Super Mafia Bros Brawl - Game Topic (GAME OVER)

[Bardiche]

I realize I called Taishyr out on not answering my question, yet proved him the same discourtesy.

Bardiche, a question: did you receive any other messages last night? Also, Sing was your minor ability?

No, it said my investigation failed because I was roleblocked. Sing was my minor ability and a one-time use: It's a bit odd, to me, because it was (sort of) promised in the opening post that minor abilities would be... Insignificant to the game itself, although a roleblock (even single use) seems pretty powerful to me. Guess Alex didn't think the same.

Anyway, I am supposing this means that there is absolutely no doubt about Rat's role as a busdriver. Ciato confirmed this before we lynched her, and you confirm it now.


Oh, I'd also like to mention that the target of my investigation was Andrew. Funny how those things work out.

[Taishyr]

I decided that blocking you past that point wouldn't be as effective since, if you were the killer, they'd have the other scummers act as the hitman from there. Arguably, they could have anticipated this and kept you on it! But I was hoping for a more anticipatory factor.

Rat, that's why I'm confused; night 1's other roleblock should have gone off, but no one said anything about it. Maybe Fnorder? But it seems unlikely, to me, and as such... mrf.

If you suspect me so, why didn't you pick me to try and take the theoretical night attack, out of curiousity?


Re: Discworld; Well, I found the parallels and the non-parallels amusing and aggravating both. Let it not be said I shy away from self-referential irony!

It honestly seems like I either just reply on a completely different level (not necessarily a higher one, by any means!) which just doesn't synch with anything else, as my way of getting stuff going. (I refer to day 3's logic table here.) People never seem to consider what I'm saying in general until I come under suspicion. Clearly the solution is to act incredibly stupid every day 1! <(>_>)> But seriously... most of the time when I get to replying you guys have hashed out most-all of what I've seen, and so I try to dissect the info a different way and see if it gets anyone else's thoughts going.

Is this what I posed under in Discworld Mafia? Yes.
Is this what I actually normally do, scum or town? Yeah, this is how I work at things.

Deem it suspicious - I can't blame you for it, but I also know attempting to work around the topics like you guys do rarely works as well for me. As such, I try to provide in other ways.

...ng. night 1 why do you torment me so.


I think I know what you were hinting at, Strago, after some thought. I'm... half tempted to tell you not to say it. All I can say is that if I guess correctly, Carthrat goes to being a likely townie for me. Mrf, wouldn't that be icing on the cake.


Bardiche post. Need to think on it.

[Bardiche]

I am going to sleep now but I wanted this to be out first:

I strongly advise against lynching Rat or me at this point in time.[/i]

Not until we've milked out of our current knowledge as much as we can. I say this because of the following reasoning:

If I were to be lynched today, I will turn up as town Cop. I guarantee you this. This, however, would cast suspicion to Carthrat (unless sanity is revealed upon demise, which would kind of narrow it down). However, assuming that Alex will shed no light on that (Nitori was only revealed to be a cop and nothing was said of sanity), it will not clear Carthrat, nor will it automatically declare him scum. You will be at an impasse with one less town.

If Carthrat were to be lynched today, and Carthrat turns up as town, the same as above applies, almost. It does not immediately make me scum because my sanity could be bad, but it doesn't make me town either at all. You will still only have my word that I am a townie, and the only way to confirm this is to either investigate me (which we do not seem to have - El Cid claims Regular Miller, Rat claims Bus Driver (confirmed), Andrew claims Bus Driver, Taishyr claims roleblocker (more or less confirmed), Strago claims Miller (but never specified if that was his sole role) and I claim Cop. Excal made no claim yet.
If Carthrat turns up scum, it still doesn't clear me, because as you yourself reasoned, it is possible that Rat is scum and I am scum, and we're trying to get town cred here. I, of course, deny this as a possibility, but I sincerely doubt my denial will mean much at the time.

-------

So given that neither a Rat lynch nor a Bard lynch will immediately shed light on the alignment of the other, I strongly suggest we use as much of this day as possible to get as much evidences as we can to avoid a potential LYLO. I'd like to be alive at the end of this game, if at all possible, and win with the town. I understand that is asking a lot given your suspicions of me, and I am still willing to lay down my life for the greater good, but as I reason, I strongly believe that my demise will do you no good at all.

There's no reason we should lose despite the set backs from earlier. I think that that is enough reason to be determined to win this game - Just to prove that despite the setbacks, we are still able to reason out the liars from the truthful people.

[Strago]

Okay. Well. This is what I have to contribute.

