Author Topic: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 12  (Read 4030 times)

Nephrite

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Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 12
« on: June 11, 2008, 04:36:07 PM »


"And so we begin a new cycle... Perhaps I should make things more difficult for you. Ha ha ha..."

Team Tonfa vs. Lynx, Harle and Gafgarion, 13-0
Team Captain K. vs. Lynx, Harle and Gafgarion, 14-0
Team Snowfire vs. Chaz and Rune, 7-5

Team Captain K. and Team Tonfa's matches

Floor 2a: Generic Battle Music (Earlygame)

"So you want to try something Generic, huh? Well, let's see what you think about this, then!"

Battle #6: Lorenta, Jelanda, Shiho, Mystina

Lorenta: "I think it's time we go, everyone."
Jelanda: "Hah! These fools think they can defeat us?"
Mystina: "Yes, let's show them just how powerful our magic really is!"

Battle #7: FF1 Knight, FFT Knight, PC Beatrix

FF1 Knight: "Well, you're not Fiend, but... I guess I'll stop you."
FFT Knight: "For the might of Ivalice!"
Beatrix: You two are under my command. Let's go.

Battle #8: FF1 Black Mage, FFT Wizard, Vivi

FF1 Black Mage: "Well, I guess if I have to bother with this..."
FFT Wizard: "Inscribe on the... something something. Whatever, Flare!"
Vivi: "I don't like this, but I have no choice!"

Battle #9: Lucius, Serra, Renault

Lucius: "We must persevere. Don't give in!"
Serra: "Whatever! They won't beat me!"
Renault: "Take it easy and we'll win, no rushing."

[/b]Boss Battle #2: Ramza and Vandalier Ash[/b]

Ramza: "You think just because you beat our army you can beat us? Hah! I'm a Beovule!"
Ash: "With the power granted to me by the gods I will strike you down! Let's go!"

Team Snowfire's Matches

Floor 5b: Something Completely Different (After Midgame)

"Hoh... you want to try something else? Fine, then. Let's see how you like this."

Battle #21: Lich Warren

Warren: I have found the power of the undead and now... I shall show it to you.

Battle #22: Bow Lyn, Bow Lenneth and Bow Cecil

Lyn: I can defeat you, even without the Mani Katti!
Lenneth: It shall be engraved upon your soul...
Cecil: Even without my sword, I can defeat you.

Battle #23: FFT Cloud and LW Argath

Cloud: Uh... this is weird... Either way, I'll defeat you all.
Argath: HA HA HA! YOU CAN'T DEFEAT THE MIGHTY POWER OF ARGATH!!!

Battle #24: VP2 Brahms and VP2 Hrist

Hrist: Hah... you foolish mortals, I will show you the divine power of the Valkyries.
Brahms: As much as I loathe to fight on your side... just this once!

Boss Battle #5: Lufia 3 Gades and PC Fou-lu

Gades: The power of destruction... will DESTROY YOU!
Fou-lu: I was woken up... for this?
Team vs. Lich Warren
Team vs. Bow Lyn, Bow Lenneth and Bow Cecil
Team vs. FFT Cloud and FFT:LW Argath
Team vs. VP2 Brahms and VP2 Hrist
*Full Heal
Team vs. Lufia 3 Gades and PC Fou-Lu

Team Tonfa | Cloud, Chemist, Aika, FFX-2 Songstress
[Floor 2a]
[Materia: Cover (M), Revive]
Team Tonfa vs. Lorenta, Jelanda, Shiho, Mystina
Team Tonfa vs. FF1 Knight, FFT Knight, PC Beatrix
Team Tonfa vs. FF1 Black Mage, FFT Wizard, Vivi
Team Tonfa vs. Lucius, Serra, Renault and Moulder
Team Tonfa vs. Ramza and Vandalier Ash

