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Author Topic: Proving grounds Puny: Because it's the field Snow deserves.  (Read 1443 times)

superaielman

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Proving grounds Puny: Because it's the field Snow deserves.
« on: August 06, 2014, 03:08:50 PM »
I'm reusing the previous puny field because it was excellent and finding a good puny field is a pain in the ass. Onto the matches!


Maribelle (FE13) vs Paula (EB)
Maribelle vs Slime (SaGa)
Maribelle vs Mogu (BoF1)
Maribelle vs Shiho (VP1)
Maribelle vs Mustadio (FFT)
Maribelle vs Leon (SO2)
Maribelle vs Mullen (G1)
Maribelle vs Alenia (S5)
Maribelle vs Healie (DQ4)
Maribelle vs Rufus (FF7)
Maribelle vs Mukumuku (S2)
Maribelle vs Thief (FF5)

Gong (Shining Force) vs Paula (EB)
Gong vs Slime (SaGa)
Gong vs Mogu (BoF1)
Gong vs Shiho (VP1)
Gong vs Mustadio (FFT)
Gong vs Leon (SO2)
Gong vs Mullen (G1)
Gong vs Alenia (S5)
Gong vs Healie (DQ4)
Gong vs Rufus (FF7)
Gong vs Mukumuku (S2)
Gong vs Thief (FF5)

Edward (FF4o) vs Paula (EB)
Edward vs Slime (SaGa)
Edward vs Mogu (BoF1)
Edward vs Shiho (VP1)
Edward vs Mustadio (FFT)
Edward vs Leon (SO2)
Edward vs Mullen (G1)
Edward vs Alenia (S5)
Edward vs Healie (DQ4)
Edward vs Rufus (FF7)
Edward vs Mukumuku (S2)
Edward vs Thief (FF5)
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
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<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

SnowFire

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Re: Proving grounds Puny: Because it's the field Snow deserves.
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2014, 03:42:20 PM »
Edward later.

Maribelle vs Mogu (BoF1) - Somehow, Mogu 2HKOs (HOW DOES THIS HAPPEN), but Mogu being slow sinks his case here anyway.
Maribelle vs Shiho (VP1) - Even if hypothetically Mari can't outpace Shiho's healing, bird thwacks generate counterattacks, and there's Thoron critz.  But Mari just wins anyway.
Maribelle vs Mustadio (FFT) - Mustadio 4HKOs, doubles, goes first, and isn't 2HKO'd off counter + Mari turn.  The doubles allow him to gun through War Cleric regen as well while Mari's pressure disintegrates with an axe.
Maribelle vs Leon (SO2) - Maribelle kind of a mage spoiler.  And hey, unlike GBA FEs, she doesn't have magic triangle disadvantage to dark!
Maribelle vs Mullen (G1) - uhhh, Mullen should 2HKO, and he sure isn't 2HKOed himself, so this comes down to who wins initiative.  I'm a bit skeptical of the stat topic's claim he's slow, but Valk Maribelle's huge move + range 2, best in the game, makes me inclined to tiebreak for Maribelle anyway.  She should barely 3HKO I guess.  (unless Grandia techs were 'uncounterable'?)
Maribelle vs Alenia (S5) - Alenia MDef hype time?!
Maribelle vs Healie (DQ4) - lol Healie
Maribelle vs Rufus (FF7) - See Mustadio mostly + me giving Rufus more HP than some (solo fight, support credit, etc.).
Maribelle vs Mukumuku (S2) - EDIT: Oh Muku doubles?  I guess, then.
Maribelle vs Thief (FF5) - Thief 5HKOs and doubles.... Mari might 3HKO with Thoron?  That has some accuracy issues, though...  and 4HKOing with Rexcalibur is fine, counter/attack, repeat.  War Cleric might BARELY hustle this one out anyway, that mighty .18 PDur regen is going against ~.21 incoming damage, but with weapon triangle hype to throw some misses and slightly less damage in (~.19?), while the axe slooowly does its work.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 12:03:17 AM by SnowFire »

superaielman

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Re: Proving grounds Puny: Because it's the field Snow deserves.
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2014, 03:54:55 PM »
I lock Maribelle into her non war cleric class.

Maribelle vs Slime (SaGa)- Easy 2HKO.
Maribelle vs Mogu (BoF1)-Mogu doesn't quite double, can't tank through three Maribelle shots and goes second. This is really something special, as Mogu resists her best damage and is hitting her appallingly bad Pdef stat. *Golfclap* MOGU YOU JUST LOST TO SOMEONE WHO IS WORSE AGAINST PHYSICALS THAN ILYANA, GET OUT
Maribelle vs Shiho (VP1)- Shiho's healing isn't good enough.
Maribelle vs Mustadio (FFT)- Guns ignore counters to me entirely and Mustadio can even resist fire. This is hideously ugly.
Maribelle vs Leon (SO2)- Leon can't resist all of her elements.
Maribelle vs Mullen (G1)- She surely 2HKOs Mullen. I'd see Mullen winning if I saw him surviving two Maribelle turns, but nope.
Maribelle vs Alenia (S5)-
Maribelle vs Healie (DQ4)- Healie has some magic resistance, but it's not enough offhand.
Maribelle vs Rufus (FF7)- Counters offset the healing.
Maribelle vs Mukumuku (S2)- Fighter.
Maribelle vs Thief (FF5)- Thief's offense is abhorrant.

