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Author Topic: Futurama 2020 Season 1, Week 4  (Read 2075 times)

Cmdr_King

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Futurama 2020 Season 1, Week 4
« on: June 01, 2020, 04:00:04 PM »
Godlike

Necrosaro (Dragon Quest IV) vs Persephone (Wild ARMs 5)
Xorn (Grandia III) vs Fou-lu (Breath of Fire IV)

Heavy

Edgar Roni Figaro (Final Fantasy VI) vs Hildagard Valentine (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)
Mother Brain (Phantasy Star II) vs Merurulince Rede Arls (Atelier Meruru: The Apprentice of Arland)

Middle

Sylvain Jose Gautier (Fire Emblem: Three Houses) vs Ursula (Final Fantasy IV: The After Years)
Hendrik (Dragon Quest XI: Echoes of an Elusive Age) vs Messam Elmdor (Final Fantasy Tactics)

Light

Chemist (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Kongol (Legend of Dragoon)
Chahn (Cosmic Star Heroine) vs Camille (Celestian Tales: Old North)
« Last Edit: June 01, 2020, 05:23:06 PM by Cmdr_King »
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Pyro

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Re: Futurama 2020 Season 1, Week 4
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2020, 04:19:28 PM »
Godlike

Necrosaro (Dragon Quest IV) vs Persephone (Wild ARMs 5): Formchain HP buffering?
Xorn (Grandia III) vs Fou-lu (Breath of Fire IV): Chain fight.

Heavy

Edgar Roni Figaro (Final Fantasy VI) vs Hildagard Valentine (Shadow Hearts: From the New World): Instant... Death?
Mother Brain (Phantasy Star II) vs Merurulince Rede Arls (Atelier Meruru: The Apprentice of Arland)

Middle

Sylvain Jose Gautier (Fire Emblem: Three Houses) vs Ursula (Final Fantasy IV: The After Years)
Hendrick (Dragon Quest XI: Echoes of an Elusive Age) vs Messam Elmdor (Final Fantasy Tactics): Why is Elmdor a Middle with the 100% matchwinning status?

Light

Chemist (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Kongol (Legend of Dragoon)
Chahn (Cosmic Star Heroine) vs Camille (Celestian Tales: Old North)

superaielman

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Re: Futurama 2020 Season 1, Week 4
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2020, 04:50:24 PM »
Godlike

Xorn (Grandia III) vs Fou-lu (Breath of Fire IV)- Wrong damage type; his big damage skills were physical.

Heavy

Edgar Roni Figaro (Final Fantasy VI) vs Hildagard Valentine (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)- Grand Slam.

Middle
Hendrick (Dragon Quest XI: Echoes of an Elusive Age) vs Messam Elmdor (Final Fantasy Tactics)-Leaning this way; I don't allow Blood Suck and Elmdor really does not like Hendrik immuning status and having so much durability. His ability to partly ignore Blade Grasp is a problem as well, even with how badly he's outsped.

Light

Chemist (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Kongol (Legend of Dragoon)- Quote of my message to Elf about this sad, sad fight:

I... so Kongol vs Chemist
I think Chemist needs an Assassin Danger proc to win the fight? And should get enough turns for it
(I have no problem allowing the Assassin dagger; if you lose to that trash you deserve it)
Has to hit the DS on a turn where Kongol isn't a dragoon but it isn't like Chemist is losing the fight before running out of potions

Kongol might have an argument to overwhelm first if he didn't 3HKO at base and wasn't getting 3-2ed constantly. As is? He loses to Assassin Dagger DS. Truly pathetic.
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SnowFire

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Re: Futurama 2020 Season 1, Week 4
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2020, 05:25:53 PM »
Xorn (Grandia III) vs Fou-lu (Breath of Fire IV)

Heavy

Edgar Roni Figaro (Final Fantasy VI) vs Hildagard Valentine (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)
The odds of Hilda getting unlucky with ramming into one of Edgar or Esuna's comprehensive-ish evade means that if you played this tournament out in DLMon, she's a lot less likely to make it to the finals, but oh well.

Middle

Hendrik (Dragon Quest XI: Echoes of an Elusive Age) vs Messam Elmdor (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Blood Suck is quite exotic and difficult to block in FFT, I don't think I'd see any DQ11 status resistance corresponding to it.  Hendrik does have a status immunity ability but is slower.  If you let Hendrik immune Blood Suck, he does have a move that definitely breaks Blade Grasp in Blind Man's Biff, although it doesn't do tons of damage...   would depend on how bad you see Elmdor's HP then.  (Also, insert usual "yes, Blood Suck is overrated in the DL, but less overrated than many other match-winning statuses that are No Big Deal in-game that people accept as being good in the DL." comment here.)