Team Captain K. | Kyogre, Gau, FF5 Redmage, Marcus, Mint
[Floor 2a]
Team Captain K. vs. Lorenta, Jelanda, Shiho, Mystina
Team Captain K. vs. FF1 Knight, FFT Knight, PC Beatrix
Team Captain K. vs. FF1 Black Mage, FFT Wizard, Vivi
Team Captain K. vs. Lucius, Serra, Renault and Moulder
Team Captain K. vs. Ramza and Vandalier Ash

Team Snowfire | Benjamin, Alex, Nash, Mia, Nall
[Floor 5b]
Team Snowfire vs. Lich Warren
Team Snowfire vs. Bow Lyn, Bow Lenneth and Bow Cecil
Team Snowfire vs. FFT Cloud and FFT:LW Argath
Team Snowfire vs. VP2 Brahms and VP2 Hrist
*Full Heal
Team Snowfire vs. Lufia 3 Gades and PC Fou-Lu

*Hint, click on the names of the more obscure characters!


superaielman

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 12
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2008, 05:11:08 PM »
Team Snowfire vs. Lich Warren- Lich inflicts some pain that Benjamin heals and then dies horribly.
Team Snowfire vs. Bow Lyn, Bow Lenneth and Bow Cecil- Focus on killing Cecil, outlast Lyn/Lenneth.
Team Snowfire vs. FFT Cloud and FFT:LW Argath- Cloud FTs Alex, Argath begins working on Alex's MP. I don't think they escape this battle with Alex having full MP.
Team Snowfire vs. VP2 Brahms and VP2 Hrist- Brahms can't be statused buuuuut... I don't think it matters. Ice Shell Ben, outlast.
*Full Heal
Team Snowfire vs. Lufia 3 Gades and PC Fou-Lu- I don't think the team can do much about Curse offhand. Between Fou's MT and Curse they're killing a person a round, and the team doesn't have enough offense to blitz either fighter.



Team Tonfa | Cloud, Chemist, Aika, FFX-2 Songstress

Team Tonfa vs. Lorenta, Jelanda, Shiho, Mystina- Silence dance is early isn't it?
Team Tonfa vs. FF1 Knight, FFT Knight, PC Beatrix- Mmm. Bea goes first and... I don't know what she does. She can kill any one person, I donno who. Thinking Cloud's the best bet, FFT Chemist's healing is generally shit. She Holies him, scoring a KO. Aika spirits, as her physical is beyond useless even this early. Songstress.. Blind dances I think? Takes the sting off of Knight's physical. Chemist tosses a Phoenix Down on Cloud. I don't think Cloud beats Knight to a turn offhand, doesn't really matter if he does. We'll assume he does. Cloud attacks Beatrix. FF1 Knight takes a swing at Chemist, misses. FFT Knight finishes off Cloud again. Beatrix blows her last Holy to finish off Chemist. If Songstress used Silence song, Shock+FF1 Knight's physical finishes off Chemist anyway. And the team is dead at this point. Damn. This team only has one source of offense early and it's meh (Cloud), and Aika is complete dead weight until 2 SP. Let's assume they get to the boss though.
Team Tonfa vs. FF1 Black Mage, FFT Wizard, Vivi
Team Tonfa vs. Lucius, Serra, Renault and Moulder
Team Tonfa vs. Ramza and Vandalier Ash- The team's source of damage: Short range physicals. Ramza can cure Blind. This will only end well! Mad Book on Cloud takes him out early (Chemist doesn't have Remedy at this point, I don't think. ), Aika can't do anything, Songstress can only inflict annoyance statuses. Not enough. Silencing Ash helps a bit but not enough (Does silencing even effect Ash?), his physical's just too good.


