GAME START Anonymous Mafia

[Mr. Miyagi]

Unanticipated the end of the day was.

Unfortunate this is, but much information does it bring. Gollum and Franziska town were, and on both of them two people voted: Cid and Worf. Matter not does reason for voting, for even joke votes may serve the Dark Side. Bear watching, both do. Lacking though are other markers of the dark side. Not enough to warrant votes, have they done. Vote record, worth observing it is, though.

Very suspicious, Sparrow is. Misconstrue Worf's statement, he does. Vote with little reason, he does. Ignore other arguments and lack content, he does. Post more, he must. Encourage him, I shall.

##Vote: Captain Jack Sparrow

[Jack Sparrow]

Ngh.

Oh, my friends! My dear friends!

...

You know.

Ever since the beginning, I've found it difficult to read this topic, let alone post.

Trying to conceal identities, trying to figure out what in the fuck everyone in the topic is saying... what I'm trying to say is that it's been really cumbersome.

The problem is trying to decode what everyone is saying and trying to figure out who is scum from vague fragments of ideas. It's impossibile.

The person I still find most suspicious is Worf. I find his hopping around strange, and as mentioned, his arguments toward Ms. von Karma seem to be trying to pull things out of thin air. Which admittedly, it seems like the Captain has done. I simply detected something that made me uneasy, and it was poorly phrased.

It is regrettable that Ms. von Karma was so careless. The murder of  Gollum is quite... interesting, considering that he was suspect. Maybe there were signs of his power left about? I'm not even sure what his posts were saying.

I find Cid to be pretty clean in general. Clearcut thoughts. Disagreement with Yoda that jokevotes should be taken as a sign of the darkness. In the Captain's previous run-ins with the darkness, evil is indisciriminate with their votes, even on each other.

[Cid Highwind]

Ever since the beginning, I've found it difficult to read this topic, let alone post.

Trying to conceal identities, trying to figure out what in the fuck everyone in the topic is saying... what I'm trying to say is that it's been really cumbersome.

If you're having trouble reading a specific %$@$#& poster's comments, the best thing to do is just $#%@&# say so. Posting in character is %$@&#$ fun, hey, but we've got some &@%$#% problems if it's impeding basic &#@%$# communication. If you don't think you can tell what the $%#& someone's tryin' to say, the best thing to do is %$&%@# tell 'em. Concealing identities is one thing, being impenetrable is a different &#%$#& business. This is pretty much all the $#%$#& Klingon was saying when you jumped on him. Me, I think I've $%@#&# sorted things out now and I don't have trouble reading the topic, though wrapping my mind around %$&@$# Yoda's syntax still gives me half a headache.

The problem is trying to decode what everyone is saying and trying to figure out who is scum from vague fragments of ideas. It's impossibile.

I don't know what to &*@%#$ say to this. That's pretty much the $@#$&$ game in a nutshell, boyo. You knew what you were $@#%$& signin' up for, right?

The person I still find most suspicious is Worf. I find his hopping around strange, and as mentioned, his arguments toward Ms. von Karma seem to be trying to pull things out of thin air. Which admittedly, it seems like the Captain has done. I simply detected something that made me uneasy, and it was poorly phrased.

My $@#$&% question is, what do you think of the other people who $@#$@& voted for Karma for the same reason? And this question's for %#$@%& Megatron as well as you. Worf wasn't the only one who $@%$@# singled out the argument you &%&@$# suspect him for criticizing. When the $@#%$& lawyer called out Mr. T. for asking about $#@$%& "plans," three people responded calling her $@%#$& argument suspect: Worf, Gollum, and Mr. T. himself. Gollum's %@#$#& dead and we know he was town, but T.'s still $@#$%& live and kicking (though the crazy son of a %@#&% hasn't said a word today, I notice). What about Worf makes him more of a %$%#&@ suspect to you? Because $#%$#& hopping around doesn't feel like enough to me.

[Jack Sparrow]

I didn't think this was going to be roleplay Mafia. In fact, it said in the first post to not let roleplay interfere with the Mafiaing.

I have no problem with style change, but the point of this Mafia isn't roleplay. It's anonymity.

I can't tell you exactly what about Worf makes me more uneasy than the others. His reasoning is awkward and he adopts a tone that makes me uneasy. I can't provide you with an adquate answer.

Two votes on me already, and two of our fine friends haven't even shown? My, my.

From my own perspective, I can say that I know one of them's probably some evil zombie or whatever shittles you guys calls the scum.

I would hope our two other fine guests show soon! Or else displeasure will set in.

I forgot to do the customary thing and back up my slinging of accusations, and for this I apologize. A misstep on the part of the Captain.

##Vote: Worf

[Sherlock Holmes]

Ugh. Not only have two of our number fallen, but the stronger of my suspicions proved to be poorly founded. Hopefully the advent of solid information will prevent me from making the same mistake twice.

Anyway. To business. Of our two lurkers from yesterday, Megatron has given his thoughts, while Captain Sparrow, while no longer silent, pleads ignorance to the substance of yesterday's discussion and gives his throughts on just two of the six he might observe. If he needs clarification on any point, an explanation of any post, all he should have to do is ask for it. The rest of us certainly did the same when Gollum's idiosyncracies got in the way of his ideas, and it helped. Simple silence, though? That will not do - that is tantamount to surrender, and at worse seems a gambit to avoid having to make any argument at all. I would place a vote on you here to encourage things, if that would not push you dangerously close to elimination before you have a chance to speak again. But be certain, I will gladly do so if the day grows much later without contribution from you.

Speaking of the scaled cybernetic, I too find the entire conflict over von Karma to be somewhat impervious to analysis, but you overstate the problem with Commander Worf's vote. His justification was short, yes, but vague it was not.

Her justifications for issuing a challenge against Mr. T are unwise.  They are a direct statement that she does not wish to stand tall and speak of her plans.

