Author Topic: Proving Grounds Light/Middle: Child soldiers  (Read 821 times)

SnowFire

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Proving Grounds Light/Middle: Child soldiers
« on: March 24, 2016, 05:06:24 AM »
Beruka (Fire Emblem Fates) - Just your average emotionless child assassin.  Japan.jpg (despite being from Nohr…)
Finn (Child of Light) - Just your average child sage w/ a beard @13.  Austria.jpg (despite being from Lemuria…)
Otome (SMT: Devil Survivor 2) - Just your average...  single mother who is also a doctor while also fighting demons?
Yam Koo (Suikoden series) - Just your average fisherman.

Beruka vs. Aelia (VP1)
Beruka vs. Lucca (CT)
Beruka vs. Rikku (FFX)
Beruka vs. Amarant (FF9)
Beruka vs. Kesaran Pasaran (WA4)
Beruka vs. Jeff (EB)
Beruka vs. Geomancer (FFT)
Beruka vs. Guy (Lufia 2)
Beruka vs. Perceval (FE6)
Beruka vs. Mia (Lunar)
Beruka vs. Peco (BoF3)
Beruka vs. Richard (Jeanne d'Arc)
Beruka vs. Vivillion (Pokemon)


Finn vs. Aelia (VP1)
Finn vs. Lucca (CT)
Finn vs. Rikku (FFX)
Finn vs. Amarant (FF9)
Finn vs. Kesaran Pasaran (WA4)
Finn vs. Jeff (EB)
Finn vs. Geomancer (FFT)
Finn vs. Guy (Lufia 2)
Finn vs. Perceval (FE6)
Finn vs. Mia (Lunar)
Finn vs. Peco (BoF3)
Finn vs. Richard (Jeanne d'Arc)
Finn vs. Vivillion (Pokemon)


Otome vs. Aelia (VP1)
Otome vs. Lucca (CT)
Otome vs. Rikku (FFX)
Otome vs. Amarant (FF9)
Otome vs. Kesaran Pasaran (WA4)
Otome vs. Jeff (EB)
Otome vs. Geomancer (FFT)
Otome vs. Guy (Lufia 2)
Otome vs. Perceval (FE6)
Otome vs. Mia (Lunar)
Otome vs. Peco (BoF3)
Otome vs. Richard (Jeanne d'Arc)
Otome vs. Vivillion (Pokemon)


Yam Koo vs. Aelia (VP1)
Yam Koo vs. Lucca (CT)
Yam Koo vs. Rikku (FFX)
Yam Koo vs. Amarant (FF9)
Yam Koo vs. Kesaran Pasaran (WA4)
Yam Koo vs. Jeff (EB)
Yam Koo vs. Geomancer (FFT)
Yam Koo vs. Guy (Lufia 2)
Yam Koo vs. Perceval (FE6)
Yam Koo vs. Mia (Lunar)
Yam Koo vs. Peco (BoF3)
Yam Koo vs. Richard (Jeanne d'Arc)
Yam Koo vs. Vivillion (Pokemon)

Random Consonant

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Re: Proving Grounds Light/Middle: Child soldiers
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2016, 08:25:00 AM »
So Beruka does somewhat above average with a silver axe (not great long term but hey) or marginally below with iron axe +2, and Savage Blow can potentially turn that into a 2HKO if poizn (or gravity I guess, changes nothing here) isn't immuned, so that's cool at least.  Less cool is getting doubled by average speed.

