Proving Grounds: Low Light unleashes the Chuansformation

[SnowFire]

Been awhile, so some obscura with stat topics from the past year or so.  super demands slapfights, so enjoy.

Chu-Chu (Xenogears) - DL control.  A low level, inferior life-form.

Gilliam (Brigandine) - Did you know that a cardinal is a custom chess piece that can move like a knight OR a bishop?  Anyway, Gilliam is a cardinal and that's about all I know about him.

Taria (Saga Scarlet Grace) - A mage with a huge skillset, infinite resources, and a defensive formation that helps fix her mage HP!  Pity about those charge times.

Anjaya / Alicia (Wintermoor) - A mage with bad durability and meh damage, but at least has a devastating ultimate to build to?

Flayn (Fire Emblem Three Houses) - A mage with bad durability and meh damage, but at least has counterattacks and super regen courtesy of the fish in her diet.

Nio (Atelier Ayesha) - Known for unethical use of bovines.  Has a high hit rate of status on her best cow-related damage, what a goddess - oh, Hold only lasts 25% of a turn?  Never mind.



Chu-Chu vs. Rennac (Fire Emblem 8)
Chu-Chu vs. Luna (Lunar SSSC)
Chu-Chu vs. Thomas (Suikoden 3)
Chu-Chu vs. Selphie (Final Fantasy 8)

Chu-Chu vs. Marivel (Wild Arms 2)
Chu-Chu vs. Dragoon (Final Fantasy 5)
Chu-Chu vs. Primrose (Octopath Traveler)
Chu-Chu vs. Nina (Breath of Fire 3)

Chu-Chu vs. Female Thief (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Chu-Chu vs. Rufus (Final Fantasy 7)
Chu-Chu vs. Jelanda (Valkyrie Profile)
Chu-Chu vs. Amy Sage (Phantasy Star 2)


Gilliam vs. Rennac (Fire Emblem 8)
Gilliam vs. Luna (Lunar SSSC)
Gilliam vs. Thomas (Suikoden 3)
Gilliam vs. Selphie (Final Fantasy 8)

Gilliam vs. Marivel (Wild Arms 2)
Gilliam vs. Dragoon (Final Fantasy 5)
Gilliam vs. Primrose (Octopath Traveler)
Gilliam vs. Nina (Breath of Fire 3)

Gilliam vs. Female Thief (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Gilliam vs. Rufus (Final Fantasy 7)
Gilliam vs. Jelanda (Valkyrie Profile)
Gilliam vs. Amy Sage (Phantasy Star 2)


Taria vs. Rennac (Fire Emblem 8)
Taria vs. Luna (Lunar SSSC)
Taria vs. Thomas (Suikoden 3)
Taria vs. Selphie (Final Fantasy 8)

Taria vs. Marivel (Wild Arms 2)
Taria vs. Dragoon (Final Fantasy 5)
Taria vs. Primrose (Octopath Traveler)
Taria vs. Nina (Breath of Fire 3)

Taria vs. Female Thief (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Taria vs. Rufus (Final Fantasy 7)
Taria vs. Jelanda (Valkyrie Profile)
Taria vs. Amy Sage (Phantasy Star 2)


Anjaya vs. Rennac (Fire Emblem 8)
Anjaya vs. Luna (Lunar SSSC)
Anjaya vs. Thomas (Suikoden 3)
Anjaya vs. Selphie (Final Fantasy 8)

Anjaya vs. Marivel (Wild Arms 2)
Anjaya vs. Dragoon (Final Fantasy 5)
Anjaya vs. Primrose (Octopath Traveler)
Anjaya vs. Nina (Breath of Fire 3)

Anjaya vs. Female Thief (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Anjaya vs. Rufus (Final Fantasy 7)
Anjaya vs. Jelanda (Valkyrie Profile)
Anjaya vs. Amy Sage (Phantasy Star 2)


Flayn vs. Rennac (Fire Emblem 8)
Flayn vs. Luna (Lunar SSSC)
Flayn vs. Thomas (Suikoden 3)
Flayn vs. Selphie (Final Fantasy 8)

Flayn vs. Marivel (Wild Arms 2)
Flayn vs. Dragoon (Final Fantasy 5)
Flayn vs. Primrose (Octopath Traveler)
Flayn vs. Nina (Breath of Fire 3)

Flayn vs. Female Thief (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Flayn vs. Rufus (Final Fantasy 7)
Flayn vs. Jelanda (Valkyrie Profile)
Flayn vs. Amy Sage (Phantasy Star 2)


Nio vs. Rennac (Fire Emblem 8)
Nio vs. Luna (Lunar SSSC)
Nio vs. Thomas (Suikoden 3)
Nio vs. Selphie (Final Fantasy 8)

Nio vs. Marivel (Wild Arms 2)
Nio vs. Dragoon (Final Fantasy 5)
Nio vs. Primrose (Octopath Traveler)
Nio vs. Nina (Breath of Fire 3)

Nio vs. Female Thief (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Nio vs. Rufus (Final Fantasy 7)
Nio vs. Jelanda (Valkyrie Profile)
Nio vs. Amy Sage (Phantasy Star 2)

(Custom, make your own with find & replace!)