Team Captain K. | Kyogre, Gau, FF5 Redmage, Marcus, Mint
[Floor 2a]
Team Captain K vs. Lorenta, Jelanda, Shiho, Mystina- Kyogre and Marcus each overkill a mage.
Team Captain K. vs. FF1 Knight, FFT Knight, PC Beatrix- Bea can't OHKO Kyogre with Holy, and she needs to. So she targets red mage I think? Bleh. Even assuming she scores a kill, I don't think it hurts the team much.
Team Captain K. vs. FF1 Black Mage, FFT Wizard, Vivi- Kyo smite puny FFT Wizard. Marcus smites even punier FF1 Wizard. Vivi's status isn't good enough to carry the day here.
Team Captain K. vs. Lucius, Serra, Renault and Moulder- Usual score here. Marcus smites.
Team Captain K. vs. Ramza and Vandalier Ash- I don't think Ash has a ghost of a chance of surviving Kyogre's damage.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2008, 06:53:06 PM by superaielman »
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
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<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

SnowFire

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 12
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2008, 06:29:19 PM »
Mm.  Floor 5, also known as the floor that Mia starts actually being useful.  If the Wind Cane is questionable on Floor 4, it should hopefully clearly be legit on floor 5.  Along with Mia knowing Power Drive by now.

Team Snowfire | Benjamin, Alex, Nash, Mia, Nall
[Floor 5b]
Team Snowfire vs. Lich Warren - Ben casts White on the slow, frail lich.
Team Snowfire vs. Bow Lyn, Bow Lenneth and Bow Cecil - This....  hmm.  Does the Refinflech slow Lyn down at all?  Anyway, my Lyn respect is pretty high and she still probably doubles Alex & Ben, at least.  Nash statuses out Lenneth and probably Cecil as well...  but yeah, if Lyn can't deal with Ben, she's not winning this fight by herself, and Ice Shell means that Ben will survive even criticals.  Cecil is unnaturally tanky in the back row but can still be dealt with, and I think Cover only works on basic physicals / when Cecil isn't statused anyway.
Team Snowfire vs. FFT Cloud and FFT:LW Argath - Nash statuses out Cloud.  Mia Power Drives Alex.  PD'ed Sword Dance + Ben Physical take out the average to below average speed Argath who never gets a turn.  Heal up from the previous fight while Cloud is statused.  (Random comment: Argath's lack of status resistance means that for humiliation, Ben could Cat Claw him...  but safer just to take the faster damage here.).
Team Snowfire vs. VP2 Brahms and VP2 Hrist - PC Hrist gets statused by Nash; Boss Hrist is not a serious threat
until 50% HP with Soul Crushes.  So this is basically a team vs. Brahms, and while Brahms is scary, he's not that scary.  He eats a Thunderbolt, Ben's White, Power Drived Sword Dances, etc.
*Full Heal
Team Snowfire vs. Lufia 3 Gades and PC Fou-Lu - Kill Gades on the first turn.  Ben's White is Ben's best damage at this point in the game and hits a weakness.  The Power Drived Alex Sword Dance coming next seals the deal.  Gades' HP isn't as LOL as I thought at first (he's only fought with 4 characters, not the full 9, apparently), but it's still not spectacular, PCs walk in with fully charged IP bars I believe (at least they did on the YouTube video I found) for a big burst of damage at the start of the fight, and he's slow.  PC Fou-Lu...  inflicts Dark Wave on turn 2, I guess?  But PC Fou-Lu's damage is probably somewhat less scary when compared to endgame PCs.  And Nash probably zaps Fou-Lu with Thunderbolt anyway so he's not quite at full HP.  Fou is unpleasant, but Alex & Ben can still handle him.

Captain K. gets a pass due to Marcus going first and doubling anyone who's a problem.  I suspect that Mint & Marcus might well be able to solo the floor.

Tonfa

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 12
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2008, 08:51:48 PM »
Dances available: Blind, Silence, Slow, Sleep.

