Lezarding Grounds: Stalkers lie within (WARNING Lezard)

[SnowFire]

WARNING: Lezard.

WARNING ALERT AVERTISSEMENT: No, really.  This is a trainwreck.  Please don't take anything below more seriously than you would a bonus match.

Okay so chat was all "WTF Lezard" awhile back and tossed around silly ideas.  Since Lezard is unique as the only DL character to have been in all 4 divisions...  and possibly deservedly so...  let's throw a rare full-range Proving Grounds at him to...  prove...  we're not sure what, exactly.  See warning above.  Do with this whatever you want - 1 big vote, 1 vote per form, make abstract art, strictly vote the flavor, curse at the VP2 writers...

As a sanity check reminder, the power-o-meter is something like Seraphic Gate PC Lezard (VP1) < Boss Lezard (VP1) < PC Lezard (VP2) <= Boss Lezard assuming all PCs are 1/4 a Valkyrie (VP2) < Boss Lezard with full screw-you-non-Valkyries damage reduction hype (VP2) ignoring legality issues.  (also don't nom Lezard like ever)

Lezard Valeth vs. Loki (Valkyrie Profile)
Lezard Valeth vs.  Necrophobia (Final Fantasy 5)
Lezard Valeth vs.  Hrist (Valkyrie Profile 2)
Lezard Valeth vs.  Odin (Valkyrie Profile 2)
Lezard Valeth vs.  Kevin (Xenosaga 3)
Lezard Valeth vs.  Pamela Ibis (Mana Khemia)
Lezard Valeth vs.  Freya (Final Fantasy 9)
Lezard Valeth vs.  Dragoon (Final Fantasy 3)
Lezard Valeth vs.  Neclord (Suikoden series)
Lezard Valeth vs.  Alicia (Valkyrie Profile 2)
Lezard Valeth vs.  Selan (w/ Ice Valk spell legal) (Lufia 2)
Lezard Valeth vs.  L'Arachel (Fire Emblem 8)
Lezard Valeth vs.  Clarine (Fire Emblem 6)
Lezard Valeth vs.  Adachi (Persona 4)
Lezard Valeth vs. Marle (w/ Valkyrie crossbow) (Chrono Trigger)
Lezard Valeth vs. Lise (Seiken Densetsu 3)
Lezard Valeth vs. Cistina (Tactics Ogre PSP)
Lezard Valeth vs. Selene (Grandia 2)
Lezard Valeth vs. Mist (Fire Emblem series)
Lezard Valeth vs. Dupa (Suikoden 3)
Lezard Valeth vs. Leone (Valkyrie Profile 2)
Lezard Valeth vs. Quistis (Final Fantasy 8)
Lezard Valeth vs. Valkyrie Maribelle (Fire Emblem Awakening)
Lezard Valeth vs. Mystina (Valkyrie Profile)
Lezard Valeth vs. ???? (Final Fantasy 6)
Lezard Valeth vs. Hrist (Valkyrie Profile 1)

--
BONUS MATCH

The Anarchic Entity cackled madly in standard crazy god fashion.  "No more DL?  Hah!  That won't stop me.  With this cloning device, I'll be able to pursue all the valkyries at once!  ...not that they would hold a candle to my dear murdered Lenneth, of course.  Wait, why did I summon these pretenders to my tower again through the Temporal Displacer?  On second thought, I should probably just kill them all for getting in my way and distracting them.  And no psuedo-vampires will get in my way this time."

Lezard (VP1 PC), Lezard (VP1 boss), Lezard (VP2 PC), Lezard (VP2 boss) vs. Silmeria (VP2), Priscilla (FE7), Mist (FE9), Scythe (WA4)

[Random Consonant]

So as a disclaimer I only know VP1 Lezard, who to spoil things a bit sits at 0.35 PCHP on his boss form.  As such... well...

