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Author Topic: GAME START Anonymous Mafia  (Read 29080 times)

The White Witch

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Re: GAME START Anonymous Mafia
« Reply #150 on: June 01, 2008, 09:14:02 PM »
And just so nobody gets uppity about my not including him:

Cid:
- Has had high presence and solid commentary all game.  Evaluates issues and takes stances.  Can't see anything really Borgy about him.  Meter <10%.

Sherlock Holmes

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Re: GAME START Anonymous Mafia
« Reply #151 on: June 01, 2008, 10:05:37 PM »
First. Worf, thanks for finally talking about me in more than a pair of sentences at a time. I've been slacking off this game, I can't lie about hat. Part of it is real-life responsibilities and events limiting my time, part of it is what I said before - I'm not as motivated to sit down and sift through the topic when it feels futile. What to make of that is your choice; I can't deny that the weaknesses are there, but I'm trying to do better now that I've got some focus.

Cid:
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Part of the case against him now seems to come down to him looking %#@$#& scummy for not helping to lynch townies, and this is just $#%$#& baffling to me.

Well...

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I'm not saying that Worf's not voting for Megatron or Sparrow makes him look bad. I'm saying the emphasis he places on it in his defense, as if it was something scum would never ever do, does.

T:

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I'm not exactly sure what you're sayin' with this:


Quote from: Sherlock Holmes on Today at 03:44:23 AM
On day 1, Yoda's "Fixation" on joke votes. I agree with what T said that Yoda was drawing a bright line between "joke vote phase" and "non-joke-vote phase" where none can clearly exist, but there's more to the idea than just "you joke-voted too late." It looks a lot like using a joke vote to dodge discussion when you joke-vote late and then -don't take part in the actual discussion-, which is what Megatron did for a good part of Day 1.


Can you clarify?

Part of Worf's case is that Yoda attacked Megatron for jokevoting late. I agree that what is and isn't "late" is a matter of opinion, but he also jokevoted instead of talking about matters of substance under debate, which seems worth calling someone out over.

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The rest of the post makes me look at Holmes kind of sideways 'cause the guy's basically sayin' what I'm sayin'. To have someone agree that completely with me is more'n a little weird. Of course I think I'm right, so I have to say "good man" for bein' on the same page as me. However, it still makes me wonder.

This feels like damning with faint praise, but they're pretty obvious points to build on. He pulled out a circular argument about what actions scum would take in any given situation and stuck to it, and then made what looked to me like a clear...well, lie, about your vote on Megatron. Speaking of which:

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Holmes and T are correct in asserting that T made a case on Megatron earlier.  I did not mean to imply that he had not, but not restating it and saying he wanted a competing majority against Yoda is what does not sit well with me, given my high suspicions of Yoda. 

Clarify this, please. First off, I still don't see why not restating the argument does anything other than force other players to use their memories a bit. Second, on "wanting a competing majority" as a bad thing - would you be happier if he'd suddenly abandoned the position he'd held on Yoda up to that time, contradicting his earlier arguments in the process? If somebody talks a decent amount about how they suspect Player X and don't think Player Y is all that bad, and then votes for Y over X, that is suspicious even if I agree with their new position.

The White Witch

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Re: GAME START Anonymous Mafia
« Reply #152 on: June 01, 2008, 11:13:45 PM »
If somebody talks a decent amount about how they suspect Player X and don't think Player Y is all that bad, and then votes for X over Y saying not that they believe X is scummy but that they want a majority against Y, ie their motivation is more to see Y not get lynched, that is Borgy to me.

I do not think the arguments about possible Borg behavior are circular, rather I think it is obvious that they are not, but we have been through that already.

Sherlock Holmes

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Re: GAME START Anonymous Mafia
« Reply #153 on: June 01, 2008, 11:46:37 PM »
But...if you think Y is probably town, shouldn't you try to keep them(self) alive? Especially in a last-minute scramble like that one, where there's no time to develop an argument in depth, voting for the other leading candidate seems like the best way to do that. Plus, I repeat, he had said he believed Megatron was scummy, and never recanted the argument - he just didn't go over it again in that post. The only way I see that statement as scummy is if you're painting it as a subliminal scumtell, expressing his true motives in the debate, instead of the plain meaning of "I think it's a bad move to lynch Y, so I'm going to try lynch somebody worse instead," followed doing exactly that by voting for someone he had repeatedly expressed suspicion of in the past.