[Floor 2a]
[Materia: Cover (M), Revive]
Team Tonfa vs. Lorenta, Jelanda, Shiho, Mystina: Hay guys, Sleep. (Due to the nature of dance sleep persists when hit)
Team Tonfa vs. FF1 Knight, FFT Knight, PC Beatrix: Beatrix was ruled to be scaled to endgame and thus fails to OHKO anything -if- she even goes first. Cloud has mastered Cover and some revival. Sleep cleans house, don't know if FFT generics get access to blockers but Knight alone can't do much anyway.
Team Tonfa vs. FF1 Black Mage, FFT Wizard, Vivi: None of these guys are fast. Silence, Sleep, whatever. Alternatively Delta Shield if it's this early.
Team Tonfa vs. Lucius, Serra, Renault and Moulder: Silence. Or Sleep.
Team Tonfa vs. Ramza and Vandalier Ash: Sleep. Ramza can block it I guess but lol Ramza alone.

CAPTAIN!! passes, SnowFire fails.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2008, 08:33:53 PM by Tonfa »
<Niu> If I ever see that Langfadood, i'll strangle him on sight
<Gourry> What, for making the game three times better?
<Gourry> And playable, at that?
<Niu> that lose the whole point of of L2!!!

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 12
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2008, 09:59:07 PM »
Team Tonfa | Cloud, Chemist, Aika, FFX-2 Songstress
[Floor 2a]
[Materia: Cover (M), Revive]
Team Tonfa vs. Lorenta, Jelanda, Shiho, Mystina - Dancer goes before the mages and Silences. The end.
Team Tonfa vs. FF1 Knight, FFT Knight, PC Beatrix - Beatrix should go first, but she ain't OHKOing Dancer with her barely 2HKO damage level-scaled to endgame. And Cloud gets a durability bonus with Cover anyway, so Knight+Bea are unlikely to kill. Sleep makes enemies snore and things can be handled from here.
Team Tonfa vs. FF1 Black Mage, FFT Wizard, Vivi - What's that, FFT Wizard? You can't block Silence and Sleep at the same time and Dancer goes before all the enemies? Awwww.
Team Tonfa vs. Lucius, Serra, Renault and Moulder - Silence, the end.
Team Tonfa vs. Ramza and Vandalier Ash - lol ramza alone sounds like a good justification here. The only way this team dies in this floor is if you take the disc 2/3 Beatrix forms, methinks. Dancer being faster than most of the enemies with two good status dances learned is pretty brutal.

Team Captain K. | Kyogre, Gau, FF5 Redmage, Marcus, Mint
[Floor 2a]
Team Captain K. vs. Lorenta, Jelanda, Shiho, Mystina
Team Captain K. vs. FF1 Knight, FFT Knight, PC Beatrix
Team Captain K. vs. FF1 Black Mage, FFT Wizard, Vivi
Team Captain K. vs. Lucius, Serra, Renault and Moulder
Team Captain K. vs. Ramza and Vandalier Ash - I guess. The lack of MTness is troubling, but the earlygame offense is kinda cruel for now.

Team Snowfire | Benjamin, Alex, Nash, Mia, Nall
[Floor 5b]
Team Snowfire vs. Lich Warren - Lich Warren? Not really durable. Offense is great, but Alex and Benjamin should blow past it.
Team Snowfire vs. Bow Lyn, Bow Lenneth and Bow Cecil - I... think so. The threats here aren't too high.
Team Snowfire vs. FFT Cloud and FFT:LW Argath - Problem: Nash's threatening status to Cloud are turn two. Nash also doesn't have his best Thunder spell yet, and Cloud can block both ID and Sleep at the same time. So, Cloud gets a Finishing Touch off and probably does Ben or Alex in. This is troublesome, particularly so if they get petrified.
Team Snowfire vs. VP2 Brahms and VP2 Hrist - Hrist eats sleep, but Brahms may kill someone else. The team isn't in good shape, and may bite it here. Let's assume it doesn't, though.
*Full Heal
Team Snowfire vs. Lufia 3 Gades and PC Fou-Lu - PC Fou-Lu does bad things to the party, and L3 Gades is -very threatening- with the consistently high offense. Two people are dying every turn, and Ben cannot hope to keep up. Doesn't help that Fou is status-immune.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

SnowFire

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 12
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2008, 11:24:21 PM »
Re Jo'ou Ranbu on the Cloud fight: If Cloud blocks sleep, then Nash's alternate options still have a respectable 65%-70% hit rate or so.  Still, let's say Cloud gets lucky and dodges Nash's status.  Argath still dies turn 1 as planned...  and Cloud is likely getting statused anyway on turn 2.  Petrify on Ben is really the only scary thing here, and Cloud only has a 1/3 chance of pulling that off, and it requires Cloud escaping status himself.  Anyone else or any other status, and the end of the battle for Stop and Life in case of ID should take care of it.