XX vs. Rennac (Fire Emblem 8)
XX vs. Luna (Lunar SSSC)
XX vs. Thomas (Suikoden 3)
XX vs. Selphie (Final Fantasy 8)

XX vs. Marivel (Wild Arms 2)
XX vs. Dragoon (Final Fantasy 5)
XX vs. Primrose (Octopath Traveler)
XX vs. Nina (Breath of Fire 3)

XX vs. Female Thief (Final Fantasy Tactics)
XX vs. Rufus (Final Fantasy 7)
XX vs. Jelanda (Valkyrie Profile)
XX vs. Amy Sage (Phantasy Star 2)

[Random Consonant]

Chu-Chu vs. Rennac (Fire Emblem 8) - Rennac's offense when he doubles... could be worse.  Unfortunately idol is a thing and means he only three-rounds, and Forest Prayer still offsets two Silver Sword doubles.  Meanwhile GODLIKE RES... doesn't even offset Rennac's HP and means he gets 4HKO'd by Ancient Myth (no Kokei averages).  Rennac does enjoy a decent turnsplit (Chu-Chu about 71.5% speed to me?) but I don't think that's enough barring more crit hype than I'm comfortable with considering how bad his killing edge damage is at base. e: sure, steal the idol is a completely valid plan here in my eyes.
Chu-Chu vs. Luna (Lunar SSSC) - Better resource depth at worst.
Chu-Chu vs. Thomas (Suikoden 3) - I don't remember Suiko3 stun well enough to be sure if it's worth hyping here. e: nope
Chu-Chu vs. Selphie (Final Fantasy 8) - paaaaaaaass
Chu-Chu vs. Marivel (Wild Arms 2) - ID
Chu-Chu vs. Dragoon (Final Fantasy 5) - Sure, the draining is probably enough.
Chu-Chu vs. Primrose (Octopath Traveler) - Confident enough about 8PT now for this.
Chu-Chu vs. Nina (Breath of Fire 3) - Honestly I'm not sure what would be seen as applicable to blocking BoF draining but the hit rate on Nina's AP draining spell is just so damn bad I don't think it matters and I'm not sure it's even that effective when it does work.
Chu-Chu vs. Female Thief (Final Fantasy Tactics) - Steal hype?!  Well Chu-Chu is that bad at killing...
Chu-Chu vs. Rufus (Final Fantasy 7) - 10HKO shotguns ain't working here.
Chu-Chu vs. Jelanda (Valkyrie Profile) - Christ this sucks but allowing Fairy Rings is probably enough

I think Caduceus is a bit too far on the wrong side of what I'd view as permissible, anyone in a mage build would like the extra range (mage threat range pretty bad for the most part) and too many of them have Renewal so even the base amount of regen would be a bit much, plus 3H plot claims are a bit shakier due to the whole "but I'll let you decide what to do with it professor" thing.  Likely matters for a few of these fights.

Flayn vs. Rennac (Fire Emblem 8) - Rennac doubles and probably just 3HKOs through Renewal.  Even if he doesn't (maybe partial WTD screws with this or something, I don't know), Flayn really shouldn't be 3HKOing back.
Flayn vs. Luna (Lunar SSSC) - Yeah at best Flayn is reducing sleep to turn 2 here, that's not helping enough and I don't even see that happening.
Flayn vs. Thomas (Suikoden 3) - Probably ends up in the same place as Rennac here.
Flayn vs. Selphie (Final Fantasy 8) - Not thinking about this too hard
Flayn vs. Marivel (Wild Arms 2) - Charm as universal status defense would probably give this to Flayn though.
Flayn vs. Dragoon (Final Fantasy 5) - Dragoon probably bad enough at damage to give Flayn the time she needs here, though using threat range as anything other than a tiebreak switches this since Dragoon is "only" 99% speed.
Flayn vs. Primrose (Octopath Traveler) - oh god primrose physicals do HOW little
Flayn vs. Nina (Breath of Fire 3) - Magic damage isn't what you want against Flayn.
Flayn vs. Female Thief (Final Fantasy Tactics) - Thief doubling is roughly average damage, so that two-rounds through Renewal, and I'm pretty sure I don't see Thief being frail enough as to be 3HKO'd by Excalibur, their HP isn't awful by generic standards.
Flayn vs. Rufus (Final Fantasy 7) - Hey Rufus can outpace Renewal with his doubles!  Too bad Excalibur kills him first.
Flayn vs. Jelanda (Valkyrie Profile) - Can't say I see this working out.