My full role, including the portion that I was hesitant until now to reveal, is Miller Vigilante. On Night 1, I killed Tom. Pure stroke of luck, there. I found something about him pretty dubious and I chose to take a shot largely in the dark. On Night 2 I got a bit cocky and went on another hunch, vigging Fnorder. He hadn't been around much and I was hoping I'd knocked out some textbook lurkerscum. Obviously that didn't work. On Night 3, I attempted to vig Andrew. Ciato's last words combined with an uneasy feeling I'd had for a while made it seem like a decent idea.

Obviously it didn't work out like I had intended, him still being alive and all.

I was told that I couldn't kill Andy because he was nowhere to be found. At first I suspected him of having some sort of Hider-type (given the flavor I received) passive ability. Bulletproof or potentially semi-bulletproof status. Now, this kind of thing would not necessarily be damning; either scum or town could certainly have that sort of role. This is why I tested the waters for a roleclaim, and funnily enough I got the one response I wanted: Andrew claimed Bus Driver, and I immediately thought "Liar! I know you can do something other than that, so why aren't you mentioning it?" Even if he had been a Bus Driver, conveninently impossible to deny since he hadn't used his power past, he could have both that and a semi-Bulletproof ability. The other two scum we've seen flip certainly had dual-roles.

But now it appears that Carthrat switched Andrew and Bardiche. Tai and Bard confirm this by supplying and corroborating the roleblockery monkey business. Tai, however, got a PM result from Roleblocking that said he blocked Andrew. And Carth says something suggesting foreknowledge that people acting upon his busdriven targets wouldn't know that their actions had been redirected. So it seems, in fact, that the person I could not find and was therefore unable to kill was... Bardiche.

I'm unsure of what to do with this, now. Tai says that his roleblocking shouldn't protect his target from NK attempts, and certainly that would make for quite a few Doc-types in one game. Has Bardiche, then, been lying about his role? I'm sort of bewildered at this point.

Role madness indeed.

[Taishyr]

No. You couldn't find him because of me, Strago. Agh. I'm not going to dodge around this because if you guys run off there being another hidden something-or-other it'll get too stupid and it'll have been my fault.

Full claim time; I'm town's Jailer, Roleblocker/Doctor.

This is why I didn't block you any further, Rat; because I would have protected you as well. Since I thought you were scum and all? Was hoping the Vig would go for you and check my gut. The rationale over you being the shooter didn't help at all.

Furthermore. With a check from Alex? Apparently no one gets notified if I save someone. Not me, not the target. I did not know this until today.

So Rat's been the target of my aggression because I've been thinking I blocked the kill...

...when I think, with this information, I -saved- Rat from EvilTom. It's the only way the dots connect, here.

So. Harangue me if you will, but I considered trying to conceal the existence of the third doctor from scum far more than worth the risk of confusion. At this point, however, analysis of the data cannot be done by town without knowing this.

-_- ai.

[Taishyr]

(Also, if you don't get my role, think about it for a moment. I inhale you. You can't do squat! ...but to kill my absorbed target, you need to kill me first. Yeah. Roleblocker/Doctor.)

[Strago]

Well, it looks like I fucked up but good. God dammit. Great job needlessly revealing two town roles, me. I'm going to sleep before I can do any more damage.

Oof, alright, no. The scenario in which Rat was the scum NK target on Night 1 does indeed make that night finally make sense, and makes Carth look like town to boot. Grarghledammit. The only thing I can take away from this at the moment is that for some reason I suspect Excal of being scum all the more, knowing that he has a Docbust and that there were originally three Doc-types in play. Yeah, that's about all I've got right now. Don't play mafia tired.

[Taishyr]

It's why I tried to warn you in my post that revealing wasn't likely needed. I didn't help the situation at all, though, Strago, so no blaming yourself, really.

And yes, it gives Rat a definite town skew. With this, Bardiche/Andrew/El Cid/Excal are the remaining, with Excal's ability getting odd looks from me. I'm still looking this over, but Excal's looking oddest here. Of the remaining three, who knows? Bardiche has an argument, so does Andrew, so does El Cid. Mrf mrf mrf.  Ask me, I'd go for Excal/Bardiche or Excal/El Cid, but speculating on scum pairings isn't really productive since it leads to bad analysis; such relations can be faked. (...>_> Et tu, Rat? Then fall, Discworld.)

[Ranmilia]

It is now Day 4.  With 7 alive, each vote is worth 34%.

The stage for Day 4 is Luigi's Mansion!  Gameplay effects other than awesome music are unknown...

Bardiche (Jigglypuff): 34% - El Cid
Taishyr (Kirby): 1% - No one
You're all really boring, vote more: 666% - Boo
Snake?  Snake?!  SNAAAAKE!: 0% - Otacon
Barack Obama: 999% - Everyone

[Excal]

Alright, back from work.