Re the Gades / Fou-Lu fight: Yes, if they start getting turns, that's extremely scary...  but Fou-Lu is only dangerous on turn 2, and I strongly think Gades is eating a first round death here.  The only things that rival Ben's White for damage are Ben's Flare (which... isn't accessible yet) and Phoebe's White (...and Phoebe rejoining is on floor 6 so irrelevant anyway).  At this point in time, Phoebe would still be using Aero, and Ben's best damage is a near tie between Meteor & White.  Some back of the envelope calculations using the endgame stats would show White as being ~.5-.6 PCHP when ignoring inaccessible skills.  It's hitting a weakness, so make that .75-.9 PCHP damage.  Meanwhile, Mia's Power Drived Sword Dances are just mean, doing something like .8 PCHP damage at endgame (Is Mia's first Power Drive really better than Vigor?  Awesome, if so, and then the damage would be even *better*.). That's 1.55 -1.7 PCHP total, and I'd struggle to see Gades as more than 1.25 PCHP.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2008, 11:28:01 PM by SnowFire »

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 12
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2008, 12:17:02 AM »
Re Jo'ou Ranbu on the Cloud fight: If Cloud blocks sleep, then Nash's alternate options still have a respectable 65%-70% hit rate or so. 

Status needs to be at least -above- 70% hit rate for them to hit turn one to me. 65%-70% doesn't cut it. Unless Cloud's Faith is higher than I thought.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Pyro

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 12
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2008, 12:23:30 PM »
What the crispy ****? L3 Gades' HP is certainly better than 1.25x. http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=53.0

Votes later.

dude789

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 12
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2008, 12:51:41 PM »
Tonfa and Captain K. make it, Snowfire doesn't.

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 12
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2008, 05:51:41 PM »
What the crispy ****? L3 Gades' HP is certainly better than 1.25x. http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=53.0

Votes later.

Another point in his favor, yes. His HP under my scaling would be something roughly around 1.6x, and I think I'm rounding down a bit. Factoring in his physical defense, the figure raises to somewhere in the effective 2x PC HP area against physicals, which are... the damage type being hyped here. So, um, don't think a 2HKO here is very reasonable, which makes things uglier for the team. I'm not too inclined to give much credit to blitzing hype from a character in a two-person damage average anyway, Ben doesn't rape the averages himself and the relative damage can only go so high.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

SnowFire

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 12
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2008, 07:38:44 PM »
Cloud's Faith is apparently 65 which feels about average or maybe only mildly high.  Still not a matter of huge concern since again even if Cloud gets a turn, he only has a 1/3 chance of doing something bad.

Re Gades' HP: Cryo's listed damage average is approximately 150, so with 4 characters that'd be 600 damage a round.  2500/600 = ~4.16 round life expectancy with no healing, or 1.67 PCHP under a very literal scaling.  Now, I haven't played Lufia 3, so grain of salt.  However...  and Cryo, feel free to correct me...  I get the impression that the 150 average is *consistent* damage that can be cranked out.  The Youtube video I found ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GI5hXWsexg ) shows everyone entering the battle with full IPs and whipping out 400-600 damage attacks to start the fight.  This is worth a significant HP penalty to me akin to Grandia III bosses eating a "Use Drak's Orb at beginning of fight" penalty (well, at least for ones that aren't chained together with future boss fights, like Violetta perhaps).  I'm also not inclined to reward bosses for healers having bad damage (Seena pulling down the average?) nor punish them for healers having good damage (Zeromus & Rosa), and in the video, the fellow doesn't even give commands to Seena half the time and still seems to pull through just fine.  Now maybe he was overlevel or something, but these factors seem to me to imply that Gades doesn't get the 1.65 PCHP that would make his one-round death even borderline.  If he takes even a small penalty and has 1.5 PCHP or less, he still dies according to my figures.  (I will grant I didn't notice Gades' Defense; that means Power Drived Sword Dance will only be doing .65 PCHP.  Still, that's ~1.5 PCHP damage even factoring in defense.)

