RPGVO 2022 Round 3: Losers' Pools 1, Double Dragon Godlike

[074]

GODLIKE

Cloud of Darkness (FF3) vs. Ryu (BoF3)
Chaz Ashley (PSIV) vs. Lamington (Disgaea)
Mewtwo (PKMN) vs. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs)
Ryu (BoF2) vs. Sephiroth (FF7)


HEAVY

Naoto Shirogane (P4) vs. Edge (FF4)
Ness (Earthbound) vs. Ike (FEs)
Meliadoul Tingel (FFT) vs. X (MMX:CM)
Vayne (MK) vs. Margulis (XS2)


MIDDLE

Ashley Winchester (WA2) vs. Squall Leonhart (FF8)
Kent (FE7) vs. Koromaru (P3)
Crono (CT) vs. Stocke (RH)
Chrom (FE:A) vs. Chameleon Man (WA3)


LIGHT

Thief (FF5) vs. Paula (EB)
Natan (SH3) vs. Pikachu (PKMN)
Genis Sage (ToS) vs. Maria Balthasar (Xenogears)
Jogurt (ShF1) vs. Zell Dincht (FF8)

[superaielman]

GODLIKE

Chaz Ashley (PSIV) vs. Lamington (Disgaea)- Suspect Chaz can’t avoid a heal lock.
Mewtwo (PKMN) vs. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs)- Kneejerk of Gen3 Mewtwo not being very good.
Ryu (BoF2) vs. Sephiroth (FF7)-status.


HEAVY

Naoto Shirogane (P4) vs. Edge (FF4)- Naoto needs the ID to be turn one to win here; odds are Edge can status or outslug otherwise.
Meliadoul Tingel (FFT) vs. X (MMX:CM)-Weapon break seems to wreck X.
Vayne (MK) vs. Margulis (XS2)- Vayne runs out of SP.


MIDDLE

Ashley Winchester (WA2) vs. Squall Leonhart (FF8)-abstain.

LIGHT

Natan (SH3) vs. Pikachu (PKMN)- surely. Natan can block the status.

[074]

GODLIKE

Chaz Ashley (PSIV) vs. Lamington (Disgaea) - Lamington heal-locks.  It's a long match of heal-locking, and even if it weren't for that, Chaz doesn't quite have the offense to blitz him down.  Poor bastard feels like a borderliner caught on the wrong side.
Ryu (BoF2) vs. Sephiroth (FF7) - So, this one.  I hold Sephy to his pattern, so he's stuck using his first turn to futilely cast Wall before Ryu G-Dragons him into component atoms.  Even without that, though, it is notable that all of Sephiroth's status is gated behind having to use a turn to fly.  His *one* shot may be trying to kill with Shadow Flare, but it's probably a close one in that case. [EDIT] Right, his basic physical has paralysis, forgot about that.  Doesn't matter for my personal interp, but yeah.


HEAVY

Naoto Shirogane (P4) vs. Edge (FF4) - I get the feeling that Pin may make a difference here.
Meliadoul Tingel (FFT) vs. X (MMX:CM) - ...can X even do anything without his main weapon?  Hellcry probably does a number on him, can probably be used multiple times for the subweapons, and to add insult to injury, Meliadoul can get a shot of Icewolf off to break the X-Heart as well.


MIDDLE

Kent (FE7) vs. Koromaru (P3) - Maragidyne avoids counters and 3HKOs, and High Counter and Koromaru's evade does no favors.  Nevermind the argument of Mudoon possibly being able to land.  Kent loses to dog.
Chrom (FE:A) vs. Chameleon Man (WA3) - RICHARD wins here for sure.


