Author Topic: Doubles Tournament: Round 1, Week 1  (Read 1309 times)

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Doubles Tournament: Round 1, Week 1
« on: July 08, 2015, 07:45:26 AM »
As a note, it is generally safe to assume that teams are designed around system-specific synergy: Chrono Trigger double techs, Fire Emblem supports, Suikoden III mounts, Soul Nomad rooms, etc etc.  That's the whole point afterall!  However, feel free to vote around what makes sense to you as a voter.

Chie Satonaka and Yukiko Amagi (Persona 4) vs Kiryl and Alena (Dragon Quest IV)
Nina and Ursula (Breath of Fire IV) vs Raquel Applegate and Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4)
Hugo and Fubar (Suikoden III) vs Wren and Demi (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millennium)
Brahms and Silmeria (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Razeluxe Meitzen and Etward Dysler (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy)

Anna and Tiki (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Millenia and Elena (Grandia II)
Samurai and Summoner (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Robo and Ayla (Chrono Trigger)
Yuri and Karin (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Lenneth and Lucian (Valkyrie Profile)
Terra and Gogo (Final Fantasy VI) vs Freyjadour and Lyon (Suikoden V)
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Re: Doubles Tournament: Round 1, Week 1
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2015, 01:18:35 PM »
Chie Satonaka and Yukiko Amagi (Persona 4) vs Kiryl and Alena (Dragon Quest IV)
Nina and Ursula (Breath of Fire IV) vs Raquel Applegate and Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4) - Does Raquel's magic defense affect status accuracy against her?
Hugo and Fubar (Suikoden III) vs Wren and Demi (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millennium) - Unless I am crazy mistaken, I'd think Hugo and Fubar's combination attack let them completely wreck one of either Demi or Wren and that's more or less the end of the match from there?
Brahms and Silmeria (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Razeluxe Meitzen and Etward Dysler (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy)

Anna and Tiki (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Millenia and Elena (Grandia II)
Samurai and Summoner (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Robo and Ayla (Chrono Trigger) - Samurai can pull out a Protect/Shell for Summoner, but I'm not entirely sure it matters?
Yuri and Karin (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Lenneth and Lucian (Valkyrie Profile)
Terra and Gogo (Final Fantasy VI) vs Freyjadour and Lyon (Suikoden V)

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Re: Doubles Tournament: Round 1, Week 1
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2015, 02:16:07 PM »
Chie Satonaka and Yukiko Amagi (Persona 4) vs Kiryl and Alena (Dragon Quest IV) - Kabuff and Katwhack are bad news here, so is the backended offense on Chie. Chie's best bet is trying to land Skull Cracker's confuse on Kyril, but that doesn't even necessarily get the girls out of the woods and I don't consider that turn one.
Nina Wyndia and Ursula (Breath of Fire IV) vs Raquel Applegate and Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4) - Raquel equips for Confuse and Death immunity and her speed becomes truly awful... but I have my doubts that Nina and Ursula can blitz her out even then. Arnaud casting Hyper on her makes things -very- problematic, since this means she now can OHKO any of the girls at will and Arnaud can wreck their shit with Slow Down and is faster. I mean, once Hyper is up, KOing Ursula traps Nina into a healing hoop that crushes her long-term, and there's the risk that Exorcism just KOs both because they're both fragile, arguably. I just suspect they have to pull off a lot of hoop-jumping which they can't easily afford (and Ursula may have to give up the Phantom Dress here, too), especially since Arnaud is faster than Ursula and can tide the battle against the girls pretty fast. It'd be nice if they could avoid Raquel's Red Zone range safely, too, but that's a bad elemental/damage mix for it. If they actually -can-, though, I'll vote the other way instantly. OF COURSE, if status rates on Ursula are overrated, this makes everything even worse for them.
Hugo and Fubar (Suikoden III) vs Wren and Demi (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millennium) - Good lord.
Brahms and Silmeria (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Razeluxe Meitzen and Etward Dysler (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) - Stone is a nice thought, but it isn't even a guaranteed win and Et gets a turn before everybody else, at which point she can drop Twinkle Moon spam into Et Circle Rondo, which is likely to wreck Silmeria before she gets a second turn. They likely can one-turn Et, at least! But it's likely not enough due to timed sphere nonsense.

