Author Topic: King of RPGDL Round 1: Underway  (Read 721 times)

DragonKnight Zero

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King of RPGDL Round 1: Underway
« on: February 19, 2023, 05:14:58 AM »
Rolled up some brackets and we're off.  Going to be double elimination since with only 8 teams in each division, it's very little extra work.  I don't really have any hype announcer speeches in me so I'm going to go straight into the match format.  Got a few added surprises so be sure to read up.

- Though the teams are 3 members each, matches take place as a series of 1 on 1 bouts.  First bout starts with the first member of each team.  When one fighter is knocked out, the next member of the team in sequence steps up and the fight continues from that point.  Winner of the match is the team that knocks out all 3 of the other team's fighters.
- Each bout is timed.  After 50 turns (shared by both fighters) if neither fighter is knocked out a Time Over will be declared. Both will be considered defeated and the next bout will begin with the next members of each team.  Hopefully it's obvious but the timer does reset to full after any KO.
- A fighter who knocks out an opponent will receive a small amount of HP recovery.  This starts at 20%HP if winning in one action and scales linearly downward to 0.4% recovery for winning on turn 50.  Note that this winner's HP recovery is scaled to an average HP fighter.  To use the Wild ARMS 3 crew as an example.  Virginia would regain more life proportional to her max HP than Gallows and Clive would under equal win conditions.
- Other than this HP recovery, the winning fighter continues from where they left off.  HP, MP, skill charges, and other resources will remain depleted.  Meter gain, if applicable, also carries over.  So do all status effects and stat changes, positive or negative and their durations.  This is different from fighting games, which will clear all status buffs and debuffs between rounds.
- Turn order is reinitialized when a new fighter comes in.  This is for interpretation simplicity.  No initiative advantage from KO'ing an opponent with a counter, too bad.
- No dead team member bonuses or penalties.  The fights are 1 on 1 after all.
- There is a new voting option.  Double KO, if the match ends with a Time Over with the last member of both teams.  There are a number of options to handle this.  Decision (cast vote either way based on whatever personal criteria you please), Coinflip, or (my favorite comedy option) Reserves, which I will make a post in the nomination topic going into greater detail.

And now the matches.  Using the stat topics or other outside resources to get an idea of how fighters from games you haven't played is encouraged.  Otherwise, I have reason to believe some matches wouldn't get voted on at all. -

Heavyweight division -

Team SMASH: Geno / Alexia / Zerase vs Team Fellowship of the Ring: Athos / Rufus (VP2) / Geddoe

Team Surprisingly Deadly Thieves: Eric (DQ11), Therion (8PT), Morgana (P5) vs Team FE Heroes: Ike, Lyn, Ephraim

Team Speed Manip: Fie (Cold Steel) / Arnaud / Tidus vs Team Fliers: Nina (Breath of Fire 4), Sumia (FE Awakening), Rose (Legend of Dragoon)

Team Sexy Beasts: Rei (BoF3), Nikki (MK), Kevin (SD3) vs Team ...: Crono (CT), Luminary (DQ11), Freyjadour (Suiko V)

Lightweight division -

Team Servants: Gremio (S1), Brey/Borya (DQ4), Jakob (FE Fates) vs Team C-tier ninjas: Akahgi (Suiko 4), Frank (SH3), Sheena (ToS)

Team Mostly Harmless Dancers: Primrose (8PT), Dancer (FFT), Azura (FE Fates) vs Team Palmer: Olivier (WA3) / Linny (FM3) / Palmer

Team Kitteh: Purugly (Pkmn) / Daena (LoM) / Mao vs Team Isekai: Aurora (Child of Light), Frederick (Eternal Sonata), Rabbid Peach (Mario+Rabbids)

Team Cats & Frogs Living Together: Cray (Breath of Fire 4), Lethe (FE9), Frog (CT) vs Team Superaielman: Kain / Noel / Nergal