Though couched in ramblings on honor, that seems rather straightforward to me.

In general, It seems to me that she and Mister T nearly came to blows over the meaning of the word "plan," which would be a very small, specious thing to make such a weighty decision over. What weighs heavily on my mind is the fact that the initial conflict was very much of her own making, and the most noteworthy vote against her came from Gollum - both of whom are now shown beyond any doubt to be innocent. A depressing prospect indeed, that it was innocents on both sides of that conflict.

Now, Master Yoda...

Matter not does reason for voting, for even joke votes may serve the Dark Side.

Here I must disagree strongly. Votes cast in seeming jest may in fact have a darker purpose, but it takes more than a simple statement of their targets to judge that. Someone who tries to push others into following their "joke" votes, or sticks by them as if they have meaning, should have those votes examined more seriously than someone who does no such thing. Any vote is worth noting, but that does not mean we must discount the reasons behind them. No one aspect of the record tells the whole story.

Mmmm, and Captain Sparrow posts again before I can send this missive. Yes, the rules do not require us to inhabit our roles, but, if I may be frank, it is more entertaining that way. Since this is a game, anything that renders it more entertaining should be encouraged, I think. Again, if you find any particular person or post too obscure, please point them out.

[The Dude]

The end of the day and the events at night didn't do much of anything for my suspicions.

Megatron: Ain't said a single word about the votes pilin' up 'gainst him from yesterday. Odd, considering he was -2 from hammer before the night was unexpectedly ended by somethin' irrelevant. Comin' out of the gate with a new argument helps defray the suspicion 'round his bein' passive, but it don't do nothin' 'bout what people were sayin' the day before. What happened to the argumen' 'gainst Yoda if it was so strong for you? If you were convinced otherwise, why not say so? Looks a helluva lot like ya got caught in an argument goin' nowhere and you thought you could get a get-out-of-jail-free card by startin' somethin' new right out the gate.

I ain't seein' what was so opaque to the robot 'bout why the Klingon voted for the lawyer, as Sherlock Holmes also pointed out. With this in mind, it looks like Megatron simply manufactured an argument without consideration of the context, rather than having somethin' that looked weird enough to warrant such a vote out of the gate. It's 'specially wrong-feelin' since the vote was weighted with the idea that Worf happened to vote for two who were confirmed town. So what? It's Day 1. Votin' records are certainly important, but when there are arguments about contributions, presence, logic and so forth going on, jumpin' someone 'cause of somethin' like that just feels like a poor attempt to control the day. The captain said it: evil is indiscriminate with its votes, even if it means votin' on one another.

Sherlock Holmes: I am a little mollified by his response to my last post last night. His explanations made his perspective more clear to me, and even though his target turned up innocent, I feel that his argument against said target was logical enough.

Jack: I ain't happy that you're gettin' so flustered by the character postin'. As others have said, jus' ask for clarification if somethin' seems hard to get. I don't see the jumpin' 'round that you accuse Worf of -- his initial vote was a joke, his second vote (on von Karma) was because she seemed to advocate secrecy, his third vote logically moved against Gollum when the creature was obfuscatin' his own words, the night ended, and his vote today was against you for logical reasons 'gainst your absence. He hasn't been particularly detailed in his arguments, that's for certain, and that's certainly somethin' to watch out for. But he ain't jumpin' 'round and your addition about his vote against the lawyer makes it seem like you're trainin' with the robot without actually lookin' to see what happened there. As I said above, it wasn't hard for me or Sherlock Holmes to find Worf's own justification for the vote.

I think I'm none too happy with either Jack or Megatron. Both need to say more -- not jibba-jabba complainin' or reiteratin' what's already been said, but substantive analysis! There are things to talk 'bout. What are your thoughts on them?

Though I'm torn between the two, I see Megatron has only 1 vote to Jack's 2. In the interest of making pressure pressurin', I'm gonna

##Vote: Megatron

[The White Witch]

I, too, have been having difficulty following events.  I have said this before, and in fact my foes in that regard were mainly Gollum and Von Karma.  This also played into my early vote on Von Karma.  Mainly, however, I was voting her for rashly attacking Mr. T and seeming to promote secrecy.  I am not sure how I can explain this any more clearly, and apologize if I have confused anyone myself.

I have spent today thinking, however.  To win a battle, one must outplay the enemy.  The Borg are mechanical - we should not be.  Therefore I am making a complete reversal of my initial challenge today.  Jack Sparrow's honest reaction, along with the low probability that Borg would misunderstand my statements to that extent in the first place, has left me thinking that he is an honorable and upright human.  I think that at this point, Borg can best be found by looking at those sitting in the background.

##Unvote: Jack Sparrow
##Vote: Yoda

Yoda to date has adopted a dishonorable strategy of saying very little, and what he has said have been rather empty cases, based heavily around the lurking of others, the jokevote phase, and Jack Sparrow's misguided attacks on myself.  (Once again, I forsee complaints that I am not making a large and detailed attack - but Yoda has not said enough for me to construct one, that is the problem!)

I feel that Cid and Mr. T are solid non-Borg comrades, and am unsure on Holmes and Megatron.  Although Megatron is fighting like a robot, I am still unsure if it is truly Borglike or merely inhuman.  Holmes' statements continually trigger my instincts, for reasons I cannot fully pin down myself.  His latest log entry allays my mistrust of him somewhat, however.

[Ned Flanders]

My $@#$&% question is, what do you think of the other people who $@#$@& voted for Karma for the same reason? And this question's for %#$@%& Megatron as well as you. Worf wasn't the only one who $@%$@# singled out the argument you &%&@$# suspect him for criticizing. When the $@#%$& lawyer called out Mr. T. for asking about $#@$%& "plans," three people responded calling her $@%#$& argument suspect: Worf, Gollum, and Mr. T. himself. Gollum's %@#$#& dead and we know he was town, but T.'s still $@#$%& live and kicking (though the crazy son of a %@#&% hasn't said a word today, I notice). What about Worf makes him more of a %$%#&@ suspect to you? Because $#%$#& hopping around doesn't feel like enough to me.