Anna and Tiki (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Millenia and Elena (Grandia II) - EDIT: yeah no, oversold Anna and Tiki offense here.
Samurai and Summoner (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Robo and Ayla (Chrono Trigger) - Goooodbye.
Yuri and Karin (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Lenneth and Lucian (Valkyrie Profile) - Yuri and Karin at least win average speed tiebreaks, so yeah.
Terra and Gogo (Final Fantasy VI) vs Freyjadour Falenas and Lyon (Suikoden V) - Sure.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2015, 05:20:26 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
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SnowFire

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Re: Doubles Tournament: Round 1, Week 1
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2015, 04:17:58 PM »
Nina and Ursula (Breath of Fire IV) vs Raquel Applegate and Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4)
Dang, Raquel's innate Fire resist messes up a Fire->Wind combo blitz here.  Probably the WA4 team, may take a closer look later.

Anna and Tiki (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Millenia and Elena (Grandia II)
If Anna & Tiki don't pair, SBE Anna -> unload on her -> very very very slowly break Tiki's DS+ with Elena's boatload of healing (Tiki's bad crit rate makes this safe).  After Tiki is forced to a regular DS (I'd only give her one DS+), re-unload.  This...  still might not work, but seems plausible.
However, if they pair up with Tiki in front, things get dire.  Even under SBE I doubt they can break Tiki, and I'd allow Pair-Up Defense to continue to trigger while this is on-going, which can take a further bite out of the damage. Granted, if they can get Tiki low enough, they'll have one more turn after Tiki/Anna separate to try to kill Tiki before Anna can heal her, but still, seems chancy.
I think their best bet is to stall using G2 buffs (!!!), BUT Elena's the one who has them and she's the one who needs to be healing herself lest she get owned by a Pair-Up Attack trigger (very common lategame with an A-Support!).  So it needs to be Millenia debuffs, and...  can those miss?  I'd let Tiki's RES defend it if they can, but hmm, probably not.  But yeah, Stram spam at Tiki in the pair-up + healing spam from Elena reduces the threat level a good deal.  (EDIT: And sure, throw out some SBEs strictly to give Elena time to throw out a few Runners to buff evasion isn't a bad idea either.)
Okay, tentatively the G2 ladies after all.

Samurai and Summoner (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Robo and Ayla (Chrono Trigger)
Haven't run the numbers yet, but seems like it's the FFT crew?  Ayla Triple Kicks Summoner, Samurai drops Protect/Shell, Summoner uses some really fast-casting healing like Moogle, then either wait for Beast Tackle or Robo attack + Ayla Triple Kick (whichever of the two options does more damage) *must* kill Summoner.  If it doesn't, the FFT crew starts stalling with more healing / Golem and MP-busting the CT characters until they win easily.

Additionally I see CK removed the gender specifiers (was trying to make it easier to vote), so if cross-dressing is allowed for Male Summoner / Female Samurai, a Bizen Boat blitz might be plausible even if Summoner is KO'd by the above set - sure kill Summoner, but be left with basic physicals vs. a Blade Grasping, healing Samurai.  (unless there's hype for EATING SUMMONER'S CRYSTAL and restoring MP?!  but nah, dropping treasure chests or Sam stealing it herself is also too possible.)