LIGHT

Thief (FF5) vs. Paula (EB) - Going by the one EB stat topic I can look at, Paula 4HKOs Thief (Thief gets a magic pixel on the 3HKO by my estimates), and while Thief goes first...the speed difference is not enough to secure a kill.  FF5 Thief needs six turns to kill Paula.  But what do you expect from somebody who loses to Palmer
Jogurt (ShF1) vs. Zell Dincht (FF8) - Jogurt is free

[Random Consonant]

GODLIKE

Mewtwo (PKMN) vs. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs) - Strong kneejerk. e: I guess gen1 Mewtwo pulls it off but I dislike voting based on gen1 when I have the choice.
Ryu (BoF2) vs. Sephiroth (FF7)

HEAVY

Naoto Shirogane (P4) vs. Edge (FF4) - Yeah Edge can basically tie up Naoto as long as he needs to kill unless you hold status rates against immunes.
Ness (Earthbound) vs. Ike (FEs)


MIDDLE

Ashley Winchester (WA2) vs. Squall Leonhart (FF8)
Kent (FE7) vs. Koromaru (P3) - Maragidyne does indeed 3HKO first here.
Crono (CT) vs. Stocke (RH) - Stocke's too durable here and he's hitting Crono's bad mdef to boot.  e: Ok Crono can get fire res but it's either from something that's kind of questionable to begin with (10 of every tradeable in 65m BC) or drops his defense to closer to Lucca's and it doesn't matter than all, even healing as crappy as Stocke's will give Crono fits with his durability.
Chrom (FE:A) vs. Chameleon Man (WA3) - Well I guess Byleth winning makes for a more interesting Lich match later so there's that.  Anyways yeah this is obvious.


LIGHT

Thief (FF5) vs. Paula (EB) - Yeah Thief should in no way double Paula in time.
Natan (SH3) vs. Pikachu (PKMN)
Genis Sage (ToS) vs. Maria Balthasar (Xenogears) - not thinking about this ok.
Jogurt (ShF1) vs. Zell Dincht (FF8)

[Dark Holy Elf]

GODLIKE

Cloud of Darkness (FF3) vs. Ryu (BoF3): Eh, Rudo beating CoD is kind of a rob IMO, but she gets eliminated here.
Chaz Ashley (PSIV) vs. Lamington (Disgaea): Chaz really wants ice blocking, by my count Lamington still does about 51% to him with Judgement even with two shields. Note that if you let him optimize def without changing the def average, he can get Lamington down to a 3HKO, but I'm not a fan of that.
Mewtwo (PKMN) vs. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs): I feel like turn 1 Barrier puts any quick KOs out of reach.
Ryu (BoF2) vs. Sephiroth (FF7): 100% paralysis.


HEAVY

Meliadoul Tingel (FFT) vs. X (MMX:CM): Ugggh this is a headache. X can't equip X-Heart and gets his weapon broken turn 1 (or maybe doesn't even come in with one?). But... his basic physical is ITD and should still register on the damage curve even down 110 atk (should do ~2250 if my memory of the game's mechanics are right). And I don't think his HAT is affected by his weapon at all, though it MIGHT be affected by Save the Queen. Still, X has so much more speed, evade, durability... have to imagine he can outslug Meliadoul's basic physicals.
Vayne (MK) vs. Margulis (XS2): I'll leave this to someone else.


MIDDLE

Ashley Winchester (WA2) vs. Squall Leonhart (FF8): Goes first and 2HKOs.
Crono (CT) vs. Stocke (RH): Think this is right. Someone should check the math since I'm kneejerking.
Chrom (FE:A) vs. Chameleon Man (WA3): No Windsweep here.


LIGHT

Natan (SH3) vs. Pikachu (PKMN): Not thinking too hard about Pikachu.
Jogurt (ShF1) vs. Zell Dincht (FF8): .....

[SnowFire]

Mewtwo (PKMN) vs. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs)
Ryu (BoF2) vs. Sephiroth (FF7)

HEAVY

Naoto Shirogane (P4) vs. Edge (FF4)
Match of two wildly inflated by the DL duelers.  Naoto's ID should certainly be turn 1 if used against enemies without Light/Dark resistance, and P4G was pretty generous about enemy scans, unlike FF4, so not inclined to hold resistant monsters against her too much (the only way that she should be forced to turn 2 status).