[DragonKnight Zero]

Chu-Chu vs. Rennac (Fire Emblem 8)
Chu-Chu vs. Luna (Lunar SSSC)
Chu-Chu vs. Thomas (Suikoden 3)
Chu-Chu vs. Selphie (Final Fantasy 8)  Has plenty of time to spin for a decisive Limit.

Chu-Chu vs. Marivel (Wild Arms 2)
Chu-Chu vs. Dragoon (Final Fantasy 5)  Drain away Chuchu's EP and outslug from there.
Chu-Chu vs. Primrose (Octopath Traveler)
Chu-Chu vs. Nina (Breath of Fire 3)
Chu-Chu] vs. Female Thief (Final Fantasy Tactics)  Xenogears has its equipment system which doesn't have dedicated slots for head and body armor.  Just how that interacts with FFT equip theft is open to interpretation.  Also Thief needs to steal enough stuff to weaken Chuchu's defense enough to KO on a doubleturn.  Could go either way as either needs favorable judgment calls for a win.  Giving it to Thief because I don't think Xenogears has instant death blockers and getting owned by a Death Sentence proc is hilarious.
Chu-Chu vs. Rufus (Final Fantasy 7)
Chu-Chu vs. Jelanda (Valkyrie Profile)
Chu-Chu vs. Amy Sage (Phantasy Star 2)  ChuChu runs out of EP before Amy runs out of TP.  Chuchu has no answer to Deban while Amy can use an Acidshot to deal defense-ignoring damage, as low as it is.  They're about similar speed too so preying on Amy's low speed isn't happening.

Nio vs. Rennac (Fire Emblem 8)
Nio vs. Luna (Lunar SSSC)  So buffed Luna hits for a decent chunk of damage.  And with that accurate sleep itemcast, she's free to buff while Nio snoozes.  Nio will probably dodge sleep at least once thanks to her innate status resist but Luna will knock her out fast enough to prevent a super.
Nio vs. Thomas (Suikoden 3)
Nio vs. Selphie (Final Fantasy 8)  Both have weak damage aside from their limits.  One doesn't require being at low HP to access.  Oink, moo.

Nio vs. Marivel (Wild Arms 2)
Nio vs. Dragoon (Final Fantasy 5) Dragoon gets trolled in the most insulting way.  She has Jump and evasion and MP draining and still loses.  Jump gets trolled because Nio can move out of the way. (she'd be forced to move in her home game if out of MP)  MP draining stops Nio's skills but not the special that oneshots her.  The MP drain is slow enough that Nio has time to get her buff up and maybe a shot of Resurrection for the HP regen.  Jabbing with the spear doesn't do enough damage to KO before getting bashed by a charging cow.
Nio vs. Primrose (Octopath Traveler)  No Octopath but it looks like Primrose builds up a OHKO faster and game.
Nio vs. Nina (Breath of Fire 3)

Nio vs. Female Thief (Final Fantasy Tactics)  Probably though it could be close.  Thief is fast but I don't think she has the damage to knock out Nio by turn 2.  And with attack down and defense up in place, should let Nio hang on long enough to unleash Pana Special for the win.  Going for equipment theft gives Nio time to build a limit and going for an Assassin Dagger proc takes too long and will likely see a stampeding cow before the death sentence ticks down.
Nio vs. Rufus (Final Fantasy 7)  Pana > Dark Nation  Rufus' damage is so low that Nio's defense buff and inflicting ATK down on Rufus drops it to a level that Nio's scrubby healing can outpace.  Can probably win without Pana Special even with Dark Nation.
Nio vs. Jelanda (Valkyrie Profile)
Nio vs. Amy Sage (Phantasy Star 2)  I think.  It's a very long slapfight though.  Deban I believe will bring Pana Special down to survivable at high HP.  Amy goes with Acidshot + shield, puts up Deban, and plugs away healing as needed.  Eventually runs Nio out of healing but not before being stampeded by a cow multiple times.  At least she's a doctor and can treat all the soreness and bruises she picks up after the fight.  Could go the other way too.  Amy is slower than Nio and having cast worst defense and HP, Nio could arguably take her out with a double (Pana Charge procs Hold, follow up with the Pana Special).

[Dark Holy Elf]

Chu-Chu: 24% magic damage (8 MP), or 21% (4 MP), 70% healing (2 MP), 64 MP, 74% speed, 1.44/0.75 mdur. Takes a large pdur hit to block status (pdur becomes 0.78).