Lezard Valeth vs. Loki (Valkyrie Profile)
Lezard Valeth vs. Necrophobia (Final Fantasy 5)
Lezard Valeth vs. Pamela Ibis (Mana Khemia) - Actually kind of pathetic because Lezard goes first and does enough damage to hit her out of being able to use anything that OHKOs.  MERCIFULLY she just barely 2HKOs Lezard's amazing durability with the draining, which is good because Lezard's GM turn OHKOs her.  Fuckin' Christ, Pamela.  Edit: okay his RST is kind of crap so it's not quiiiiiite that bad but still
Lezard Valeth vs. Freya (Final Fantasy 9)
Lezard Valeth vs. Neclord (Suikoden series)
Lezard Valeth vs. Selan (w/ Ice Valk spell legal) (Lufia 2) - DL legal Selan beats VP1 Lezard.
Lezard Valeth vs. L'Arachel (Fire Emblem 8) - Betcha wish Reflect Sorcery wasn't turn 5.
Lezard Valeth vs. Clarine (Fire Emblem 6) - Well this is similar.
Lezard Valeth vs. Marle (w/ Valkyrie crossbow) (Chrono Trigger) - Oh man a healer with MDef.
Lezard Valeth vs. Lise (Seiken Densetsu 3)
Lezard Valeth vs. Selene (Grandia 2)
Lezard Valeth vs. Mist (Fire Emblem series) - GOD MIST THE BLOODY RIDES AGAIN or something
Lezard Valeth vs. Quistis (Final Fantasy 8) - surely she can manage a 2HKO here.
Lezard Valeth vs. Valkyrie Maribelle (Fire Emblem Awakening) - as above.
Lezard Valeth vs. Mystina (Valkyrie Profile) - Mystina's opening turn is actually about 0.42 PCHP damage to me, which is enough.
Lezard Valeth vs. ? ? ? ? (Final Fantasy 6) - Probably.  Although it's possible that ghost may have sub-8HKO damage or whatever and miss 2HKOing despite Lezard's crap defense (p.s. don't use ff6 ghost for anything kthx)
Lezard Valeth vs. Hrist (Valkyrie Profile 1) - SURELY HE CAN HANDLE THIS.

[SnowFire]

Why is elf being lazy and not giving me free stuff to vote on sigh.

For the record, I bake in the Valkyrie damage against boss Lezard's HP.  Came up in chat awhile back, but the shorthand rule for me for such nonsense is if it requires a unique person or unique artifact, toss it for the DL, but if theoretically anyone could do it but in practice this is rare, it's legit (but also likely DNRable).  So DDS Bat or Farmel, hey, anyone with earth damage / the ability to move characters around can beat 'em, which is not necessarily uncommon in-game (or in fact required).  Zeromus or what sounds like how Zio works or SO2 Wise Men without Claude's ubersword in the party nonsense, nope.  Lezard is clearly on the "unique character" side although I'd probably be cheeky and let any Valkyrie do full damage to him rather than just Valkyrie Valkyrie.  HOWEVER my Lezard respect is kneejerk higher than the other VP2 fanatics, so his HP isn't quite as terrible as it would be for most who bake in Valk's damage.  (I guess I just sucked at VP2, I wiped to him and threw some Soul Crushes in his face and he tanked 'em.)  I'd probably lean toward like .30 PCHP with great defenses that halve damage, so ~.6 PCHP in practice?  (Hey, I'm willing to knock my estimate down some since everyone else was apparently 1-rounding him or whatever...)

Also, for the record, because Lezard can never make things be nice, PC Lezard gets Spirtual Thorn stupidly late (level 38 according to a FAQ...  so maybe right before he leaves the party), but that's where all his dueling worth is based.  Sigh.