SnowFire

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Re: King of RPGDL Round 1: Underway
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2023, 04:16:30 AM »
Team SMASH: Geno / Alexia / Zerase vs Team Fellowship of the Ring: Athos / Rufus (VP2) / Geddoe

Team Surprisingly Deadly Thieves: Eric (DQ11), Therion (8PT), Morgana (P5) vs Team FE Heroes: Ike, Lyn, Ephraim
Interp question: how does Critical Claim interact with Ragnell's crit immunity?  No good way to say - Ragnell's crit immunity is pretty comprehensive in-game (no enemies with Wrath), but Eric's Critical Claim could be argued to be more like a defense-ignoring skill.  If it does work, then Ike needs Aether on turn 1, since Divide -> 3x Crit Claims should do the trick.  There's also "do you let skills double" and "if so, how does this interact with Divide".  Even if Ike immunes crits, if you see skills as doubling, then Eric will get 4x (!) Fatal Slashes off on turn 2, although admittedly allowing a counter in-between the third & fourth hit, which is a pretty high chance of instant death (40% each Fatal Slash).  On the other hand, Ike getting an Aether will both heal him and probably kill Eric.  Definitely some dice rolls afoot here.

Scenario: Eric kills Ike via ID or damage.  I think Thieves are hugely favored, then.  If Eric is on death's door, he can still get one Fatal Slash off on Lyn, and if Lyn can't OHKO him, she's in deep shit as that means Eric can Divide than get another KO.  So a high chance of Lyn just being dead, and if she even lives, she'll have taken at least one Fatal Slash to the face.  I think the others can easily carry after that.

Scenario: Ike Aethers Eric or just 3HKOs him after surviving 4 Fatal Slashes.  If Ike did things the hard way via 3HKO, he's horribly wounded and Therion just finishes him off no problem, then should finish off Lyn no problem.  If Ike Aether'd, then Therion grabs Legion Dagger for an evade setup and uses Shackle Weapon.  Therion will have to survive two rounds of debuffed Ike offense, but that should be doable, especially with the debuff.  Therion then blows Ike up on turn 3 after turn 2 Armor Corrosive, but loses all his BP and took some Ike hits.  Given the initiative reset, it's not over, though.  Therion can debuff Lyn before she goes, and hope to at least pull off a boosted HP Thief to wound her on his way down.  So we are either in a scenario where Morgana is facing a wounded Lyn (best for FE heroes) or a no-BP Therion is facing Ephraim.  And...  I think that Morgana has some play here vs. Ephraim?  Eph needs to go for Killer Lance one-shots I think.  Morgana's plan is to debuff Eph's accuracy, heal on hits, and use wind magic or recasting Masukunda on dodges.  Although I guess FE8 is a very accurate game and if you see Eph as hitting through Masakunda a lot, he can just hope to hit enough times in a row that Morgana runs out of MP from constant early healing or is forced to gamble on casting Masakunda while injured.  Hmm.  Morgana's game is definitely much, much easier if Therion survives to hurt Eph a little at the start and/or debuff him.  (Side note: I definitely don't respect gun status any more in P5 for those wondering why I don't mention that.)

Close stuff.  I am inclined to kneejerk for the Thieves just because the scenario of Fatal Slash ID + Ike not getting turn 1 Aether seems likely, and that should be a solid win for the Thieves, but it gets interesting if that doesn't happen!

Team Speed Manip: Fie (Cold Steel) / Arnaud / Tidus vs Team Fliers: Nina (Breath of Fire 4), Sumia (FE Awakening), Rose (Legend of Dragoon)
I'm gonna kneejerk the other way.  Agree with Random that Nina is pretty key to Team Fliers here, but I'm kind of inclined to be a tad harsh on Fie here since she was nom'd as a High Heavy and I want to say she probably makes Godlike with enough Delay hype?  Even if Nina doesn't immune Delay outright, I'd be willing to spot her the kind of Delay resistance seen on powerful bosses, which makes Fie's game a lot less reliable.  (Also, Sumia will surely want her Dark Flier form here if allowed for all that she's probably dead weight anyway, but Rose should be able to handle Tidus if it comes down to those two somehow.)