Gong vs Slime (SaGa)- Gong makes absolutely no headway against the draining, but I think he can run Slime out of WP? Eventually. His damage is so fucking bad.
Gong vs Mogu (BoF1)- One shot of healing should tip this.
Gong vs Shiho (VP1)- Owned by Wait Reaction. The Gongest of losses.
Gong vs Mustadio (FFT)- It's possible arm aim at the right time could tip this, but this feels right.
Gong vs Leon (SO2)- Leon pushes Gong moderately hard, but the couple of shots of healing are too good. Leon has absolutely no status to help out here either. -_-
Gong vs Mullen (G1)- Mullen is so pathetic. Gong may not have to heal here.
Gong vs Alenia (S5)- Think so, A shot of full healing is really tough for Alenia to deal with.
Gong vs Healie (DQ4)- Far more shots of healing. Gong has better offense and durability, but not by enough.
Gong vs Rufus (FF7)- Healing.
Gong vs Mukumuku (S2)- That shot of healing.
Gong vs Thief (FF5)

Edward vs Slime (SaGa)- Confuse is horribly fatal to Slime, and it isn't like he won't have time to land it.
Edward vs Mogu (BoF1)- Mogu has no worse than a 2HKO here, and I don't respect Edward's confuse that much.
Edward vs Shiho (VP1)-Flipside is that I think I see confuse working here. Edward is technically dead average speed, but I think I see him winning tiebreaks (Deathbringer Cecil notably raises the average, Rosa's not in the speed average).
Edward vs Mustadio (FFT)- Doesn't fear the status.
Edward vs Leon (SO2)-Leon regens 6% PC HP a turn or so. Edward does 16% PC or so. Edward... probably can deal with this? Leon's asking to eat status if he goes for his slow spells, and his physical is so fucking bad (4% PC HP!). Even with Protection and Growth, he is going to have profound problems dealing with Edward. I'm just kneejerking Edward for now, someone else braver than I am can math this out.
Edward vs Mullen (G1)- Rising Dragon Cut splatters Edward so badly.
Edward vs Alenia (S5)- Go first, 2HKO, barely avoid a OHKO.
Edward vs Healie (DQ4)- Faster. Edward basically never wins if his foe goes first.
Edward vs Rufus (FF7)- 4HKOs, can survive three Edward attacks.
Edward vs Mukumuku (S2)- Faster.
Edward vs Thief (FF5)- See Healie.

Maribelle: 9-2. Okay, this convinced me she is at least a low light. Your average junky Suiko fighter will eat her alive, but her Sage form registering on the damage scale and having counters saves her from losing to the likes of Mogu at least.
Gong: 9-2. He had some close matches, but. Approaching average durability and one shot of full healing is awfully good in puny. He's more of a low light.
Edward: 4-7. He doesn't ever win against anyone faster than him. He can beat people slower than him if they have no status protection and no damage whatever. IE: he puny.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2014, 04:05:18 PM by superaielman »
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
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<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Proving grounds Puny: Because it's the field Snow deserves.
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2014, 03:58:14 PM »
For what it's worth resisting fire doesn't bother Maribelle, Rexcalibur is only like 2 less damage and Mustadio's loss in HP more than makes up for that, so he'll be going for Black Costume there. (Not disagreeing with the result necessarily.)

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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Proving grounds Puny: Because it's the field Snow deserves.
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2014, 06:27:56 PM »
I think I take Maribelle as Valkyrie, for myself. Think this is fairly obvious, moreso than Lissa.

Maribelle (FE13) vs Paula (EB) - Holy crap this is awful. Maribelle wins the tiebreak and gets in a crack with Thoron, though, so Paula just -never- gets to land a crack at her, since she's constantly getting PSI Shield broken.
Maribelle vs Slime (SaGa) - Bolganone 2HKOs Slime and Maribelle's mdef makes HP Drain -suck- even for healing, so this is pretty clear. If she doubles (which... isn't entirely unreasonable, Slime rams into the TB speed floors pretty hard), this becomes simply -ugly-.
Maribelle vs Mogu (BoF1) - Maribelle goes first and 3HKOs with Rexcalibur (Mogu can resist both Fire and Lightning). Since Mogu doesn't even 2HKO Twinkles (...) and doesn't double either, this is a slaughter (as Snowfire noted, he loses this match even if you -do- see him 2HKOing).
Maribelle vs Shiho (VP1) - Counters ensure she works this out.
Maribelle vs Mustadio Bunanza (FFT) - Mustadio two-rounds (doubles and 4HKOs), so Maribelle -really- needs to 3HKO back. Nooooooooot happening.
Maribelle vs Leon S. Geeste (SO2) - yyyyyeah, Maribelle 4HKOs and can circumvent Leon's elem resists. Meanwhile, he can't realistically get past her Res.
Maribelle vs Mullen (G1) - 2HKOs and doesn't get OHKOed back.
Maribelle vs Alenia (S5) - Maribelle might not 2HKO, but Alenia -definitely- doesn't 2HKO back either.
Maribelle vs Healie (DQ4) - Oh dear god. Healie even doubles, but does it even matter with -that- damage?
Maribelle vs Rufus Shinra (FF7) - Maribelle 3HKOs and Rufus likely only 5HKOs back. That doesn't work.
Maribelle vs Mukumuku (S2) - Should double and 2HKO. Maribelle might 2HKO back, but don't think it's too likely.
Maribelle vs Thief (FF5) - Thief 5HKOs and triggers counters. That ain't working even when he's doubling, he gets 3HKOed back.

