be enough.
Ayla vs Dhoulmagus- Doubt Ayla's healing is good enough for this.
Ayla vs Rika- ID. Fight gets interesting if Ayla's faster or can dodge a shot of ID, but... yeah.
Ayla vs Decus- Magic.
Ayla vs Lulu- Not doubled right off the bat and ID hits Ayla MDef. Goodbye.
Ayla vs Naoto- ID.
Ayla vs Garan- Ayla's base physical is *terrible*.
Ayla vs Vyse- Survives a physical and Cutlass Fury at the worst.

Ayla: 3-6
Wizard: 2-6