Author Topic: Futurama 2020 Season 2, Week 1  (Read 2946 times)

Cmdr_King

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Futurama 2020 Season 2, Week 1
« on: October 26, 2020, 12:33:26 AM »
 Godlike

Repede (Tales of Vesperia) vs Lavos (Chrono Trigger)
Edelgard von Hresvelg (Fire Emblem: Three Houses) vs Chris Lightfellow (Suikoden III)
Baramos (Dragon Quest III) vs Luca Blight (Suikoden II)
Cless Albane (Tales of Phantasia) vs Jowy Atreides (Suikoden II)


Heavy

Rolf Landale (Phantasy Star II) vs Angelo (Dragon Quest VIII)
Claude von Riegen (Fire Emblem: Three Houses) vs  Fujin (Final Fantasy VIII)
Ryuji Sakamoto (Persona 5) vs Hugo (Suikoden III)
Elize Lutus (Tales of Xillia) vs Maya Schroedinger (Wild ARMs 3)


Middle

Cyrus Albright (Octopath Traveler) vs Messam Elmdore (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Lysithea von Ordelia (Fire Emblem: Three Houses) vs Clarine (Fire Emblem: Sealed Sword)
Xander (Fire Emblem Fates) vs Nergal (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword)
Rabbid Mario (Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle) vs Kresnik Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4)


Light

Tin Man (The Wizard of Oz: Beyond the Yellow Brick Road) vs Sinspawn Echuilles (Final Fantasy X)
Rebecca Streisand (Wild ARMs 5) vs Labyrinthia Wordsworth (Wild ARMs XF)
Luigi (Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle) vs Adray Lasbard (Star Ocean Till the End of Time)
Primrose Azelhart (Octopath Traveler) vs Lucia (Shadow Hearts Covenant)

And a reminder, still taking suggestions for games to data mine!  I'll probably start getting numbers for them next week so they're probably tabulated in time for the end of the season.
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Random Consonant

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Re: Futurama 2020 Season 2, Week 1
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2020, 03:10:21 AM »
Godlike

Repede (Tales of Vesperia) vs Lavos (Chrono Trigger) - Abstain on Lavos.
Edelgard von Hresvelg (Fire Emblem: Three Houses) vs Chris Lightfellow (Suikoden III) - Well at least 3H doesn't have WTD to saddle Edie with.  Anyways, Chris isn't slow so Edie can't employ Brave Axe doubles here and Raging Storm+Silver Axe double isn't even half Chris's pdur, both four-round each other by listed figures but Chris has accuracy/evasion/healing in her favor here.
Cless Albane (Tales of Phantasia) vs Jowy Atreides (Suikoden II) - OHKO


Heavy

Ryuji Sakamoto (Persona 5) vs Hugo (Suikoden III) - Really don't think Skull's gameplan works that well against Hugo's evade.


Middle

Lysithea von Ordelia (Fire Emblem: Three Houses) vs Clarine (Fire Emblem: Sealed Sword) - The evasion alone gives Lysithea fits, never mind the fact that she can't exploit Clarine's bad pdur worth a damn anyways.
Xander (Fire Emblem Fates) vs Nergal (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword) - Park in front of stupid immobile boss strats steals a win.


Light

Tin Man (The Wizard of Oz: Beyond the Yellow Brick Road) vs Sinspawn Echuilles (Final Fantasy X) - Probably right. e: or not
Rebecca Streisand (Wild ARMs 5) vs Labyrinthia Wordsworth (Wild ARMs XF) - Either she barely gets the 2HKO or she barely misses it and gets 2HKO'd.  I think the former is more in line with how I'm inclined to view WA5 as a cast.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2020, 06:30:05 AM by Random Consonant »

Pyro

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Re: Futurama 2020 Season 2, Week 1
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2020, 03:37:55 AM »
Godlike

Repede (Tales of Vesperia) vs Lavos (Chrono Trigger): Repede is absolutely brutal and I don't know what anyone is supposed to do.
Edelgard von Hresvelg (Fire Emblem: Three Houses) vs Chris Lightfellow (Suikoden III): This looks fun.
Baramos (Dragon Quest III) vs Luca Blight (Suikoden II)
Cless Albane (Tales of Phantasia) vs Jowy Atreides (Suikoden II): If Hungry Fiend is 'void' elemental like Meteor Storm/other stuff that would be a problem. I don't think it is?