10-2. Yeah, Maribelle's not really Puny. Ranged counters and not being doubled by average as a Valkyrie actually -do- go a long way to keep her viable above the lowest threshold, as does her notable magic durability.

Gong (Shining Force) vs Paula (EB) - Gong manages the amazing feat of 4HKOing Paula with physicals, but it doesn't really matter: the healing means he outlasts her anyway. Freeze kicking once in could suck, but Paula uh 5HKOs him back, so he can afford to just heal once he hits 50% HP.
Gong vs Slime (SaGa) - If you can heal -once- against Slime, you don't lose.
Gong vs Mogu (BoF1) - Oh good lord.
Gong vs Shiho (VP1) - I'm PRETTY sure Shiho's odds of winning here are better than the odds of Gong landing -two- doubled crits in a row at a point where she's recharging. Otherwise, you need to at least 4HKO Shiho to win, and Gong's very bad at managing this (Renault could make do due to counters and ACTUALLY BETTER DAMAGE, Gong uh).
Gong vs Mustadio Bunanza (FFT) - Yeah, don't think Arm Aim really tips this, Mustadio and Gong roughly 6HKO each other and Gong's full healing is a bigger threat than a perfectly timed Arm Aim proc.
Gong vs Leon S. Geeste (SO2) - Um yeah, 3% mHP regen ain't tipping this, girl.
Gong vs Mullen (G1) - Gong goes first and 3HKOs. He so doesn't need to heal.
Gong vs Alenia (S5) - Gong 3HKOs at worst and is faster. Alenia doesn't 2HKO.
Gong vs Healie (DQ4) - Uh I'm not so sure. Healie is faster and has more shots of healing, but sports 2/3 the durability, a fraction of the damage (a fraction of Gong's MIGHTY 7HKO. Amazing) and Gong can just use Heal 3 for 50% healing, which he gets a third shot of. I actually think Healie loses this out, especially considering the minor spikiness in ShF physical damage.
Gong vs Rufus Shinra (FF7) - 10HKO damage and half-PC HP against someone with healing.
Gong vs Mukumuku (S2) - That one shot of full healing.
Gong vs Thief (FF5) - See above.

11-1. Yeah, that ain't a Puny. The limited healing means he usually can deal even with 4HKOers as long as the stat split isn't too notable otherwise, and he's close enough to average in general stat spreads to make this viable in Light. Of course, he doesn't really deal with healers who have anything resembling resource depth (that loss to SHIHO is pretty telling, and he'd eat it to Nara as well due to 4HKOing her ass), but them's the breaks.

Edward Chris von Muir (FF4o) vs Paula (EB) - Between the weird coding that possibly makes EB PCs immune to Brainshock at endgame and the fact I think I'd give Paula the average speed the tiebreak (mostly because her being average speed is an endgame thing, she's game-best speed until Poo lands the Cloak of Kings), um yeah. She 2HKOs (!!!) and gets 4HKOed back. If you're 4HKOing Paula, you DESERVE to lose.
Edward Chris von Muir vs Slime (SaGa) - Oh, for crying out LOUD.
Edward Chris von Muir vs Mogu (BoF1) - Not so sure he 2HKOs, but also not so sure I respect Ed's Confuse that much.
Edward Chris von Muir vs Shiho (VP1) - Sigh. Confuse actually works against damage this wretched.
Edward Chris von Muir vs Mustadio Bunanza (FFT) - Faster, statusblockers. The end.
Edward Chris von Muir vs Leon S. Geeste (SO2) - Leon should be able to -at least- 3HKO Ed and the regen of all things is horrifying for the bard. No dice.
Edward Chris von Muir vs Mullen (G1) - Um yeah, Mullen 2HKOs and Edward -3HKOs- back. When you're -3HKOing- Mullen, you really have it coming.
Edward Chris von Muir vs Alenia (S5) - I pulled my HP estimations on Alena up a little bit, so I think she should avoid eating a 2HKO here. This is good, since Edward gets almost OHKOed back.
Edward Chris von Muir vs Healie (DQ4) - Faster!
Edward Chris von Muir vs Rufus Shinra (FF7) - Comparable durability! Rufus is much faster.
Edward Chris von Muir vs Mukumuku (S2) - Damn.
Edward Chris von Muir vs Thief (FF5) - Faster.