The end of the day and the events at night didn't do much of anything for my suspicions.

Megatron: Ain't said a single word about the votes pilin' up 'gainst him from yesterday. Odd, considering he was -2 from hammer before the night was unexpectedly ended by somethin' irrelevant. Comin' out of the gate with a new argument helps defray the suspicion 'round his bein' passive, but it don't do nothin' 'bout what people were sayin' the day before. What happened to the argumen' 'gainst Yoda if it was so strong for you? If you were convinced otherwise, why not say so? Looks a helluva lot like ya got caught in an argument goin' nowhere and you thought you could get a get-out-of-jail-free card by startin' somethin' new right out the gate.

I ain't seein' what was so opaque to the robot 'bout why the Klingon voted for the lawyer, as Sherlock Holmes also pointed out. With this in mind, it looks like Megatron simply manufactured an argument without consideration of the context, rather than having somethin' that looked weird enough to warrant such a vote out of the gate. It's 'specially wrong-feelin' since the vote was weighted with the idea that Worf happened to vote for two who were confirmed town. So what? It's Day 1. Votin' records are certainly important, but when there are arguments about contributions, presence, logic and so forth going on, jumpin' someone 'cause of somethin' like that just feels like a poor attempt to control the day. The captain said it: evil is indiscriminate with its votes, even if it means votin' on one another.

Sherlock Holmes: I am a little mollified by his response to my last post last night. His explanations made his perspective more clear to me, and even though his target turned up innocent, I feel that his argument against said target was logical enough.

Jack: I ain't happy that you're gettin' so flustered by the character postin'. As others have said, jus' ask for clarification if somethin' seems hard to get. I don't see the jumpin' 'round that you accuse Worf of -- his initial vote was a joke, his second vote (on von Karma) was because she seemed to advocate secrecy, his third vote logically moved against Gollum when the creature was obfuscatin' his own words, the night ended, and his vote today was against you for logical reasons 'gainst your absence. He hasn't been particularly detailed in his arguments, that's for certain, and that's certainly somethin' to watch out for. But he ain't jumpin' 'round and your addition about his vote against the lawyer makes it seem like you're trainin' with the robot without actually lookin' to see what happened there. As I said above, it wasn't hard for me or Sherlock Holmes to find Worf's own justification for the vote.

I think I'm none too happy with either Jack or Megatron. Both need to say more -- not jibba-jabba complainin' or reiteratin' what's already been said, but substantive analysis! There are things to talk 'bout. What are your thoughts on them?

Though I'm torn between the two, I see Megatron has only 1 vote to Jack's 2. In the interest of making pressure pressurin', I'm gonna

##Vote: Megatron

Does not compute. The object of the game is to question people, yes?

I also find it illogical to make the argument about not mentioning I was -2 to hammer yesterday. This is a statement known "Wine in front of me". I could have done so, but it is a dmaned if I do, or damned if I don not situation. If I do say something, I could be accused of being overly defensive and people could move against me as such. It was a tactical choice. I chose to ignore such an argument until it was brought up in order to focus on my own.

As the beginning of the day, discussion needs to start somewhere. I chose one line of suspicion to follow up on based on the evidence at hand, and questioned Worf. He has said little and is often as vague as Mr. Sparrow. You mention voting record, both Cid and Mr. T. Yes, Gollum and Mr. T also voted on the lawyer. However, Gollum was town and now dead, so I could hardly question him? Mr. T did not have Worf's voting record, so I chose to question Worf. What other solid pieces of evidence do we have to go off of? You offer words, based on heresay and opinion. Yes, my argument is an opinion based on that data as well, however, if something feels off, THE ARGUMENT MUST ALWAYS BE MADE. This is the town's duty. With his post today, I was not satisfied with his explanation. I chose to press him on it. If he does satisfy me, I can always lift the vote.

Also, Mr. T, I mentioned my current stance on Yoda in my first post. He was not below my suspicion, and I noted that he was not around the second half of the day despite coming out of the gate so strongly.

I do agree with peoples' view on Mr. Sparrow. Another one who is vague, with a worse reputation of lurking. Care to make an actual argument today, Mr. Sparrow? One not laced with confusion about peoples' play this game, perhaps?

Updating system files... new post detected.

Worf, I will concede you this for now. I do not have enough to continue pressing what was vote to pressure you to talk anyway. There is still much discussion to be had, so.

##UNVOTE: Worf

I agree, once again, that our little green friend Yoda needs to give more content. Same to the pirate.

[Mr. Miyagi]

If problem with method of speaking you have, address questions directly to speaker you should. Sticking to character, help enforce anonomity does. Obscure gameplay, it should not. Some suspicions remain with you will, until noteworthy content you post.

Easy to read my posts, it should be. Return to regular grammar if needed, I will.

Imply that joke votes are indicative one or the other, I did not intend to. Ignore them completely, one should not. Make decision on who to target, scum still must do. Clues, they can possibly provide.

Question Worf's statements, I must. Define cases as empty, how? Important is post frequency and content. Getting too involved I may be, however. One more problem, I have though. Where does problem with my attack on Sparrow come from? Did not his vote on faulty argument rest? Odd, your stance is. Assume scum would not attempt to sensationalize a questionable stance, you do? Ignore his complete flip flop (question your stance regarding getting people to talk, he did, then assume a near identical stance, he does) you will? Much difficulty with your reasons, do I have.

Seems very anti-scum hunting, your position does. Assuming flawed attacks belong to town, understand I cannot. Elaborate, you can?