Team Sexy Beasts: Rei (BoF3), Nikki (MK), Kevin (SD3) vs Team ...: Crono (CT), Luminary (DQ11), Freyjadour (Suiko V)

Lightweight division -

Team Servants: Gremio (S1), Brey/Borya (DQ4), Jakob (FE Fates) vs Team C-tier ninjas: Akahgi (Suiko 4), Frank (SH3), Sheena (ToS)
I can be convinced otherwise, but I am inclined to kneejerk Ninjas here.  Just the servants aren't great.  Gremio is an okay Light slugger, maybe, but Brey dies too fast and Jakob's mage-spoiling doesn't really help here.

Team Mostly Harmless Dancers: Primrose (8PT), Dancer (FFT), Azura (FE Fates) vs Team Palmer: Olivier (WA3) / Linny (FM3) / Palmer
Yikes.  Palmer hype?  I guess he can tank his way through this after all, didn't think the Dancer damage was THAT pathetic.

Team Kitteh: Purugly (Pkmn) / Daena (LoM) / Mao vs Team Isekai: Aurora (Child of Light), Frederick (Eternal Sonata), Rabbid Peach (Mario+Rabbids)
This is admittedly a STRONG kneejerk since there's some real obscura in here, but...  it seems like Kitteh's best shot are Swagger strats and hope Confusion kicks in a lot.  Kinda outdamaged otherwise.  But this is very provisional.

Team Cats & Frogs Living Together: Cray (Breath of Fire 4), Lethe (FE9), Frog (CT) vs Team Superaielman: Kain / Noel / Nergal
Analysis for later, but I don't think Frog can handle Nergal, exactly the kind of opponent Frog doesn't want to face.  So Lethe really needs to make it to the Nergal fight.  Good thing Noel is pretty much dead weight.  So probably Cats & Frogs?
EDIT: Eh, I think Random has it.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2023, 12:07:56 AM by SnowFire »

Random Consonant

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Re: King of RPGDL Round 1: Underway
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2023, 06:09:24 AM »
Heavyweight division -

Team SMASH: Geno / Alexia / Zerase vs Team Fellowship of the Ring: Athos / Rufus (VP2) / Geddoe

No VP2 but going by Elf's statblocker omnibus collection Rufus can only block ID under an interpretation I'm not sure I'd be likely to take?  That and the fact that Geddoe can't beat out a Whirl with anything he does means Geno sweeps.  If Rufus is seen as blocking instant death then I presume this becomes more interesting but not in a way I feel comfortable examining.

Team Surprisingly Deadly Thieves: Eric (DQ11), Therion (8PT), Morgana (P5) vs Team FE Heroes: Ike, Lyn, Ephraim

Pass.  This probably wants a DQ11 stat topic that actually takes people at the end of part 2.

Team Speed Manip: Fie (Cold Steel) / Arnaud / Tidus vs Team Fliers: Nina (Breath of Fire 4), Sumia (FE Awakening), Rose (Legend of Dragoon)

Fie tends to run some problems against the status immune as her own offense isn't really good enough to blitz so the question to me here is 1) does the delay game work against Nina at all and 2) if it does, then how well.  If it doesn't, Fie's sunk, and if Nina can get turns even if it does, then that's a serious risk of a timeout.  That said a timeout there is probably fine for Speed Manip?  Physical FE PC vs. Arnaud isn't a story that ends well for the physical FE PC and I don't think there's an interpretation that I'd care to take that sees Rose handling both him AND Tidus, so the biggest problem for Speed Manip then is if Fie just straight up loses and that one may well run into LoD starting SP interpretations.  That all said my personal answer the the inital question is yes, it probably does since delay is something so rarely immuned in ToCS in comparison to every other status and even statdowns so ultimately I have to conclude that on the balance of interps the match is theirs.

