Super Mafia Bros Brawl - Game Topic (GAME OVER)

[Yakumo]

Oh, I can certainly agree with that, Ciato, but the one exception I have to that feeling is when it comes to roleclaims.  The scum already have an advantage in that they actually know who their enemies are, while the townies have nothing but their wits and their roles.  Giving the scum team even more information by showing what roles you have is just a bad idea, it makes their decisions on who to get rid of that much easier to make.  I mean, seriously.  Anyone who has information from night zero and brings it out on day one is just asking to not get any more chances to find that information, yet Captain K was asking for it anyway.  Maybe he's scum, maybe he's not, but that's a bad idea to begin with and then he tried to backpedal from it, which is the point where I really got suspicious.  If he'd tried to explain what he was thinking or if he had just said he would stop, fine, but he sounds like he's trying to play down the importance of what he was doing, and then he excuses it with a "well, I just don't play the normal way" defense.  That doesn't fly to me.  I don't exactly play by some "big book of Mafia" either, but it's pretty clear that giving the enemy all the information is a bad idea.

Gah!  Triple ninja post!  Well, let me get this out there before I get buried and I'll keep going. >_>

[Yakumo]

Alright, Eph, while I agree with you to an extent, in that Day 1 Sucks, you have to look at it this way.  If everyone just treats day one as one giant joke like you seem to be, then what do we have to go on when day two comes around?  We end up with a dead guy who's dead because we randomly decided to pile on them, and then a dead guy the scum picked(and really, with no direction, the scum probably picked the first one too), and we have no solid leads to work with.  At least if we try to make cases on day one, our logic(or lack thereof) and the results of the previous day give us something to build on.  No, we aren't likely to catch scum day one unless they really screw up, but the game isn't won or lost in a day, it's won or lost by building over several, and it has to start somewhere.  In other words, stop acting snarky and like you're too good to participate in the game just because it's early, and start actually participating.

[Meeplelard]

Just wanna say one thing though...

I believe Alex outright stated that Roles and Characters are not by any means connected.  Heck it says so in the rules!  He states that after the role was assigned to the character, he tried his best to give it flavor that makes sense.

So yeah, don't think Pikmin and Flower have anything to do with each other.  Definitely feels like its some role power, one unassociated with Soppy.

Anyway, I don't like the tone in Eph's latest post.  People are going after him for not posting content, yes.  That's cause he doesn't HAVE much content in his posts.  He basically responds by shouting out that "OMG ITS DAY 1! WAAAAH!"

Look, Eph, there's a difference between "short post" and "short, contentless post."  You can make short posts but have content in them if you just go straight and to the point, and give out your reasons.  You...haven't really done that.  Your post where you voted even feels half tongue and cheek anyway, with the whole "Is it a scum trap? Who knows!" attitude.  You basically then just say go into depth regarding logistics behind a joke vote (if you can call that depth...), remove said vote, and then...well, lets quote!

That said, I feel uncomfortable with the sudden jump on the serious bandwagon EvilTom sparking this off means that he looks to prey on us weaker, less capable players.  I understand Rat is playing the same way, but really after Anom. Mafia, I don't understand him anymore.

Like Excal said, this line seems to be missing punctuation.  Granted, given the current circumstance, I assume you mean "a bandwagon against Tom" since Tom is voting on someone who no one else is at the moment, so if you meant "bandwagon started by Tom", that just makes no sense in this context.
But the punctuation is not what I'm getting at, the line itself is.  The punctuation indication is just noting that due to it, its hard to understand, so if I'm misinterpreting the line, then please elaborate.

What gets me is you say you're uncomfortable with going against Tom...then vote on him anyway...and don't explain yourself.  Tossing a vote randomly on someone without an explanation is not good.  Even Alex in FE Mafia, with all his "Day 1 discussion is meaningless!" propaganda at least formed SOME reason for his votes.  If you don't give at least some reason for your votes, people are going to think weird of you.

So yeah, I don't like following standard Mafia play because it's a bunch of random bicker and it's okay if you enjoy it, but I thought this game was going to be different.  Doesn't matter now if I get knocked off now so I don't have to put up with it or last longer when it's actually FUN.