Yuri and Karin (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Lenneth and Lucian (Valkyrie Profile)
I'm going to assume these 2 are slightly faster than average and can KO Lenneth before she gets a turn, barely (SH2 speed spreads, practically irrelevant in-game if you're not Jutendogi but weirdly relevant in the DL).
Terra and Gogo (Final Fantasy VI) vs Freyjadour and Lyon (Suikoden V)
Could Gogo equip the Memento Ring (other than Relm & Shadow?)?  Seems pretty clear cut if he can't, ID.  If he can...  uh...  Lyon probably still OHKOs with magic before Noiseblaster.  Terra alone isn't worth much, Yellow Scarves mess up a Break strat and Ultima unfocuses.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2015, 05:32:27 PM by SnowFire »

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Re: Doubles Tournament: Round 1, Week 1
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2015, 04:39:26 PM »
Chie Satonaka and Yukiko Amagi (Persona 4) vs Kiryl and Alena (Dragon Quest IV)- Status. Yukiko's also heal locked to boot.
Nina and Ursula (Breath of Fire IV) vs Raquel Applegate and Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4)- Death.
Hugo and Fubar (Suikoden III) vs Wren and Demi (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millennium)- Doubt Hugo/Fubar can OHKO Demi. Wren/Demi may well one round Hugo back, and they don't really need to.
Brahms and Silmeria (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Razeluxe Meitzen and Etward Dysler (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy)

Samurai and Summoner (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Robo and Ayla (Chrono Trigger)- Strong kneejerk.
Yuri and Karin (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Lenneth and Lucian (Valkyrie Profile)- Think so.
Terra and Gogo (Final Fantasy VI) vs Freyjadour and Lyon (Suikoden V)- Lyon makes Gogo explode. That's that.
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Re: Doubles Tournament: Round 1, Week 1
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2015, 05:05:26 PM »
Nina and Ursula (Breath of Fire IV) vs Raquel Applegate and Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4): Raquel just misses the OHKO on Nina. So Arnaud hypers her and she OHKOs Nina, I suppose? This does give Nina a turn and Ursula one as well, but not like they can kill Raquel. (She can block confuse.) Ursula can go for turn 2 Death, but if so she will be slowed before she will have done any more than one Typhoon's worth of damage to Arnaud, which pretty much means she's screwed.

Hugo and Fubar (Suikoden III) vs Wren and Demi (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millennium): Yeah I really don't think Fubar + Hugo can one-shot Demi. If they do then they win, of course, since it means Wren just gets one turn.

Brahms and Silmeria (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Razeluxe Meitzen and Etward Dysler (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy): Nope.

Anna and Tiki (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Millenia and Elena (Grandia II): Pairing up here is suicide, that's one target to SBE and Millenia can use it four times in a row which is a LOT of time for Elena to buff her team to perfect evade and both to lay into Tiki's non-perfect defence (and remember, Trickster doesn't add defence via Pair Up, so only Anna's stats/10 would be added). Snowfire already covered the non-pairup situation.

Samurai and Summoner (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Robo and Ayla (Chrono Trigger): Samurai goes after Robo so Beast Toss is going to OHKO someone. Let's say Summoner. At this point Samurai can do... what, exactly? Bizen Boat is horrible let alone male Samurai's Bizen Boat, Kiyomori lets him tank but not win against two opponents. And of course both FFT PCs must block stop to have a chance. This match isn't especially close at all!

Yuri and Karin (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Lenneth and Lucian (Valkyrie Profile): Yeah, Yuri + Karin can take out Lenneth. The main issue here is that if Lenneth outspeeds either she kills Yuri and the fight is over, and the chance of that is actually pretty high? I dunno what I think about that. Since Yuri/Karin's path to victory if the turn order does go their way is very reliable, and the randomness only exists on their side, I suppose I'll side with them.

Terra and Gogo (Final Fantasy VI) vs Freyjadour and Lyon (Suikoden V): I think Terra might be able to take this if you allow Break... sure Lyon OHKOs Gogo but then Terra breaks Freyjadour... at that point the match hinges on if Vermillion Sky 1.5HKOs Terra (1.5 due to Morph)... and okay it probably does anyway, never mind.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2015, 05:13:40 PM by Dark Holy Elf »

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Re: Doubles Tournament: Round 1, Week 1
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2015, 06:51:36 PM »
Samurai and Summoner (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Robo and Ayla (Chrono Trigger): Samurai goes after Robo so Beast Toss is going to OHKO someone. Let's say Summoner. At this point Samurai can do... what, exactly? Bizen Boat is horrible let alone male Samurai's Bizen Boat, Kiyomori lets him tank but not win against two opponents. And of course both FFT PCs must block stop to have a chance. This match isn't especially close at all!

