Idiot of the Day

[Monkeyfinger]

I suppose that's true. I just object to you using VC as a shining example of why the list is retarded, when in actual fact it's one of the few media such a complaint can legitly be leveled against.

[Hunter Sopko]

More that it flaunts these games as having gay content while giving absolutely no clue as to what that content is.

[DjinnAndTonic]

From the watchdog list:

Army of Two:
Homosexual Themes: Although never spoken of, undertones of homosexuality are present. Weaponry in the game can be decorated to be anything from diamond encrusted to gold plated. You share a parachute with your partner, and the riot shield system allows one player to use a shield or car door as portable cover while the other cuddles up close behind and dispenses “lead” from his “iron”.


Damn, we are in trouble - decorative weaponry is the first step to homosexuality! And apparently even the act of standing too close to another male is enough to merit "Homosexual Themes"...

-Djinn

[Grefter]

Be fair, Army of Two is gayyyyyyyyyy.   It just wasn't intended to be.

The list is still stupid though because OH NOES SAEV CHILDREN FROM UNDERSTANDING THAT PEOPLE PUT PENISES IN MENS ANUS.

Edit - Oh yeah IotD just for their webdesign.  EWWW at embedding PDFs in whatever neater tech replaced frames.

[superaielman]

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSWAT01061220081209

Elliot Spitzer takes one look at this guy and shakes his head at the raw stupid involved. Selling the President's former senate seat? Really?

[Shale]

Selling the President's former senate seat on your office phone, when a special prosecutor has almost certainly tapped your phone line.

[NotMiki]

A little insight here:

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/247380.php

"My sister works in the legislative and advocacy circles in Illinois and she's said for a long time that Blago is simply not a bright guy. People in Chicago have repeatedly saud that he's like George W. Bush but not as bright."

And to corroborate the aforementioned stupidity thing, check out this little gem:

http://clusterstock.alleyinsider.com/2008/12/alleged-blago-hoped-to-shake-down-warren-buffett

Later in the conversation, ROD BLAGOJEVICH stated that if he appoints Senate Candidate 4 to the Senate seat and, thereafter, it appears that ROD BLAGOJEVICH might get impeached, he could “count on [Senate Candidate 4], if things got hot, to give [the Senate seat] up and let me parachute over there.”

Yeah, once you appoint someone to the Senate, they're totally gonna take the bullet for you, not only by protecting you with their power, but also by giving you their seat.  yeah.

EDIT:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2008-12-09/who-allegedly-said-it/

Wonderful.

[hinode]

The fact that the previous Governor is ALSO in jail for federal corruption charges just makes this all the more rediculous.  Not to mention the fact that his own party threatened to impeach him.

Urk.  Chicago politics make Washington and the rest of the US look squeaky clean by comparison.

[Hunter Sopko]

Oh Chicago politics...

Illinois: Home of the Daly Family.

[NotMiki]

Hey!  Only 5 of the last 15 governors of Illinois have been indicted!  And one of them was even acquitted!

[NotMiki]

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/breaking-news/story/805585.html

Teen suspended for cyber-bullying her teacher!  Calling a teacher the worst teacher you've ever met is totally worthy of a three day suspension plus being booted from all your AP classes!  I'm shocked they didn't just expel the bitch!

[Dark Holy Elf]

Speaking as someone in the education system, schools take cyber-bullying very seriously these days. The fact that the student made a web page and with it, 'sought comments from other students to express their ''feelings of hatred'' toward the teacher' was and should be treated seriously by the school - the suspension sounds about right. Now, granted, I can't see how being removed from any AP class except the one with the teacher she threatened is at all addressing her offence, so yeah, that's either just stupid or we don't know the full story there, i.e. the article is phrasing the situation poorly (doesn't look like they attempted to find the school's side).

[NotMiki]

It's true the article may not be presenting the school's side fairly, but if no serious fact is omitted, I'm deeply troubled by the idea that a student venting anger in a non-school setting who made nothing even close to an explicit threat could be punished for it.  I think calling what she wrote cyber-bullying is an extreme overreaction.  In high school I've said things at least as bad about my teachers; I doubt there are many (or any) who could say they haven't.  I wouldn't classify that as 'bullying' and I'm not gonna call it 'cyber-bullying' just because it was written online.