Mafia is Mafia; unless its something really weird like Pretty Princess Mafia where it was *COMPLETELY DIFFERENT*, you're going to get these arguments.  Alex told us how the game was going to be formatted.  If you weren't paying attention, especially since he restated everything different about the game in the first post of the topic, that's your loss.  If this isn't what you expected, tough.

The whole tone of Eph's last post just strikes me the wrong way.  Its...yeah, screw this, I know I just made my first real serious vote, but Eph's latest post just gets me in all the wrong ways so...

##Unvote: Sopko
##Vote: Ephraim

...and then I get Ninja'd by...at least 3 people, hurray.

[Lord Ephraim]

I didn't call Rat nor Tom weak and incapable players.  I meant to say that Rat's random act of failure last time left me scratching my head.

With that, my vote stands.  I do think my poor understanding of really how Mafia is played will hurt me in the end, but I signed up hoping this game would be different (I think I would play better as a mod than player actually).

My playstyle is always be supisious of better players first and go down the list.  Excal made a right desicion  by making a vote on me to try to explain what the hell I meant (my line of thinking is a bit weak since my house smells like a rainforest right now O_o, sorry all these random events happen when I really want to try to play Mafia) and has every obilgation to be supisious of me being a bad scum player, which I was during FFT Mafia.

[Luther Lansfeld]

Hey don't worry it was 164 degrees in my house during the last Mafia game, so I for one understand. <_<

[Lord Ephraim]

Regards to Yak: sure making some sort of serious effort on day 1 does help but you still have a greater chance of lyching a town since they outnumber scum.  My understanding is that everyone tries to act like town so it's not like you can decypher "OH YEAH HE'S SCUM" as easily as you think.  For the record, I was lynched in FFT Mafia because of ROLES, not CONTENT IN TOPICS.

I'm still curious why Meeple voted on me now.  Are you trying to fuel other people into attacking me because of my bitchy attitude towards Mafia?  Perfect way of rounding up people onto a lynch if you ask me.  Bardche held off his judgment and Excal made a vote so I made an effort to explain myself (which is a fair way of getting people you may think are town to explain to other people you are town), but you just made a random vote based on my angst.

WHAT I MEANT TO SAY on my first real content post is that both Rat and Tom both kickstarted the serious talk from the joke posting.  While this may seem like a viable town strategy to start lynching scum,  this is also the easily way of getting people to believe you are town.  While I'm supisious of Rat (I mean, who isn't)  too,  Tom seems like a viable target and experenced player to get people to believe he is town early day 1.   It's overzealous thinking, but it's usually one of these people that are scum.

[Lord Ephraim]

ONE MORE THING before I'm done, why do people have a problem with me explaining my joke vote?  It's a joke vote and an explaination of a joke vote is a joke.  I actually had a long post intended for day 2, but it's not really remotely serious, so I decided now to scrap it. Way to spoil my fun. ;_;

[Excal]

Right, Eph, I don't give a damn if you write a dissertation or if you just give us a few small sentences here and there when you have something to say.  What I care about is that you actually say something worth saying, and that one post of yours gave us nothing except for something that made no sense.

So what you got was me trying to piece together the meaning, and asking for clairification.  Not even asking that you pair it up with some thoughts besides what you have on Tom/Rat (but why not Bard, I wonder?).  Actually, looking back, you never did answer that in any way shape or form regardless.  You kinda agreed with Meep's look at what you meant, but stayed away from anything vital in agreement.  As well, you also responded to Bard's and my own inability to understand what you said with vitriol and emotion and rants about how we cannot discern anything from Day 1.  I can understand why you're distraught with the reasoning you give.  But I also have to consider that you may be lying scum trying to milk things for your benefit, and hysterics like that only ever serve to cloud issues.

Finally, as much as you do seem to dislike and disapprove of what happens on day one, if you could spare some time to clarify what you meant, and maybe give some thoughts on what else is going on, that would be appreciated.  Sure, we can only ever get concrete information through flips, but the more framework and context we hang on people by talking, then the more meaning and information we gain from the flips.


EDIT: Sweet!  Eph answered my question!  Of course, he also gave me some other things to talk about.

Ignore all that hasn't answered the question stuff, and I'll post my next reply shortly.

[Excal]

Alright Eph, this is veering away from winning this game and more to general theory, but I'd like to think that if you're town, helping you stay alive is good for winning this game, and if you're not town, then you'll be getting all of this advice anyways.