2-10. Dear god, he's so bad.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 07:03:26 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
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Random Consonant

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Re: Proving grounds Puny: Because it's the field Snow deserves.
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2014, 07:22:49 PM »
Maribelle (FE13) vs Paula (EB) - Something about thunderbolts and lightning.
Maribelle vs Slime (SaGa) - Something about Slime being horrible.
Maribelle vs Mogu (BoF1) - Something about Mogu failing it up
Maribelle vs Shiho (VP1) - Something about counters.
Maribelle vs Mustadio (FFT) - Something that I cannot tell you about now.
Maribelle vs Leon (SO2) - Something about Leon's terrible damage.
Maribelle vs Mullen (G1) - Something about Mullen's tiny fraction of PCHP.
Maribelle vs Alenia (S5) - Something about Alenia's tiny fraction of PCHP.
Maribelle vs Healie (DQ4) - Something about Healie's terrible damage.
Maribelle vs Rufus (FF7) - Something about solo boss credit being worthless as usual.
Maribelle vs Mukumuku (S2) - Something about squirrels doubling.
Maribelle vs Thief (FF5) - Something about thief mdef.

Gong (Shining Force) vs Paula (EB) - Uhhh probably?  At a guess they 4HKO each other, but Gong can heal.
Gong vs Slime (SaGa) - Can run Slime out of WP at absolute worst, 22HKO damage pressures nothing.
Gong vs Mogu (BoF1) - no.
Gong vs Shiho (VP1) - Gong's not really outpacing the healing.
Gong vs Mustadio (FFT)
Gong vs Leon (SO2) - Well this sure is a slapfight.
Gong vs Mullen (G1) - Gong 3HKOing something should not be happening ever and yet it is.  Go Mullen.
Gong vs Alenia (S5) - And Alenia probably manages to get 2HKOed to me, pathetic.
Gong vs Healie (DQ4) - Well this sure is a slapfight.  Heal 1 is way too cost efficient here though I would think.
Gong vs Rufus (FF7) - :rufus:
Gong vs Mukumuku (S2)
Gong vs Thief (FF5)

Edward (FF4o) vs Paula (EB) - Similarly pathetic durability, but one can actually deal something resembling damage.
Edward vs Slime (SaGa) - SLIME.
Edward vs Mogu (BoF1) - Surely.
Edward vs Shiho (VP1) - *sigh*
Edward vs Mustadio (FFT) - Surely.
Edward vs Leon (SO2) - *sigh*
Edward vs Mullen (G1) - Really now.
Edward vs Alenia (S5) - That difference between Elfboy's boss scaling and mine.
Edward vs Healie (DQ4) - welp.
Edward vs Rufus (FF7) - Just gonna go with the flow on this one.
Edward vs Mukumuku (S2) - Squirrel.
Edward vs Thief (FF5)
« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 05:19:55 PM by Random Consonant »

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Proving grounds Puny: Because it's the field Snow deserves.
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2014, 11:01:28 PM »
Maribelle vs Slime (SaGa): Maribelle falls just short of 2HKOing Slime, which outpaces the draining even before considering her doubleturns or the possibility of doubling.
Maribelle vs Mogu (BoF1): Faster, 3HKOs and has a counter and isn't OHKOed.
Maribelle vs Shiho (VP1): 4HKOing is good enough.
Maribelle vs Mustadio (FFT): Maribelle might take this if she didn't get doubled. Maybe. Not going to bother figuring that one out!
Maribelle vs Leon (SO2): I'm going to assume this is correct.
Maribelle vs Mullen (G1): Well, if Snowfire thinks this is at all close...
Maribelle vs Alenia (S5): Wrong damage type, Alenia.
Maribelle vs Healie (DQ4): Going with the crowd here.
Maribelle vs Rufus (FF7): This isn't horribly one-sided to me I don't think, but still.
Maribelle vs Mukumuku (S2): Yeah, he doubles. Which makes this ugly as he should 3HKO first.
Maribelle vs Thief (FF5): Thief has a 5HKO and doubles! But he triggers counters. So Maribelle 3HKOs him first. (4HKOs? It doesn't matter.)

For my own reference: Gong does 15% damage.

Gong vs Slime (SaGa): Runs Slime out of resources. Gong running someone else out of resources, WTF is this.
Gong vs Mogu (BoF1): Mogu has a 4HKO, Gong has a 5HKO here. So he almost wins the slugfest, so toss in one shot of full healing and he has this.
Gong vs Shiho (VP1): If Shiho's defence is average then Gong does 74% to her over four turns. Even with her defence lowering things some, Heal should patch her up just fine forever.
Gong vs Mustadio (FFT): They have very similar damage/durability (7HKO), so Gong's healing wins? Unless Arm Aim can lock him down adequately. Which is quite possible. Mustadio wants to Arm Aim, physical, Arm Aim, physical physical... which Gong can ward off by healing after four hits which yeah he can easily afford and a three-Arm Aim chain surely isn't happening before Gong kills.
Gong vs Leon (SO2): Why is Leon so bad.
Gong vs Mullen (G1)
Gong vs Alenia (S5): Gong will be 3HKOed but use that shot of full healing on his third turn so gets in four attacks. Is that enough? I... am honestly not sure, Alenia's parry could tilt things... but kneejerk is it probably is, since he is much faster.
Gong vs Healie (DQ4): Heal 1 is actually shockingly efficient here, and that's a problem.
Gong vs Rufus (FF7): Shrug.
Gong vs Mukumuku (S2): Muku has a 5HKO which is somewhat spiky so I probably wouldn't let Gong just heal at the last second... still Heal 3's sprinkled appropriately should take this.
Gong vs Thief (FF5): Not much to say.