MIDDLE

Ashley Winchester (WA2) vs. Squall Leonhart (FF8)
Squall just 2HKOs and is faster?  Squall's damage is pretty good, really, Ashely is listed at 120% PCHP in Pyro's stat topic (113% without early HP Up hype) with below average speed, and Squall deals ~0.68 PCHP damage with his attack.  Ashley can use Accelerator to get the jump on turn 2 but loses too much damage from doing this.
Crono (CT) vs. Stocke (RH)
Chrom (FE:A) vs. Chameleon Man (WA3)


LIGHT

Natan (SH3) vs. Pikachu (PKMN)
His damage can't be THAT bad.
Genis Sage (ToS) vs. Maria Balthasar (Xenogears)

[Random Consonant]

you realize the whole reason edge has an argument at all is sleep/paralysis resetting ATB because unlike TAY FF4 sleep/paralysis has total junk for duration right.  the question isn't what turn naoto's ID is (probably), it's whether edge can lock her down long enough to win through doubles and if it didn't do that i'm pretty sure i'd agree with edge losing.

(also idk maybe ID in golden is better but it's sure not turn 1 in vanilla)

[Magic Fanatic]

GODLIKE

Mewtwo (PKMN) vs. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs) - I had the stupidest thought: innate elements are applied to a character's physicals unless overwritten with an Edge spell, so a For Everyone, Energy Charge physical from Somnion instead of Dark Seraphim should hit weakness on Mewtwo.  Need Tide to confirm, but I remember this being a thing.  EDIT: Cleared up by Tide.  I'm not sure where I heard this before now.
Ryu (BoF2) vs. Sephiroth (FF7) - I'm with Nama on this one.


HEAVY

Naoto Shirogane (P4) vs. Edge (FF4) - Does Naoto get Miori Shirt hype anymore?
Ness (Earthbound) vs. Ike (FEs) - Ike 3HKOs Ness with a crit.  Ness needs to land Paralysis once.


MIDDLE

Ashley Winchester (WA2) vs. Squall Leonhart (FF8) - Ashley barely misses Full Clip with Squall's damage and gets 2HKOed still.


LIGHT

Thief (FF5) vs. Paula (EB) - 4HKOs vs. 6HKOs, and for the extra nail the first three shots has a chance of solidifying Thief for a turn.
Natan (SH3) vs. Pikachu (PKMN) - Surely.
Jogurt (ShF1) vs. Zell Dincht (FF8) - SURELY.

[Tide]

GODLIKE
Mewtwo (PKMN) vs. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs) - RBY Mewtwo for me and pretty sure NEB's right on the money. Mewtwo getting the first turn means it gets the jump on the buffing game between the two and after 2 Barriers, it can probably tank an Energy Charge/Rage without issue. Not sure where people heard about innate elements being added to SH2 physicals. Maybe it's a SH1 thing, but definitely not for SH2. It would be extremely noticeable if that was the case on Terada.

HEAVY
Naoto Shirogane (P4) vs. Edge (FF4) - This feels like a match of 2 status whores, both of which on average need 2 turns to hit their money moves. Edge is faster, so that's pretty much that.
Ness (Earthbound) vs. Ike (FEs) - All Ness needs is to survive one turn and Paralysis basically incapacitates Ike. I'm not sure he does that even if he doubles...Ness durability is a thing.
Meliadoul Tingel (FFT) vs. X (MMX:CM) - Uh...this one is very weird. So as already noted, X's best plan maybe to completely strip himself of all equipment so Melia has nothing to break. The added advantage here is that he becomes much faster and I'll trust NEB on his damage not being completely fail. The key thing here though is that Ultimate Armor also cuts damage by 50% while also boosting his speed by 50% and evade by 25%. And even with reduced damage, those HATs are still going to sting. I have to imagine that over the course of 4-5 turns, X does more damage and outslugs.
Vayne (MK) vs. Margulis (XS2) - Early on in initial rankings, Snow estimated Vayne's damage bursting to be about 3.5x average damage...so maybe somewhere around 1.4x PCHP. I have to imagine Margy is more durable than that. There may be some other way for Vayne to stretch his resources out more, but I doubt it.