Jo'ou: *shrug* Except Ben's damage really is that good?  At this point in the game, if we want to use a straight-up party only 2 person average, I believe Ben's companion is Kaeli, whose attacks are pretty weak in comparison.  Then White would be doing even *more* damage.

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 12
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2008, 08:55:07 PM »
I
Jo'ou: *shrug* Except Ben's damage really is that good?  At this point in the game, if we want to use a straight-up party only 2 person average, I believe Ben's companion is Kaeli, whose attacks are pretty weak in comparison.  Then White would be doing even *more* damage.

Kaeli brings the average down while Ben brings it up. Let's say her damage is half of Ben's. Arbitrary numbers: 1000+500 = 1500. Divided by 2 = 750. Ben's damage then is an exact 2HKO to average -. That's not awesome in relativity. If her damage is one third? More arbitrary numbers: 1500 (Ben)+500 (Kaeli) = 2000/2 = 1000. Which is now a solidish 2HKO = 60% PC HP. Basically, for your numbers to truly make sense, Kaeli's damage has to be 1/3 of Ben's and below (which, quite frankly, feels a bit of a stretch). A two-person average can only go so far no matter how you slice it.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Pyro

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 12
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2008, 12:50:42 AM »
That damage average was for consistent IPs. Doublekick, Holy Attack, etc... You can only attack with 3 PCs a round in L3 <_< And that LPer nabbed the Gades equipment, which meant he was pretty overpowered for that fight (and had bad positioning, but thats neither here nor there). I felt that topic was pretty fair. If you want to see Frue Sinistral hype, go look at ID's version.

Same votes as Snow. Tonfa and the Cap'n pass. Snowfire... I'll think about more later. Depends somewhat on PC Fou.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 01:07:00 AM by Cryo »

Bardiche

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 12
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2008, 07:53:17 PM »
The only way I can see Tonfa lose is if somehow all the enemies miraculously avoid getting hit with any of the dancer's status ailments until she dies.

I... find that hard to believe.

Captain K rushes through.

Snowfire dies to Fou and Gades.

DjinnAndTonic

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 12
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2008, 04:32:36 AM »
Tonfa and Captain pass without issue.

Wow. That's rough, Snowfire. L3 Gades OR Fou-lu alone is pretty nasty. Together they're a bit more than this (or just about any other midgame-level) team can take.

I'm actually pretty hard-pressed to see what kind of team would pass these guys at this stage. It's midgame, so none of the earlygame smashers would really work... Maybe there's a status or something they're particularly vulnerable to?

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Pyro

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 12
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2008, 04:38:29 AM »
No idea how good PC Fou is, but L3 Gades isn't something a team should have to worry about. Curse is good enough but he's frail, not more durable than your average boss, and pretty darn slow.

Not sure Snowfire makes it to there, and I've no idea how good PC Fou is so I'll just abstain for now.

SnowFire

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 12
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2008, 07:16:55 AM »
I
Jo'ou: *shrug* Except Ben's damage really is that good?  At this point in the game, if we want to use a straight-up party only 2 person average, I believe Ben's companion is Kaeli, whose attacks are pretty weak in comparison.  Then White would be doing even *more* damage.