Edward vs Slime (SaGa): Slime's lack of status resistance and horrid speed makes me think Edward can take this.
Edward vs Mogu (BoF1): Close enough but yeah see Super.
Edward vs Shiho (VP1): Long stally matches give Edward time to work his magic.
Edward vs Mustadio (FFT): Statusblockers.
Edward vs Leon (SO2): That regen tilts this to me. Leon's damage isn't THAT horrid, he'll get some shots of status misses and it should only take like 3.
Edward vs Mullen (G1): Oh wow.
Edward vs Alenia (S5): Not inclined to buy Edward 2HKOing here.
Edward vs Healie (DQ4): OH RIGHT Edward's status never hits faster opponents, WTF.
Edward vs Rufus (FF7): Sure why not.
Edward vs Mukumuku (S2): Squirrel too strong.
Edward vs Thief (FF5) : Holy crap really. (5-6HKOs, survives the return fire at least that long.)

Gong 10-1. His damage is bad (though not completely wretched like Shiho), but 1-3 shots of healing goes a long, long way to staying afloat of Punies.
Maribelle 9-2. She's no Puny. Just a poor Light.
Edward 2-9. On the other hand, he is Puny.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 12:52:48 AM by Dark Holy Elf »

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Dhyerwolf

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Re: Proving grounds Puny: Because it's the field Snow deserves.
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2014, 02:52:17 AM »
So I default to Sage, but if Maribelle wants War Monk because it's better overall for a season, then she'll go for after). In this I would only let her pick 1 a week (and certainly Sage fares better than War Monk. War Monk wins 1 match that Sage doesn't, Sage probably wins 3 that War Monk doesn't)
Maribelle (FE13) vs Paula (EB)- War Monk wins (and for once due to damage typing despite the lack of it), Sage loses
Maribelle vs Slime (SaGa)- Either form wins.
Maribelle vs Mogu (BoF1)- Sage wins this. I...suspect that War Monk does not (Even with Mogu's limited damage and the fact that he will eventually be doubled...he does too much damage until then)
Maribelle vs Shiho (VP1)- Well, by my view here either form can win to just to nulling Shiho's damage (although converting to division defense for Maribelle would make War Monk a loss here)
Maribelle vs Mustadio (FFT)- FE 13 Res gets no status resistance credit to me (it will be all evasion). Needless to say that Mustadio beats either form
Maribelle vs Leon (SO2)- Either win/It's Leon
Maribelle vs Mullen (G1)- Sage wins. War Monk...is beaten by...Alhealer+. ALHEALER+. MARIBELLE VERSUS 10% INFINITE HEALING.
Maribelle vs Alenia (S5)- Either win/It's Alenia
Maribelle vs Healie (DQ4)- Either win/It's Healie
Maribelle vs Rufus (FF7)- OKay, against War Monk, Rufus doubles, but does it help enough? After all, Renewal is basically wiping away his damage on the double. Now...he then has natural doubles, and god is Maribelle's damage bad. So...yeah, War Monk loses. Sage also probably loses, since Rufus has 2 PC HP, and she doesn't exactly have Pdur (And Mdef is the other stat he has)
Maribelle vs Mukumuku (S2)- I think Mukumuku is basically right at the point where War Monk can kind of win versus fighters. He's right at the 5HKO area, which is right where Renewal can start working. But still...doubles every once in a while. She...may manage to kill here in time though!!! He does 3HKO her (barely), but 2 counters+2 attacks from her should do it for me.
Maribelle vs Thief (FF5)

Not Gong. I don't have to generally think about what way to take SF levels anymore, and I certainly am not going to for Gong (Needless to say, at the Gong does 1 damage option, he probably loses to all. In the Gong doesn't fail at damage, he wins most)

Not Edward. I played FF4A to never vote on 4o again!

Maribelle 9-3 (Sage isn't Puny, just a bad Light. War Monk, at 7-5 is still not a Puny, but is pushing it)
...into the nightfall.

SnowFire

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Re: Proving grounds Puny: Because it's the field Snow deserves.
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2014, 02:54:55 AM »
FWIW I'd be strongly inclined to include Rosa in the damage average which makes Edward's damage marginally less sucky.  (Or, alternatively, to kick Rydia out if you're doing a damage average for the defense of Fabul, which also makes him look better if frailer.)  But still bad.