##Unvote: Sparrow
##Vote: Worf

[The White Witch]

Assume scum would not attempt to sensationalize a questionable stance, you do?
...
Assuming flawed attacks belong to town, understand I cannot. Elaborate, you can?

Yes, in these two points you have struck to the core of my position.  A warrior must put oneself in the enemy's mind to predict his movements.  If I were Borg in this situation, I certainly would not have made the obviously flawed attack Captain Sparrow did.  It is an obviously absurd move, apparent not only to me but to Von Karma, Sherlock Holmes, Mr. T, Cid, and yourself... nearly everyone has independently pointed out how nonsensical it was. 

The Borg are machines.  Their attacks are flawed, but they are most often flawed in subtle ways, not brazenly wrong as in Captain Sparrow's case.  Just because his argument was poor does not mean it was Borglike.  That alone does not excuse him, but I feel genuine humanity in his followups to the votes on him. 

Rather, what I would expect a true Borg to do in such a situation would be to hang back, to perhaps comment and analyze many of the skirmishes while involving themselves only in engagements they seem likely to win.  This, Yoda, is exactly what you have done with your vote on Captain Sparrow.  His gross misinterpretation of me made him a very easy target, and you summarily pounced upon him and have not considered removing yourself.  Even now, your challenge to me seems inexplicable as anything but a reflective strike from the OMG'US school, as you have withdrawn your challenge from Captain Sparrow to place it on me... for no longer challenging Sparrow? 

Your prior actions are, to put it bluntly as the edge of my enemy's bat'leth, nonexistent.  Never in reading any of the Captain's Logs of prior engagements have I seen an example of where the initial jo'q voht challenges or the end of that phase provided any real meaning for finding Borg or relevance other than constructing very preliminary assaults.  They were fine for their time, but you have not provided anything more. 

[Laggy]

(0) Sherlock - n/a
(2) Worf - Megatron, Jack, Yoda
(0) Jack - Worf, Yoda
(1) Yoda - Worf
(2) Megatron - Cid, Mr. T
(0) Cid - n/a
(0) Mr. T - n/a

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

[Jack Sparrow]

Oh ho ho ho.

Hahahaha!

After two small statements from the part of the Captain, the ones who voted for me have turned elsewhere! Now, the Captain will admit that his attentions have turned elsewhere, and he finds it somewhat peciular how quickly they turned away from him!

I believe that I am still a good target, as sad as this may seem to admit! I am not sure if my friend Worf's intentions are truly to unroot those who squirm in the darkness, or to deflect the attention of those who have wrought votes against him? A very strange predictiment, especially since he has switching votes to someone who has attracted little attention!

Master Yoda returns the vote in a great counterattack! I had no awareness that he was strong in the ways of the OMGUS.

I am unsure of where I can direct my sails from here, but my suspicions of the supposed Borg hunter grow less and less!

Mr. T! You bring forth the case that I could be following in the footsteps of a robot, a robot whose intentions I do not trust. Your stance raises my eyebrows! This is not the only day I have pursued the Worf! To say that I am following suit is a fallacy!

I must set my sails to do some menial tasks, regrettably, before I could even finish my thoughts! Alas. Farewell, mates!

[The Dude]

Jack: My response was based offa the fact that you an' the robot were both after Worf 'cause of somethin' I didn't see him to have done. 'Cause the argument seemed pretty specious -- that Worf was hoppin' around, arguments seeming to have been pulled outta thin air (when they weren't, as Holmes and I both pointed out) -- I considered the fact that you had agreed with Megatron's stance to be mighty suspicious. Agreein' with an argument that makes little sense ain't gonna make you look very friendly. Jus' 'cause the target was the same as 'fore doesn't mean the reasons are any more solid. Tryin' to point out that you've been stayin' on the same target while pointin' out that you thought someone else was bein' hoppy makes me even more suspicious. Mr. T is watchin'.

The quick movin' of the two votes on ya don't sit easy with me, either. I sense that Worf's withdrawal was based on much the same feelin' I had 'bout Miss von Karma at the conclusion of our argument, where I felt the conflict had only come up over a misunderstandin'. Yoda does seem to look to have made an OMGUS attack, but I can also see his move as an attempt to add weight to his search for answers from the lieutenant. I ain't too happy with the Klingon's response to Yoda's action, neither, 'cause he seemed to apply too much to emotion in his arguments, which makes no sense. The moment game terms start popping up in spades - 'specially OMGUS - I start gettin' wary; it seems like an attempt to pigeon-hole moves and draw in the drama and censure associated with each one. Yes he withdrew his challenge from Sparrow to attack Worf, who was no longer attackin' Sparrow -- the reason you stopped attackin' the pirate looked off to him. Why is that OMGUS? Jus' 'cause you happened to vote for Yoda first?

Megatron: 'nother example of pullin' in Mafia terms to define someone's actions. I don't think it -was- WIFOM to expect you to defend yourself. You were on the block the day before. An unfortunate mod-kill occurred. The new day began with your post. I think it was your obligation to respond to the arguments against you from before. I am surprised and a little unhappy with the complete lack of attention people've been givin' to their previous arguments, 'cept where it serves them to point out that they ain't comin' out of thin air. As much as I'm curious to see why you didn't feel the need to respond to the previous day's events AT ALL, I'm curious to see why no one else saw it important to consider arguments they'd made the day before either. Am I really misguided in thinkin' that that's an important part of consistency too?

Your comment 'bout Yoda was as off-handed as all get-out, all "Yoda also fell off near the end of the day. Granted, there is no way the little creature could have known that would happen, coming on strongly and then disappearing bears noting." and then "...and my recent note about Yoda." and that's it. Mentionin' the guy in your posts like that ain't sayin' much about your suspicions about him, 'specially since you meted your initial comment with a "but he couldn't've known that would happen." Addin' the "once again" to your most recent post is a little odd, since you hadn't really said much about it until then.