The White Witch

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Re: GAME START Anonymous Mafia
« Reply #154 on: June 02, 2008, 12:18:51 AM »
The only way I see that statement as scummy is if you're painting it as a subliminal scumtell, expressing his true motives in the debate, instead of the plain meaning of "I think it's a bad move to lynch Y, so I'm going to try lynch somebody worse instead," followed doing exactly that by voting for someone he had repeatedly expressed suspicion of in the past.

Precisely.  I am glad you see.  If he had said "Let's lynch Megatron, I still think he's scummier" I would have no problem with it.  The use of the phrase "competing majority" ticks my Borg-o-meter and does not sound like wording a townie would use.  Were it even this alone, I might have ignored it, but combined with his abortive talk about what we could learn today from Sparrow being alive or dead, and how it contrasts with his earlier tone, it looks like a Borg slipping under pressure (where T as a townie who found Sparrow and Megatron scummy and had no guarantee of Yoda's alignment would have no reason to worry).

Mr. Miyagi

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Re: GAME START Anonymous Mafia
« Reply #155 on: June 02, 2008, 12:44:53 AM »
Worf. OMGUS.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

I admitted I did not consider a facet of the argument. I did admit this. I then demonstrated how it did not matter, because it inevitably descends back into more Princess Bride terminology, putting us back to square one.

I've found repeatedly that the best way to find to scum is to scrutinize their methods of argumentation. Failing to acknowledge counter-arguments, using hyperbolic argumentation, twisting and contorting argumentation and generally subverting the process of argumentation. You've done all of these. I've called you on them. And then you fall back under the protective banner of OMGUS.

OMGUS relies on someone making a counter-vote and attacking strictly based on the fact that you were voted on by someone. OMGUS relies on doing the exact opposite of what I've done. I've found legitimate fault with your argument. I have been suspicious of you because of the content of your argumentation against me, which I've felt is distinctly shoddy. My problem is not with you voting on me, but the reasoning behind your votes. It is the very foundation of Mafia. I feel there is a disjunct between the reality of the game and your presentation of the game. Ultimately, this is what scum would aim for. I see no reason for you to have argued the way you would have if you were town.

So. Hearing the arguments and the like, I'm not seeing anything that is going to dissuade me from thinking you are scum. Nothing. So. With other voices weighing in, I no longer feel there is anything to dissuade me from addressing this. If I'm right, we get one more clue to identify the last scum. If not, then the game is over.

##Vote: Worf

Sherlock Holmes

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Re: GAME START Anonymous Mafia
« Reply #156 on: June 02, 2008, 12:49:24 AM »
##Vote Worf

Cid Highwind

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Re: GAME START Anonymous Mafia
« Reply #157 on: June 02, 2008, 12:49:37 AM »
Thank you for flying Highwind #$@%$#& Airlines. We hope you enjoy the rest of your flight after we punt you from the cargo bay into the endless abyss.

##Vote: Worf

SCUMHAMMER, STOP %#$@#@ TALKING.

Laggy

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Re: GAME START Anonymous Mafia
« Reply #158 on: June 02, 2008, 03:25:03 AM »
The Jedi Master advanced upon the Klingon, green lightsaber ignited and held in hand.

"Follower of justice, you are not. The scent of the dark side, it pervades you. Slay you, I must!"

Worf's bared teeth, a battle fury and a bat'leth were all that were needed to respond to the challenge as the two clashed in an epic duel... or would have, until a large burly gold-encumbered man got in their way.

"I pity you fools! Don't start with this nonsense. Mr. T says we gotta have a plan, and--"

His tirade was cut short by the windup sound of a Borg cannon and he himself was cut short seconds later by the discharge of plasma.

Advancing hawkishly, Cid Highwind threw out his coat to reveal himself in gleaming metallic armor, red lightsaber in hand, and an ominously pale face.