First off, yeah.  We're more likely to hit town than scum on day 1.  It's kinda like how when you run artillery you're more likely to hit the middle of nowhere than anything you want to hit.  So, you do what the artillery folks do.  You look at where you hit as opposed to what you wanted to hit, line up the sites again, and hopefully do better with more knowledge.  Basically, we screw up early in the game, so that hopefully we screw up less as the game goes on.  If you never make that first shot because you're afraid of being wrong, then you'll never have the knowledge you need to make the later shots count.  So, our willingness to toss people on the block isn't because we think we're right, but because we think it's our best chance of being right later.  (Though, being right now would be sweet)

This leads into point the second.  Why did Meeple vote for you?  Because you deflected the questions sent at you instead of answering.  That's scummy work, and looks bad.  And on Day 1, you jump on what looks the worst because as has been pointed out, there's not a hell of a lot to go on, and the person who gets jumped on will basically be informed random selection.

Third: Don't worry too much about people giving Rat/Tom/Bard a bye for starting discussion.  Hell, half the time the person starting discussion is a leading contender for the block on Day 1, and usually any good will gathered solely from that is evaporated by Day 2.

Fourth: Yes, a lot of what we did early on was done through roles.  We've gotten better at this since then, and roles play less of a part now.  Well...  at least, I like to think we've gotten better at this since then.  Regardless, this stance is death for the game because that means there's no point to talking as the only thing that matters is who got a role, how well they use it, and woe befall the poor vanilla townie, who lives solely to provide a target for the scum, and more voting muscle behind the all important cop.

Finally, I do mind the explaination of joke votes for two reasons.  One, it makes it look like you've written more than you actually have.  Given that the ability to write text without writing content is a key one for scum, I tend to find that anything which makes it easier to do that is questionable at best, scummy at worst.  Also, this is a large game with a lot of text to read.  Sticking in excess information does nothing to help in reading and understanding positions.

[EvilTom]

Ok back, checking in and reading through. Might take a while, pages and pages..

[Lord Ephraim]

First off, yeah.  We're more likely to hit town than scum on day 1.  It's kinda like how when you run artillery you're more likely to hit the middle of nowhere than anything you want to hit.  So, you do what the artillery folks do.  You look at where you hit as opposed to what you wanted to hit, line up the sites again, and hopefully do better with more knowledge.  Basically, we screw up early in the game, so that hopefully we screw up less as the game goes on.  If you never make that first shot because you're afraid of being wrong, then you'll never have the knowledge you need to make the later shots count.  So, our willingness to toss people on the block isn't because we think we're right, but because we think it's our best chance of being right later.  (Though, being right now would be sweet)

Yes, I agree but my point is that you learn a lot more after the first day.  For instance, you can look who was nightkilled, review why they're were nightkilled (was it random or was because they knew something about them).  Of course, you then learned the alignment of those lynched/kill, leaving more knowledge and develop the voting patterns

This leads into point the second.  Why did Meeple vote for you?  Because you deflected the questions sent at you instead of answering.  That's scummy work, and looks bad.  And on Day 1, you jump on what looks the worst because as has been pointed out, there's not a hell of a lot to go on, and the person who gets jumped on will basically be informed random selection.

All Meeple mentioned was my bad grammar and a "bad feeling about Eph"  I didn't really explain myself until after Meeple posted, unless he views my random bitching about Mafia, which is completely off-topic.  The assumtion I made was a vote and poorly explained why, which is different from "deflecting questions instead of answering"

Finally, I do mind the explaination of joke votes for two reasons.  One, it makes it look like you've written more than you actually have.  Given that the ability to write text without writing content is a key one for scum, I tend to find that anything which makes it easier to do that is questionable at best, scummy at worst.  Also, this is a large game with a lot of text to read.  Sticking in excess information does nothing to help in reading and understanding positions.

Ooookay, in other words, don't fucking post unless it's very very important. I know that, but it seems kind of boring, and the idea Alex gave for this game was a more lighten up environment. But if it's cluttering up the board, then why do people joke around in the first place?