At the moment I think I'm going to leave my vote on Megatron. I ain't seein' much weight in the other arguments bein' tossed around. Worf's argument 'gainst Yoda seems to be based around the fact that the things the green guy has been basin' his arguments on aren't things that Worf thinks are relevant. And yet? They are still -things- that are considered worthy of attention in the wider scheme of things. That looks like a disagreement of principle to me. Yoda's vote on Worf I discussed above. Jack's vote on Worf I also discussed above.

I will be back later tonight!

[Mr. Miyagi]

 Turn my eye away from Sparrow, I have not.  Only move my vote to who seems most suspicious though, I have.

Worf, almost your entire case for moving off Sparrow rest on the theory that scum cannot make mistakes, it seems. Based on limited evidence, game is. Take what we can, we must. Foolish, your stance is. Give scum tools to escape suspicion, you do. Worse, give free pass to crap argumentation, you do. Understand I would if someone else struck particular chord, or provide some sort of explanation, Sparrow did.

Thoughts on his flip-flop, do you have, or is this merely more case where you excuse it for being bad play?

Sparrow, thoughts on me, do you have? Further, why trust Worf now, you do?

[Cid Highwind]

I can't tell you exactly what about Worf makes me more uneasy than the others. His reasoning is awkward and he adopts a tone that makes me uneasy. I can't provide you with an adquate answer.

You seem to know this $#%@#& response wasn't what I was lookin' for, but just acknowledging that doesn't get you out of making a %$@#%& explanation. I'm the kinda guy that wants some good %&%@#$ examples of why someone's %$%&@$# suspicious before sending him to the gibbet, and the fact that you can't $%@#&# explain why you're hangin' onto your main suspect like a %@#$&% pitbull makes me very %$#@&# uneasy. "It's just a feeling" is a justification I can't $@$#&% take seriously. If you've got something more than %&$#@% instinct, I'm willing to listen--quotes pointin' out what in his tone makes you &@$#%# suspicious of him, maybe--but right now you've only said things to make me question your %$&@$# judgement.

EDIT: I see you've $@&#$@ backed off now, but that doesn't excuse the #@%$&# poor reasoning that was there in the first place, so the above comments $@%#&$ stand.

I know that's not the only %&@%$# thing you said about him, yeah, but the accusation of train-hopping is $@#&%$ bunk for reasons pointed out by Mr. T. and your attack on Worf near the end of $@#$&% day one has already been hashed over. Now, I'm willing to accept the occasional $@#$%& mistake, as I've said before, but I hope to %@$# I don't see you building a case on a misreading again 'cause it'll make me wonder if it was really a $@#%$& misreading in the first place. Whether or not all this makes you look worse than the $@%#$& robot is something I gotta sort out still. Looks like there's plenty of new $@#& for me to read over, first.

...And now I've $@#&%$ read it all, I see Worf switched his %@$#%& vote and started a fracas with $#@%$& Yoda. This is makin' my &%@$#% spin as much as Yuffie's does on the $@%#$& Highwind, so I'll deal with this #@%$&# mess last and look at Megatron for now.

As for %*&@$# Megatron? Points against him are: 1) $@$#&% hanging back day one; 2) comin' into day two with a $@#%$& flimsy argument against Worf, totally dropping his day one case against Yoda in the process; 3) not bothering to respond today to the %@$#&% outstanding points against him from day one. This last one's #@%$&$ tricky, 'cause the scenario Megatron describes is something I can see happening: you start out day two #@%$#& defendin' yourself and someone $@%$#& calls you suspicious just for that. It makes some %@$#&$ sense when he explains it, yeah, but put all these points together and it looks like someone trying to make a $@#%$& distraction so's we don't pick up where we left off yesterday. His $@%$#& argument against Worf bein' pretty %@$#%& shoddy fits right in with that.

He's changed his $@&$#% tune now, of course, but that doesn't #%@$#& clear him automatically.

I'm sure the %@$#%& tin can is itching* to point out that he didn't $@%#$& forget about Yoda right about now, as he already reminded Mr. T. of that, so lemme do it for him:

Yoda also fell off near the end of the day. Granted, there is no way the little creature could have known that would happen, coming on strongly and then disappearing bears noting.

He said that in the first $@%#$& post of the day, yeah, but I gotta point out that it's a pretty basic $@%#$& observation AND one that has no $@#%$& connection with the arguments he used against Yoda on day one, so you can't %@$#& say he continued what he started there. I'm pretty &@$#%@ comfortable leaving my vote right where it is unless somethin' about the Worf & Yoda debate really gets under my %@$#%& skin.

...And now that I've #$@%$& read that @%$#%$#@%$&, I need a %@$#&$ drink. Wait, there $@%#$& aren't any? I hate bein' stuck on this %@$#&$ rock.

Anyway, what %@$#%& gets me about the little green $@$# is this:

Worf, almost your entire case for moving off Sparrow rest on the theory that scum cannot make mistakes, it seems.

That's making a %@$#&% generalization. The &@$# Klingon laid out two kinds of behavior and specified the one he felt the %@$#&% pirate followed--the less $@%$#& suspicious one. He didn't &@%#$@ say "Scum don't make %@$#&# mistakes." I'm not sure what the $@%# I think of Worf's reversal with Sparrow right now, but I'm %@$#&# sure I don't like seeing Yoda chop a %@$#&$ post down to a generalization and ignore the %@$#%& specifics of the situation. Maybe this'll %@$#%& help me figure things out:

##Unvote: Megatron
##Vote: Yoda

This doesn't mean I'm not #@%#&@ paying attention to you any more, Megatron, it's just there's someone else I want some %@%#$& answers from right now. If you've got somethin' new to say, I'm still %@&$#@ listening.