Light

Chemist (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Kongol (Legend of Dragoon)
Does Chemist even need assassin dagger?  While guns are shoddy damage, they are fixed damage, so they should ignore Kongol's good PDef.

Chahn (Cosmic Star Heroine) vs Camille (Celestian Tales: Old North)
Camille does have the ability to surge her damage by stacking up a ton of Stamina and inflicting Bleed first, but that's only if you give Camille like 7 turns to set up.  Surely Chahn can put things away by then.

Nephrite

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Re: Futurama 2020 Season 1, Week 4
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2020, 06:54:19 PM »
Godlike

Necrosaro (Dragon Quest IV) vs Persephone (Wild ARMs 5)
Xorn (Grandia III) vs Fou-lu (Breath of Fire IV)

Heavy

Edgar Roni Figaro (Final Fantasy VI) vs Hildagard Valentine (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)
Mother Brain (Phantasy Star II) vs Merurulince Rede Arls (Atelier Meruru: The Apprentice of Arland)

Middle

Sylvain Jose Gautier (Fire Emblem: Three Houses) vs Ursula (Final Fantasy IV: The After Years)
Hendrik (Dragon Quest XI: Echoes of an Elusive Age) vs Messam Elmdor (Final Fantasy Tactics)

Light

Chemist (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Kongol (Legend of Dragoon)
Chahn (Cosmic Star Heroine) vs Camille (Celestian Tales: Old North)

Random Consonant

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Re: Futurama 2020 Season 1, Week 4
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2020, 07:12:43 PM »
Godlike

Necrosaro (Dragon Quest IV) vs Persephone (Wild ARMs 5) - Probably correct.
Xorn (Grandia III) vs Fou-lu (Breath of Fire IV)

Heavy

Edgar Roni Figaro (Final Fantasy VI) vs Hildagard Valentine (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)

Middle

Sylvain Jose Gautier (Fire Emblem: Three Houses) vs Ursula (Final Fantasy IV: The After Years) - Doubles and status procs.
Hendrik (Dragon Quest XI: Echoes of an Elusive Age) vs Messam Elmdor (Final Fantasy Tactics) - No vote but Blood Suck hype deserves punting into the sun.

Light

Chemist (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Kongol (Legend of Dragoon) - Not that it matters in the slightest since Chemist shouldn't remotely be in danger of being overwhelmed either way but guns are still subject to Defense Up and Protect so calling them ITD is laffo.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2020, 09:12:10 PM by Random Consonant »

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Futurama 2020 Season 1, Week 4
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2020, 10:12:31 PM »
Godlike

Necrosaro (Dragon Quest IV) vs Persephone (Wild ARMs 5): Kneejerk mostly due to speed. And I'm certainly not giving Necrosaro any sort of "must be hit seven times to win" credit in the DL.
Xorn (Grandia III) vs Fou-lu (Breath of Fire IV): Being mostly physical is definitely Xorn's biggest flaw.

Heavy

Edgar Roni Figaro (Final Fantasy VI) vs Hildagard Valentine (Shadow Hearts: From the New World): I guess. Grand Slam is pretty egregious as far as status with in-game problems goes though.

Middle

Sylvain Jose Gautier (Fire Emblem: Three Houses) vs Ursula (Final Fantasy IV: The After Years): Probably has the oomph for this, not certain though. Sylvain is a bit unlucky in the "doubles and counters offset" thing doesn't apply when you can't counter with your DL damage (definitely a problem 3H has).

Light

Chemist (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Kongol (Legend of Dragoon): Chemist can win without Assassin Dagger, but only if you ban defend (as I do). Otherwise he'd never overcome Kongol's mighty 10% defend-regen. That said, knives aren't so widespread that I'm bothered by Chemist (or Ramza, or Thief, etc.) using a storebought statusweapon that gives the opponent 6-7 turns before killing.
Chahn (Cosmic Star Heroine) vs Camille (Celestian Tales: Old North): Since I've been looking over the CSH stat topic again... not fully sure how I feel about certain moves being in the average (things that stun allies or kill oneself), which might help Chahn's damage a bit. I'm also not sure how I feel about the cast's durability with desperation being a thing, but overall I feel like Chahn should have the offence for this?



Quote
Blood Suck is quite exotic and difficult to block in FFT ...  (Also, insert usual "yes, Blood Suck is overrated in the DL, but less overrated than many other match-winning statuses that are No Big Deal in-game that people accept as being good in the DL." comment here.)

Light

Chemist (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Kongol (Legend of Dragoon)
Does Chemist even need assassin dagger?  While guns are shoddy damage, they are fixed damage, so they should ignore Kongol's good PDef.