Heavy

Rolf Landale (Phantasy Star II) vs Angelo (Dragon Quest VIII):  Confusion catches Rolf and that's that.
Claude von Riegen (Fire Emblem: Three Houses) vs  Fujin (Final Fantasy VIII)
Ryuji Sakamoto (Persona 5) vs Hugo (Suikoden III)
Elize Lutus (Tales of Xillia) vs Maya Schroedinger (Wild ARMs 3): Elize can probably just grit her teeth, buff up with auto-ressurection, and take a few Calamity Janes while dropping Teepo and winning via a damage race. Or maybe Auto-Medicine renders that not needed, but I don't have to think about that.


Middle

Cyrus Albright (Octopath Traveler) vs Messam Elmdore (Final Fantasy Tactics): Cyrus was below average speed so I think Elmdor (~10.5 speed?) probably goes first because although this was after Excalibur it was before Thieve's Hats?)
Lysithea von Ordelia (Fire Emblem: Three Houses) vs Clarine (Fire Emblem: Sealed Sword)
Xander (Fire Emblem Fates) vs Nergal (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword)
Rabbid Mario (Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle) vs Kresnik Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4)


Light

Tin Man (The Wizard of Oz: Beyond the Yellow Brick Road) vs Sinspawn Echuilles (Final Fantasy X): I'll wait on this.
Rebecca Streisand (Wild ARMs 5) vs Labyrinthia Wordsworth (Wild ARMs XF): 2HKOs through Weapon Guard?
Luigi (Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle) vs Adray Lasbard (Star Ocean Till the End of Time)
Primrose Azelhart (Octopath Traveler) vs Lucia (Shadow Hearts Covenant): Allure with a decently powerful unit, I think.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2020, 03:54:36 PM by Pyro »

SnowFire

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Re: Futurama 2020 Season 2, Week 1
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2020, 04:09:45 AM »
Edelgard von Hresvelg (Fire Emblem: Three Houses) vs Chris Lightfellow (Suikoden III)
While Chris's defense is pretty nutty and spoils Brave Axe well.  I'm inclined to allow the universal combat arts, so the question is does Helm Splitter hit weakness here?!  Spamming Silver Axe+ Helm Splitter should be a heal lock with the threat of Raging Storm -> another Helm Splitter if it does.  (Although I guess there are scenes where Chris is on a horse, so maybe she's actually a dismounted cavalier not an armor knight!!1!)
Baramos (Dragon Quest III) vs Luca Blight (Suikoden II)
I'm a DQ3 NES voter.  Checking, Baramos has 900 HP in the NES version, but very good regeneration (~100 HP a round).  The DQ3 NES topic has the endgame damage average being ~130 excluding Goof-Off; call that 115 for a little earlier in the game, and you have Baramos at 0.8 PCHP or so "naively".  That's not really enough even with good defenses.


Heavy

Rolf Landale (Phantasy Star II) vs Angelo (Dragon Quest VIII)
No vote, but surely some nasty status.
Claude von Riegen (Fire Emblem: Three Houses) vs  Fujin (Final Fantasy VIII)
I'm not sure where I see Fujin's HP, but it's way south of Fallen Star + Failnaught counterattack + Brave Bow attack.  And probably only needs to be south of all that + another Brave Bow hit & counter.
Ryuji Sakamoto (Persona 5) vs Hugo (Suikoden III)
So is "Wind of Sleep" (which deals no damage, just a status effect) Wind in Persona-ese, or Ailment?  Or both?  Ryuji has Evade Wind but also a Wind Weakness, so once this hits he's in trouble.  I'm not sure I even want to consider gun status anymore, but even if I did I'd let Yellow Scarf mess with Shock strategies.  I'm not sure Ryuji is happy at all, since his damage is killing himself and dealing with Hugo's good evasion and he needs a OHKO I don't think he has thanks to Hugo having healing and it's awful.
Elize Lutus (Tales of Xillia) vs Maya Schroedinger (Wild ARMs 3)
I can technically vote this, but ????.