"The Undead Dark Lord Queen of the Sith Collective demands your attention," Sherlock Holmes murmured with an impish gleam in his eye. He tossed his pipe to the floor, which transformed into a giant violin that he now held menacingly. "He had you wrapped around his fingers the whole time, of course. For him, it is but a simple - Zvarri!" Eye gleam. "And the truth he beheld." With a cackling chuckle, he threw off his wig as well, revealing himself as the dastardly so-called ace detective, Luke Atmey.

"It's been fun. But now, it all ends." Rubbing his monocle delicately and then pressing it against his eye, a superlaser blasted out and incinerated the remaining three hapless victims.


Worf, Ghost (TOWN), has been lynched!
Yoda, Vanilla Townie (TOWN), and Mr. T (Vanilla Townie, TOWN) was killed in the aftergame!

Cid Highwind, Vanilla Scum (SCUM), and Sherlock Holmes, Rolecop (SCUM), have won the game!
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Laggy

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Re: GAME START Anonymous Mafia
« Reply #159 on: June 02, 2008, 03:26:28 AM »
Night 1 Actions
Sherlock: Investigate Jack
Cid: Kill Gollum
Gollum: nothing
Jack: Protect Sherlock

Night 2 Actions
Sherlock: Kill Jack
Jack: Protect Cid

Yes, Jack protected ONLY THE TWO SCUM.

Just for fun I had everyone try to guess who was who after the game ended.

Yoda: 0/7 (100% anonymous)
Megatron: 0/7 (100% anonymous)
Mr. T: 0/7 (100% anonymous. Everyone unanimously thought he was Otter.)
Cid: 0/6 (100% anonymous)
Jack Sparrow: 0/4 (100% anonymous)
Gollum: 1/7 (86% anonymous)
Holmes: 3/5 (40% anonymous)
Worf: 6/6 (0% anonymous. Almost as epic as Rat.)
Franziska von Karma: 7/7!!! (0% anonymous, epitome of failure)

In summary: People are more anonymous than you'd think! With a few notable exceptions.

And now, the CAST! Round of applause to all who participated!

Team Town
Worf - aka Alex - Ghost
Francisca von Karma - aka Rat - Vanilla Townie
Gollum - aka Excal - One-shot Vigilante
Jack Sparrow - aka Ciato - Doctor (can't protect same target twice in a row)
Mr. T - aka Lady Door - Vanilla Townie
Yoda - aka Andrew - Vanilla Townie
Megatron - aka Soppy - Vanilla Townie

Team Scum
Cid Highwind - aka El Cid - Scum
Sherlock Holmes - aka Shale - Scum Rolecop
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Carthrat

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Re: GAME START Anonymous Mafia
« Reply #160 on: June 02, 2008, 03:36:30 AM »
Belated apologies to the entire town. :(.
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Lady Door

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Re: GAME START Anonymous Mafia
« Reply #161 on: June 02, 2008, 03:52:44 AM »
I was going to say something, I know I was.

But then I read "Cid Highwind - aka El Cid -"

And I kind of lost track of what I was thinking. <_< Did you plan that?

(And to be fair, I knew Andrew was Yoda. But it kinda became obvious after a short period since... y'know... he sits across the room from me most of the day.)

Poor Rat. I think that loss hurt an awful lot.
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Sierra

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Re: GAME START Anonymous Mafia
« Reply #162 on: June 02, 2008, 03:57:55 AM »
Laggy insists that it was random, Lady Door. The rest of us remain skeptical.

And, I dislike gloating, but I must take this opportunity to say how awesome it is to not fail horribly at Mafia for once. I think this is probably the first game I've played where I did not actively hinder my team with my presence. So yay to that. Sorta. Pretty happy with how the game went, obviously!

Shale

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Re: GAME START Anonymous Mafia
« Reply #163 on: June 02, 2008, 03:58:02 AM »
Laggy claims both Cid playing Cid and Holmes drawing an investigator role were totally random. I'm not convinced.