---
*- Do robots itch? I don't $@%#$& know. I don't &*@%$# want to know.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Too much of a headache to be bothered to try and back-ass-wards-ify this, so let me speak in more plain terms for this post.

The fact is that there are no really unique, outstanding individualities to this particular case. Worf's entire case for switching, as near as I can tell, is indeed based around the premise that scum would not make a stupid mistake like Sparrow did. I don't see anything particularly hard referenced, just a general feeling of towniness because of... well. To be frank, I'm not sure why! It really does seem to be a trumped up case of gut feeling.

The problem I have with this is the classical statement "Oh, it is just Tom being Tom." The fact is that scum aren't going to be inherently better players than town. Scum can have bad days. Scum can be bad players. Worf's stance requires a basic acceptance that you believe that scum would not be that stupid, but town, on the other hand, would.

If Worf can give me something more, or perhaps explicate on what exactly about Sparrow's dodgy attitude is reassuring, I'll be more inclined to move on. As is though, I'm not really seeing where my generalization is inaccurate.

[The White Witch]

The answer is simple:  everyone has called Sparrow out on his poor reasoning.  Everyone but him saw how it was poor.  Borg have Borgbuddies, and run their posts past each other - they ARE going to be better about avoiding random boneheaded misreadings.  If Sparrow was Borg, I find it incredibly unlikely that he would ignore the Gollum and Megatron cases going on and attack me for that reason "by accident."  The argument for him being Borg, to me, must include the Borg deciding to make that case against me on purpose, with Sparrow's Borgbuddy knowing how fallacious it was.  I simply cannot see this happening.

And even then, as I have said, it took the rest of Sparrow's responses to the votes on him to convince me that he was genuine.  He was essentially giving himself up to the lynch, admitting he was wrong and laying out his thoughts, including uncertainties, in a clear fashion.  This is again not what I would expect Borg to do.  From them I would expect equivocation, continued deflecting aggression and sticking to their guns on technicalities, much like Yoda is doing now.

Is this 100%?  No.  Will it work every time?  Certainly not, it would indeed give Borg a free pass if that was the case.  Will it work this time?  I think so.  A warrior must take risks on occasion and adapt to the situation at hand, rather than playing the same way every time.

[The White Witch]

In addition to the above, I would like to point out that deadline is swiftly approaching (one more day) and TWO PEOPLE ARE NOT VOTING.

This is unacceptable and very suspicious.  I am particularly wary of Sherlock Holmes, since his behavior otherwise has very much fit with the "comment on everything but take no sides" style I would expect from Borg.  His tone otherwise leaves nothing to be desired - but where is the warrior's edge, the challenges, the aggression?  My order of preferred lynches today is Yoda-Holmes (nearly tied, for all that I have spoken little on Holmes to date) and following that Megatron.

[Sherlock Holmes]

It's late, it's been a long day and I've got to get up in the morning, so I'm dropping character for the moment too.

I have to agree with Yoda on this one. I'll give Cid the point about the generalization he made, but the quick vote on Yoda is going too far for my taste, because generalization or not he has a point. Worf said, to paraphrase, Sparrow's attack was obviously poorly considered, what with so many people pointing out the fallacy pretty quickly. Scum, he says, wouldn't do that. True, good scum wouldn't. But good town wouldn't make bad arguments either. No matter which side you're on, you're going to play however you think is most effective. Playing scum doesn't suddenly make players who would make mistakes as town into logical-argument-making machines. Let's remmeber this didn't come out of the blue - Sparrow lurked for all of the first day, and only started with the excuse-making when he was being called on it. That's a panicked reaction, not a measured strategy, and I don't see panic as a town thing or a scum thing, just an "oh crap, I might get lynched" thing. Worf apparently sees it as a town thing, which kind of is saying that mistakes, or at least that kidn of mistake, are townie behavior.

....hm. Worf ninjas me with a fuller explanation. That does make more sense. Still, when I've played scum before I didn't get a review of every message before posting them - sometimes to keep everybody's voices and thought processes distinct, other times just because nobody else was available. That's an exception more than a rule, though, and I can see where you're coming from even if I'm not ready to sign on completely. I'm also not as impressed as you seem to be by the defense in his most recent post.

What I don't like, and I've said this before in a more long-winded way, is the "I don't understand anybody" thing being brought out so suddenly when it was obvious from the first page that we were posting in character. Especially since he still hasn't asked for clarification on any particular point or post at all, I'm inclined to doubt that explanation for his quietness. And unless I'm missing something (it's possible, tiredness does things to the brain) his only contribution to the debate on anyone other than himself or the people who've accused him has been one-liners. I'd very much like to hear more breadth from him.

I wanted to discuss Megatron here too. After the way Day 1 ended, my thoughts on him are long overdue, but I wanted to talk about the more immediate issue first, then got sidetracked going over Worf's response and now it's past my bedtime. I'll tackle him tomorrow morning, yes.

[Sherlock Holmes]

Your criticism is fair. I initially held off on voting because my preferred target was already quite close enough to death, but now that is no longer the case, and i should have paid more mind to the shift in circumstances. I considered who you and Master Yoda were now voting for, but it did not quite register that because of your new votes the dangerous situation that shaped my actions before no longer applies. As an investigator who prides himself on deductive reasoning, it is an error I find most embarrassing. In short: others have taken their pressure off the pirate captain in order to pursue more varied targets, so I will endeavour to apply my own.