Hmm, the speed break is closer than I thought (Robo Ribbon hype to the rescue), but Samurai is .85 average speed, and the stat topic now lists Robo at .865 speed (pretty sure it used to be less).  Still, I for one enforce charge times, and while they don't change long-term damage output, they're enough of a hindrance on turn 1 that I'd see the "time to most damaging action" average as slower enough that Samurai should hustle out the speed break here.  (Heck, this is even true if you use a 3-turn speed average where basically the cast only gets faster by 1/3 the amount of charge time for the cast members who need it.)

I do agree that if Samurai is seen as slower the FFT team is screwed.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Doubles Tournament: Round 1, Week 1
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2015, 07:36:30 PM »
Well, for sake of argument, let's assume Samurai beats Robo to the punch. He uses Kiyomori, I suppose. What do you propose Summoner doing? About the only useful thing I can think is hitting Robo so that his HP is randomised, otherwise Beast Toss does 5900 damage (it's a 1.25 multipler to Rock Throw + Uzzi Punch) and OHKOs through Protect. No damaging summon will get off before Robo gets a turn, surely. Moogle is useless because Ayla is waiting for Beast Toss, so there's nothing to heal, Golem doesn't work against techs. So... Robo's HP gets randomised. Let's assume it's a 4.5 for sake of argument. Beast Toss still does *calcs* 3970 damage, which does 2581 or 68% to average after Protect assuming Protect is 5/8. Summoner survives this, sure, but not by much, and Ayla will beat anyone else to the second-turn punch... and will use Triple Kick. Dead Summoner, even with Protect, and Samurai's in no position to win.

Note that the 3970 Beast Toss is actually LOW, because while 4.5 is the average HP for Crisis, it does not lead to average damage overall. If Robo's last HP digit is higher, Beast Toss just gets badass (even OHKOing through Protect). If it's lower, he changes his strategy and we see Shock + Triple Kick instead, which does 3227 before factoring in Protect/Shell or Summoner's faith. But hell, there's a very high chance that even after Protect/Shell, Shock + Triple Kick x2 is fatal, and I can't see anything team FFT can do about that.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2015, 01:36:57 AM by Dark Holy Elf »

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Re: Doubles Tournament: Round 1, Week 1
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2015, 07:53:45 PM »
Chie Satonaka and Yukiko Amagi (Persona 4) vs Kiryl and Alena (Dragon Quest IV) - ID spam at worst.
Nina and Ursula (Breath of Fire IV) vs Raquel Applegate and Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4) - Raquel can equip two statusblockers and tank her stats something fierce and this still doesn't work out too well for the other team.
Hugo and Fubar (Suikoden III) vs Wren and Demi (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millennium) - Yeah Hugo's physical isn't even that strong of a 2HKO, no way is the team one-rounding Demi.

Anna and Tiki (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Millenia and Elena (Grandia II) - Yep.
Samurai and Summoner (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Robo and Ayla (Chrono Trigger) - Yeah I have no idea how the FFT team has anything resembling an argument here
Yuri and Karin (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Lenneth and Lucian (Valkyrie Profile) - I guess?
Terra and Gogo (Final Fantasy VI) vs Freyjadour and Lyon (Suikoden V) - haha oh wow
« Last Edit: July 08, 2015, 07:55:20 PM by Random Consonant »

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Re: Doubles Tournament: Round 1, Week 1
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2015, 05:58:16 AM »
Chie Satonaka and Yukiko Amagi (Persona 4) vs Kiryl and Alena (Dragon Quest IV)
Nina and Ursula (Breath of Fire IV) vs Raquel Applegate and Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4)
Hugo and Fubar (Suikoden III) vs Wren and Demi (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millennium)
Brahms and Silmeria (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Razeluxe Meitzen and Etward Dysler (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy)