[Cotigo]

Regardless, there is a horrible tendancy in the manditory education systems to overpunish or punish poorly.  This sort of display is something that needs addressing, sure, but even suspension is a bit harsh, if all she did was say he was the worst teacher she'd had.  If no threats of violence or even threats of nonviolent action were made, this is highly unwarranted and impunes on the student's right to free speech.  I agree completely with Miki--this is fucking retarded.  The school may have a side that shines some light on it but I'll place my money on it not justifying the actions in the least.

[Grefter]

To lazy to read the article.  I will say though that I remember as a student the feeling of absolute powerlessness over having to deal with a poor quality teacher was one of the most frustrating things I dealt with in the education system as you know the people that it actually mattered about.  Removing the ability to even discuss that is a disgusting piece of oppression in an already massively over pressured and repressed portion of the population which is starting to dawn on the fact that they have no power and have power just in reach.

Shit like this is one of the factors that leads to actual violent outbreaks.  If not with that student, maybe from another that is effected by the story or the implied threat.  Edit - Implied threat of the people in power, not the powerless student that can't even talk about quality your instructors.

[Dark Holy Elf]

There's a bit of a difference between saying you can't stand a teacher or think he or she is bad at teaching (the right to which nobody is trying to take away, so don't try to paint this as FIRST AMMENDMENT RIGHTS!!!) and creating a web site dedicated to your hate of that person and encouraging others to join in. The word "hatred" + inciting others towards it? I would indeed consider the latter to be bullying; if you don't, then it shows you're pretty out of touch with what bullying is and how it's defined these days. And spare me any whining about that definition when the studies are pretty clear that shit like this is tremendously damaging to the people who are the victims of it.

Now, yes, I'd expect most teachers to be more thick-skinned than most students and not be too bothered by this, but schools have to set a standard and not allow it, period - you can't tailor the punishment to how badly the person is affected.

The school may have a side that shines some light on it but I'll place my money on it not justifying the actions in the least.

The article gives no impression it even went to the other side or even did any real research into the situation. It's reporting just the contents of the lawsuit, which if you know anything about lawsuits, you should realise are going to be a very coloured version of events.

Also,

She was not removed from her AP classes (plural), just the class (singular) taught by the teacher she hated (her words).

From one of the comments in the thread. No source on this, granted, but I'd wager it's the truth.

[Cotigo]

There's a bit of a difference between saying you can't stand a teacher or think he or she is bad at teaching (the right to which nobody is trying to take away, so don't try to paint this as FIRST AMMENDMENT RIGHTS!!!) and creating a web site dedicated to your hate of that person and encouraging others to join in. The word "hatred" + inciting others towards it? I would indeed consider the latter to be bullying; if you don't, then it shows you're pretty out of touch with what bullying is and how it's defined these days. And spare me any whining about that definition when the studies are pretty clear that shit like this is tremendously damaging to the people who are the victims of it.

Now, yes, I'd expect most teachers to be more thick-skinned than most students and not be too bothered by this, but schools have to set a standard and not allow it, period - you can't tailor the punishment to how badly the person is affected.

The school may have a side that shines some light on it but I'll place my money on it not justifying the actions in the least.

The article gives no impression it even went to the other side or even did any real research into the situation. It's reporting just the contents of the lawsuit, which if you know anything about lawsuits, you should realise are going to be a very coloured version of events.

Also,

She was not removed from her AP classes (plural), just the class (singular) taught by the teacher she hated (her words).

From one of the comments in the thread. No source on this, granted, but I'd wager it's the truth.

[/quote]

HAHAHAHA.  Oh, man.  Wow.  Either you're really unfamiliar with facebook or joking.

The drama began in November 2007 when Evans, a senior at the school, created a Facebook page that criticized her Advanced Placement English teacher, Sarah Phelps, as ``the worst teacher I've ever met.''

This isn't saying that she underwent the task of creating a webpage from scratch simply to bully the teacher.  This itself is vague--the action itself could range from her posting a blog-like message whining about the teacher (in which case it very much IS WHOAMG FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS) or to spending 3 seconds essentially creating a messageboard about the topic.  Either way, it's a harmless expression of free speech.

I'm not saying that the standard should be adjusted for her.  There shouldn't be a standard for this kind of shit at all.  If this crap classifies as harassment to you then you're probably the kind of twat who would scream sexual harassment if someone touched you on the shoulder.

[Grefter]

Zenny your hands are classed as sex organs by law.  You touching someone on the shoulder is a felony.