##Vote Captain Jack Sparrow

[Ned Flanders]

As for %*&@$# Megatron? Points against him are: 1) $@$#&% hanging back day one; 2) comin' into day two with a $@#%$& flimsy argument against Worf, totally dropping his day one case against Yoda in the process; 3) not bothering to respond today to the %@$#&% outstanding points against him from day one. This last one's #@%$&$ tricky, 'cause the scenario Megatron describes is something I can see happening: you start out day two #@%$#& defendin' yourself and someone $@%$#& calls you suspicious just for that. It makes some %@$#&$ sense when he explains it, yeah, but put all these points together and it looks like someone trying to make a $@#%$& distraction so's we don't pick up where we left off yesterday. His $@%$#& argument against Worf bein' pretty %@$#%& shoddy fits right in with that.

He's changed his $@&$#% tune now, of course, but that doesn't #%@$#& clear him automatically.

I'm sure the %@$#%& tin can is itching* to point out that he didn't $@%#$& forget about Yoda right about now, as he already reminded Mr. T. of that, so lemme do it for him:

Yoda also fell off near the end of the day. Granted, there is no way the little creature could have known that would happen, coming on strongly and then disappearing bears noting.

He said that in the first $@%#$& post of the day, yeah, but I gotta point out that it's a pretty basic $@%#$& observation AND one that has no $@#%$& connection with the arguments he used against Yoda on day one, so you can't %@$#& say he continued what he started there. I'm pretty &@$#%@ comfortable leaving my vote right where it is unless somethin' about the Worf & Yoda debate really gets under my %@$#%& skin.

I don't particularly expect people to forget my arguments of last round. If anything, I expect my competant allies to recall them. Bringing up Yoda at all would bring to mind to anyone that I had suspicions yesterday. I suppose it does look bad that I did not mention it specifically, and for that I apologize. However, it'd be much more malicious if I didn't bring Yoda up at all. This I did not do.

Analyzing argument... match found.

Yoda: You've been rather narrow in your focus today. I would hate to clone Cid's argument against me, but you brought a case against me yesterday and seem to have completely neglected it. To the point you haven't even mentioned it or me. Your thoughts on this?

On the flipside of today's arguments, HOL-MES sums up the case against Sparrow a bit better. There is always risk in thinking of behaviors like that being predominantly town or scum sided. I would agree that mistakes are things to seize on more than anything in looking at evidence.

I suppose the best question we can ask ourselves on Sparrow would be: what would his flip tell us either way? I want to think on this. I see a few things, such as a scum flip would incriminate Worf, for one (but would that be too obvious?), but I'm not seeing too much else. I want to see how he responds to the latest arguments first, as I'm currently on the fence, but definately leaning in this direction.

Megatron: 'nother example of pullin' in Mafia terms to define someone's actions.

Might I ask what the first instance was?

Worf: An entire day is no cause for alarm in terms of voting, unless someone were to break their anonimity again. I don't particularly trust that kind of alarmism.

(PS: Getting ninja'd 3 times isn't fun  )

[Mr. Miyagi]

Make more sense now, Worf's logic does. Still has problems though, I feel it does. Have allies in the game, the scum do. Not always around for advising, they are. Operate independently at times, they do. Hinge completely on one particular post being checked by other scum, it does. Interesting position you hold now, though. Admit certain validity to my argument, you do, by acknowledging the dangers of your assertion.

Ask about your methods of detection, I must. What is good scum hunting method? Call my reasons technicalities, you do. Sensible to me (based off a disjunction in your behavior and an odd pass given to Sparrow), they are. Clarify your reasons for the vote on me, further?

Ignore you I have, Megatron, because developed stronger have other cases. Based on day one lack of information, my initial attacks were. Stepped up somewhat, I feel you have. Top suspect, you are not.

Interesting position, Holmes has. Agree somewhat, I do, that his presence has been lacking. Thoughtful commentary, he does provide. Forgettable presence, he does possess.

Wish to hear from Sparrow more, I still do.

Also to hear about other's reactions to his flip-flopping and lack of questions or arguments, I desire (especially from Worf).

Currently caught between Sparrow and Worf I am, for lynch. Fit in third position, Holmes does.

[The White Witch]

Until my challenge to you, Yoda, the post at the top of this page (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=1111.msg20376#msg20376) was all you had said in the day.  Its contents are slim. 

You suggest that Captain Highwind and myself are suspicious for having challenged Karma and Gollum; this is a somewhat valid point, but weak evidence at best, given the dance of Wi'phom surrounding the choice of Gollum for the Borg assimilation.  You further suggest that joke votes are significant, much the same topic you dwelt upon day 1.  As previously stated, I strongly disagree and find them of no practical use or importance.   This half of your post is not informative, and actually comes off as a possible Borg ploy, saying "See!  Gollum was town, watch out for the people who voted him, even jokevoted!" 

Your actual vote is almost cursory and cast upon what I now believe to be a townie who made themselves an easy target.  As also previously stated, this is the exact move I would expect from the Borg, assuming Captain Sparrow is town.

My methods of detecting the Borg are too detailed to describe in depth here, and risk injuring anonymity if I were to provide an answer along the lines you seem to seek.  They should, however, be self-explanatory from reading my posts. 

In truth I do not see or understand the important flip from Sparrow you speak of.  I do see him changing position, but that is only to be expected after the entire rest of the game calls him out on making a bad case - I would find him much more suspicious had he attempted to backpedal and salvage his position (in the way, for example, that you are doing so now).  He admitted openly to being lost, and given the state of the battle up to the point of his last post, I agree and feel that his motions are genuine.  That said, it would certainly be helpful if he would rejoin us on the battlefield.

Yoda has, however, very nicely summarized my case against Holmes.  Thoughtful commentary he does provide, but hard stances and conclusions from it he lacks.  This is a strong sign of the Borg to me.

[Cid Highwind]

I have to agree with Yoda on this one. I'll give Cid the point about the generalization he made, but the quick vote on Yoda is going too far for my taste, because generalization or not he has a point.

This isn't the first %@$#&$ thing Yoda's done to get my &@%$#@ hackles up. His day one presence left somethin' to be desired and his overemphasis on $@%#$& joke votes has been hashed over by others. In combination with that, there's plenty %@$#&% grounds for a vote.