Beruka vs. Aelia (VP1) - think so at any rate, VP1 spearman durability isn't special
Beruka vs. Lucca (CT) - a missed sleep attempt is fatal here and chances are she misses at least one of them
Beruka vs. Rikku (FFX)
Beruka vs. Amarant (FF9) - any excuse for Amarant disrespect I suppose
Beruka vs. Kesaran Pasaran (WA4) - OHKOs so there are only two clones, clones have a godly 47% hit rate so one of them will miss anyways, one attack + two explosions isn't fatal.
Beruka vs. Jeff (EB) - um
Beruka vs. Geomancer (FFT) - oh look WTD against someone with evade and who isn't slow.  Savage Blow is also preventable unless I'm crazy so she can't even fall back on that.
Beruka vs. Guy (Lufia 2) - Flying axe hype?!  Probably not though, he kind of needs to OHKO with the IP since she 3HKOs him even without considering Savage Blow (which he stuffs unless he goes for healing) and counters, 3x MT effectiveness just isn't that good with L2 weapons that are a -224 atk drop from endamge.  e: accidentally undersold the IP somewhat, yeah that probably OHKOs without Berserker so that works for me barring waiting game hype which I don't even want to get into since I'm not sure how she gets around the IP otherwise.
Beruka vs. Perceval (FE6) - Yeah probably not.  Also mounted because yeah that's what Beruka needed to face alongside WTD.
Beruka vs. Mia (Lunar) - I s'pose
Beruka vs. Peco (BoF3) - Peco
Beruka vs. Vivillion (Pokemon) - go first, apply sleep, won't be OHKO'd if Beruka wakes up once.

Finn vs. Aelia (VP1) - 2HKOs to me here.
Finn vs. Lucca (CT)
Finn vs. Rikku (FFX)
Finn vs. Amarant (FF9)
Finn vs. Kesaran Pasaran (WA4) - MT
Finn vs. Jeff (EB) - Jeff
Finn vs. Geomancer (FFT)
Finn vs. Guy (Lufia 2) - Finn probably ends up running into something nasty here to me, actually.
Finn vs. Perceval (FE6)
Finn vs. Mia (Lunar) - sure
Finn vs. Peco (BoF3) - Peco
Finn vs. Vivillion (Pokemon) - sure

Otome vs. Aelia (VP1) - Another two-rounding
Otome vs. Lucca (CT) - experience Lucca Mdef
Otome vs. Rikku (FFX) - The OD will come sooner rather than later yeah.
Otome vs. Amarant (FF9) - Possibly.
Otome vs. Kesaran Pasaran (WA4) - welcome to the dance floor
Otome vs. Jeff (EB) - Jeff problems continue
Otome vs. Geomancer (FFT) - 2HKO'd
Otome vs. Guy (Lufia 2) - the ugly spectre of IP attacks rears its head once more to me
Otome vs. Perceval (FE6) - Otome pls.
Otome vs. Mia (Lunar) - considerably better damage
Otome vs. Peco (BoF3) - Oh boy.
Otome vs. Vivillion (Pokemon) - well at least she halves status odds here so experience dance I guess

Yam Koo vs. Aelia (VP1) - Outslugs.
Yam Koo vs. Lucca (CT) - oh...
Yam Koo vs. Rikku (FFX)
Yam Koo vs. Amarant (FF9) - later
Yam Koo vs. Kesaran Pasaran (WA4) - Well he isn't instadoubled, there's a start.  Not too sure of him OHKOing though, he needs this as 3 clones are probably too much.
Yam Koo vs. Jeff (EB) - Jeff world problems.
Yam Koo vs. Geomancer (FFT)
Yam Koo vs. Guy (Lufia 2)
Yam Koo vs. Perceval (FE6) - Counters probably a bit too much here.
Yam Koo vs. Mia (Lunar) - later
Yam Koo vs. Peco (BoF3) - I don't...
Yam Koo vs. Vivillion (Pokemon)
« Last Edit: March 25, 2016, 06:44:19 AM by Random Consonant »

superaielman

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Re: Proving Grounds Light/Middle: Child soldiers
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2016, 07:46:29 PM »
Yam Koo vs. Aelia (VP1)- Barring Yam Koo getting a 4-3 or the like?
Yam Koo vs. Lucca (CT)- Lucca's strictly a magic spoiler.
Yam Koo vs. Rikku (FFX)- Potions till overdrive. Works. Also boooooooooo Rikku in PG as an opponent, way too much split. 
Yam Koo vs. Amarant (FF9)- Probably. Fuck off Amarant.
Yam Koo vs. Geomancer (FFT)- Better slugger.
Yam Koo vs. Guy (Lufia 2)- Yam Koo has no way to really deal with limits.
Yam Koo vs. Mia (Lunar)- I -think- her defensive buffing manages?
Yam Koo vs. Peco (BoF3)- Kneejerk.
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Proving Grounds Light/Middle: Child soldiers
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2016, 10:26:32 PM »
Don't see poison immunity blocking Savage Blow, it's not poison-themed. Gravity immunity sure. I guess that's a slight DL perk over Poison Strike but nobody should begrudge it that.