Hmm...  guess it's time to come clean and tell you guys the last role.

You guys have been wondering about why I made such a point of making sure everyone knew Captain K was scum food.  The simple answer is this.  Because I have no docbusting power.  daytime or not.  I am Vanilla Town.  The wording was basically there to scare doctors away from him, and make sure town didn't waste any resources on the guy.

I was hoping that I wouldn't have to come clean on that until after the game ended, but we're at role claim logic puzzle time, and my role being in doubt makes the puzzle look wonky.  So, here is the whole truth.

[Carthrat]

Well, Excal is kinda suspicious to me now. Cap'n K was a shoe-in for lynch during that day, for starters, so this logic about 'scaring off would-be docs protecting him' doesn't fit to me. Furthermore, pulling that demonstrates an incredible lack of regard for how he himself will be perceived.

There's no way I can see what he did as a good idea, in short. But it's a stupid thing to do on either side so uh yeah what, do not really understand what he was trying to accomplish here. Defaulting to 'weird and silly moves are more likely scum than town.'

<->

Andy: Bussing is has the potential to be a strong investigative tool providing you yourself don't die, Andy. With Ciato throwing vitriol at you at the end of the last day, I strongly doubted you would have been targeted for NK, and I think you could've been pretty certain of that yourself.

I also think it's a pretty solid protective tool, seeing as you pick whoever you want to survive and someone you think is not likely to be a scum target. Keep in mind that *if one of them dies, you can be almost certain of the others alignment*.

I'm aware that there are risks involved with busdriving, but I think the potential payoff is greater than that, at least when you have a fairly large crowd to hide in. I get the impression that you haven't really thought the potential uses for this ability through, and don't actually think someone would avoid using it in this game.

<->

Jailer Tai explains his actions to date. So I'm stuck with my original thoughts on him, which is that he's scummy for a few non-contributions and day1 votetrain derailment. I find it ironic that I'm attributing towniness to people because they attacked me with vigor based on roleactions.

<->

Cid, I can't actually remember how your ##shoot works and finding out where you mention it is a pain, can you do it more than once each day?

<->

The random voteness is probably Cap'n K from beyond the grave (Luigi's Mansion, get it.) Funny, I laughed.

[AndrewRogue]

Mrmph. It is... frustrating to say the least that all the roleclaiming ended up bringing us, at some level, back to square one. We got some information out of it and solved some puzzles, which is always good, but for now... the cost remains a bit questionable.

I am very much inclined to agree with the "WTF Excal sentiment." While I guess it beats lying and then just letting it sit out there, this puts us in an awkward position. Your actions were so insane that it is really hard not to see them as intending to emulate a townie explosion. I... ugh. Your case devolves into major WIFOM in my head.

Bardiche... my earlier statements stand. Looking back through the topic, I have also found two other problems I have with him. First and foremost, his attack against Carth today was pretty oddly phrased, especially looking back on his earlier arguments. For example:

If Rat is a Townie busdriver, I should be able to survive tonight. If Rat is NOT, then I'll certainly die. My death COULD be accounted to a lucky Scum kill getting the one they thought most likely for Rat to switch me with, but frankly I don't think I'll live through the night.

That seems like a pretty dramatic shift in his stance. He goes from believing that a townie Rat would protect him at night and then... gets on Rat's case for protecting him.

Furthermore, it occurs to me that Bardiche's claims that he both roleblocked Carth and investigated Ciato doesn't sit right with me at all. I can't recall a game where we've had a night role capable of doing multiple night actions. If I'm misunderstanding the sequence of events there though, feel free to clarify. More circumstantial than anything, but it certainly doesn't well with me.

As it stands, given Bardiche's random flip-flop and the discomfort I've already expressed with him, I'm not seeing a reason to hold back here.

##Vote: Bardiche

I could probably be convinced to swing to Excal as well. As it stands, I definitely don't trust either of them at this juncture, and they really do look to be the best lynches.

Bleh. It is too late to really try and mull over this stuff anymore. I'm gonna sleep and see if I have any other epiphanies.

[Carthrat]

After quite a bit of rereading, I still think that Bardiche's early play matches up closely with his role, and more importantly, isn't the sort of play I would attribute to a mistake-making scum over a somewhat inelegant cop. His later play is something else (it literally reeks of someone with something to hide, particularly the apologetic tone and the rather weird response to Strago's accusation yesterday.)

However I would ultimately rather go for the Excal lynch today. The serious weirdness at the end of day 2 is one thing- this statement is another.