Lezard Valeth vs. Loki (Valkyrie Profile)
Lezard Valeth vs. Necrophobia (Final Fantasy 5) - Well, Lezard has AREA target stuff, but probably not full MT to wipe out the barriers in one blast...
Lezard Valeth vs. Hrist (Valkyrie Profile 2) - Sure since Hrist is part of Valkyrie I can squint and let her damage be super-amplified.  Without it, it's closer; Hrist's damage is bad until she hits her limit, but I doubt Lezard can chip around it when his biggest damage is only around punishing misses.
Lezard Valeth vs.  Odin (Valkyrie Profile 2) - And Odin apparently never misses, so see above, Lezard can't chip.
Lezard Valeth vs.  Kevin (Xenosaga 3) - Probably Breaks Lezard, of all things, while they flail around.
Lezard Valeth vs. Freya (Final Fantasy 9) - Weird, she apparently doesn't 2HKO, so ID'd.
Lezard Valeth vs.  Dragoon (Final Fantasy 3) - His Gungnir jump, however, does OHKO.
Lezard Valeth vs. Neclord (Suikoden series) - Weird, the stat topic hypes S2 Neclord as way better than I'd expect.  Both his actions go off above-average speed so uh I guess he just smashes.
Lezard Valeth vs.  Alicia (Valkyrie Profile 2) - All about if you allow the ID blocker, I suppose.  I'm feeling generous today.
Lezard Valeth vs.  Selan (w/ Ice Valk spell legal) (Lufia 2) - Stall until IP OHKO?  Which is apparently elemental and so runs into Lezard's uber elemental resist, though.  Unsure how seriously to take the resists.  She has attack-boosting IPs for the Zirco Whip but that's apparently casino-only so screw that.  Uh, dunno.
Lezard Valeth vs.  L'Arachel (Fire Emblem 8) - uhhh so L'Arachel apparently doesn't double average and worries about elemental resists.  Okay, time to tank that AS and equip Ivaldi...  is Lezard a monster?  Probably, he's a god by the end and FE8 thinks everything gets hit for massive damage by Sacred Twins, so sure.  PC Lezard isn't hit by that at least, but he needs to have Spiritual Thorn connect by turn 2 vs. her good RES...  nope.  (I give L'Arachel's good move tiebreak for going first on turn 3.)  Good match though.
Lezard Valeth vs. Clarine (Fire Emblem 6) - Clarine DOES double, but dat Elemental Resist again probably screws over Aircalibur.  She'd still win the slugfest except for the whole 100% ID after she hits him once part.  Maybe if I let Clarine use her range advantage to intentionally go second on turn 1, then go first on turn 2?  Kind of like sending a unit just in range of an enemy?  And I'd certainly force bosses to attack into her counters...  so all she has to do is 4HKO.  That's probably doable.
Lezard Valeth vs. Marle (w/ Valkyrie crossbow) (Chrono Trigger) - PC Lezard wins this if nothing else, but Marle can't chip around Powerful Name.
Lezard Valeth vs. Lise (Seiken Densetsu 3) - Lise can chip with debuffs / buffs, though?  They're even non-elemental.  But only slightly better than average damage post-boost?  Sheesh.  Uh Lise can win if she literally *perfectly* chips Lezard to 71% HP, then unleashes Mind Up Marduke, but I'm more inclined to think she accidentally mischips or something since if she screws around she dies to Lezard's magic.  Less Lezard HP respect and he loses, of course.
Lezard Valeth vs. Cistina (Tactics Ogre PSP) - Equip a spear, stall with healing, chip past the limit with a Spear finisher.
Lezard Valeth vs. Selene (Grandia 2) - This is a horrible slapfight, but Selene's HP is terrible, Lezard can surely 2HKO it.  I'm not sure Selene 2HKOs back, or if I'd even see it as faster.
Lezard Valeth vs. Mist (Fire Emblem series) - Holy shit.  Mist doubles average according to the halfshift averages in the equal XP topic.  And an Alondite double safely chips past Lezard's limit range, and FE happens to be champion chippers with all the math provided for you for free (unlike SD3) (be quiet Alondite is clearly legal here).  Not to mention that Blessed Alondite has a solid argument to hurt Lezard anyway.  So...  PC Lezard time, but I doubt Spirtual Thorn connects in time, and he's still getting doubled.  Alondite hungers.
Lezard Valeth vs. Dupa (Suikoden 3) -ID.  Our lizard-man 2HKOs but has no damage control.
Lezard Valeth vs. Leone (Valkyrie Profile 2) - I wish I knew what a Leone-leaving-period-appropriate damage average with at-times equips was.  Anyway...  she blocks ID, and has non-elemental physicals to smash with, so they just 2HKO each other.  No easy way to tell who goes first, also.
Lezard Valeth vs. Quistis (Final Fantasy 8) - They each 3HKO the other (Quistis blocks Death to me) and Lezard can chip around Quistis's limit, but Quistis is slightly below average speed.
Lezard Valeth vs. Valkyrie Maribelle (Fire Emblem Awakening) - The good news is that Valk Maribelle barely, barely, barely avoids getting doubled by average.  (She's -4.2 Speed below average.)  The bad news is that she sure as heck isn't 2HKOing, never mind the elemental resist nonsense, and if she doesn't do that she isn't chipping past instant death.  But hey, she beats PC Lezard with her uber resistance!
Lezard Valeth vs. Mystina (Valkyrie Profile) - Although Mystina probably beats all the PC forms of Lezard, which is something.  (None of this "Recruited at high level" nonsense that causes VP1 Lezard to miss out on Bracelet of Zoe levels.)
Lezard Valeth vs. ???? (Final Fantasy 6) - I was thinking Phantom Train Ghost, for the record, not Terra.  Their damage is unequipped FF6 physicals vs. Aura Bolt / Dispatch / Shurikens.  Good luck with that.
Lezard Valeth vs. Hrist (Valkyrie Profile 1) - Like in-game, I'm sure.

10-12-2 so far.