Team Sexy Beasts: Rei (BoF3), Nikki (MK), Kevin (SD3) vs Team ...: Crono (CT), Luminary (DQ11), Freyjadour (Suiko V)

Probably another one that wants a part 2 DQ11 stat topic.

Lightweight division -

Team Servants: Gremio (S1), Brey/Borya (DQ4), Jakob (FE Fates) vs Team C-tier ninjas: Akahgi (Suiko 4), Frank (SH3), Sheena (ToS)

Team Mostly Harmless Dancers: Primrose (8PT), Dancer (FFT), Azura (FE Fates) vs Team Palmer: Olivier (WA3) / Linny (FM3) / Palmer

Olivier is useless unless you don't scale down his "gimmick" in a duel, as two Moonlight Waltzes will make him explode.  Primrose will be coming out of this poisoned and likely diseased however so OLIVIER SPOILS THE HP RECOVERY.

Who the fuck was Linny again *stat topics* oh good missiles without a backpack and trash accuracy, and while Primrose is probably gonna go down to poizn Linny can't just wait for that to happen or else he gets blown up, honestly probably would anyways, BP sounds like it does carry over and that implies horrible things in this context.  Can't say that this matters much here though, FFT Dancer probably just would straight outslug even if Linny were at full HP and that's sad.

With all that said however... even if Primrose does pull it out she won't be doing much against Palmer with no BP left to the point where I doubt she even dents the heal, might eat up two of Palmer's ten shots but considering Azura and Dancer won't need more than three that part's academic.  What isn't academic though is that a notable amount of attacks are going to miss Palmer thanks to dat evade.  The remaining two will get a total of 9 attacks in before going down (thanks Azura attack speed!) however either four or five of those will miss.  So going off of the available numbers and my own boss scaling (which to be clear benefits the dancers) if half of Azura's attacks land she takes off a bit under 70% of Palmer's HP.  Can Dancer make up the remainder with two attacks after factoring the heal?  Looks like just barely no.

(okay yes Dancer does have MP damage but scaling MP damage gives me a headache to begin with and I'm way too lazy to figure out where Palmer's should be)

good god i can't believe that stupid wa3 boss actually made a difference here, palmer wins because primrose caught covid.  THANKS DISEASE.

Team Kitteh: Purugly (Pkmn) / Daena (LoM) / Mao vs Team Isekai: Aurora (Child of Light), Frederick (Eternal Sonata), Rabbid Peach (Mario+Rabbids)

Team Cats & Frogs Living Together: Cray (Breath of Fire 4), Lethe (FE9), Frog (CT) vs Team Superaielman: Kain / Noel / Nergal

I think this is Cats & Frogs on a kneejerk?  Kain doesn't really need to stare down a 15% counter chance against people he 10HKOs and neither the speed split or Kain's durability are good enough to make up for that, surely Cray has the room to buff a bit which would make the task of heal locking Noel so that Frog doesn't have to be the only one to fight Nergal easy to accomplish.

That said if by some strange circumstance it does come to Lethe vs Noel that's... kind of a trainwreck actually?  Lethe doesn't double average turnspeed so her damage there is too poor to actually pressure (and I really hope we're not hyping crit rates in FE9) and while Noel only has 21 casts of Fairy Heal if he uses nothing else and uh... laguz only stay transformed for a few turns so yeah that match is gonna end in a timeout at best if it comes to that.  But I really doubt it does so it comes down to whether Nergal's defense slows things down enough and meh, not buying into that when blind parking strats will give Frog a pretty nasty Frog Squash to use as a finisher.

others later i guess
« Last Edit: February 23, 2023, 10:28:06 PM by Random Consonant »

DragonKnight Zero

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Re: King of RPGDL Round 1: Underway
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2023, 04:55:17 AM »
Heavyweight

Team Sexy Beasts: Rei (BoF3), Nikki (MK), Kevin (SD3) vs Team ...: Crono (CT), Luminary (DQ11), Freyjadour (Suiko V)