I do admit that there's good $@$#%& reason to question Worf's change of opinion on the %@$#%& pirate, and I noted my confusion about it in my last &@$#%# post. But the %@$#&$ clincher for me is that Worf's conduct aside from this point has been $@%#&$ straightforward and consistent, and he's recently given a thorough $@#%#& accounting of his reason for flipping his vote on Jacko. I'm not sure I &@%$#@ agree with it myself, but it makes enough &@%$# sense that I can see where he's coming from and I'm not likely to hold it against him. Somethin' to consider in conjunction with any mistakes he might make in the $@$#&# future, but right now? I'll side with someone I &@%$#@ agree with on most points rather than someone I disagree with on ALL but one point, especially since I was uneasy with how Yoda %$@$#& presented it.

What I don't like, and I've said this before in a more long-winded way, is the "I don't understand anybody" thing being brought out so suddenly when it was obvious from the first page that we were posting in character. Especially since he still hasn't asked for clarification on any particular point or post at all, I'm inclined to doubt that explanation for his quietness. And unless I'm missing something (it's possible, tiredness does things to the brain) his only contribution to the debate on anyone other than himself or the people who've accused him has been one-liners. I'd very much like to hear more breadth from him.

This here is a valid &@$#%# point, though. Jack's only real attempt at goin' on the offensive was the $@%#$& case against Worf, part of which looks a %@$#%# lot like a misreading at best. Well, yeah, he had a &@$#%@ vote against Yoda day one, but that was his first &@%#$@ post and he never followed up on it. The pirate's spent most of the &@$#%@ game goin' after people voting for him. Short of that, he's had %@$#&$ one-line observations and $@%#&$ admissions of confusion which don't %@$#%& help us even if they are genuine. &@$#%@ pirate badly needs to give us opinions on wider topics and I think that's the main strike against him.

Movin' on to other $@%& now, though.

Megatron: I'll $@#%$& accept that for now, and we seem to be on the same $@#%$& page about Sparrow. I've gotta admit your response to my criticism has been pretty &@%$%# straightforward and without the %@#$&# evasive wheedling I'd expect outta scum. This knocks you down a peg on the %@&$#% list of suspects, though not off of it.

Right now I'm %&@$#@ split between Sparrow and Yoda, and I think either one would be a good %@$#&% bet for our lynch today. The question is, would Sparrow's cardflip @%$#&@ tell us anything? Aside from its reflection on the @%$#&@ Klingon, I'm not sure we'd get much information out of it. The %@$#&$ pirate is bein' pretty &@%$#$ unhelpful right now, and the more he hangs back the more he looks like %@%#$& lurking scum to me, but between two people who look suspicious I'm gonna go for the one who's had plenty of #@%$#& interaction for us to sort through tomorrow.

[Ned Flanders]

I suppose the best question we can ask ourselves on Sparrow would be: what would his flip tell us either way? I want to think on this. I see a few things, such as a scum flip would incriminate Worf, for one (but would that be too obvious?), but I'm not seeing too much else. I want to see how he responds to the latest arguments first, as I'm currently on the fence, but definately leaning in this direction.

Right now I'm %&@$#@ split between Sparrow and Yoda, and I think either one would be a good %@$#&% bet for our lynch today. The question is, would Sparrow's cardflip @%$#&@ tell us anything? Aside from its reflection on the @%$#&@ Klingon, I'm not sure we'd get much information out of it. The %@$#&$ pirate is bein' pretty &@%$#$ unhelpful right now, and the more he hangs back the more he looks like %@%#$& lurking scum to me, but between two people who look suspicious I'm gonna go for the one who's had plenty of #@%$#& interaction for us to sort through tomorrow.

Scanning...

Scanning...

Scan complete.

Upon thinking about this matter, isn't there a possibility that they're both scum? Yoda seems to be a little too on point in regards to Jack. Yoda was the first to bring up the fact that scum make mistakes too, emphasizing it here:

Too much of a headache to be bothered to try and back-ass-wards-ify this, so let me speak in more plain terms for this post.

The fact is that there are no really unique, outstanding individualities to this particular case. Worf's entire case for switching, as near as I can tell, is indeed based around the premise that scum would not make a stupid mistake like Sparrow did. I don't see anything particularly hard referenced, just a general feeling of towniness because of... well. To be frank, I'm not sure why! It really does seem to be a trumped up case of gut feeling.

The problem I have with this is the classical statement "Oh, it is just Tom being Tom." The fact is that scum aren't going to be inherently better players than town. Scum can have bad days. Scum can be bad players. Worf's stance requires a basic acceptance that you believe that scum would not be that stupid, but town, on the other hand, would.

If Worf can give me something more, or perhaps explicate on what exactly about Sparrow's dodgy attitude is reassuring, I'll be more inclined to move on. As is though, I'm not really seeing where my generalization is inaccurate.

Despite this, he continues to press Worf for what Worf admits could be a case of gut feeling. I suppose someone has to question Worf's argument, but Yoda always seems to be more sure on Sparrow to me. The only thing that throws me about it is how they both have votes on Worf. Too obvious? But it does mean that Yoda is reluctant to vote Sparrow despite his case against him.

This leads us to the question both Cid and I have asked. Which lynch tells us more? Odds are, Yoda does, as he's been more aggressive and thus the threads to other players would be stronger. Jack's been the weaker player and would cut the fat, so to speak, and would give hint about the possibility for the argument above, as well as stuff about Worf.

Yoda's lynch would tell us more, Jack has the stronger case against him. This would be a toss up, but I recall that letting the lurker live has come back to bite us in the ass many, many times in this game. He has the stronger case against him, and it's not as if his lynch would tell us nothing. So...

##Vote: Jack Sparrow