Back to the game, there's only one real piece of solid evidence and that is Soppy.  I don't think a role would cause someone to inflict damage on self, so it seems it came from another person.  I think my keeping him alive for now will help see if it really is a self-inflicting role (if no else has a pretty flower~ on day 2, it was either roleblocked or it's from Soppy himself). Of course there is always the rolecop's responsiblity.  My question is does this role feel more of town, scum or vig?  If Soppy is killed and turns out to be scum, then the role is clearly in town/vigs favor then we can use this to our advantage.  I'm stating the oboious, but right now he's our real lead.

[Nitori]

Andrew, at that point, I believed Tom to still be the best choice, since I did perceive Bardiche's misinterpretation as a not overly scummy one, and that the 'rolefishing' by Captain K and Meeple to not have gone to not deep enough of a level to be an effective smokescreen to communication. As for right now, I want to look at some of the lighter people - namely Eph/K/Shale.

As for now, the main topic of discussion seems to be Eph's post and random mafia philosophy. Okay~. Like many have said before, Eph's post is very much based on assumptions of what Tom would do as scum, and offers no insight as to any particular weak arguments he may have made. His followup explanation isn't all that satisfactory either, since it still doesn't deal with Tom's actual argument much. That being said, there's already been a lot of people pursuing him, so I don't particularly see a need to add to that at this time. Excal does seem a little overly harsh on his last point, though, since so far it really doesn't seem that much lighter, as an observation.

Captain K...I find it really hard to say anything about him for some reason. At first, I did discount the role speculation since this is a drastically different mafia environment than we're used to. On the other hand, it seems more like he's going after the "Minor Abilities" stated in the first post, which aren't supposed to do much, rather than standard mafia roles. Rolefishing is bad, but I wonder exactly what kind of roles Captain is fishing for. I'd like Captain to clarify this, and also to for him to do something in the way of finding actual scum targets soon~.

Shale...hasn't existed since page 2 and hasn't really contributed anything to the discussion at this point. I'm going to toss him a poke to say some things and wait for Captain K's response.

##UNVOTE: EvilTom
##VOTE: Shale

[Bardiche]

About the flower...

I was thinking. Whoever Smashvotes the Flower-bearer gets a scum tag attached, right?

... What if the flower is a scum ability (scum getting stronger over time, Otacon?), and scum knew we were going to assume such... Reverse psychology?

Smashvoting Sopko to test this, though... I'm not sure whether the risk should be taken. But it is a thought, I'd want to get out there.

[Lord Ephraim]

I was thinking. Whoever Smashvotes the Flower-bearer gets a scum tag attached, right?

... What if the flower is a scum ability (scum getting stronger over time, Otacon?), and scum knew we were going to assume such... Reverse psychology?

Smashvoting Sopko to test this, though... I'm not sure whether the risk should be taken. But it is a thought, I'd want to get out there.

Good point, and this effect has to happen on Olimar among all people (which does give the gut feeling of a self-inflicting role because Olimar deals with flowers~), but if it turns out Soppy was town,  you made yourself look like you made a honest mistake of "Sorry, my bad" but really mean to smash the crap out of him.  I think it's better to leave him alone and see if this effect stays; if it does, then I'll happy agree with you and spam B until Soppy eats the edge.

[Carthrat]

Wait, what? That's not a good point at all, that's about as bad a WIFOM as you can get.

The flower tells us nothing at all about alignment. It gives no indication as to Soppy's guilt or innocence. Why would him *keeping* it be a sign of scummitude, too? o-O

[Yakumo]

Well, Bardiche, that seems like a good point... until you remember he HAS to have a Smashvote to be hammered, so really, all it does is leave him open later to getting smacked with less votes, it doesn't stop us from putting together a consensus on him, since normal votes can't kill period.  We could wait for a consensus vote if we wanted to, even if this put him at 1000%.  Just because he has the flower doesn't mean we can't treat him as normal, basically.

I guess an easier way to say it is: the person that smashvotes Soppy only gets looked at funny if they do it too quickly.  If we get a group together voting on him, then the person smashing him won't get any more scrutinized than normal, I would expect.  Thus, it wouldn't protect a scum to have it on them.

[Luther Lansfeld]

I really don't think that's a particularly good idea. It seems like a pretty trivial reason to try to lynch someone. (For all that there are other reasons why I consider Sopko a candidate for lynching, that is most certainly not one of them.)