MIDDLE
Ashley Winchester (WA2) vs. Squall Leonhart (FF8) - Unfortunately for Ashley, having to build his FP kills him. Even seeing Squall 3HKOing, I'm not sure what Ashley does to beat Squall in the damage race. He's going 2nd and has to build up enough FP for a Force Art. Squall's not going to give him that time.
Kent (FE7) vs. Koromaru (P3) - See Nama pretty much. Koro nulls Kent's counters unless he goes with a Javelin and still has to deal with Doggo evade OR an ID Proc.
Crono (CT) vs. Stocke (RH) - Unless Crono blocked Fire, pretty sure Stocke has this one. A case of one person hitting the wrong defense and the other hitting the right one.
Chrom (FE:A) vs. Chameleon Man (WA3) - TONFA BATON RICHARD HAWK strikes again


LIGHT
Thief (FF5) vs. Paula (EB) - Good god, what the fuck. FF5 Thief making waves in all the wrong ways. You know it is bad when FFT Thief is better than you.
Natan (SH3) vs. Pikachu (PKMN) - Paralysis blocker forces Pika to go for damage. Natan's also has some slight Wind resist which you MAY see analogous to electric attacks (Gale Rod and Gale Blast are noticeably lightning elemental)
Jogurt (ShF1) vs. Zell Dincht (FF8) - BALROG CRUSH PUNY HAMSTER

[Magic Fanatic]

GODLIKE
Mewtwo (PKMN) vs. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs) - RBY Mewtwo for me and pretty sure NEB's right on the money. Mewtwo getting the first turn means it gets the jump on the buffing game between the two and after 2 Barriers, it can probably tank an Energy Charge/Rage without issue. Not sure where people heard about innate elements being added to SH2 physicals. Maybe it's a SH1 thing, but definitely not for SH2. It would be extremely noticeable if that was the case on Terada.

Thank you for clearing that one up for me.

Crono (CT) vs. Stocke (RH) - Unless Crono blocked Fire, pretty sure Stocke has this one. A case of one person hitting the wrong defense and the other hitting the right one.

If it helps, Crono can go into a source of "storebought" Fire Resist armor: The Ruby Armor.  Bought in Prehistoria for 10 of each tradable, and blocks Fire by 80%.

https://www.chronowiki.org/wiki/Ruby_Armor

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Cloud of Darkness (FF3) vs. Ryu (BoF3) - Ryu's just faster.
Mewtwo (PKMN) vs. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs) - I don't think any of the Yuris has much of a case against RBY Mewtwo. Open with Amnesia => explosions works against both, and they can't really stop this from happening with the one turn they get.
Ryu (BoF2) vs. Sephiroth (FF7) - Paralysis, yeah.

Naoto Shirogane (P4) vs. Edward Geraldine (FF4) - No idea where this "Naoto ID has to be turn one against Edge" stuff is coming from (besides, her ID is turn one with her default setup anyway, it's like 70-75%, P4 ID was the most accurate in the series by far). Miori Shirt makes her evade around 80%, and while it lowers her ID to turn two against average, Edge's sleep is like turn three at best against that evade. Also, since MDef factors into status resistance in FF4 and Edge is horrible at it, it may as well be turn one ANYWAY.
Ness (Earthbound) vs. Ike (FEs) - Yep.
Meliadoul Tingel (FFT) vs. X (MMX:CM) - I'll bite just because Meliadoul base slugging is so -bad-.
Vayne Aurelius (MK) vs. Margulis (XS2) - Sure.

Ashley Winchester (WA2) vs. Squall Leonhart (FF8) - I think Squall just 2HKOs first. Ashley's not super great.
Kent (FE7) vs. Koromaru (P3) - Maragidyne deals with the counters and Koro's modest evade handles the rest on average, yeah.
Crono (CT) vs. Stocke (RH) - Crono has fire resistance, but I think the real problem here is that even Stocke's kinda shoddy healing gives Crono serious issues. Crono misses the 3HKO on Stocke to begin with on both durabilities, which is a bad start. I suppose it makes the match worth thinking about to some degree, but not anything more.
Chrom (FE:A) vs. Chameleon Man (WA3) - Tonfa saves the day.

Thief (FF5) vs. Paula (EB) - Wow. You know you're special when you're a physical fighter who fails to outslug Paula.
Natan (SH3) vs. Pikachu (PKMN) - Not much fails to 2HKO Pikachu, and I'm not sure if Natan's even below the 3HKO to average threshold.
Jogurt (ShF1) vs. Zell Dincht (FF8) - Overlord!