Blood Suck is not difficult to block in FFT at all, there's a storebought blocker that does it: 108 Gems, which is more notable for its ability to strengthen the user's elemental damage. Also, it's fine to allow Blood Suck by the letter of the law, but "less overrated"? No, it's pretty much the most overrated match-winning status imaginable: singletarget in a game with 5 PCs, doesn't actually stop the target from helping the player win the fight, blocked by a storebought accessory but it's telling that outside of solos, most challenge runs don't bother.

Guns are ITE, but they are not ITD. Defence Up and Protect reduce them, which clearly marks them as physical. (Zodiac also modifies them, as does Attack Up, Berserk, and Sleep/Frog/Charging on the target.)

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Maybe.

DjinnAndTonic

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Re: Futurama 2020 Season 1, Week 4
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2020, 11:39:33 PM »
Godlike

Necrosaro (Dragon Quest IV) vs Persephone (Wild ARMs 5)
Xorn (Grandia III) vs Fou-lu (Breath of Fire IV)

Heavy

Edgar Roni Figaro (Final Fantasy VI) vs Hildagard Valentine (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)
Mother Brain (Phantasy Star II) vs Merurulince Rede Arls (Atelier Meruru: The Apprentice of Arland)

Middle

Sylvain Jose Gautier (Fire Emblem: Three Houses) vs Ursula (Final Fantasy IV: The After Years)
Hendrik (Dragon Quest XI: Echoes of an Elusive Age) vs Messam Elmdor (Final Fantasy Tactics)

Light

Chemist (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Kongol (Legend of Dragoon)

DragonKnight Zero

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Re: Futurama 2020 Season 1, Week 4
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2020, 06:18:02 AM »
Mother Brain (Phantasy Star II) vs Merurulince Rede Arls (Atelier Meruru: The Apprentice of Arland)

  Something I can vote on.  Shocking.

   Mother Brain has about 210 raw Agility (it took buffing agility up to about 205 to occasionally go before it, hugs Colorscarf).  It only has two attacks: its special, about 75 on average MT damage that ignores defense (but not damage reduction like Deban), and its regular physical which will do less unless the character has really low defense.  The special is in practice perfectly accurate (it can miss but at an insanely low chance like maybe 1 in 1024).  It also has very high defense - 120 enemy defense is a lot, taking about 15% of what an enemy with 20 would take when I mathed it out one time.

  How effective that is depends entirely on where you see the speed and raw HP averages.  In game, it's a joke fight with Gires equipment and a source of Deban.  Anyone with enough HP to withstand two attacks from Mother Brain (one at full power, the second at half) can infinitely heal for more than it can do and it's become a matter of time to wear it down.  In a duel, Mother Brain depends on its insane speed and piercing damage to overwhelm the opponent.

  Now for Meruru.  Royal Patron is relevant here, as its damage reduction does work on Mother Brain's defense ignoring special.  Meruru also has a decent HP score.  Another thing she has going for her is faster recovery times from item usage so despite a large speed difference in raw numbers, that only matters before Meruru's first turn in practice after which she keeps up well enough.  Any item granting HP regen will reduce the pressure from Mother Brain's assault.  All it takes is one turn Meruru is free to use a Magical Ankh to boost her speed and max HP after which it's simply a matter of healing when needed and attacking otherwise.

  Mother Brain's massive defense laughs at non-elemental damage.  However, elemental damage in Ateleir is treated as a different attack type and defended against differently.  Bomb Ice, Peacemaker, and Spirit Stone all deal elemental damage so Meruru has plenty of offense options.  Puni Bomb pierces defense as yet another option to humiliate Mother Brain.  Mother Brain lacks elemental defense and will fall to a pink haired girly-girl.

(insert smartass wisecrack about Alchemy > Technology)

Cmdr_King

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Re: Futurama 2020 Season 1, Week 4
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2020, 12:31:31 AM »
Godlike

Necrosaro (Dragon Quest IV) vs Persephone (Wild ARMs 5)
Xorn (Grandia III) vs Fou-lu (Breath of Fire IV)- Trusting the elfmath

Heavy

Edgar Roni Figaro (Final Fantasy VI) vs Hildagard Valentine (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)
Mother Brain (Phantasy Star II) vs Merurulince Rede Arls (Atelier Meruru: The Apprentice of Arland)- no vote.

Middle

Sylvain Jose Gautier (Fire Emblem: Three Houses) vs Ursula (Final Fantasy IV: The After Years)
Hendrik (Dragon Quest XI: Echoes of an Elusive Age) vs Messam Elmdor (Final Fantasy Tactics)- No vote.