[Bardiche]

Well, Sopko seems to speak reason so I don't want to eliminate them just because of the flower~ It could also be a night role usable each night, so then you'd pick a random target, right? And it's all possible that whoever gave the flower doesn't know what it did...

Still, I'm rather worried the flower gives some l33t powers once the day ends, or that it is indeed what Otacon referenced to as being "terrorists getting stronger"... Or wait.

... Wait wait.

Ending the conjecture of the flower until further information is provided...

-----

What if Otacon means the terrorists increase in number? No more than eight enemies... That means eight roles that are dangerous to Town, right, assuming Nitori is town... He has to be. I can't see any way to make it work that town are outnumbered by scum. No more than eight enemies... Hmmm... Need to think on this more....

---------

QR! Pikachu, my compadre! I haven't heard much of you yet. Just wanted to let you know, I'm thinking of you~ I'd also like to see more of you. Contribute!

----------

Ack, Rat posting. Yeah, I know it tells nothing of alignment. Just tossing it out there as a possibility.

Others posting! Double ack! No, I meant it as in... Wait, no, you're absolutely right, they'd need consensus anyway.

[Lord Ephraim]

I didn't say the flower proves Soppy's alignment, I mean the person who put the flower in the first place. (...or Soppy if was a self-inflicting role >_>)

There's still a lot unknown about it.  Is it a one-time permenant effect?  Can someone else be inflicted along with Soppy?  I'm saying we would learn more if we kept Soppy alive AT least today, because a role like this seems pretty powerful especially if the votes fly all over the place and the more we know the better.  I don't think Soppy going to speak more about the manner, and if he does, there might be the chance that he's lying.

Rat, what does WIFOM mean?

[Bardiche]

WIFOM stands for Wine In Front Of Me. As I understand it, it is reasoning between several choices, while basing your entire argumentation on what the opposition would think.

[Excal]

Note to Eph: No, don't just talk when you have something important to say.  I mean, if you don't talk, you lurk.  But if you talk too much without anything to say, then you're smokescreening.  Yeah, gotta aim for the golden mean here.

And now to the real message.

Dude, why are we regressing back into discussion on the flower?  We know what it does, but there's so many unknown variables about it, and the one person who can give any information we haven't already seen about it without revealing something about their role is Sopko, who has already stated publically that he knows nothing about it that we don't.

And while Alex is known for giving us roles without telling us that they exist (Lavian and Alicia, anyone?), that only adds to the possibilities of what this could be.  Honestly, I'm not seeing where we're getting anything fruitful from all of this, especially since it's distracting us from our primary purpose: Hunting Scum.

We've been at this for over a day now, but it feels like our sources of discussion are beginning to fade, or leads drying up, and our drive to hunt is faltering.  And that is Death!

So, let's try and get something going...  I'd like the next five posters to say who they think looks the worst, and why.

And, I'll start things off.

Right now?  It's Eph.  His commentary on people has been limited to just Rat/Tom for the most part, and he's moved away from real commentary on the people, and over to a back and forth over the flower which does distract from what we need to do.  Figure out who's scum, and which flip would help us the most.

[EvilTom]

Ok I'm back, and even trying to read the thread, I get ninja'd like 8 times. Let's try posting~

Andrew:

Tom! You've failed to notice that Alex disqualified your vote and thus still have a joke vote on me. Are you planning on acknowledging or correcting that mistake at any point?

Well, yes. But as Ciato pointed out right after your post, I haven't been able to change my vote, since I've been asleep. You'll notive I hadn't posted between that votecount and your unjustified complaint.
Though your complaint is rather odd, there's far worse on the table right now, so I'll remove the joke vote from you.
##Unvote: Andrew

Nitori
The issue Ninja'd, you unvoted me, nevermind. Was only going to say what others already have.

The flower
This has become a quagmire for discussion, and we're getting into some dangerous(ly bad) arguments now.

assuming Nitori is town... He has to be. I can't see any way to make it work that town are outnumbered by scum.

That is a very dangerous (and stupid) assumption. For many reasons. First of all, it's unlikely the mod would confirm somebody as town on the first page. Second, your assumption is based on what may be nothing more than flavour. Third, there's way too many variables. Fourth, that kind of talk is a scumtell.