  Did a lot of stat topic digging to work out how this would play out.  Crono beats Rei, the question is by how much.  He's right on the edge of two-shotting Rei with Luminaire and will be faster with Swallow.  Red Katana probably pushes up his magic just enough for a two Luminaire kill though that leaves him losing the speed race with Nikki.  Nikki beats Crono, the question is how much damage she takes doing so.  Luminary beats Nikki unless she lands instant death.  If it gets to Luminary vs Kevin, the sleep magic messes with Kevin's game badly.  Kevin's durability and resources in a light class may keep him alive but Luminary can just stall for a timeout and win that way.  Heavily favors the silent mains but Luminary interp is too much of a headache for me to call it.  Freyjadour has no answer to Warrior Monk Kevin if he cannot blitz past the healing.  EDIT: Going to call it in favor of the beasts as DQ11 interp is headache-inducing and this gets them out faster.

Lightweight

Team Mostly Harmless Dancers: Primrose (8PT), Dancer (FFT), Azura (FE Fates) vs Team Palmer: Olivier (WA3) / Linny (FM3) / Palmer

  Piggybacking of Random's analysis but mine diverges in one significant way.  FFT Dancer is going for Witch Hunt and hopefully knock off enough of Palmer's MP so that he doesn't have enough for the killing shot to Azura.  Witch Hunt numbers with Power Sleeve (and Thief Hat to start earlier.

Base: 15 MP damage
1 A Save: 17 MP damage
2 A Saves: 18 MP damage

Dancer will act first and will probably get off 2 Witch Hunts between each of Palmer's attacks.  A Save will generally trigger at least once so that's 66-68 FFT MP damage.  Comes down to how one scales Palmer's MP.  FFT Dancer needs to take off 65 of Palmer's 240 MP to score a win for team dancer.  She does manage it if Palmer's MP pool is treated as average.  If that's the case, this could be the first matchup in DL history where Witch Hunt is relevant.

  So if it seems team dancer takes it, why did I still vote for team Palmer.  Because it's funny.  (and it does take a lot of favorable judgment calls for the dancers  But mostly because it's funny)

« Last Edit: February 27, 2023, 04:51:56 AM by DragonKnight Zero »

DragonKnight Zero

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Re: King of RPGDL Round 1: Underway
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2023, 04:20:18 AM »
Results for round 1:

Heavyweight division -

Team SMASH: Geno / Alexia / Zerase vs Team Fellowship of the Ring: Athos / Rufus (VP2) / Geddoe

Team Surprisingly Deadly Thieves: Eric (DQ11), Therion (8PT), Morgana (P5) vs Team FE Heroes: Ike, Lyn, Ephraim

Team Speed Manip: Fie (Cold Steel) / Arnaud / Tidus vs Team Fliers: Nina (Breath of Fire 4), Sumia (FE Awakening), Rose (Legend of Dragoon)  (tied, coinflip)

Team Sexy Beasts: Rei (BoF3), Nikki (MK), Kevin (SD3) vs Team ...: Crono (CT), Luminary (DQ11), Freyjadour (Suiko V)

Lightweight division -

Team Servants: Gremio (S1), Brey/Borya (DQ4), Jakob (FE Fates) vs Team C-tier ninjas: Akahgi (Suiko 4), Frank (SH3), Sheena (ToS) (no votes, coinflip)

Team Mostly Harmless Dancers: Primrose (8PT), Dancer (FFT), Azura (FE Fates) vs Team Palmer: Olivier (WA3) / Linny (FM3) / Palmer

Team Kitteh: Purugly (Pkmn) / Daena (LoM) / Mao vs Team Isekai: Aurora (Child of Light), Frederick (Eternal Sonata), Rabbid Peach (Mario+Rabbids)

Team Cats & Frogs Living Together: Cray (Breath of Fire 4), Lethe (FE9), Frog (CT) vs Team Superaielman: Kain / Noel / Nergal