Light

Chemist (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Kongol (Legend of Dragoon)- Yeah I can't see Kongol breaking through via damage, even allowing that it takes Chemist like 40 turns to kill him.
Chahn (Cosmic Star Heroine) vs Camille (Celestian Tales: Old North)- No vote.
CK: She is the female you
Snow: Speaking of Sluts!

<NotMiki> I mean, we're talking life vs. liberty, with the pursuit of happiness providing color commentary.

SnowFire

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Re: Futurama 2020 Season 1, Week 4
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2020, 12:40:24 AM »
Chemist: Now that I think about it, I think Chemist vs. Kongol has happened before, this feels vaguely familiar.  Probably some decade-ago topic.  Anyway, I never did create the dreaded Attack-UP Gunner, and Defense-UP enemies are pretty rare in vanilla (although I feel like I shoulda remembered this from LFT Knights?), so I thought guns were Zodiac-only adjustment.  Ah well, learned that lesson again.  I'd surely allow Defend but Assassin Dagger seems more hypable then Chemist running out of cash.

Blood Suck: It's genuinely cool that FFT mastery can be used to make Blood Suck counterproductive!  I'm just saying that ScrubFire has seen a Game Over screen to both Elmdor & Zalbag before which instantly puts Blood Suck among the highest tiers of respect for me, unlike all sorts of status that gets hyped in the DL.  (Okay, granted, for Elmdor this is also partially the fault of screwing around trying to steal his stuff which makes that fight way way harder, but still.)  Game also doesn't let you go to a shop in the middle to grab some more 108 Gems.  Anyway, maybe I should have been more clear - yes, there's a storebought blocker, but it's not something you'd necessarily have on by default (incidental status blocking) and it's difficult to heal (very well might not know the Holy Water ability, just Chemist has it).  Basically, there's bosses with stuff like a perfect accuracy ST paralysis that if they spammed it would just tread water by the time they paralyzed everyone due to natural durations, but Blood Suck to its credit could at least hope to win this way if the victims decided to Blood Suck each other rather than the boss (although this is unlikely if you know what you're doing, sure).

Chahn: There's definitely some CSH characters I'd be willing to give a "friendly" damage average to that throws out some of the egregious DL-only nonsense (Lauren messing with her own team, etc.) but Chahn is probably not one of them, since I can't imagine ever setting her big burst doomy damage in-game.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Futurama 2020 Season 1, Week 4
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2020, 01:06:01 AM »
Chahn's big damage move is Orbital Assault and I absolutely set that in-game. I'm not sure what you find egregious about it, unless you hate burst moves, but in that case I'll just note that over half the cast is using burst moves for their damage. Also as a data point, I found burst moves incredibly useful personally, and even if you didn't use them yourself it shouldn't be hard to imagine using them.

The characters whose listed damage averages I consider to be DL-questionable are Psybe (inflicts stun on allies), Lauren (steals hypers from her allies... though damage is pretty bad anyway), and Clarke (relies on killing himself, though this one is a bit less egregious the way CSH fights work).

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Maybe.

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Futurama 2020 Season 1, Week 4
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2020, 03:55:51 AM »
Heavy
Edgar Roni Figaro (Final Fantasy VI) vs Hildagard Valentine (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)- *Hypes Hilda having like turn 4 ID*. Come to the dark side.
...into the nightfall.

Cmdr_King

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Re: Futurama 2020 Season 1, Week 4
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2020, 03:00:28 PM »
Godlike

Necrosaro (Dragon Quest IV)- ii vs Persephone (Wild ARMs 5)- iii
Xorn (Grandia III) vs Fou-lu (Breath of Fire IV)- iiiiiiii

Heavy

Edgar Roni Figaro (Final Fantasy VI)- i vs Hildagard Valentine (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)- iiiiiiii
Mother Brain (Phantasy Star II) vs Merurulince Rede Arls (Atelier Meruru: The Apprentice of Arland)- ii

Middle

Sylvain Jose Gautier (Fire Emblem: Three Houses) vs Ursula (Final Fantasy IV: The After Years)- iiii
Hendrik (Dragon Quest XI: Echoes of an Elusive Age)- ii vs Messam Elmdor (Final Fantasy Tactics)- iii

Light

Chemist (Final Fantasy Tactics)- iiiiiiii vs Kongol (Legend of Dragoon)
Chahn (Cosmic Star Heroine)- iii vs Camille (Celestian Tales: Old North)
CK: She is the female you
Snow: Speaking of Sluts!

<NotMiki> I mean, we're talking life vs. liberty, with the pursuit of happiness providing color commentary.