Role Fishing
This is universally regarded as bad in Mafia, but Nitori makes an interesting point; it's a different mafia environment to normal. So maybe it's not as much of a sin as it normally is? I diagree about minor roles v. major roles though, as it may reveal major roles by process of elimination. So that part isn't forgiveable.
There is something that others have missed though; Captain K isn't the only one rolefishing:
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=1210.msg21728#msg21728  - Bardiche was too (though not as much as Captain K). It's interesting to note that Yakumo only mentioned when Captian K did it though, to the exclusion of Bardiche (in the immediately following post). http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=1210.msg21740#msg21740
I'm not sure what to make of that.

Otacon
This seems really obvious to me, I'm surprised it's confused other people.

Although you don't have any deadlines on this mission, the longer it goes on for, the stronger the terrorists can become.  In a situation this wacky, anything could happen, but there are probably no more than eight enemies on the field.

He's just saying that the longer the game goes on, the higher proportion of scum there will be to town. In other words, a scum vote will be worth more. Therefore they become more powerful. That's how I read it, anyway. Assuming scum don't have some Dragon Ball Z style 3 day long power-up. But this is Smash Bros, not Budokai.

Bardiche/QR
QR said she'd be gone to a con for the day, give her some time.

Shale
I second Nitori's call though, hasn't been a lot of Shale on the books. My apologies if you've been busy.

Lord Ephraim.. oh geez

That said, I feel uncomfortable with the sudden jump on the serious bandwagon EvilTom sparking this off means that he looks to prey on us weaker, less capable players.  I understand Rat is playing the same way, but really after Anom. Mafia, I don't understand him anymore.

I'm not trying to ride other people's arguments, but I like to credit people's work (force of habit, legal essay writing >.>) and there's no point repeating stuff, so I'll just reference this part:
Excal and sums it up nicely; what you said sounds scummy. http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=1210.msg21783#msg21783
And as Meeple says ( http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=1210.msg21808#msg21808 ) - you threw a vote down on me without proper reasons; it looks like you were just trying to  join a bandwagon, without having to justify your vote.
And then you say 'Meeple is picking on me for my bitchy attitude towards mafia', disregarding the actual reasons. The reasons people were picking at your post, is because you placed a vote on me, without backing it up, and then went off on a big spiel about 'Perfect way of rounding up people onto a lynch if you ask me.' and other such victimization appeals.
Excal says it better than I can:

Why did Meeple vote for you?  Because you deflected the questions sent at you instead of answering.  That's scummy work, and looks bad.

WHAT I MEANT TO SAY on my first real content post is that both Rat and Tom both kickstarted the serious talk from the joke posting.  While this may seem like a viable town strategy to start lynching scum,  this is also the easily way of getting people to believe you are town.  While I'm supisious of Rat (I mean, who isn't)  too,  Tom seems like a viable target and experenced player to get people to believe he is town early day 1.   It's overzealous thinking, but it's usually one of these people that are scum.

That's wrong. So very wrong.
You're saying that any pro-town attempt is actually a great cover-up for scum, therefore we should lynch all the pro-town players?
Because being pro-town is a good way to convince town you're town? So we should lynch those people?
And then: 'While I'm supisious of Rat (I mean, who isn't)  too,  Tom seems like a viable target and experenced player to get people to believe he is town early day 1.' - your logic contradicts yourself. Following your absurd logic of lynching the best pro-town players, you should have voted for Rat, not me, as he's a much better pro-town player than I am.Not that your argument is a good one, but you contradict yourself.

Your logic is bad, your reasoning is bad, and your motives are bad. Now onto presentation:

http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=1210.msg21797#msg21797
Comes out with the CAPS CRUISE CONTROL. Not appreciated, especially with the swearing.
Content summary: Day 1 sucks etc. and supports role fishing; here he's saying Captain K has role fished before when he wasn't scum, and therefore wouldn't be scum this time (because it's an obvious scum tactic). WIFOM, more bad arguments etc.

Overall, my point is people good at Mafia are more dangerious as scum as town, and seeing this is DAY 1, we don't KNOW anything about ANYBODY and no amount of WORDS will do us no good.  I'm not really in the mood to go through 5 pages of reading BS after the all the crap I went through in the last 3 days, so there is not much I can do.