Lezard (VP1 PC), Lezard (VP1 boss), Lezard (VP2 PC), Lezard (VP2 boss) vs. Silmeria (VP2), Priscilla (FE7), Mist (FE9), Scythe (WA4) - High FE Valkyrie move means that Mist & Priscilla punk VP2 boss first, the main one here offering physical damage.  After that, the FE Valks are magically tanky, so even if Silmeria & not-Brahms are not amazing, they probably slug it out.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Remember Lezard rejoins before turning into a boss at endgame stats and getting an awesome weapon that is useless in-game but saves his DL offense.

[SnowFire]

Rejoins for exactly 1 battle with Odin, unless I'm crazy, where Spiritual Thorn is entirely useless...  (but whatever, I've made my peace, he's not the only PC out there to have weird things happen.  For starters, who exactly has Heal and who doesn't in VP2 is irrelevant, it doesn't matter who casts it and Alicia has it, and you have Alicia in your party the entire game.  Yet obviously huge spikes in dueling worth based on who's got it.)

[Dark Holy Elf]

Okay, so, Lezard forms:

VP1 PC: Is a mage. A lot like Gandar, has Poison Blow as his best. Kills the frail turn 4 and everyone else turn 7, has uh SILENCE (50%, every 6 turns. VP mages are so amazing).
VP1 boss: 0.4 PCHP or so. These days I allow great magic first turn, so he's actually kinda okay past that durability.
VP1 SG boss: Probably about 0.6-0.7 PCHP, overkill damage.
VP2 PC: Spiritual Thorn is gained after he leaves, but he does come back (although only fights Odin, who can't be IDed), and is available in the SG, so... whatever, I'll consider it.
VP2 boss: I don't consider damage reduction, no different than Ashnard to me. VP2 PCHP is something I have a hard time pegging down, he's definitely kinda fragile as far as I'm concerned. Just over a quarter Loki's HP in a game with higher damage... uh... half PC sounds right.
VP2 SG boss: Obsessed Ex is pretty much Anarchic Entity with 4.5x the HP... but faces higher damage too certainly. Probably a bit under 2x? So call him a bit over PCHP, 1.25ish. He also has more magic damage by quite a ways, though the mixed moves aren't too different.
Doglike Lezard: Because my votes wouldn't be Fenrir-approved otherwise. Anyway, while Doglike Lezard is a terrible boss, it is only fair to scale him against other dogs. So... 1.6x HP, 2x overkill damage.

In general, Dog >>> Obsessed Ex >= VP1 SG >> VP2 PC ~= VP2 boss > VP1 boss >> VP1 PC

Anyway, I'll note the number of Lezards that win each fight.