Kaeli brings the average down while Ben brings it up. Let's say her damage is half of Ben's. Arbitrary numbers: 1000+500 = 1500. Divided by 2 = 750. Ben's damage then is an exact 2HKO to average -. That's not awesome in relativity. If her damage is one third? More arbitrary numbers: 1500 (Ben)+500 (Kaeli) = 2000/2 = 1000. Which is now a solidish 2HKO = 60% PC HP. Basically, for your numbers to truly make sense, Kaeli's damage has to be 1/3 of Ben's and below (which, quite frankly, feels a bit of a stretch). A two-person average can only go so far no matter how you slice it.

Good, we agree.  Those numbers do square with mine.  White is hitting a Weakness, which is why .5-.6 PCHP damage is going up to .75 -.9 damage.

Anyway, for future reference, the endgame MQ damage numbers:

Ben (w/ Cat Claw): 1878, Meteor; 1608, White; (Ignored: 2148, Flare, inaccessible)
Kaeli: Aero: 814

The two person Ben-Kaeli average with Meteor & Aero has White doing .48 PC damage.  Less than what Ben might do with the general average, but still not bad at all.

In general: *shrug* Looks like I'm not getting the votes on this one, but I'm not making the numbers up.  If anyone wants to check, this was single Vigored Alex versus the standard endgame average (Nash doesn't have Thunderbolt yet pulling the average down a little, but it's earlier in the game so the spread is closer anyway, canceling out?), and Ben's White...  well, see above, I think that .5-.6 PCHP base is a pretty solid estimate (the reason for the lack of certainty is due to where Tristran's Second form's damage is, which I forget and isn't listed).

Djinn: I think this fight is pretty fair, especially with a full heal before it, at least without tons of Gades HP respect.  Curse + Dark Wave means that someone is guaranteed to die at the start of round 2 if Gades isn't dead (Ben immunes Poison, but Fou's MT Wave will still finish him anyway), but killing one person a round isn't so bad if you have two revivers and strong MT healing for a slower strategy.  And Gades lack of speed + (possibly not stellar HP?) means that a blitz strategy can also work here, though apparently that isn't being bought.  If Gades is seen to have buckets of HP, yeah, that means any blitzing team (especially one without Holy damage) probably has trouble on this fight.

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 12
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2008, 07:21:40 AM »
Flame, averages are just pretty lopsided at that point in Lunar, with Nash and Mia both sucking at damage more than they would at endgame, which just would work for Alex's benefit. On the other hand, he's already below average speed by then, and PC Fou-Lu can just kill Mia with her saddening durability (and, if she buffs to avoid death, assuming she -even goes first-, you can kiss one-turning Gades3 goodbye. Period. He only needs to Curse Ben or Alex) and... yeah. Doesn't even matter at that point, you need both alive and well and odds are you won't get that. You kinda need everything working well for you for the one-turning to work, and Fou-Lu puts a wrench on your overall strategy.

« Last Edit: June 16, 2008, 07:26:17 AM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 12
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2008, 07:44:57 AM »
Referring to the Cloud fight again, I assume?  Okay, let's assume Nash's Paralyze/whatever auto-fails and Cloud FTs Ben (Ben is just a better choice than Alex here, because once Cloud does get statused, Ben has Heal & Life if Alex was FTed).  If Ben gets Petrified, yes, I am screwed unless BDH also cures status, which I don't think it does.  If Ben gets stopped, nothing particularly bad happens as that'll wear off at the end of fight, everyone walks into Brahms/Hrist fully healed.  If Ben gets IDed, thanks to Nall, Ben just enters the Hrist/Brahms fight at 1 HP.  Vexing, but he just casts Cure on himself.  Secondly, VP2 Brahms' Bloody Curse isn't as over the top ridiculous as VP1's, and it's turn 2 anyway, meaning Mia has time to Ice Shell Ben here (twice if need be).  Even if Brahms gets lucky with Stun here, it's going to be an uphill climb for him.  In short: If Nash's status misses, I have a 1/3 chance of losing, a 1/3 chance of proceeding as normal to the Brahms/Hrist fight, and a 1/3 chance of having it be annoying and take longer due to having to heal / turtle more at the beginning.  This, of course, assumes you see Ben as above average speed (which I think is pretty solid, though apparently super doesn't, but yeah, I lose if Ben is below average speed.  Alex being mildly below average speed isn't so bad here.) and the team as winning Brahms/Hrist normally.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2008, 07:53:39 AM by SnowFire »

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 12
« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2008, 02:47:21 PM »
Passing all three.
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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 12
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2008, 03:57:22 PM »
I will be updating this tomorrow, so please get your votes in today!