Edward vs Mogu (BoF1) - Pathetic.
Edward vs Shiho (VP1)
Edward vs Mustadio (FFT)
Edward vs Leon (SO2) - Not gonna hype the spells being slow opening Leon up to status.
Edward vs Mullen (G1)
Edward vs Alenia (S5) Alenia like 3HKOs here (effectively) while going last.  Even if she 2HKOs she runs a real risk of getting 2HKOed herself pending slight damage adjustment for Edward via Rosa.  Give the bard SOME respect.
Edward vs Healie (DQ4) - Healie damage indescribably bad, 2-character averages do weird things so I'm inclined to include the whole cast at similar levels, which makes Healie just pathetic.
Edward vs Rufus (FF7)
Edward vs Mukumuku (S2)
Edward vs Thief (FF5) - Thief 5HKOs, Edward 5HKOs, Thief is faster.  Epic match even if Edward gets 'robbbed.'

Maribelle: 7-3
Edward: 3-7

Rondo of Swords write-ins!  Since people did this a bunch in the PG High Godlike thread, why not.  Rondo of Swords is one of those rare games where you probably understand the mechanics more from reading the LP then from playing the game - or at least if you try and learn it by playing it, it'd probably require 3-4 times through.  So despite my voting being real shaky here (I HAVE played the game... just got nowhere near finishing), Djinn's excellent stat topic makes this not too bad and pretty fun for shits & giggles.

Marie has 0.27 PDur.  This gets her slaughtered by the likes of Rody.  It is a bad spot to be, even if her offense & MDef are good for Puny.

Marie vs Mogu (BoF1) - OHKO'd by Mogu, fail.  It is borderline, and Marie easily 2HKOs herself if you don't buy it, at least.
Marie vs Shiho (VP1) - Shiho's utter lack of pressure bites her.
Marie vs Mustadio (FFT) - HEAL-LOCKED BY MUSTADIO.  Okay if you use the Bracers allowed interp Musty might need to either use Arm Aim or get punch'in but still.
Marie vs Leon (SO2) - Marie is a legit Puny Mage slayer at least.
Marie vs Mullen (G1) - Rising Dragon Cut OHKOs on the nose, or slightly better if non-Justin characters are included in the average.  Not even needed for me as I don't see Mullen as getting 2HKO'd anyway.
Marie vs Alenia (S5) - OHKOs, isn't OHKOed anyway if you disagree and see Marie as 2HKOing.
Marie vs Healie (DQ4) - rekt (even with high Healie respect, he ain't 2HKOing, and even if he was, infinite healing vs. finite healing)
Marie vs Rufus (FF7) - Rufus manages the heal-lock I think (which you only need .14 PCHP damage to do, it's not hard) and is faster.
Marie vs Mukumuku (S2) - Mukumuku just barely 2HKOs and is just barely faster in the 2HKO race.
Marie vs Thief (FF5) - Congratulations Thief, you cannot heal-lock Marie, at least not without constant 3:2 hype.

Rukia inflicts .14 ITD physical damage, has a less-than-stellar .73 PDur & .53 MDur, and can do some very weak healing at the cost of her turn if a match goes on forever.

Rukia vs Mogu (BoF1) - Mogu comfortably 3HKOs, Rukia doesn't.
Rukia vs Shiho (VP1) - this MIGHT be an infinite match if Rukia can farm Overbreaks fast enough, which might tiebreak for her?  But eh. 
Rukia vs Mustadio (FFT) - Similar damage & durability!  But tankstadio outspeeds anyway.
Rukia vs Leon (SO2) - Leon...  barely misses the 3HKO I think.  Doesn't matter, his bad defense is irrelevant and his HP is okay, so Rukia isn't 4HKOing, or even 5HKOing if Leon's spells are so slow as to grant a double.  Rukia MDef is special.
Rukia vs Mullen (G1) - nope.jpg
Rukia vs Alenia (S5) - oh tricky, they each 3HKO the other or the like, but stat topic claims Alenia is slow, so I guess.
Rukia vs Healie (DQ4) - Healie 20HKOs or something, Rukia...  probably gets at least 1 Overbreak, which should tip this.
Rukia vs Rufus (FF7)
Rukia vs Mukumuku (S2) - Squirrel 5HKOs, Rukia...  either just barely 5HKOs on the nose or 6HKOs, and is slower anyway.
Rukia vs Thief (FF5) - Thief collapses crying into her cornflakes after discovering she's 8HKOing.  Rukia only 7HKOs anyway.  Does Thief get that double turn?!  ...yes.  holy crap.

Naji vs. Field.  Naji has .33 PDur & MDur and deals .087 PCHP with a shot if he isn't tanking his defense even further or getting a crit.  Naji loses to BD Performer in a close match, so he's comparable.  BD Performer gets swept except for Healie for me.  Naji just gets swept, as Performer could at least sit on buffed speed + 3 BP to threaten some kind of brave blitz a lot to force early heals.  Naji critz / Overbreak not cutting it.  Much like Performer / Spiritmaster, Naji requires a Very Special class of Megapunies to have interesting matches.

Marie: 5-5
Rukia: 2-8
Naji: 0-10

superaielman

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Re: Proving grounds Puny: Because it's the field Snow deserves.
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2014, 03:46:12 PM »
Quote
FWIW I'd be strongly inclined to include Rosa in the damage average which makes Edward's damage marginally less sucky.  (Or, alternatively, to kick Rydia out if you're doing a damage average for the defense of Fabul, which also makes him look better if frailer.)  But still bad.