Shieldbreaker?  It breaks the shield around a person, leaving them unable to be defended at night, and therefore completely vulnerable to anything that targets them.

Interesting that I'd use that on someone I was intending to Lynch, don't you think, Rat?

Yeah uh if that wasn't a statement that was going to sow confusion in me (and believe me, it had me wondering what the heck you were on about for quite a while) then I don't know what it is. Another ridiculous aspect of his plan is that... two docs had just died, I'm not sure "oh I better convince docs not to protect him" is a valid line of thought at all. And, well. Lynch All Liars. You guys should know that one.

##Vote: Excal

[Bardiche]

Furthermore, it occurs to me that Bardiche's claims that he both roleblocked Carth and investigated Ciato doesn't sit right with me at all. I can't recall a game where we've had a night role capable of doing multiple night actions. If I'm misunderstanding the sequence of events there though, feel free to clarify. More circumstantial than anything, but it certainly doesn't well with me.

Neither have I. I still don't distrust myself based on this, though. Moreover, it's not role tied. Will you listen? I'm saying it's my Minor Ability[/u][/i] that allowed me to roleblock. My flavor text was that I sang people to sleep and rifled through their pockets. Alex never specified I couldn't use Sing on someone else in the mean time, although it could be that he actually meant it as such but allowed it because he never specifically stated I couldn't do so.

Why I turn on Rat from town to scum? Because I can't help but consider each and every possibility, although with Taishyr and Strago's latest revelations I am tempted to believe that Rat is, indeed, pretty damn Townie. The only way I can see Rat being scum still is if Strago, Taishyr and Rat are scum all three of them, but... Well, their stories match up to seem pretty town-like. I'm strongly inclined to suppose these three are all town.

Now that leaves us Excal and El Cid. These two I am more wary of than Andrew. Why? El Cid claimed Regular Miller, Excal claimed Regular Townie. They are proposing that of all 18 players, with role madness, they happen to be the unlucky two who are Regulars, with one being Miller and one being Townie. Furthermore, with Andrew's claim, it turns out that there is no framer, leading me to believe that either Ciato got bussed with a scum at the time, or I am indeed a cop of questionable sanity.

At the moment, though, I find it more questionable that Excal pretended to have a Daytime Minor Ability and additionally claims to be Regular Townie.

However, El Cid does basically the same, with having a gun shooting as well. I'm... Not sold on the idea that both are simply roleless, especially Excal because it seems altogether odd to me that Excal would be a regular townie with no abilities at all. (unless he has a minor ability? rolefishing, bad bard)

##VOTE: El Cid

Because I want some clarification on whether or not you are a regular Miller with nothing else or... what. Because it seems a bit too damn convenient to me, especially since we've now figured out my role is most likely either paranoid or insane.

[Carthrat]

Furthermore, with Andrew's claim, it turns out that there is no framer, leading me to believe that either Ciato got bussed with a scum at the time, or I am indeed a cop of questionable sanity.

You uh didn't expect a framer to just *tell* us, did you? o-O

I uh yeah, am suddenly reconsidering my vote after that, especially seeing as it's perfectly plausible that someone out there would have no exciting role at all *and* that I have had pretty much no problems with Cid all game in the slightest. You don't even have a shred of a case on him, man!

[Carthrat]

Also, you seem to spend most of that post criticizing Excal, and then jump onto Cid instead? o-O

##Unvote, ##Vote: Bardiche yeah good work there, consider my mind changed. Excal has done questionable stuff this game and I can't see someone weighing up the choice between him and Cid, and honestly thinking "yep Cid looks scummier to me." Other candidates than him? Certainly, but not that one.

[Bardiche]

Huh, I certainly don't get the playstyle at all yet, then. I think this is what you call "pressure vote", the stunt you all pulled on me the first day to get me to "defend myself".

Am I... somehow missing things here?

Also, yeah, apparently I wasn't thinking because that possibility is pretty questionable. I forgot that it'd be a pretty darn lucky stroke if it happened twice and.. Blah, I keep messing up. I've no excuses, I am being stupid.

[Carthrat]

This is not day one! This is day four! We are done with bullshit votes that exist only to get people talking and springboard discussion and provide fodder for later.

I would happily chatter away with you for hours on mafia theory after the game or something, but suffice to say this a time to actually push lynches forward and make strong arguments- of which there have been regrettably little for most of the day.

It's not to vote people to get them talking (and worst of all, blatantly admit this is the purpose, not to mention fishing for a claim. Unless you have some ulterior motive- which I cannot possibly conceive of, given your existing claims- I can't see a reason to try and strangle a claim out of Cid at this juncture. If he has something it's up to him to reveal it.)