Beruka vs. Aelia (VP1): Beruka gets the drop on Aelia due to range, so will get in 3 attacks and a Savage Blow, that's certainly enough.
Beruka vs. Lucca (CT): 2HKOs first. Sleep only buys a turn for Protect and that isn't stopping a 2HKO.
Beruka vs. Rikku (FFX): Gets an overdrive before Beruka gets a crit.
Beruka vs. Amarant (FF9): If I saw Amarant doubling with Throw I'd probably see him taking this, but... not inclined to, especially since Wing Edges IIRC were annoying to get. (And I'm not going to go BMG diving to figure out how much he'd do with other thrown items.) Thus he has no way to kill in two turns without triggering melee counters (which... would still be fine, if the one on turn 2 didn't interrupt his double).
Beruka vs. Kesaran Pasaran (WA4): I don't agree with some of the things Tide scales against bosses, so KP ends up as... 47% HP to me, it looks like. Beruka... barely manages that, even against the higher kill point. Anyway the clones are junk here regardless, unless they move out of the hex first they'll trigger a counter against their boss.
Beruka vs. Geomancer (FFT): Kinda like Amarant, except that Geomancer's melee damage actually 3HKOs, so he kills before a fatal melee counter on turn 2.
Beruka vs. Guy (Lufia 2): Beruka not being doubled, should probably win. IPs... yeah I don't think I'd see Savage Blow adding to them (they don't add to the dual guard gauge) plus the usual not respecting them as much on slower PCs thing. Nooo idea about Flying Axe weakness here (translating FE weakness is difficult), but kneejerking against a weapon I didn't know existed.
Beruka vs. Perceval (FE6): Mounted, doubles. Can't see him losing this.
Beruka vs. Mia (Lunar): Doubled Flame Bomb is gonna hurt. Well, kinda, 4HKO and double. Beruka can counter it with a Hand Axe, and... actually that does 3HKO. So... yeah, don't see a good way for Mia to win before turn 2.
Beruka vs. Peco (BoF3): Savage Blow really helps wear down Peco. Peco is bad.
Beruka vs. Vivillion (Pokemon): Sleep Powder and doubling magic damage. Yikes.


Finn vs. Aelia (VP1): Aelia's soul crush being turn 3 bites her here.
Finn vs. Lucca (CT): Lucca's good against mages, yeah.
Finn vs. Rikku (FFX): Element resistance nonsense.
Finn vs. Amarant (FF9): Element resistance nonsense.
Finn vs. Kesaran Pasaran (WA4): Yeah MT removes what little doubt I would have had.
Finn vs. Geomancer (FFT): Element resistance nonsense.
Finn vs. Guy (Lufia 2): 2HKOs first.
Finn vs. Perceval (FE6): 2HKOs first.
Finn vs. Mia (Lunar): Mia only 4HKOs Finn, actually (she does like 35%), his mdur is solid like that. So he's faster and certainly isn't failing to 4HKO first... in fact it's possible he still 3HKOs, depending on how good that MDef actually is in practice. So she goes Wind Cane after all, and still resists lightning. But... obviously she still isn't doing better than a 4HKO, and Finn 3HKOs at worst.
Finn vs. Peco (BoF3): I don't see any lightning resistance listed for Peco. He fries.
Finn vs. Vivillion (Pokemon): Bug is getting overkilled if Finn gets a turn. So... sleep, use two resulting turns to try something. Bug certainly isn't 2HKOing, but maybe Quiver Dance...? Hmm, no, even doubling MDef won't save it. If it's fast enough to swing in a third, Finn wakes up and takes off almost all of its HP, and Vivillion puts him back to sleep then probably wins, but that's... hmm. That actually barely works.