Middle

Cyrus Albright (Octopath Traveler) vs Messam Elmdore (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Obligatory boo, hiss goes here.  Blood Suck.

Lysithea von Ordelia (Fire Emblem: Three Houses) vs Clarine (Fire Emblem: Sealed Sword)
What a wacky match.

Lysithea is +10 Avg. Speed or so when unencumbered but realistically +5-6 Avg. Spd, Clarine is +6 Avg. Spd (and she speed-caps by L15, so it doesn't actually matter whether you use her L15 or L20 figures).  So no doubling hype (aside from with an Iron Sword or something weird).  Anyway, kneejerk is that Clarine only barely breaks Lysithea's Renewal when not getting Thunder critz, so Lysithea wins, right?  But Lysithea is hitting the wrong defensive stat and Levin Sword+ (for counter-attacks) is more than 20 Hit beneath average vs. Clarine's great dodge rate, so she's stuck spamming Soulblade if she wants to stand a chance of hitting.  0.37 PCHP damage vs. 1.38 MDur = 4 Soulblades need to land (maaaaybe 3 if Crest of Gloucster kicks in twice), which means attempting ~8-10 or so Soublades, so breaking an entire Silver Sword+ on this fight.  I don't think this is viable because it means triggering Clarine's counters and eventually dying to Clarine damage when she can both attack and counter.  Okay, so can Lysithea just go for the total turtle strat of only poking once every 20 turns or so then, right, while occasionally landing a Levin Sword+ counterattack?  I...  think that when Lys is not triggering counters, Clarine will not be able to slowly overcome Lysithea's regen.  Lysithea packs 0.8 MDur (and regens 0.16 Mdur a round), and the lower-leveled no-Elfire version of Clarine deals 0.20 a round - but when taking into account Lysithea's evade, Clarine isn't really winning.  That said.  Clarine will level-up faster than Lysithea will, and maybe that by the time she hits L20 + C-Rank (her tomes are a lot cheaper than Levin Sword+ / Silver Sword+, too), she can overwhelm Lysithea's regen then off better damage and Hit?  Yes, we are talking about a match so stalled out that "level-up a lot" is a legitimate strategy.  Or alternatively "break Lysithea's invisible battalion" if we presume that everybody has hidden battalions and eat a stat cost when they retreat despite not being rewarded for them in the stat topic.

Anyway, there you have it - either Lysithea attacks once every 30 turns while regen'ing a lot to slooowly and inaccurately chip her way to victory, or Clarine levels-up and eventually uses Thunder critz & level-ups to smash through Lysithea.

EDIT: Inclined to buy Clarine, think the balance of interps is headed her way - more skill levels, or punishing Renewal by having some sort of Battalion retreat mechanic for very slow fights, all helps spoil a "do nothing with a Levin Sword+ equipped" strategy for Lysithea, and I think Lysithea conclusively loses if she just YOLO spams Soulblade into counterattacks.

Xander (Fire Emblem Fates) vs Nergal (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword)
This is one of those matches where Xander wants form-choice and regrets being changed from a high-Res Paladin to a Great Knight.  Humiliation.  (Although...  since Tomes are Red in Fates...  maybe Lance Xander has a plan to stand next to Nergal, barely not get OHKO'd thanks to blue color advantage, then strike back for a 2HKO?  Maybe?)
EDIT: Per Random, Chivalry should tip this to Xander definitely surviving then 2HKO'ing back, using a Lance as well if need be for the first hit.

Light

Primrose Azelhart (Octopath Traveler) vs Lucia (Shadow Hearts Covenant)
Hmm, Lucia's dark resist does make this interesting.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2020, 04:44:43 PM by SnowFire »

Random Consonant

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Re: Futurama 2020 Season 2, Week 1
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2020, 04:38:38 AM »
Quote
So is "Wind of Sleep" (which deals no damage, just a status effect) Wind in Persona-ese, or Ailment?  Or both?  Ryuji has Evade Wind but also a Wind Weakness, so once this hits he's in trouble.