[Bardiche]

##WITHDRAW VOTE: El Cid

Then that is a misunderstanding on my behalf.

Ugh, I have nothing to defend myself with for rolefishing there. I picked El Cid above Excal because people were already piling on Excal, and I supposed if he had any role he'd want to reveal he would do it once he'd near the smashcount.

After Game discussion sounds good. I'll need it.

[Taishyr]

Okay. Um.

Rat, I get your point, but... I think you're seriously pressing your own way of playing the game onto this situation and saying that it's proof he's scum. You do not approve of votes in this manner, but in point of fact Bardiche raises a valid point; El Cid's still somewhat nebulous and it would be useful to gain full confirmation from him of this. Bardiche wants an answer, is emphasizing this with his vote. You... now declare your own opinion as a maxim here? I think you're definitely heading down the wrong line of thought, especially since you've hit him to where he's Smashable. I just... ngh. I can't agree with this line of thought at all.

Myself, I'm looking at Alex.

Aside from Alex, I'm looking at Excal primarily (skirted around Cap'n K day 1, referenced in the quote below; claims to have missed him when the discussion around him was rather ubiquitous).

Bardiche and Andrew have a few things I'm wondering about, too, but... ghm. I really am banking that Excal's one of the scum, with all that's been piled up on the stack and then this post I'm referencing.

##Vote: Excal

[Carthrat]

I don't have 'proof'. I just have Bardiche making a post that seems pretty wildly illogical to me, and is dominated by a not insignificant amount of conjecture based on roles that is not really very solid. It's a virtual comedy of errors to me.

I'll admit that I generally take votes to assume "I want this guy dead" regardless of what reason someone gives later at this point in the game.

<->

Well. I've spent a while trying to decide whether I want to switch back to Excal or not. I'm going to- but only because in the grand scheme of things, both Bardiche and Excal have done some pretty irrational things, but B has a better redeeming explanation than Excal, and I think Tai has a point in that I acted rather hastily.

##Unvote, ##Vote: Excal

<->

On a completely unrelated note, I don't think Strago should kill tonight if we wind up mislynching. I suspect there are two scum remaining (due to the numbers of the game) and a misplaced kill tonight would end the game if we don't hit scum today.

[Taishyr]

Oh, and this post in reply to Strago's request for roleclaims...

Strago, hope you don't mind if I want to think a bit before saying yea or nay to your invite, but I'm not in a particularily trusting mood at the moment.  Anyways, new info to light, and, obviously there'll need to be more subtle reading than simply who defended who to find any truth.

... the caution over being a vanilla townie? Yeah, I'm not seeing this too well; I get that Strago at that point had an argument for being town, but... uh... it took a while for you to fess up that... you had nothing. Pot calling kettle black here, but I had something to hide; specifically being a doctor. You can understand why I'd want to keep that under wraps with the death of our first two doctors, I'd hope. I just really fail to see the caution if you really are vanilla, so...


As for the remaining scum (since I'm forced to agree with Rat's guess that two scum are present), while I'm thinking of it and as a reminder, El Cid = Andrew > Bardiche >>> Carthrat >(n)> Strago. I could still be wrong on Rat, but the pieces fit this way, now, and they didn't fully with him as killer. I'd need to read to get a more solidified answer between El Cid and Rat; right now I'm guessing Bardiche is Paranoid Cop, but he's hardly out of the woods just yet.

[Taishyr]

*El Cid and ANDREW.

Sheesh. Past midnight, pink fluffball becomes pumpkinball.

[Ranmilia]

It is now Day 4.  With 7 alive, each vote is worth 34%.

The stage for Day 4 is Luigi's Mansion!  Gameplay effects other than awesome music are unknown...

Bardiche (Jigglypuff): 64% - El Cid, Andrew, Carthrat
Taishyr (Kirby): 1% - No one
Excal (Marth): 64% - Taishyr, Carthrat, Rat
El Cid (Falco): 0% - Bardiche
EXCAL LIED: 666% - TOWNIES DIED
Strago reads scum to cops and kills people at night: 666% - Does no one find this remotely suspicious?
Carthrat screws with all your night actions: 666% - And doesn't say anything until late game
Andrew, possibly scarier, refuses to screw with all your night actions: 666% - Plus he voted the mod in LYLO last game, kill him
Bardiche is lying about his role: 666% - You don't need to be a cop to make up investigations
El Cid is a furry: 666% - First to claim miller is always scum
Lurking Spider Webbing in the Darkness: 666% - That would be Taishyr
If you get spooked by Boo: 666% - You deserve it

[Carthrat]

That is probably the funniest mafia post ever.

And it's a votecount. *sobs*