Chu-Chu vs. Rennac (Fire Emblem 8): Rennac 3RKOs, Chu-Chu can heal and toss in damage to kill in ~5 attacks considering evade. Rennac does ATB-double periodically, but even so, I don't think Chu-Chu runs out of MP. Rennac's killer damage is terrible especially against high subtractive defence like Chu-Chu, don't feel like hyping that. EDIT: Or he steals her accessory, since I forgot he can do that. That gives him a 2RKO and a win.
Chu-Chu vs. Luna (Lunar SSSC): Chu-Chu blocks sleep or gets wrecked. With sleep blocked, Chu-Chu... still barely avoids a 2HKO from buffed Luna. Still, Luna 3HKOs and Chu-Chu 5-6HKOs depending on damage used... Chu-Chu does have better healing relatively, but it's not enough, especially since Luna's offence isn't burning her own MP, so Chu-Chu runs out first.
Chu-Chu vs. Thomas (Suikoden 3): Thomas only 6HKOs while Chu-Chu at least 4HKOs, Chu-Chu can heal at safe times to ward off any threat of stun.
Chu-Chu vs. Selphie (Final Fantasy 8): Probably. Chu-Chu's bad speed gives Selphie a wide limit range even if Chu-Chu comes up with the perfect chip strategy.

Chu-Chu vs. Marivel (Wild Arms 2): Guillotine.
Chu-Chu vs. Dragoon (Final Fantasy 5): Jump is useless, but maybe MP stealing...? Entirely comes down to that. Chu-Chu once out of MP is utterly awful. And... honestly, yeah, I'm not sure exactly how effective I see that being, but it doesn't need to be great to run Chu-Chu out of MP before she kills here.
Chu-Chu vs. Primrose (Octopath Traveler): Kills on turn 3 with her max-buffed damage. Chu-Chu isn't stopping that.
Chu-Chu vs. Nina (Breath of Fire 3): Like Dragoon, I think MP draining is the only hope here for Nina. Unlike Dragoon the MP drain is blocked by status protection in-game and Chu-Chu has no reason not to load up on that against Nina's lack of physical.

Chu-Chu vs. Female Thief (Final Fantasy Tactics): Stealing the armour should yield a 3HKO thereafter (the armour is like a 1.16 increase in pdur raw according to my notes, losing that nearly triples the damage Chu-Chu takes), which should enough considering the turnsplit. This feels like a rare fight where stealing is decisive, due to the unique combination of Thief facing a tanky healer with damage/speed too bad to threaten Thief before the steal can go off.
Chu-Chu vs. Rufus (Final Fantasy 7): Chu-Chu pretty good against bland Light physicals.
Chu-Chu vs. Jelanda (Valkyrie Profile): Jelanda's only hope is to run Chu-Chu out of MP with her own healing. And that... actually should happen? Jelanda heals every 4 turns, Chu-Chu gets 3 turns during that which isn't enough to do 80% to Jelanda. Wow.

Gilliam has 0.95/0.89 durability, just above average turn 1 speed, 23% damage (also melee counter), regen (4 turns of 10%, 40 MP), and 36% healing (65 MP), 319 MP total. 4x Heal + 1x Loop Heal typically.

Gilliam vs. Rennac (Fire Emblem 8): Gilliam opens with Loop Heal, Rennac does 53% - 10% from regen - 36% from healing = net 7% per turn until Loop Heal wears off, then net 17%... kills on turn 6 after Gilliam doesn't heal. Gilliam will spend five turns on spells then one finishing attack, meaning he gets five counters and one attack for six attacks total. He... 4HKOs, but due to his bad accuracy, Rennac has around 44% evade. If Rennac dodges 3 times he wins, which is... probably just over 50%. Plus Rennac might crit (Gillliam might crit too, but Rennac's crits are way more potent). Close!
Gilliam vs. Luna (Lunar SSSC): Way deeper resources. Also better damage and durability after she buffs.
Gilliam vs. Thomas (Suikoden 3): Gilliam only hits Thomas with one attack out of six. Granted, he does 4HKO, but needing ~24 attacks to win... hard to imagine that cuts it, even with counters in there. Assuming uses five turns on heals, he's killing sometime around turn 15, and 15 turns of Thomas offence kills Gilliam no matter how much he heals.
Gilliam vs. Selphie (Final Fantasy 8): Selphie gets a good limit, part 2.

Gilliam vs. Marivel (Wild Arms 2): Guillotine.
Gilliam vs. Dragoon (Final Fantasy 5): As with Chu-Chu, the MP busting is decisive.
Gilliam vs. Primrose (Octopath Traveler): On top of Gilliam's other problems, he's at least somewhat weak to dark here.
Gilliam vs. Nina (Breath of Fire 3): Gilliam 3HKOs, but with shaky accuracy (Nina probably dodges once), so 4HKO. Nina... probably just spell barrages him to death first? I'm not sure exactly what average I use but Nina 3HKOing seems reasonable to me, and he runs out of MP first if he tries to stall her.