Well there's a very easy analogue here, namely Hama/Mudo skills, so it should by all rights ruin his day.  Apart from the bit where P5 has sleep blocking as an option so it's actually not a factor here.  (Not that it matters in the slightest, evade-subject physicals are such a bad idea against Hugo normally and Ryuji's the most inaccurate member of the cast so gun status hype is worthless here even if you, as I do, don't see Yellow Scarves blocking Shock, he's relying on Ziodyne to inflict Shock here which is just awful.)

Quote
This is one of those matches where Xander wants form-choice and regrets being changed from a high-Res Paladin to a Great Knight.  Humiliation.  (Although...  since Tomes are Red in Fates...  maybe Lance Xander has a plan to stand next to Nergal, barely not get OHKO'd thanks to blue color advantage, then strike back for a 2HKO?  Maybe?)

Ok I know you do the average of two averages thing but you do realize that Birthright's higher RES average gets offset by its lower HP average, and since Xander has to use parking strats to win anyways that means Nergal is swinging at full HP and should in no way be OHKOing anyways because of Chivalry, yes?
« Last Edit: October 26, 2020, 04:55:06 AM by Random Consonant »

SnowFire

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Re: Futurama 2020 Season 2, Week 1
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2020, 05:01:32 AM »
Yeah, agree it's a rough matchup for Ryuji.  Based off my old notes in this post  ( http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=6888.msg196803#msg196803 ), Sleep is blockable but only with a very expensive storebought Gem that only refreshes once a month in the store, when the stat topic currently assumes no accessories.  So if Ryuji really needs the Sleep blocker, then the rest of the cast can do things like buy Auto-Tarukaja accessories (for those who didn't have that already) to drive him even deeper into the hole.  Not sure if Royal changed this, although I haven't played Royal anyway.

EDIT: Re your other edit- I just forgot about Chivalry.  Yeah, that'd probably help Xander survive then 2HKO, I agree.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2020, 05:06:54 AM by SnowFire »

Random Consonant

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Re: Futurama 2020 Season 2, Week 1
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2020, 05:13:24 AM »
Oh I forgot that some of the shops in P5 were dumb, not that it matters anyways as I strongly disagree with the stat topic assuming no accesories (act shocked) and you say I'd surely see it driving out the Auto-Taru accessory, just pointing out how horrible even the best case for Skull here is.

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Futurama 2020 Season 2, Week 1
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2020, 04:05:00 PM »
Edelgard von Hresvelg (Fire Emblem: Three Houses) vs Chris Lightfellow (Suikoden III) - I even allow two Raging Storms per fight, but it honestly doesn't really matter? Edie does risk threatening a heal-lock when she manages to connect two swings, but Chris' evade is a tall mountain to climb here.
Cress Albane (Tales of Phantasia) vs Jowy Atreides (Suikoden II) - Jowy does like that his damage is non-elemental instead of dark in this fight (he curses it more often than not in the DL because Hungry Fiend would be absurd).

Rolf Landale (Phantasy Star II) vs Angelo (Dragon Quest VIII) - I think Rolf is faster (DEFINITELY is with any degree of level scaling, he's only slower than Shir when they're at equal levels or so? And shit, the entire cast outside Rudo and Amy deserves a level penalty and Shir herself earns it the hardest. Also, no Megid in the averages also means no Nazan for Shir (she learns it only one level lower than Rolf does and she joins at a gigantic XP disadvantage), which lowers the damage average... considerably. So, Rolf 2HKOs Angelo with his physical AND his magic and... I'm really struggling to see how he deals with this? Yeah, I think a double turn is going to happen before a dodge and I think Angelo's turn two at best ID feels like a losing proposition here.
Claude von Riegan (Fire Emblem: Three Houses) vs  Fujin (Final Fantasy VIII) - Fujin is kinda slow and rather physically fragile. To me, Claude one-rounds and doesn't even have to.
Ryuji Sakamoto (Persona 5) vs Hugo (Suikoden III) - Funeral Wind rams into Wind Evade to me and it doesn't even remotely matter. Ryuji against Hugo-level evade is all kinds of uguu.