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 12
« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2008, 04:11:28 PM »
Snowfire fails. Tonfa and Cap'n K pass. I'd provide more detail but I dun feel good.

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 12
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2008, 08:55:16 PM »
Team Tonfa | Cloud, Chemist, Aika, FFX-2 Songstress
[Floor 2a]
[Materia: Cover (M), Revive]
Team Tonfa vs. Lorenta, Jelanda, Shiho, Mystina - Dancer goes before the mages and Silences. The end.
Team Tonfa vs. FF1 Knight, FFT Knight, PC Beatrix - Beatrix should go first, but she ain't OHKOing Dancer with her barely 2HKO damage level-scaled to endgame. And Cloud gets a durability bonus with Cover anyway, so Knight+Bea are unlikely to kill. Sleep makes enemies snore and things can be handled from here.
Team Tonfa vs. FF1 Black Mage, FFT Wizard, Vivi - What's that, FFT Wizard? You can't block Silence and Sleep at the same time and Dancer goes before all the enemies? Awwww.
Team Tonfa vs. Lucius, Serra, Renault and Moulder - Silence, the end.
Team Tonfa vs. Ramza and Vandalier Ash - lol ramza alone sounds like a good justification here. The only way this team dies in this floor is if you take the disc 2/3 Beatrix forms, methinks. Dancer being faster than most of the enemies with two good status dances learned is pretty brutal.

Team Captain K. | Kyogre, Gau, FF5 Redmage, Marcus, Mint
[Floor 2a]
Team Captain K. vs. Lorenta, Jelanda, Shiho, Mystina
Team Captain K. vs. FF1 Knight, FFT Knight, PC Beatrix
Team Captain K. vs. FF1 Black Mage, FFT Wizard, Vivi
Team Captain K. vs. Lucius, Serra, Renault and Moulder
Team Captain K. vs. Ramza and Vandalier Ash - I guess. The lack of MTness is troubling, but the earlygame offense is kinda cruel for now.

Team Snowfire | Benjamin, Alex, Nash, Mia, Nall
[Floor 5b]
Team Snowfire vs. Lich Warren - Lich Warren? Not really durable. Offense is great, but Alex and Benjamin should blow past it.
Team Snowfire vs. Bow Lyn, Bow Lenneth and Bow Cecil - I... think so. The threats here aren't too high.
Team Snowfire vs. FFT Cloud and FFT:LW Argath - Problem: Nash's threatening status to Cloud are turn two. Nash also doesn't have his best Thunder spell yet, and Cloud can block both ID and Sleep at the same time. So, Cloud gets a Finishing Touch off and probably does Ben or Alex in. This is troublesome, particularly so if they get petrified.
Team Snowfire vs. VP2 Brahms and VP2 Hrist - Hrist eats sleep, but Brahms may kill someone else. The team isn't in good shape, and may bite it here. Let's assume it doesn't, though.
*Full Heal
Team Snowfire vs. Lufia 3 Gades and PC Fou-Lu - PC Fou-Lu does bad things to the party, and L3 Gades is -very threatening- with the consistently high offense. Two people are dying every turn, and Ben cannot hope to keep up. Doesn't help that Fou is status-immune.
* Infinite_Ko_Loop is now known as Ko-CidisnotaPrincess
<Nephrite> That is depressing.
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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 12
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2008, 12:22:37 AM »
For my next floor, I choose "All ST is MT".