Gilliam vs. Female Thief (Final Fantasy Tactics): Steal Heart makes him heal and buff her, once he's out of MP she can probably win the resulting slugfest though it's sadly close due to his counters.
Gilliam vs. Rufus (Final Fantasy 7): Rufus is not good.
Gilliam vs. Jelanda (Valkyrie Profile): Gilliam does at least 4HKO Jelanda to overpower Heal. So can she just beat him in a slugfest? No, probably not. Jelanda evade sucks, Gilliam probably does hit four times in a row.

Flayn is doubled by average (though if unweighed, not by much). Frozen Lance does 35%, Excalibur does 29%, Fire does 23%, Nosferatu does 17% (-5% on counters for the spells, Frozen Lance doesn't counter). 12 uses of Nosferatu, which also heals 26%/19%, Flayn herself heals 50% at base. 0.62/1.93 durability, capped Charm.

Flayn vs. Rennac (Fire Emblem 8): Rennac does 81%, not good enough since Flayn counters, until she whiffs Nosferatu at least... which does happen pretty fast? But actually, Flayn afford that. Rennac could go for crits though... and with Flayn's awful luck, I'm inclined to actually respect that enough to win here.
Flayn vs. Luna (Lunar SSSC): If Flayn ever equips anything that weighs her down, she gets doubled... so Luna puts her to sleep then wakes her up with some monster damage. And I think Flayn probably needs Nosferatu to not get beaten down here.
Flayn vs. Thomas (Suikoden 3): Thomas does 91%, which... sounds good but actually doesn't let him win barring a Nosferatu whiff (which I'm not inclined to buy against someone without MEvade) or Thomas crit (not hyping that, though Flayn's luck means it's not crazy).
Flayn vs. Selphie (Final Fantasy 8): Selphie has almost the same damage as Thomas, so the match plays out similarly. I think Frozen Lance as a finisher means Selphie isn't going to get a limit.

Flayn vs. Marivel (Wild Arms 2): Don't think her status is worth much here.
Flayn vs. Dragoon (Final Fantasy 5): Flayn's ability to deal with all these low-damage fighters is kinda impressive? Loses if you see Jump doubling, I don't.
Flayn vs. Primrose (Octopath Traveler): Don't try to win with magic damage against Flayn in Light.
Flayn vs. Nina (Breath of Fire 3): Ayup.

Flayn vs. Female Thief (Final Fantasy Tactics): Caduceus is immune to being stolen in-game, funny. Charm's interesting but doesn't get around the core regen problem.
Flayn vs. Rufus (Final Fantasy 7)
Flayn vs. Jelanda (Valkyrie Profile): Flayn can 4HKO to overcome Jelanda's own Heal, preventing this from being the longest match of all time.

Flayn 9-2
Chu-Chu 3-8
Gilliam 2-9

There's definitely a level of physical damage where Flayn just starts dying horribly even in Light (it's just above Thomas), but this field didn't have much of it. So I don't think she's quite as good as this field made her look... but still, exceeded my expectations for sure. Gilliam is terrible.

[SnowFire]

Chu-Chu vs. Rennac (Fire Emblem 8)
Reading Elf's comments on Thief vs. Chu-Chu....  while FE rogues clearly can't steal equipped weapons or armor, they miiight be able to steal accessories?  And it sounds like snagging the idol here is sufficiently horrible that it might swing things to Rennac, since high defense foils him and he really wants to prey on low defense characters.  On the other hand, I can see antihyping it since when exactly is this useful?  Stealing the Hoplon Guard / Filli Shield vs Caellech / Valter maybe if you want to crit / arrow them up?!
Chu-Chu vs. Luna (Lunar SSSC)
Chu-Chu vs. Thomas (Suikoden 3)
Chu-Chu vs. Selphie (Final Fantasy 8)

Chu-Chu vs. Marivel (Wild Arms 2)
Chu-Chu vs. Dragoon (Final Fantasy 5)
I'll admit that I totally forgot about Dragoon's MP draining (I wonder what they were thinking, considering Dragoon doesn't have spells by default, to stick it on Dragoon?!).  A rare case of it coming in handy.
Chu-Chu vs. Primrose (Octopath Traveler)

Chu-Chu vs. Female Thief (Final Fantasy Tactics)
I'll buy Elf's Steal hype.  Even if the steal takes 3 turns to get off or something, Chu-Chu is getting nearly constantly doubled or something like.
Chu-Chu vs. Rufus (Final Fantasy 7)
Chu-Chu vs. Jelanda (Valkyrie Profile)
Horrible death by familiar thwacks.  Shame, Chu-Chu.  Shame.


Flayn vs. Rennac (Fire Emblem 8)
Yeah, Rennac just LOVES seeing terrible subtractive defense to make his puny sword hits feel alive, especially with Killer strategies vs the regen.
Flayn vs. Luna (Lunar SSSC)
Flayn vs. Thomas (Suikoden 3)
While Stun won't turn off Flayn's Caduceus & Renewal Regen, it'll at least stop the Nos counters?  ...if Thomas durability was marginally respectable, I'd hype a Stun or crit, anyway, but it isn't, so Flayn isn't giving Thomas a whole lot of time to find the Stun.
Flayn vs. Selphie (Final Fantasy 8)
I suppose, but pretty dang close.