Cyrus Albright (Octopath Traveler) vs Mesdoram Elmdor (Final Fantasy Tactics) - So, Elmdor 2HKOs Cyrus with his physical through the regen, methinks, so his best hope is trying to blitz with a single BP's worth of powering up while damage-twinked. So... do I see Elmdor OHKOed by 46% PC HP? I... man, I want to say I do.
Lysithea von Ordelia (Fire Emblem: Three Houses) vs Clarine (Fire Emblem: Sealed Sword) - I take Clarine at the higher levels and Elfire, so I don't even think this is particularly close. She actually breaks through Lysithea's regen consistently enough and Lys has serious, serious issues breaking through that evade, especially if she wants to counter (She has like 10% hit against Clari with Levin Sword or something?). I considered the hypothesis of Warlock/Gremory Lysithea slinging Luna, but uh then she very likely gets doubled because tomes weigh a ton and it's still pretty shoddy damage due to Braves skewing the average as hard as they do.

Tin Man (The Wizard of Oz: Beyond the Yellow Brick Road) vs Sinspawn Echuilles (Final Fantasy X) - Oh sheesh, it's not melee immunity, then.
Primrose Azelhart (Octopath Traveler) vs Lucia (Shadow Hearts Covenant) - I'm pretty sure Primrose scrapes by on average -if- you allow her the Allure help off her command. If you don't, she's kinda screwed.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2020, 01:17:00 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
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[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Futurama 2020 Season 2, Week 1
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2020, 05:10:14 PM »
Godlike

Repede (Tales of Vesperia) vs Lavos (Chrono Trigger)
Cless Albane (Tales of Phantasia) vs Jowy Atreides (Suikoden II)


Heavy
Rolf Landale (Phantasy Star II) vs Angelo (Dragon Quest VIII)- Overrated Angelo's status, so Rolf
Ryuji Sakamoto (Persona 5) vs Hugo (Suikoden III)- Evade makes this clear (while I still need to beat P5, solid enough here)

Middle
Cyrus Albright (Octopath Traveler) vs Messam Elmdore (Final Fantasy Tactics)- Elmdore has 0.37 PC HP to me

Light
Tin Man (The Wizard of Oz: Beyond the Yellow Brick Road) vs Sinspawn Echuilles (Final Fantasy X)- So this Sinspawn is anti-melee I guess? Edit: Nope, so Tin Man takes this.
Rebecca Streisand (Wild ARMs 5)vs Labyrinthia Wordsworth (Wild ARMs XF)- Rebecca almost fails to 2HKO (she would fail if Medium stat boosts were included), but does manage to...uh I guess Labby could hit her with Aim Down and that may work...sigh.
Primrose Azelhart (Octopath Traveler) vs Lucia (Shadow Hearts Covenant)- Lucia Rages->Attack->Attack to kill. Primrose can't 2HKO, Lucia's Dark resist is extra here.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2020, 06:27:42 AM by Dhyerwolf »
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Futurama 2020 Season 2, Week 1
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2020, 01:05:01 AM »
Echuilles doesn't spoil melee. He is somewhat anti-ST, though, because he summons two sinscales as a free action every turn and that's the only way he gets to decent offence, so anyone with MT just sweeps them up.

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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Futurama 2020 Season 2, Week 1
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2020, 03:00:30 AM »
 Godlike

Repede (Tales of Vesperia) vs Lavos (Chrono Trigger): Honestly, I think Repede winning this comes across as kind of silly (as does Repede in general, tbh). The amount of time he'd need to kill Lavos just feels mind-boggling with how often Lavos will revive the Centre Bit, that's basically asking for some sort of execution fail. But... meh, not voting.

Edelgard von Hresvelg (Fire Emblem: Three Houses) vs Chris Lightfellow (Suikoden III): You really don't want to try to kill Chris with evadable physicals. Edie probably wants you to allow a full Aymr for this.

Heavy

Claude von Riegen (Fire Emblem: Three Houses) vs  Fujin (Final Fantasy VIII): Not 100% comfortable with how I see Fujin, but this feels more right overall.

Middle

Cyrus Albright (Octopath Traveler) vs Mesdoram Elmdor (Final Fantasy Tactics): Oh like hell I know where I see Elmdor's HP. No.
Lysithea von Ordelia (Fire Emblem: Three Houses) vs Clarine (Fire Emblem: Sealed Sword): Snowfire's breakdown seems excellent. I'm inclined to give Clarine more level/weapon exp respect to start with, so I do find myself favouring Clarine, but it is close!
Xander (Fire Emblem Fates) vs Nergal (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword): Seems straightforward? Both 2HKO each other (well, assuming Nergal is between 50% and 98% pdur or so), neither doubles, so whoever is smart enough to attack second wins. Match goes to the PC.
Rabbid Mario (Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle) vs Kresnik Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4): Should get a chain of stone before Kresnik can kill him, I would think.