Yam Koo vs. Aelia (VP1): Spear fight? Anyway can't imagine Yam Koo successfully 3HKOS here, so RIP. I could hype evade some for both sides but eh.
Yam Koo vs. Lucca (CT): Yam Koo just misses the 3HKO here, and doesn't have a 3-2 (though is close!). His MDUr is belo average, which Lucca 2HKOs.
Yam Koo vs. Rikku (FFX): Heal until Overdrive mk3.
Yam Koo vs. Amarant (FF9): Yam Koo def is a bit shaky, Amarant 2HKOs. Probably. Assuming I allow Wing Edges.
Yam Koo vs. Kesaran Pasaran (WA4): Well Yam Koo misses this OHKO, so we get three clones minimum (KP has a 3-2). The first blows up immediately, the second can move out of KP's hex and probably get two attacks off. One will hit.
Yam Koo vs. Geomancer (FFT): Needs one less hit to win. Might be two less. Yam Koo is faster, but it's not enough... and actually Counter Flood can be bad here, too.
Yam Koo vs. Guy (Lufia 2): Feels like he should outslug.
Yam Koo vs. Perceval (FE6): Melee counters make this easy.
Yam Koo vs. Mia (Lunar): Kneejerk Yam Koo is faster
Yam Koo vs. Peco (BoF3): Yeah Peco can... roughly offset Yam Koo's damage with regen + healing but not quite, and that's before the speed difference. That status ain't helping.
Yam Koo vs. Vivillion (Pokemon): Yam Koo just misses the 2HKO here, which lets Vivillion put him to sleep twice. Ouch.

Beruka 7-4
Finn 5-6
Yam Koo 2-9
« Last Edit: March 25, 2016, 05:59:27 AM by Dark Holy Elf »

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SnowFire

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Re: Proving Grounds Light/Middle: Child soldiers
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2016, 10:55:47 PM »
Dragonskin or whatever says that it immunes poison skills, and it gets Savage Blow, so I suppose I'm willing to hype it as a form of poison, sure.  It's certainly flavored as some sort of magic blast since it's on Malig Knight.

Beruka vs. Aelia (VP1) - High move saves the day, sure.  Also surprised Aelia gets 3HKO'd considering all those frail mages in the VP HP average and the fact that VP blocks poison without need for questionable all blocker hype, but sure, guess WTD helps push it over at worst.
Beruka vs. Lucca (CT) - Well if Lucca gets a weakness hitting WONDER SHOT for 999999 or something she'd totally win.
Beruka vs. Rikku (FFX) - Dat healing.  Potentially gets even worse if Beruka can't afford an Iron +2 backup anyway.
Beruka vs. Amarant (FF9) - Autolife shenanigans don't really work vs. counters.  otherwise I'll buy Elf hype.
Beruka vs. Kesaran Pasaran (WA4) - Genuine Silver hype time.  She'd probably be unable to KO after the debuff but hey.
Beruka vs. Geomancer (FFT)
Beruka vs. Guy (Lufia 2) - I'm down for Savage Blow increasing IP hype (pretty sure the HP-1 abilities some bosses have uber your IP) but per Random, seems pretty tough anyway.  If Guy has enough defense to be able to survive a counter he doesn't have Tough Hide healing, so that leaves OHKOing, which is hard.
Beruka vs. Perceval (FE6) - Wyvern Lord Beruka would have a lot better shot here, force a lance out of Perceval.
Beruka vs. Mia (Lunar) - Huh, from the stat topic, I think 3x Flame Bombs deal .98 PCHP damage to Beruka's .97 MDur...  oh but right, she's on the Wind Cane so is giving up some damage.  If only Mia could equip both canes at once.
Beruka vs. Richard (Jeanne d'Arc) - Richard has counters!  Hits the right defense!  Shame about Beruka winning the move speed tiebreak and getting the drop on him, though, equip a Hand Axe & 2HKO.  Although she wouldn't be 2HKOed anyway by Richard's double, so it's kinda moot.

Finn: .77 PDur, 1.18 MDur, 93% turn 1 speed -> 98% speed.  Deals .74 PCHP lightning damage.