Flayn vs. Marivel (Wild Arms 2)
Even if Charm is given a little credit for status defense, I think Flayn needs a LOT of credit for it to win here.  Marivel doesn't need to fish for ID, she can go for the safer Silence option since, unusually, this Fire Emblem character is in real trouble when silenced - 1 damage Silver Lance hits aren't scaring a lot.  Luck being what determines WA2 status (even if more on Marivel's side) isn't real great for Flayn's case here either.
Flayn vs. Dragoon (Final Fantasy 5)
Flayn vs. Primrose (Octopath Traveler)
Primrose REALLY wants you to allow a physical based Allure summon here, so her winning isn't out of the question, but nah.

Flayn vs. Female Thief (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Male Thief could probably take it, though seeing Charm as Steal Heart defense might be pretty valid!
Flayn vs. Rufus (Final Fantasy 7)
Flayn vs. Jelanda (Valkyrie Profile)

Chu-Chu: 2-7-1
Flayn: 7-3

[DjinnAndTonic]

Taria vs. Rennac (Fire Emblem 8) - Rennac isn't 2RKO-ing, so Taria can take it easy. Probably starts with Poison Mist for 15%mHP/turn poison, then just sits back and heals until Poison does its and avoids letting Rennac get any counters.
Taria vs. Luna (Lunar SSSC) - Taria has decent overall status resistance from her high WIL stat, but only by SGSG standards. Luna gets off Sleep and that's match.
Taria vs. Thomas (Suikoden 3) - I think Taria might just tank 4 hits and OHKO him with Crimson Flare. (He was pretty bad on durability in general, so she might have an even faster OHKO in Water Blast, but CF *definitely* ends him.)
Taria vs. Selphie (Final Fantasy 8) - long Casting times against Selphie is a bad idea. Taria's casting times are exceptionally long.

Taria vs. Marivel (Wild Arms 2) - too lazy to check which status Marivel uses to end Taria's life, but status is a problem for her.
Taria vs. Dragoon (Final Fantasy 5) - Rude match. If Dragoon Jumps, Taria has time to plan his demise. Alternately, he can jump to avoid her spell if she starts chanting before he's locked into an action. Probably devolves into a melee fight and while Taria's physicals are surprisingly competent for a mage, I *doubt* she wins that exchange? Possible though.
Taria vs. Primrose (Octopath Traveler) - I totally allow Primrose high-end Allure companions, so Taria's just not in her league to me.
Taria vs. Nina (Breath of Fire 3) - I think Taria just staff-whacks Nina3 to death first.

Taria vs. Female Thief (Final Fantasy Tactics) - Don't think Thief has enough damage output to stop Taria from just dropping a Water Blast nuke on turn 3 and ending her, especially with Taria's relatively high Weapon Parry and Shield Block rate making her better against physicals than most mages in Light. So Thief probably has to spend turns snagging her stuff just to land a hit. And giving Taria turns to cast is a bad idea.
Taria vs. Rufus (Final Fantasy 7) - kneejerk anti-Rufus.
Taria vs. Jelanda (Valkyrie Profile) - Taria kinda feels like she does the VP Mage thing, but slightly better?
Taria vs. Amy Sage (Phantasy Star 2) - I think Amy debuffs Taria enough before Taria can nuke that Amy can heal-stall through any damage Taria puts out. Amy's damage is equally anaemic, though, so Taria can (much more slowly, though infinitely) heal off Amy's offense. Uh... it's a forever match I don't wanna math out, so I'm tiebreaking in favor of infinite healing.



Flayn vs. Rennac (Fire Emblem 8)
Flayn vs. Luna (Lunar SSSC)
Flayn vs. Thomas (Suikoden 3)
Flayn vs. Selphie (Final Fantasy 8)

Flayn vs. Marivel (Wild Arms 2)
Flayn vs. Dragoon (Final Fantasy 5)
Flayn vs. Primrose (Octopath Traveler)
Flayn vs. Nina (Breath of Fire 3)

Flayn vs. Female Thief (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Flayn vs. Rufus (Final Fantasy 7)
Flayn vs. Jelanda (Valkyrie Profile)
Flayn vs. Amy Sage (Phantasy Star 2)

I think Flayn is overall the better duelist of the ones I can vote on.

[Dark Holy Elf]

For Rennac vs Chu-Chu: Honestly yeah, stealing accessories in FE8 is in fact legit and useful, I'm inclined to buy that.