[Pyro]

GODLIKE

Cloud of Darkness (FF3) vs. Ryu (BoF3)
Chaz Ashley (PSIV) vs. Lamington (Disgaea)
Mewtwo (PKMN) vs. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs)
Ryu (BoF2) vs. Sephiroth (FF7)


HEAVY

Naoto Shirogane (P4) vs. Edge (FF4)
Ness (Earthbound) vs. Ike (FEs): Shield Beta?
Meliadoul Tingel (FFT) vs. X (MMX:CM)
Vayne (MK) vs. Margulis (XS2)


MIDDLE

Ashley Winchester (WA2) vs. Squall Leonhart (FF8): 2HKOs and is faster. Not much Ashley can do here.
Kent (FE7) vs. Koromaru (P3)
Crono (CT) vs. Stocke (RH)
Chrom (FE:A) vs. Chameleon Man (WA3)


LIGHT

Thief (FF5) vs. Paula (EB)
Natan (SH3) vs. Pikachu (PKMN)
Genis Sage (ToS) vs. Maria Balthasar (Xenogears): Prism Sword is good damage to her bad damage.
Jogurt (ShF1) vs. Zell Dincht (FF8)

[Cmdr_King]

GODLIKE

Cloud of Darkness (FF3) vs. Ryu (BoF3)
Chaz Ashley (PSIV) vs. Lamington (Disgaea)
Mewtwo (PKMN) vs. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs)
Ryu (BoF2) vs. Sephiroth (FF7)


HEAVY

Naoto Shirogane (P4) vs. Edge (FF4)
Ness (Earthbound) vs. Ike (FEs)
Meliadoul Tingel (FFT) vs. X (MMX:CM)- Apparently
Vayne (MK) vs. Margulis (XS2)


MIDDLE

Ashley Winchester (WA2) vs. Squall Leonhart (FF8)- Huh, weird.
Kent (FE7) vs. Koromaru (P3)
Crono (CT) vs. Stocke (RH)- Yeah without mathy math this is the exact sort of match where Stocke's so-so healing is at its most useful.
Chrom (FE:A) vs. Chameleon Man (WA3)


LIGHT

Thief (FF5) vs. Paula (EB)
Natan (SH3) vs. Pikachu (PKMN)
Genis Sage (ToS) vs. Maria Balthasar (Xenogears)- Okay so Genis' damage is better than I remembered.  Honestly the two are evenly matched in most respects (Maria's damage is better than you think it is) but ToS has no HP curve while Maria manages to be 2HKOed.
Jogurt (ShF1) vs. Zell Dincht (FF8)

[DragonKnight Zero]

Chaz Ashley vs Lanington: I scale Lanington based on his power level when I beat him.  So his offense and defense are pretty terrifying.  Chaz is getting heal locked.  Even if Chaz gets the first attack, he doesn't have a means of mitigating Lanington offense and doesn't have the power to push through the durability in two attacks.

Genis vs Maria Balthasar: I don't respect Genis' damage output that much so Maria might have had a shot if her speed wasn't so poor.

[074]

Match Results

GODLIKE

Cloud of Darkness (FF3) vs. Ryu (BoF3) |||
Chaz Ashley (PSIV) vs. Lamington (Disgaea) ||||||
Mewtwo (PKMN) |||||| vs. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs) |||
Ryu (BoF2) ||| vs. Sephiroth (FF7) ||||||


HEAVY

Naoto Shirogane (P4) ||||| vs. Edge (FF4) ||||
Ness (Earthbound) |||||| vs. Ike (FEs)
Meliadoul Tingel (FFT) | vs. X (MMX:CM) ||||
Vayne (MK) vs. Margulis (XS2) |||||


MIDDLE

Ashley Winchester (WA2) vs. Squall Leonhart (FF8) ||||||||
Kent (FE7) vs. Koromaru (P3) ||||||
Crono (CT) vs. Stocke (RH) |||||||
Chrom (FE:A) vs. Chameleon Man (WA3) ||||||||


LIGHT

Thief (FF5) vs. Paula (EB) |||||||
Natan (SH3) |||||||| vs. Pikachu (PKMN)
Genis Sage (ToS) ||||| vs. Maria Balthasar (Xenogears)
Jogurt (ShF1) vs. Zell Dincht (FF8) ||||||

The losers in this round have been eliminated at 0-2 and would probably be considered for downgrading.  The winners move on to face...a hell of a lot more in the Loser's brackets.