Light

Tin Man (The Wizard of Oz: Beyond the Yellow Brick Road) vs Sinspawn Echuilles (Final Fantasy X): So uh Tin Man has MT with Soul Break and is weak to ice, not water (very different elements in FFX). Echuilles can only 7HKO him. Tin Man gets five turns before then, which is surely enough... the later Soul Breaks HURT.
Rebecca Streisand (Wild ARMs 5) vs Labyrinthia Wordsworth (Wild ARMs XF): Rebecca 2HKOs.
Luigi (Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle) vs Adray Lasbard (Star Ocean Till the End of Time): Complete slaughter if Adray is seen as blocking ink (it's a bit paralysis-like?). Even if not... Adray has his own status, and Luigi damage is just so bad when Steely Stare isn't in the picture.
Primrose Azelhart (Octopath Traveler) vs Lucia (Shadow Hearts Covenant): Probably, I don't think I consider Allure. Sadness.

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superaielman

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Re: Futurama 2020 Season 2, Week 1
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2020, 01:09:48 AM »
Godlike



Repede (Tales of Vesperia) vs Lavos (Chrono Trigger)- Yeah sure. Technically Repede is making progress with each attack.
Baramos (Dragon Quest III) vs Luca Blight (Suikoden II)- Non remake vs Luca is pretty close. 900 HP is respectable (Stat topic is overleveled by at 7-8 levels to start with; you fight Baramos in the 20's). 100 defense is really good and 70% fire reduction massively slows down Luca's offense. Remake Baramos has 2500 HP, 200 physical defense and doubles his attacks more (up to 50% from 33%). Luca has trouble breaking the regen, let alone winning the slugfest.   3r Baramos is going to kick the living shit out of every single person in this half of Godlike besides maybe Chris (And even she probably doesn't have enough damage and healing for this). He is a nasty slugger.

Heavy

Rolf Landale (Phantasy Star II)] vs Angelo (Dragon Quest VIII)- Faster 2HKO. Nothing Angelo can do turn one is going to tip the fight so he is heal locked.


Middle

Cyrus Albright (Octopath Traveler) vs Messam Elmdore (Final Fantasy Tactics)- Kneejerk. May win before Cyrus gets a turn, may survive a Cyrus turn.
Rabbid Mario (Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle) vs Kresnik Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4)- Fuck off Kresnik. The status should be enough offhand.


Light

Luigi (Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle) vs Adray Lasbard (Star Ocean Till the End of Time)- Yeah, I agree largely with what Elf said.
Primrose Azelhart (Octopath Traveler) vs Lucia (Shadow Hearts Covenant)- Running into dark resist again Primrose? Really?
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Pyro

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Re: Futurama 2020 Season 2, Week 1
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2020, 09:26:42 PM »
Rolf Landale (Phantasy Star II)] vs Angelo (Dragon Quest VIII)- Faster 2HKO. Nothing Angelo can do turn one is going to tip the fight so he is heal locked.

Kafuddle is an accurate confusion (which prevents attacks against Angelo) and Rolf may not have an answer to it?
« Last Edit: November 01, 2020, 02:08:43 AM by Pyro »

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Re: Futurama 2020 Season 2, Week 1
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2020, 12:31:35 PM »
Rolf Landale (Phantasy Star II)] vs Angelo (Dragon Quest VIII)- Faster 2HKO. Nothing Angelo can do turn one is going to tip the fight so he is heal locked.

Kafuddle is an accurate confusion (which prevents attacks against Angelo) and Rolf may not have an answer to it?