Off the top of my head, Rosa probably does roughly the same damage as Edward there so you can math it out from that point. (Holy arrows aren't legal there, etc)
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Re: Proving grounds Puny: Because it's the field Snow deserves.
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2014, 02:03:38 AM »
UGH

Maribelle (FE13) vs Paula (EB) - Like the only match that deserves analyzing from what I can vote on. Obviously, it includes Paula because Super is bad and should feel bad.

First, some stuff regarding PSI Shield since this came up in chat from Mr. CK.
a) PSI Shield/Reflect will bounce spells back at the caster even if it destroys the shield
b) The damage dealt by the shield factors in target's own defense. A PSI Freeze bounced back to a character with the Rain pendant will take greatly reduced damage. Note that PSI attacks in Earthbound do not use a character's stat to determine damage (it simply has a base, then considers the base against the target's resistance)
c) The shield destruction seems to be tied directly to PSI Thunder and not any other lightning type attack. Kraken using Crashing Boom Bang or whatever does not cause a PSI Power Shield to reflect the spell.

All that being said, the tl;dr version - PSI Shield is a non-factor in this battle. Even though Paula can bounce spells back, it will basically not scratch Maribelle due to her high RES. She also can't afford to really do anything else though because her durability is ass, and any time she decides to attack, she'll get countered and probably die subsequently shortly after (Paula durability is awful). You could make the argument that Arc Thunder doesn't draw any similarities to PSI Thunder but I'm not sure if I buy that argument at all. Both attacks are clearly magic in their own game and Crashing Boom Bang or whatever is specifically enemy based. Arc Thunder has the similarity with PSI Thunder in that it is both PC and enemy accessible as well. And well, as soon as you see the shield not working in Paula's favour, well...this goes downhill fast.

Maribelle vs Shiho (VP1) - Heal on VP1's charge is just too slow for this to work I feel. Even if Wait Reaction probably avoids counters, it doesn't amount to much.
Maribelle vs Mustadio (FFT) - See Super. This is horribly one sided.
Maribelle vs Alenia (S5) - Alenia winning anything ever against characters not named Euram.
Maribelle vs Rufus (FF7) - Counters rip apart Rufus of the mighty 10HKO
Maribelle vs Thief (FF5) - ....
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Dhyerwolf

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Re: Proving grounds Puny: Because it's the field Snow deserves.
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2014, 02:26:42 AM »
I would personally likely see the shield dispel as a unique aspect of PSI Thunder rather than all Thunder attacks given there are enemy Thunder attacks that run into it. That said...yeah, it doesn't matter I suppose. Subtractive Mdef for Maribelle does in fact render that pointless...but, if the shield lasts eternally, I guess that won't technically matter. Paula can use her physical and still be fine on counters.

So...how much Lightning do enemies have? Granted...jeez, PSI Thunder on enemies will still be horrible attack. The chance of it both targeting Paula (decent) and the chance of it hitting (... ... ...) probably make it not even that relevant though.
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DragonKnight Zero

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Re: Proving grounds Puny: Because it's the field Snow deserves.
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2014, 05:23:49 AM »
Edward (FF4o) vs Paula (EB)
Edward vs Slime (SaGa)
Edward vs Mogu (BoF1)
Edward vs Shiho (VP1)
Edward vs Mustadio (FFT)  Blocks Confuse and claims
Edward vs Leon (SO2)  HP regen is a feature of the Holy Scriptures and not Ancient Wisdom so Leon loses magic damage to equip it.  Still probably a better choice since I see his damage as so bad that Edward lives long enough to inflict Silence.  Deep Mist will hit before then which makes a mockery of Edward's accuracy.  HP regen favors Leon in the ensuing slapfight.
Edward vs Mullen (G1)
Edward vs Alenia (S5)
Edward vs Healie (DQ4)
Edward vs Rufus (FF7) Rufus can be hit by Sleep.  Doesn't matter since Edward is giving up offense to land it and can't do much when he does.
Edward vs Mukumuku (S2)
Edward vs Thief (FF5)  Does more damage faster.

Magic Fanatic

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Re: Proving grounds Puny: Because it's the field Snow deserves.
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2014, 11:31:26 AM »
I would personally likely see the shield dispel as a unique aspect of PSI Thunder rather than all Thunder attacks given there are enemy Thunder attacks that run into it. That said...yeah, it doesn't matter I suppose. Subtractive Mdef for Maribelle does in fact render that pointless...but, if the shield lasts eternally, I guess that won't technically matter. Paula can use her physical and still be fine on counters.

So...how much Lightning do enemies have? Granted...jeez, PSI Thunder on enemies will still be horrible attack. The chance of it both targeting Paula (decent) and the chance of it hitting (... ... ...) probably make it not even that relevant though.

Actual PSI Thunder on the enemy end is pretty rare.  There's six enemies in the entire game that have PSI Thunder Alpha, five that have PSI Thunder Beta, one that has PSI Thunder Gamma, and PSI Thunder Omega is a spell that is entirely unique to Poo - not even enemies have it.