So yeah, I don't like following standard Mafia play because it's a bunch of random bicker and it's okay if you enjoy it, but I thought this game was going to be different.  Doesn't matter now if I get knocked off now so I don't have to put up with it or last longer when it's actually FUN.

Ok, at first glance, this is a whole lot of anti-mafia emotional outburst.
But, then I remember, such a strategy can be well employed for many reasons by scum.
Filling up content-less text, distracting people from previous blunders, gaining some emotional support (as we see with Ciato), and distracting people from the issue at hand by acting as a buffer into the next argument (now we're talking about flowers again).

Ok, quick summary:
LE (Lord Ephraim) comes out of jokevote lurkerdom on page 5 with an unsubstantiated late 'bandwagon' vote on me.
When questioned about it, he avoids answering.
His logic is pointed out to be bad by Excal and Meeps.
He then spouts a whole lot of 'I hate day 1, mafia sucks' etc. spouts out a bunch of arguments that don't make sense, and then leaves his vote on me.
Finally, changes topic to the flower metagame stuff (which is helping nobody), and says Nitori must be town, based on flawed arguments.

Don't get me wrong, this isn't a revenge vote, but LE is just off-the-wall suspicious.
##Vote: Lord Ephraim

*prepares for Ninjas*
Ninja'd by Excal, shall read.

[EvilTom]

Sorry, that last part should have read Bardiche, not LE. You know what I mean >.>

[Meeplelard]

All Meeple mentioned was my bad grammar and a "bad feeling about Eph"  I didn't really explain myself until after Meeple posted, unless he views my random bitching about Mafia, which is completely off-topic.  The assumtion I made was a vote and poorly explained why, which is different from "deflecting questions instead of answering"

...what? Read my post again.

But the punctuation is not what I'm getting at, the line itself is.  The punctuation indication is just noting that due to it, its hard to understand, so if I'm misinterpreting the line, then please elaborate.

Explains the reasoning behind the punctuation thing.  Basically, its just there to say that the line felt like it was missing something crucial that could very well change the meaning of your words.  Given you haven't commented on my analysis of the line (ie assuming you meant you weren't comfortable with bandwagoning Tom), I can only assume I read it properly.

(I know I am the LAST person to question grammar, but for the record, I am not saying Bad Grammar = Scumtell!  I'm saying that key things like this can lead to misinterpretations, and if pointed out, the person who created them SHOULD put some effort in clarification.)

But that's minor...what matters is this part...

What gets me is you say you're uncomfortable with going against Tom...then vote on him anyway...and don't explain yourself.  Tossing a vote randomly on someone without an explanation is not good.  Even Alex in FE Mafia, with all his "Day 1 discussion is meaningless!" propaganda at least formed SOME reason for his votes.  If you don't give at least some reason for your votes, people are going to think weird of you.

How...much clearer should I be?  You say something about not liking the Tom Bandwagon...then go and vote for him anyway...without anything as much as an explanation.  You later explode at how people are taking Day 1 seriously (at least, that's how it felt to me.)

The last reason was that you were bitching and moaning that this wasn't the Mafia game you wanted, and its not going to be fun.  At this point, it felt like that if I wasn't bagging a scum, I'd be bagging a Townie that was likely not contributing much.  This doesn't make the move good if you are in fact town, but given we're likely kill a Town tonight (nature of Day 1, etc.), I'd rather go for someone whose showing lack of interest the way you did.

Also...I feel that there's a slight bit of hypocricy coming from Eph.

Excal calls him out for his post being short and then saying how he basically said nothing worth noting.

He questions your logic, and all that.  You more or less respond with "WAAAAAH MY POST IS TOO SHORT" sarcasm, followed by pure metagaming, then talk about Captain K's flower point, then you try to claim Day 1 Discussion is useless.  Then you bitch about Mafia in general.
Nowhere are you actually responding to why Excal Voted for you.  That post was pretty much just whining.  The general tone hit me the wrong way too.

He later...says Excal was right to vote for him, and moves along like nothing happened? Um, ok, whatever.

Right, Eph, I don't give a damn if you write a dissertation or if you just give us a few small sentences here and there when you have something to say.  What I care about is that you actually say something worth saying, and that one post of yours gave us nothing except for something that made no sense.