Kafuddle isn't an easy road to a guaranteed win even when it connects, is the main problem. If it connects and Rolf physicals Angelo next turn, he still dies. If he doesn't, now Angelo likely has to heal (because he doesn't want to lose instantly) and ONLY then he can try to connect his ID (nothing else gets him a win faster), which takes on average two more turns at least. And every time the dice roll on Confuse says Rolf physicals Angelo, he has to stop and heal again lest he wants to risk dying -once more-, and pending duration, Angelo may have to even roll Kafuddle AGAIN. It's not a match Angelo can't win, but, the way the dices roll throughout, yeah, I think it's a lot of pressure. If Angelo wasn't the slower dueller in this fight, it'd roll differently, but as is, he just starts in a bad position to get his own ball rolling.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Pyro

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Re: Futurama 2020 Season 2, Week 1
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2020, 01:51:00 PM »
DQ8 Confuse doesn't let the enemy attack you, they can attack other enemies, but not the PCs.

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Re: Futurama 2020 Season 2, Week 1
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2020, 04:07:04 PM »
What is DQ8 confuse's duration? I'm playing 11 right now and the duration there is definitely not good.

It's worth noting that Kafuddle isn't on Angelo's current build in the stat topic, and I would not allow him to respec for individual fights since that's not possible in-game. So the question is, should his default build be changed to include it? It requires 66 points (nearly half his total) invested in an otherwise nearly worthless skill tree. To afford that, he could give up a bunch of staff, losing at Caduceus (he has better healing), Kathwack (he has other instant death), and Oomph. Oomph is a reasonably big deal because it's how he breaks stalls against other healers... at least ones immune to status, since all his status options help him out there otherwise. Also helps him break past boss limits. But turn 1 status is a big deal so it may well be worth it. IMO it really depends on the duration.

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Re: Futurama 2020 Season 2, Week 1
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2020, 09:26:29 PM »
It seems to eat a minimum of 5 turns off the enemy (should be irrespective of speed).

It may be worth less respect if you count the chance an enemy might flee against Angelo, although the 'attack other enemies' feature is discarded in a duel too.

As far as SP goes, the DS version is way nicer to Angelo and he can afford 100 Charisma/staves (infinite healing!) And a few points in swords for Flame Slash.

The original should probably not bother with so many sword points? Flame Slash is his best combo with Oomph, being actually a 1.3x mult anyways (2.6x after oomph), and he might be able to swing pearly gates (for damage he can tense up) and kathwack? Not sure how that all falls out.

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Re: Futurama 2020 Season 2, Week 1
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2020, 10:32:14 PM »
Godlike

Repede (Tales of Vesperia) vs Lavos (Chrono Trigger)
Edelgard von Hresvelg (Fire Emblem: Three Houses) vs Chris Lightfellow (Suikoden III)
Baramos (Dragon Quest III) vs Luca Blight (Suikoden II)- Looking at the topic... this feels close and I could be misreading things a bit, but I feel like Luca's steadier damage and better speed give him enough of an edge.
Cless Albane (Tales of Phantasia) vs Jowy Atreides (Suikoden II)


Heavy

Rolf Landale (Phantasy Star II) vs Angelo (Dragon Quest VIII)- No vote.
Claude von Riegen (Fire Emblem: Three Houses) vs Fujin (Final Fantasy VIII)
Ryuji Sakamoto (Persona 5) vs Hugo (Suikoden III)- No vote.
Elize Lutus (Tales of Xillia) vs Maya Schroedinger (Wild ARMs 3)- No vote.


Middle

Cyrus Albright (Octopath Traveler) vs Messam Elmdore (Final Fantasy Tactics)- I dunno probably.  Elmdore is faster mostly.
Lysithea von Ordelia (Fire Emblem: Three Houses) vs Clarine (Fire Emblem: Sealed Sword)
Xander (Fire Emblem Fates) vs Nergal (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword)
Rabbid Mario (Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle) vs Kresnik Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4)- No vote.


Light

Tin Man (The Wizard of Oz: Beyond the Yellow Brick Road) vs Sinspawn Echuilles (Final Fantasy X)
Rebecca Streisand (Wild ARMs 5) vs Labyrinthia Wordsworth (Wild ARMs XF)
Luigi (Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle) vs Adray Lasbard (Star Ocean Till the End of Time)- No vote.
Primrose Azelhart (Octopath Traveler) vs Lucia (Shadow Hearts Covenant)
CK: She is the female you
Snow: Speaking of Sluts!