Flayn's charm (and res, if you insist on using it for that function even though it no longer serves that purpose in 3H) is over 6 points above average, which is enough for a 30% reduction in hit rate raw, so yeah, Marivel's silence is kinda turn 5 after that. If you subject it to luck then of course Marivel wins, but WA2 enemies don't have luck and Flayn's luck doesn't affect status defence so I don't personally buy that.

[SnowFire]

For Silence specifically, it is in fact possible to reduce 3H Silence spell's hit rate below 100, just difficult since its base hit rate is like 140 or something.  (I seem to remember seeing Marianne having ~81 to Hit on boss Hubert in the second-to-last Azure Moon mission, I believe...  for all that this is irrelevant since Hubert immunes Silence anyway, but the game lets you TRY to Silence him!  Side comment: Silence was surprisingly handy in Azure Moon later missions.)  I can't seem to find the formula anywhere, though..  it'd surprise me if it used Charm, though, my suspicion is that it too uses mostly Luck similar to Echoes.  (Where my guessed enemy-magic evade formula was apparently not quite right from Random's tests, although it's mostly academic since so few enemies have any magic evade at all in that game, and Luck still seems to be the main ingredient.)  Assuming this is the case, there'd be some cause for using Lck from within 3H as well.  (Although enemy Silence users are vanishingly rare..  Azure Moon final mission I think has a few?  And monsters with magic-bind hidden ability of course, but that's a different source.)

[Random Consonant]

Yes, Silence is subject to magic evasion (average of speed and luck from what I recall observing, charm isn't a factor into it at all, thanks for not telling the player this 3H UI) just like any other spell, just 100 base hit + enemies not having good magic evade = ahaha good luck noticing outside of early Maddening I guess, so it's perfectly fair to hold magical status to that because that's how it actually works and both Flayn's speed and luck are terrible.

Never mind that Charm has one of the worst arguments for being used as universal status defense that I've ever seen, only covering one way out of four.  No, being the predominant one is not nearly good enough.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Being the predominant method of status defence seems like a pretty good reason for me? This is actually rather like Sacred Stones, where one method of status accuracy (stone being subject to normal evade) was ignored in favour of the more common method (status staves checking res).

The difference is that in 3H it's even more extreme. White magic silence is so rare as to be literally non-existent on at least one of the routes, whereas charm-subject status attacks exist on every single map with human opponents from chapter 2 on. I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that over 90% of enemy status attacks in 3H are made via a charm check.

Also more generally charm is an important stat in 3H and I feel like giving it some effect is a good idea (you don't seem to be? Correct me if I'm wrong). Defensively every attack it blocks attempts to inflict some sort of status. They're also all AoE, so I guess you could say it's an AoE defensive stat instead, but that seems less intuitive to me (plus I suspect you face more AoE non-status attacks which check evade than you face non-AoE status attacks which check evade).

[Random Consonant]

It's actually not rather like Sacred Stones, since every rattling attack is attached to something that deals damage, and I have never seen FE stats affecting status odds in that situation because that's never been how the mechanics work (see: Venin weapons), never mind the fact that I don't agree with taking that view anyways (just dark magic-flavored pure status tends to be rather rare and I don't think anyone does vs. the statuslike HP-1/gravity stuff anyways so yeah hardly swayed by that) or the fact that we're talking about non-damaging magical status here, which again, Charm is completely and proveably irrelevent for so really it's more like saying Special Defense in Pokemon affects status odds of Spore and the like, which is an interp that I have never agreed with because not only is it untrue, there isn't really any good reason to ignore that fact, like there is with converting TB speed to CTB or hell even letting VP1 characters store energy (for all that that one doesn't meet my standards of good enough, it's still probably more reasonable than this).  The best I could reasonably see accepting in this argument is that since enemy use of Silence in 3H is so irrelevent and since WA2 imposes no real check of its own that Marivel's status should be taken at base odds but since that still requires ignoring player-end Silence I can't really agree.

While I wouldn't be adverse to giving Charm some credit in some sort of vaguely applicable situation, this isn't the first time where a useful ingame stat turned out to be useless in the DL translation so you're largely correct that I don't.

[Pyro]

Chu-Chu vs. Rennac (Fire Emblem 8)
Chu-Chu vs. Luna (Lunar SSSC)
Chu-Chu vs. Thomas (Suikoden 3)
Chu-Chu vs. Selphie (Final Fantasy 8)

Chu-Chu vs. Marivel (Wild Arms 2)
Chu-Chu vs. Dragoon (Final Fantasy 5)
Chu-Chu vs. Primrose (Octopath Traveler)
Chu-Chu vs. Nina (Breath of Fire 3)

Chu-Chu vs. Female Thief (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Chu-Chu vs. Rufus (Final Fantasy 7)
Chu-Chu vs. Jelanda (Valkyrie Profile)
Chu-Chu vs. Amy Sage (Phantasy Star 2)