Lezard Valeth vs. Loki (Valkyrie Profile): 0.5/7 Lezard wins. Dog gets one-shotted by Indiscriminate (and I have more respect for Loki's speed). Obsessed Ex can probably tank one due to elemental resistances, but certainly isn't OHKOing either. VP1 SG is a tie, though, they're the same speed and both KO each other.
Lezard Valeth vs.  Necrophobia (Final Fantasy 5): Abstain. No stat topic + endgame FF5 headaches. These two deserve each other, I can see ways to make Necrophbia awesome and to make him utter suck.
Lezard Valeth vs.  Hrist (Valkyrie Profile 2): Dog wins easily, Obsessed Ex... mm. Hrist needs to block ID, does one shot of Rebellious Repentence or whatever it's called kill? Nah, probably not. 1/7 Lezard wins.
Lezard Valeth vs.  Odin (Valkyrie Profile 2): Dog should pretty much sweep from here I think, even halving fire doesn't slow him down enough. The SG bosses both win as well, just better/not OHKOed. 3/7 Lezard wins.
Lezard Valeth vs.  Kevin (Xenosaga 3): Oh god. Resists fire but Dog still wins, SG bosses too good. VP2 boss I think is a better slugger, but not VP2 PC who relies on ID. VP1 boss... surely Kevin can handle him. Surely. 4/7 Lezard wins.
Lezard Valeth vs.  Pamela Ibis (Mana Khemia): And suddenly back to people who don't totally suck. Still can't handle the main three, should handle VP2 boss with a limit KO though, gets IDed by VP2 PC... and OHKOed by VP1 boss. Wow. 5/7 Lezard wins.
Lezard Valeth vs.  Freya (Final Fantasy 9): Faster so beats VP1 boss, berserk forces VP2 PC into shitty damage which she can outslug, but gets IDed by VP2 boss. 4/7 Lezard wins.
Lezard Valeth vs.  Dragoon (Final Fantasy 3): Voting on DS here. Anyway, Dragoon does OHKO damage with Jump, which takes out... an awful lot of the field, since he's above average speed. Dog obviously slaughters, Obsessed Ex... will get off ID unless Dragoon can chip, which he can with the holy itemcast. 1/7 Lezard wins.
Lezard Valeth vs.  Neclord (Suikoden series): Uh. Think he can outtank VP1 boss despite being weak to holy, obviously badly outslugs all the other non-good forms. SG bosses are too much for him, though, as is the dog, who at least takes 3 hits to win! 3/7 Lezard wins.
Lezard Valeth vs.  Alicia (Valkyrie Profile 2): Death immunity, some element resistance, and infinite healing crush most of the Lezards. She lacks the offence to one-round Obsessed Ex though, and can't get enough fire resist to deal with the dog. 2/7 Lezard wins.
Lezard Valeth vs.  Selan (w/ Ice Valk spell legal) (Lufia 2): She should just survive a hit from VP1 boss, can turtle for IP against both VP2 bosses, can't deal with VP2 PC though. 3/7 Lezard wins.
Lezard Valeth vs.  L'Arachel (Fire Emblem 8): All the res is a problem for a bunch of the Lezards. Some do have some light holy resist which helps. She loses to dog, the two with 100% ID, and VP1 SG though. Oh and Reflect is awful. Never mind. 6/7 Lezard wins.
Lezard Valeth vs.  Clarine (Fire Emblem 6): Largely as above, though Clarine has different elements and more evade. Still don't think it's enough to outslug dog, still can't dodge limits ever, still loses to VP1 SG, still loses to reflect. 6/7 Lezard wins.
Lezard Valeth vs. Marle (w/ Valkyrie crossbow) (Chrono Trigger): MDef and haste/heals gets her past some, but she can't dodge limits, beat the dog, or the SG. Haste/Provoke owns VP2 PC. 4/7 Lezard wins.
Lezard Valeth vs. Lise (Seiken Densetsu 3): Can dodge VP2's limit... certainly can't handle the big three though, and gets IDed by VP2 PC. 4/7 Lezard wins.
Lezard Valeth vs. Cistina (Tactics Ogre PSP): Outspeeds so beats VP1, but gets IDed... and don't quite think her healing game can handle VP2 boss at full HP (and trying to slug gets her IDed there too). 5/7 Lezard wins.
Lezard Valeth vs. Selene (Grandia 2): Handles VP1 scrubs, VP2 PC, and... probably outslugs VP2 boss as well. Hell, has a shot at OHKOing the VP1 SG (her best move and the HP average aren't listed, grr) but I'll kneejerk not. 3/7 Lezard wins.
Lezard Valeth vs. Mist (Fire Emblem series): Her res isn't as good, but it's still enough to handle VP2 PC and VP1 reasonable forms. Can't dodge limits. 4/7 Lezard wins.
Lezard Valeth vs. Dupa (Suikoden 3): Dupa is slow and below average damage, so he's all kinds of bait to almost everything Lezard does. Should outslug VP1 PC at least. 6/7 Lezard wins.
Lezard Valeth vs. Leone (Valkyrie Profile 2): Beats both VP1... don't think she can limit dodge well though, and leaves before ID blockers are available so too bad there. 5/7 Lezard wins.
Lezard Valeth vs. Quistis (Final Fantasy 8): Against the VP2 bosses I'd probably let her get off a limit? Nah, SG's magic is too good. Also beats VP1 PC. Loses to VP1 boss though. 5/7 Lezard wins.
Lezard Valeth vs. Valkyrie Maribelle (Fire Emblem Awakening): Usual valkyrie nonsense, only worse. Still good enough to handle VP1 PC? Yeah probably, that form is so bad. 6/7 Lezard wins.
Lezard Valeth vs. Mystina (Valkyrie Profile): Okay, let's do this, VP1 PC MAGE-OFF. Uh there's Dampen Magic!... but it's 6 CT and arguably could even hit a blocker. So screw that. Mystina kills on turn 6, Lezard on turn 7. OUT-VP1-PC-MAGE'd. 6/7 Lezard wins.
Lezard Valeth vs. ? (Final Fantasy 6): what is this I don't even. Assuming you don't let ghost win by the suicide move it is so bad that I think VP1 wins. 7/7 Lezard wins.
Lezard Valeth vs. Hrist (Valkyrie Profile 1): Okay someone worse than ghost. 7/7 Lezard wins.