Lists:
http://starmen.net/mother2/ebdb/psi.php?psi=12
http://starmen.net/mother2/ebdb/psi.php?psi=13
http://starmen.net/mother2/ebdb/psi.php?psi=14
http://starmen.net/mother2/ebdb/psi.php?psi=15

DjinnAndTonic

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Re: Proving grounds Puny: Because it's the field Snow deserves.
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2014, 03:07:18 PM »
Rondo of Swords write-ins!  Since people did this a bunch in the PG High Godlike thread, why not.  Rondo of Swords is one of those rare games where you probably understand the mechanics more from reading the LP then from playing the game - or at least if you try and learn it by playing it, it'd probably require 3-4 times through.  So despite my voting being real shaky here (I HAVE played the game... just got nowhere near finishing), Djinn's excellent stat topic makes this not too bad and pretty fun for shits & giggles.

Marie has 0.27 PDur.  This gets her slaughtered by the likes of Rody.  It is a bad spot to be, even if her offense & MDef are good for Puny.

Marie vs Mogu (BoF1) - OHKO'd by Mogu, fail.  It is borderline, and Marie easily 2HKOs herself if you don't buy it, at least.
Marie vs Shiho (VP1) - Shiho's utter lack of pressure bites her.
Marie vs Mustadio (FFT) - HEAL-LOCKED BY MUSTADIO.  Okay if you use the Bracers allowed interp Musty might need to either use Arm Aim or get punch'in but still.
Marie vs Leon (SO2) - Marie is a legit Puny Mage slayer at least.
Marie vs Mullen (G1) - Rising Dragon Cut OHKOs on the nose, or slightly better if non-Justin characters are included in the average.  Not even needed for me as I don't see Mullen as getting 2HKO'd anyway.
Marie vs Alenia (S5) - OHKOs, isn't OHKOed anyway if you disagree and see Marie as 2HKOing.
Marie vs Healie (DQ4) - rekt (even with high Healie respect, he ain't 2HKOing, and even if he was, infinite healing vs. finite healing)
Marie vs Rufus (FF7) - Rufus manages the heal-lock I think (which you only need .14 PCHP damage to do, it's not hard) and is faster.
Marie vs Mukumuku (S2) - Mukumuku just barely 2HKOs and is just barely faster in the 2HKO race.
Marie vs Thief (FF5) - Congratulations Thief, you cannot heal-lock Marie, at least not without constant 3:2 hype.

Rukia inflicts .14 ITD physical damage, has a less-than-stellar .73 PDur & .53 MDur, and can do some very weak healing at the cost of her turn if a match goes on forever.

Rukia vs Mogu (BoF1) - Mogu comfortably 3HKOs, Rukia doesn't.
Rukia vs Shiho (VP1) - this MIGHT be an infinite match if Rukia can farm Overbreaks fast enough, which might tiebreak for her?  But eh. 
Rukia vs Mustadio (FFT) - Similar damage & durability!  But tankstadio outspeeds anyway.
Rukia vs Leon (SO2) - Leon...  barely misses the 3HKO I think.  Doesn't matter, his bad defense is irrelevant and his HP is okay, so Rukia isn't 4HKOing, or even 5HKOing if Leon's spells are so slow as to grant a double.  Rukia MDef is special.
Rukia vs Mullen (G1) - nope.jpg
Rukia vs Alenia (S5) - oh tricky, they each 3HKO the other or the like, but stat topic claims Alenia is slow, so I guess.
Rukia vs Healie (DQ4) - Healie 20HKOs or something, Rukia...  probably gets at least 1 Overbreak, which should tip this.
Rukia vs Rufus (FF7)
Rukia vs Mukumuku (S2) - Squirrel 5HKOs, Rukia...  either just barely 5HKOs on the nose or 6HKOs, and is slower anyway.
Rukia vs Thief (FF5) - Thief collapses crying into her cornflakes after discovering she's 8HKOing.  Rukia only 7HKOs anyway.  Does Thief get that double turn?!  ...yes.  holy crap.

Naji vs. Field.  Naji has .33 PDur & MDur and deals .087 PCHP with a shot if he isn't tanking his defense even further or getting a crit.  Naji loses to BD Performer in a close match, so he's comparable.  BD Performer gets swept except for Healie for me.  Naji just gets swept, as Performer could at least sit on buffed speed + 3 BP to threaten some kind of brave blitz a lot to force early heals.  Naji critz / Overbreak not cutting it.  Much like Performer / Spiritmaster, Naji requires a Very Special class of Megapunies to have interesting matches.

Marie: 5-5
Rukia: 2-8
Naji: 0-10

You know, reading this topic, my first thought was "Man, this really IS a good Puny field, I wonder how the Rondo of Swords punies would fair in this topic?" Followed roughly five minutes later with "SnowFire, you're my hero."

Notably, though, is that Naji has a decent argument for beating Leon if you see his spells as slow enough that Naji nukes his MP on the second turn. And I think Leon's frail enough that even Naji might be able to outslug his physical given time to build up to an OverBreak or hit some crits?
« Last Edit: August 24, 2014, 04:43:27 PM by DjinnAndTonic »