That said, these days creating a webpage to go "Wow this person is a bitch I can't stand her shit" is about as hard as it is to talk about it with your friends at lunch.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Oh come on, Zenny, you quote that sentence and then ignore the very next line which I had already clearly referred to as the source of my complaints:

Evans, who also posted a yearbook photo of Phelps, sought comments from other students to express their ''feelings of hatred'' toward the teacher.

This is what you can not do. Chances are the school had rules in place clearly saying this type of behaviour is not tolerated; I know my own school does.

[Grefter]

This is the thing though, society is expecting people in the lolhi2u gaiz i liek to pet teh KITTENZ school of communication.  Eloquence is not their high point.  This shit pisses me off, here is why and how I am irritated by it becomes "feelings of hatred".

[DjinnAndTonic]

I think the moral of the story is: "If you write an angry blog, don't let your teacher see it!"

Seriously, kids get in trouble for trash-talking their teachers where they can hear them... it's a little similar. I mean, how did the kid expect her teacher to react?

The fact that she got suspended and not something like detention just sounds like the difference between -saying- bad things about a person and -writing- bad things about a person. The written word leaves a more lasting record and tends to be dealt with harshly in my experience. I really don't see why this is so surprising.

It sounds like someone is trying to make a WHOAMG FREE SPEECH argument out of something that really isn't there. Paranoia on the idea that "if THIS student can be suspended for blogging, then ANYONE can!" I honestly don't think this is going to become some kind of precedent for teachers to start hunting down students who blog about them. Though if it does, I imagine more students will blog more creatively so that it will be harder for teachers to find the blogs. ...which would really solve the problem in the first place - not letting the teacher see your angry blog!

To be fair... depending on how misconstrued the account becomes, it COULD become a precedent for teachers hunting down blogs to suspend kids...

[Grefter]

I don't think the real heart of the issue is OMG FREE SPEECH so much as the reaction is so completely and totally out of scale and petty.

Cause you know what?  If you hear a student talking smack about how bad a teacher you are and your reaction is to boot them out of the fucking class then you fucking fail as a teacher.  Harden the fuck up and try to find out what is wrong.  Students can in fact tell if you are a shit teacher or not beecauuuuuse they are fucking learning from you.

Sure I could just assume that she is a problem student that doesn't want to be there and do the ultra defensive adult thing, but frankly that shit was overplayed in 2000 bc.  Lets get over this shit and approach the problem without assuming that all teenagers are the absolute scum of the earth and just think back to how school actually works.  Kids don't have fun there, but you know you turn up, you like to at least have a decent teacher that you can relate to and has a decent teaching method.  You have the teachers that you hate unless you are exceptionally unlucky.  It might be the boring one who teaches purely from the text book or the one that pointlessly gets riled up over stupid shit.  Whatever.  You still fucking hate them anyway and don't learn well from them.

[NotMiki]

I think the moral of the story is: "If you write an angry blog, don't let your teacher see it!"

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say the school was probably notified by a student who saw the page.  Unless the teacher in question is a stalker.

Also, gonna have to disagree with VSM on two points.  First, the comparative severity of writing a web page vs. simply saying something over the phone.  Kids these days communicate with each other via the web; there's nothing about a facebook page that says to me anything was going on here beyond a little blowing off of steam.

Second and more importantly is your statement that you can't tailor the punishment to how badly the person is affected.  When you're talking about bullying, you should ALWAYS take into account how much the person is affected, because bullying isn't about what words are used but the intended consequence of those words.

If your school punishes people for specifically using certain words, that's their prerogative, but as a first amendment issue, punishment of that sort can only be meted out for things students say in school.

[Grefter]

And yeah Jim touched on the things I missed saying in that post.  It is just a new forum that things are discussed.  How much you dislike specific bad teacher A and how much better specific teacher B is will be discussed there.

[Cmdr_King]

Ah, but don't forget.  Minors have no rights.  So protected speech is impossible anyway.

That said, I'm willing to go out on a limb and say that a kid in multiple AP classes?  Was venting legitimate frustration at a bad teacher.  Highschool kids use words like hate and love pretty loosely, so reading so much into it and their seeing if others agree is somewhat over the top.  *reads article* Ah, there's the distinction.  Posting a picture of the teacher, even an outdated one, was a stupid move, but while it makes the actions of the school somewhat more justified it doesn't negate the general point that it's not exactly telling kids to egg her house, let alone anything more overtly bullying.