Gilliam vs. Rennac (Fire Emblem 8)
Gilliam vs. Luna (Lunar SSSC)
Gilliam vs. Thomas (Suikoden 3)
Gilliam vs. Selphie (Final Fantasy 8)

Gilliam vs. Marivel (Wild Arms 2)
Gilliam vs. Dragoon (Final Fantasy 5)
Gilliam vs. Primrose (Octopath Traveler)
Gilliam vs. Nina (Breath of Fire 3)

Gilliam vs. Female Thief (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Gilliam vs. Rufus (Final Fantasy 7)
Gilliam vs. Jelanda (Valkyrie Profile)
Gilliam vs. Amy Sage (Phantasy Star 2)


Taria vs. Rennac (Fire Emblem 8)
Taria vs. Luna (Lunar SSSC)
Taria vs. Thomas (Suikoden 3)
Taria vs. Selphie (Final Fantasy 8)

Taria vs. Marivel (Wild Arms 2)
Taria vs. Dragoon (Final Fantasy 5)
Taria vs. Primrose (Octopath Traveler)
Taria vs. Nina (Breath of Fire 3)

Taria vs. Female Thief (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Taria vs. Rufus (Final Fantasy 7)
Taria vs. Jelanda (Valkyrie Profile)
Taria vs. Amy Sage (Phantasy Star 2)


Anjaya vs. Rennac (Fire Emblem 8)
Anjaya vs. Luna (Lunar SSSC)
Anjaya vs. Thomas (Suikoden 3)
Anjaya vs. Selphie (Final Fantasy 8)

Anjaya vs. Marivel (Wild Arms 2)
Anjaya vs. Dragoon (Final Fantasy 5)
Anjaya vs. Primrose (Octopath Traveler)
Anjaya vs. Nina (Breath of Fire 3)

Anjaya vs. Female Thief (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Anjaya vs. Rufus (Final Fantasy 7)
Anjaya vs. Jelanda (Valkyrie Profile)
Anjaya vs. Amy Sage (Phantasy Star 2)


Flayn vs. Rennac (Fire Emblem 8)
Flayn vs. Luna (Lunar SSSC)
Flayn vs. Thomas (Suikoden 3)
Flayn vs. Selphie (Final Fantasy 8)

Flayn vs. Marivel (Wild Arms 2)
Flayn vs. Dragoon (Final Fantasy 5)
Flayn vs. Primrose (Octopath Traveler)
Flayn vs. Nina (Breath of Fire 3)

Flayn vs. Female Thief (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Flayn vs. Rufus (Final Fantasy 7)
Flayn vs. Jelanda (Valkyrie Profile)
Flayn vs. Amy Sage (Phantasy Star 2)


Nio vs. Rennac (Fire Emblem 8)
Nio vs. Luna (Lunar SSSC)
Nio vs. Thomas (Suikoden 3)
Nio vs. Selphie (Final Fantasy 8)

Nio vs. Marivel (Wild Arms 2)
Nio vs. Dragoon (Final Fantasy 5)
Nio vs. Primrose (Octopath Traveler)
Nio vs. Nina (Breath of Fire 3)

Nio vs. Female Thief (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Nio vs. Rufus (Final Fantasy 7)
Nio vs. Jelanda (Valkyrie Profile)
Nio vs. Amy Sage (Phantasy Star 2)

[superaielman]

Gilliam vs. Rennac (Fire Emblem 8)- Strong kneejerk. Gilliam's a bad slugger.
Gilliam vs. Luna (Lunar SSSC)- Among his other problems, Gilliam has subpar status defense.
Gilliam vs. Thomas (Suikoden 3)
Gilliam vs. Selphie (Final Fantasy 8)- Gilliam is running headlong into a limit and he has no ability to avoid it.

Gilliam vs. Marivel (Wild Arms 2)
Gilliam vs. Dragoon (Final Fantasy 5)- Forget the MP draining, I don't think Gilliam can win the slugfest regardless due to Dragoon evade/physical defense.
Gilliam vs. Primrose (Octopath Traveler)
Gilliam vs. Nina (Breath of Fire 3)- Blunt. Gilliam is going to be doing basically no damage after one casting of that. His wonderful status defense ensures that it'll land turn one as well.

Gilliam vs. Female Thief (Final Fantasy Tactics)- On top of his other problems, Gilliam runs straight into class evade on his counter attacks. That removes any doubt.
Gilliam vs. Rufus (Final Fantasy 7)- Rufus is a puny.
Gilliam vs. Jelanda (Valkyrie Profile)- Veil owns Jelanda's once per however turns damage strat so hard. I can't believe Gilliam is getting use out of Veil, but here we are.
Gilliam vs. Amy Sage (Phantasy Star 2)-Deeper resources+Shu.


Gilliam- 2-10. Is in the Paula tier of just being absolutely awful.