Finn vs. Aelia (VP1)
Aelia deals...  .70 PCHP damage in 2 turns vs. Finn's .77 Pdur.  Ring the shame bells.
Finn vs. Lucca (CT)
Lucca's kind of a magic tank (at least if she equips for it).
Finn vs. Rikku (FFX)
Elemental resist nonsense.
Finn vs. Amarant (FF9)
Halve Lightning & Fire, Chakra.
Finn vs. Kesaran Pasaran (WA4)
MT damage vs. the clones.
Finn vs. Geomancer (FFT)
2HKOs first, surely, Aegis Shield for comedy.
Finn vs. Guy (Lufia 2)
2HKOs first, unless Guy has an insta-win IP here?
Finn vs. Perceval (FE6)
MT damage to avoid counters, and MT -> ST should be fatal, but Perceval 2HKOs first....  albeit barely.
Finn vs. Mia (Lunar)
More elemental resistance fun...  although this isn't entirely cut & dry, Finn's MDur is pretty darn good too, and he's faster when Mia is skipping the Wind Cane.  Could be argued.
Finn vs. Richard (Jeanne d'Arc)
Mage-spoiler, he'll transform & slaughter Finn.

Otome is...  quite similar to Finn.  Too similar, maybe.  0.76 PDurability, 1.06 MDurability, 0.95 effective speed.  Slightly worse damage but doesn't eat a damage hit to go outside Lightning with .62 PCHP in Ice/Lightning/Wind flavors, and it's also a bit spiky.  Sports Lightning / Curse resistance at least.

Otome vs. Aelia (VP1)
Aelia has 1.20 PCHP, so she'll actually survive if both of Otome's Dances are only 2 hits.  Odds not in her favor, though.
Otome vs. Lucca (CT)
Resists Sleep, doesn't matter thanks to 2x Flare.
Otome vs. Rikku (FFX)
If Rikku didn't have an OD to build toward but had infinite items, Otome would probably win off a string of 3x Dances backed by ludicrous MP, but suspect the OD comes before good luck on Dances.
Otome vs. Amarant (FF9)
2HKOs first...  although who knows, if Wing Edge hype is out, it might be close?
Otome vs. Kesaran Pasaran (WA4)
While the MT spells are a nasty damage hit, just spamming Dances is fine since their odds of getting more hits go up with more targets.  Curse resistance also arguably messes with the Explode counters, since gravity is Curse-elemental in DS2.
Otome vs. Geomancer (FFT)
Aegis Shield.
Otome vs. Guy (Lufia 2)
Slightly faster 2HKO.  Healing MIGHT run Otome out of MP before she gets lucky with Dances but I doubt it.
Otome vs. Perceval (FE6)
Dances are NOT what you want vs. counterattacks (they'll proc multiple reactions in-game IIRC), she's 2HKOed, and the flat MT spells are a big damage drop.
Otome vs. Mia (Lunar)
Mia doesn't catch Wind, and even if she did there's Holy Dance.
Otome vs. Richard (Jeanne d'Arc)


Yam Koo vs. Aelia (VP1)
Yam Koo vs. Lucca (CT)
Yam Koo vs. Rikku (FFX)
Yam Koo vs. Amarant (FF9)
Yam Koo vs. Kesaran Pasaran (WA4)
Yam Koo vs. Jeff (EB)
Yam Koo vs. Geomancer (FFT)
Yam Koo vs. Guy (Lufia 2)
Yam Koo vs. Perceval (FE6)
Yam Koo vs. Mia (Lunar)
Yam Koo vs. Peco (BoF3)
Yam Koo vs. Richard (Jeanne d'Arc)
Yam Koo vs. Vivillion (Pokemon)
« Last Edit: March 25, 2016, 12:33:38 AM by SnowFire »

Random Consonant

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Re: Proving Grounds Light/Middle: Child soldiers
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2016, 11:03:27 PM »
Well poison damage doesn't give IP gauge in-game so even if Savage Blow isn't strictly considered poison there's very little reason to believe it actually would since it's technically not part of an attack so I definitely agree with Elfboy on that point.  This is pretty much a straight up "do L2 characters start with IP gauge y/n" check.

Tide

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Re: Proving Grounds Light/Middle: Child soldiers
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2016, 11:59:49 PM »
Quote
I don't agree with some of the things Tide scales against bosses, so KP ends up as... 47% HP to me

To be fair, I don't think any scaling makes :) :) :)  Durable. Most late game Wild ARMS 4 are like that. Based on the way scale, he's a little better than Jeremy but still pretty bad!
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Proving Grounds Light/Middle: Child soldiers
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2016, 12:53:21 AM »
Well yeah 47% certainly is by no means durable. <_<

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