This is the important part.  Yes, I'm quoting Excal cause its just easier that way.  Long Posts =/= Lots of content, and Short Posts =/= Lacking Content (sad to say, I'm proof of that <_<;.) You can make short posts, fine, just make sure what you actually say in them is relevant and worthwhile.

Ooookay, in other words, don't fucking post unless it's very very important. I know that, but it seems kind of boring, and the idea Alex gave for this game was a more lighten up environment. But if it's cluttering up the board, then why do people joke around in the first place?

That's not quite what he's saying.  What he's saying is if something is obviously a joke, don't waste time justifying it.  Make the joke, its done and over with, move on.  Saying "I joke voted him cause of x and y reasons!" serves no purpose other than fluff in your post.  If you want to toss a joke or something in at the end, feel free.  But don't go hiding behind "Its Smash Brothers Mafia!" as a screen for joking.  Its still Mafia.

I mean, look at Random Mafia.  We have...the most misfit people ranging from the likes of Superman to Charmles to Zombie Cochran to Brave Sir Robin...yeah.  It was humorous and such, but the game was still treated seriously.  I don't see why this game should be any different.

The point is, you're showing you're not paying complete attention (though, you claim that's cause of real life circumstances; I'll be willing to give you the benefit of the doubt here) by claiming I made a vote on you based off 2 things, when I in fact had other reasons.  You also still haven't explained your reasons for the Tom vote, have been avoiding other questions formed at you, and generally lacking content.  My vote stands since you have yet to do anything that'd make me think otherwise.

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Regarding the flower thing...yeah, more or less agree with Ciato on this one.  I wouldn't Smashvote Soppy purely cause he's at 100% from the Flower.  I WOULD Smashvote him, however, in this particular circumstance cause I have other (if minor) reasons that I went over before.  The fact that its a Day 1 Lynch makes it a bit more desirable since its as good a lynch as any, but yeah, I'm not making any promises (if you can call it that.)

As was noted, the flower isn't that overly important; we should stop worrying about it *UNLESS* someone comes in and says "I'm announcing that I am ready to Smashvote Soppy!" or some such.  *THEN* it starts mattering, naturally.  I thought we wanted to get *AWAY* from the Flower cause it just derails the topic.  All that mattered, at best, was figuring out how it worked, and maybe keeping it in mind.

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WIFOM is Wine in Front of Me. Near as i can tell, the coin was termed from that famous scene in the Princess Bride.  For those who don't know, the situation was this:
Battle of Wits to the death.  There's two wine glasses.  One has Poison, the other does not, the poison is completely undetectable outside of drinking the glass and seeing if you live or die.  Now, the way the game worked was that one guy puts the poison into one glass, and he knows the right answer.  He puts a glass in front of himself and the opponent.  The opponent then has to guess which glass has the wine, and they both drink out of one glass, determined by the Blind player.
In the Princess Bride scene, the Blind player was going over very Mafia like ways to discover which one had the wine.  Such things involved "I cannot choose the wine in front of you, cause everyone knows only a great fool would go for what he is given! HOWEVER, you know I'm not a great fool, and thus, would have expected me to make such a move, so I can't choose the Wine in front of me either."
He basically goes on back and forth saying why he can't choose each glass, in circular logic, not getting anywhere.  I'm not going to spoil how the scene ends since most of you have probably scene it, and the outcome is part of the hilarity <_<

WIFOM is exactly that.  Its using logic works both ways.  Its guessing what Scum would do...but then noting that Scum WOULDN'T do that cause its what Scum WOULD do, therefore scum tell...except people knowing that would assume Scum wouldn't be too stupid to fall for it, making it easy to get under the radar...yeah, its basically a never ending series of circular logic makes the point by itself meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

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And then Excal and Bard Ninja me! Jerks!  Feel the wrath of Ivysaur's Taunt!

...and as I note THAT Ninja'ing...Tom *AND* Andrew Ninja me at the same time. Um, wow, CLEARLY THIS IS SORT OF CONSPIRACY TO GET ME!
...or I just suck at being concise <.<;

...yeah, not my day...

[Meeplelard]

...also, I don't know how I thought Andrew Ninja'd me.  Must have seen his name in Tom's post or something and assumed cause it was two posts, it was two people.  Blech, maybe I'm just losing it.  Stupid lack of edit button...