<NotMiki> I mean, we're talking life vs. liberty, with the pursuit of happiness providing color commentary.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Futurama 2020 Season 2, Week 1
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2020, 12:12:06 AM »
It seems to eat a minimum of 5 turns off the enemy (should be irrespective of speed).

It may be worth less respect if you count the chance an enemy might flee against Angelo, although the 'attack other enemies' feature is discarded in a duel too.

As far as SP goes, the DS version is way nicer to Angelo and he can afford 100 Charisma/staves (infinite healing!) And a few points in swords for Flame Slash.

The original should probably not bother with so many sword points? Flame Slash is his best combo with Oomph, being actually a 1.3x mult anyways (2.6x after oomph), and he might be able to swing pearly gates (for damage he can tense up) and kathwack? Not sure how that all falls out.

Okay I really want someone to test the PS2 version as well because I have clear memories of confuse wearing off faster than that.

Flame Slash is only a 1x multiplier in the PS2 version... both the stat topic and mech guide independently confirm this. And even if it were stronger, it's got an unfortunate element for the DL... Falcon Slash is definitely something he wants. The stat topic also went for Miracle Slash because of its power with Oomph (2.5x compared to Falcon's 2.25x) though that's something he can afford to give up too if necessary.

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

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Re: Futurama 2020 Season 2, Week 1
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2020, 01:28:38 PM »
PC and enemy confuse may be different? Kafuddle may give a better duration than just fuddle too, although I'm unsure on that point.

Flame Slash is a bit tricky because while the nominal multiplier is 1.0x, the fire elemental damage references a specialized table that features a 'no resistance' multiplier of 1.3x.


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Re: Futurama 2020 Season 2, Week 1
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2020, 05:20:27 PM »
I just checked the stat topic, and OK claimed that Kafuddle was ~45% accurate MT.

I haven't played DQ8 yet myself, but based on past experiences with DQ games, but that sounds fairly plausible to me.

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Re: Futurama 2020 Season 2, Week 1
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2020, 02:01:43 PM »
Kafuddle is between 75%-85% accuracy, based on documentation/tests. But only about 9/23 enemies are susceptible at endgame, per my notes (which is better than sleep/death, in fairness).

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Re: Futurama 2020 Season 2, Week 1
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2020, 08:05:53 PM »
Godlike

Repede (Tales of Vesperia)- ii vs Lavos (Chrono Trigger)- i
Edelgard von Hresvelg (Fire Emblem: Three Houses) vs Chris Lightfellow (Suikoden III)- iiii
Baramos (Dragon Quest III)- i vs Luca Blight (Suikoden II)- ii
Cless Albane (Tales of Phantasia) vs Jowy Atreides (Suikoden II)- iiiii


Heavy

Rolf Landale (Phantasy Star II)- iii vs Angelo (Dragon Quest VIII)- i
Claude von Riegen (Fire Emblem: Three Houses)- iiii vs  Fujin (Final Fantasy VIII)
Ryuji Sakamoto (Persona 5) vs Hugo (Suikoden III)- iiii
Elize Lutus (Tales of Xillia)- i vs Maya Schroedinger (Wild ARMs 3)


Middle

Cyrus Albright (Octopath Traveler)- ii vs Messam Elmdore (Final Fantasy Tactics)- iii
Lysithea von Ordelia (Fire Emblem: Three Houses) vs Clarine (Fire Emblem: Sealed Sword)- iiiii
Xander (Fire Emblem Fates)- iiii vs Nergal (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword)
Rabbid Mario (Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle)- ii vs Kresnik Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4)


Light

Tin Man (The Wizard of Oz: Beyond the Yellow Brick Road)- iiiii vs Sinspawn Echuilles (Final Fantasy X)
Rebecca Streisand (Wild ARMs 5)- iiii vs Labyrinthia Wordsworth (Wild ARMs XF)
Luigi (Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle) vs Adray Lasbard (Star Ocean Till the End of Time)- ii
Primrose Azelhart (Octopath Traveler)- ii vs Lucia (Shadow Hearts Covenant)- iiii
CK: She is the female you
Snow: Speaking of Sluts!

<NotMiki> I mean, we're talking life vs. liberty, with the pursuit of happiness providing color commentary.