Anna and Tiki (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Millenia and Elena (Grandia II)
Samurai and Summoner (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Robo and Ayla (Chrono Trigger)
Yuri and Karin (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Lenneth and Lucian (Valkyrie Profile)
Terra and Gogo (Final Fantasy VI) vs Freyjadour and Lyon (Suikoden V)
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Re: Doubles Tournament: Round 1, Week 1
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2015, 06:03:33 AM »
Chie Satonaka and Yukiko Amagi (Persona 4) vs Kiryl and Alena (Dragon Quest IV)
Nina and Ursula (Breath of Fire IV) vs Raquel Applegate and Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4)
Hugo and Fubar (Suikoden III) vs Wren and Demi (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millennium)
Brahms and Silmeria (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Razeluxe Meitzen and Etward Dysler (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy)

Anna and Tiki (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Millenia and Elena (Grandia II)
Samurai and Summoner (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Robo and Ayla (Chrono Trigger)
Yuri and Karin (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Lenneth and Lucian (Valkyrie Profile)- Abstaining here.
Terra and Gogo (Final Fantasy VI) vs Freyjadour and Lyon (Suikoden V)
...into the nightfall.

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Re: Doubles Tournament: Round 1, Week 1
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2015, 02:30:34 AM »
Chie Satonaka and Yukiko Amagi (Persona 4) vs Kiryl and Alena (Dragon Quest IV)
Nina and Ursula (Breath of Fire IV) vs Raquel Applegate and Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4)
Hugo and Fubar (Suikoden III) vs Wren and Demi (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millennium)
Brahms and Silmeria (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Razeluxe Meitzen and Etward Dysler (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy)

Anna and Tiki (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Millenia and Elena (Grandia II)
Samurai and Summoner (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Robo and Ayla (Chrono Trigger)
Yuri and Karin (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Lenneth and Lucian (Valkyrie Profile)
Terra and Gogo (Final Fantasy VI) vs Freyjadour and Lyon (Suikoden V)
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Re: Doubles Tournament: Round 1, Week 1
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2015, 10:00:28 AM »
Chie Satonaka and Yukiko Amagi (Persona 4) vs Kiryl and Alena (Dragon Quest IV) - Sure ID
Nina and Ursula (Breath of Fire IV) vs Raquel Applegate and Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4) - Sure Raquel hype
Hugo and Fubar (Suikoden III) vs Wren and Demi (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millennium) - Sure Hubar OHKO hype
Brahms and Silmeria (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Razeluxe Meitzen and Etward Dysler (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) - VP1 Brahams might have changed this significantly!

Anna and Tiki (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Millenia and Elena (Grandia II) - Go team Millenia!
Samurai and Summoner (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Robo and Ayla (Chrono Trigger) - Sorry generics.
Yuri and Karin (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Lenneth and Lucian (Valkyrie Profile) - I would totally see enough Judgment Ring misses and VP evade hype for Len and Luc to get a turn and then the SHC team is in trouble.
Terra and Gogo (Final Fantasy VI) vs Freyjadour and Lyon (Suikoden V) - well damn Terra loses without some support here. Amusingly Celes would have been great here.

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Re: Doubles Tournament: Round 1, Week 1
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2015, 07:19:49 AM »
Chie Satonaka and Yukiko Amagi (Persona 4) vs Kiryl and Alena (Dragon Quest IV)- iiiiii
Nina and Ursula (Breath of Fire IV)- i vs Raquel Applegate and Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4)- iiiiiii
Hugo and Fubar (Suikoden III)- ii vs Wren and Demi (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millennium)- iiiiiii
Brahms and Silmeria (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Razeluxe Meitzen and Etward Dysler (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy)- iiiii

Anna and Tiki (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs Millenia and Elena (Grandia II)- iiiiiiii
Samurai and Summoner (Final Fantasy Tactics)- ii vs Robo and Ayla (Chrono Trigger)- iiiiiiii
Yuri and Karin (Shadow Hearts: Covenant)- iiiiii vs Lenneth and Lucian (Valkyrie Profile)- ii
Terra and Gogo (Final Fantasy VI) vs Freyjadour and Lyon (Suikoden V)- iiiiiiiii
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