And you seriously sounded exactly like Otter. Was that deliberate?
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superaielman

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Re: GAME START Anonymous Mafia
« Reply #164 on: June 02, 2008, 03:59:18 AM »
Sherlock I had pegged as Shale. El Cid as Cid though? No clue. That was a most excellent game from Cid, he really dominated. Town had no chance at outing him as it stood.
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EvilTom

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Re: GAME START Anonymous Mafia
« Reply #165 on: June 02, 2008, 04:05:06 AM »
Were the characters as fun to play as they were to watch? Would people like more roleplaying games in the future? Interesting..
As an observer I picked Holmes as a likely scum, but well done Cid, you fooled me :3
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Sierra

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Re: GAME START Anonymous Mafia
« Reply #166 on: June 02, 2008, 04:07:29 AM »
I can't speak for everyone else, but I had a lot of fun doing it. It was definitely a lot of fun watching everyone else. LD was obviously having a lot of fun being Mr. T., not to mention doing a frighteningly good job of being Otter. I also have to give props to Alex for "j'oq voht," 'wi'phom" and the like.

Lady Door

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Re: GAME START Anonymous Mafia
« Reply #167 on: June 02, 2008, 04:13:38 AM »
I wasn't trying to do anything other than avoid posting 10,000 word epics that no one would pay attention to. That and try not to fail too much at picking up a Mr. T vibe. It was fun to play, but I think a roleplay game would be even more fun if I ended up with a character I knew well.

Heh. If those really were random, kudos to Random for its sense of humor.

My read-through was making me suspect Cid and Holmes more and more -- still convinced Yoda was town -- but I kept getting stuck on Worf, so it ended up being Worf and Cid/Holmes for me, despite the fact that all three looked pretty off to me at the end. I probably would have done pretty much what Andrew did at the end there, if only out of sheer frustration. :P

Good game. Frustrating as hell, but it was fun!
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Excal

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Re: GAME START Anonymous Mafia
« Reply #168 on: June 02, 2008, 04:17:43 AM »
Yeah, props to Cid as well.  While I did pick him out, it was less because he looked scummy, and more a process of elimination that could have bitten me in the ass.  Of course, Andy as Yoda meant that you were still number three on my list, and unlikely to climb higher.

VySaika

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Re: GAME START Anonymous Mafia
« Reply #169 on: June 02, 2008, 04:26:53 AM »
Holmes I had pegged as scum, but I was suspecting a Yoda/Holmes scumteam. Cid...took me right out of the blue. I never suspected him.
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Hunter Sopko

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Re: GAME START Anonymous Mafia
« Reply #170 on: June 02, 2008, 04:32:19 AM »
I realized my Day 1 argument against Yoda was bunk about midway through Day 2. Couldn't really pull back from it in the situation I was in though by that time.

Around that time I also wanted to say something about the fact that no one suspected Mr. T or Cid, but that also wouldn't have gone over well considering the situation I was in.

Even then, Cid had me totally fooled. Holmes I was on the fence about, but overall good game by the scum.

As for Megatron... I don't remember much about Transformers. Much like TMNT, Ghostbusters, and all the shows I watched pre-Nickelodeon. All I remember from Beast Wars was Waspinator, Rat Trap and Cheetor. I didn't think we'd be pretty much cosplaying the roles, or else I'da picked something I knew better, like The Dude. Though honestly, I thought it would work best to my advantage in terms of being anonymous.

Laggy never asked my thoughts on who is who, but I would've only gotten Alex. I know he's a pretty big Star Trek fan. I'd pegged Andy and Shale flipped with Andy as Holmes. I thought Cid was Grefter, but had no clue on the others.

Ranmilia

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Re: GAME START Anonymous Mafia
« Reply #171 on: June 02, 2008, 04:47:36 AM »
Already said it on IRC, but GG to the scum. 

Edit:  Editing in a Mafia game!

Edit 2:  If everyone would toss me the passwords to their anon accounts, so that they can be used in future games, I'd appreciate it.  Thanks!

« Last Edit: June 02, 2008, 04:49:17 AM by Sir Alex »

Otter

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Re: GAME START Anonymous Mafia
« Reply #172 on: June 03, 2008, 05:55:12 AM »
Props to LadyDoor.  If people thought you were me, you were doing something very right.

Congrats to scum, too.