Author Topic: Final Fantasy 4(a) (Full)  (Read 7548 times)

Meeplelard

  • Fire Starter
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5356
    • View Profile
Final Fantasy 4(a) (Full)
« on: December 20, 2007, 05:19:39 AM »
This topic is a combination of the original FF4 Stat topic and the FF4a stat topic.  Essentially, it is identical to the FF4a one, just with averages added in that account for the original 5 only.

Anyway, I allowed stuff that can be gotten in the normal game; as in, no after game stuff, but I did allow stuff from the Cave of Trials, since that's just a normal Side Quest that opens up at the end of the game, and equips seem scaled to make the former temps actually worth something.  So yeah, guess this is a good time to justify equips!
If I don't mention something, assume its totally unique <_<

Sage Staff: Yes, usable by 3 Characters (Cecil Rosa and Porom), however, Cecil using the Safe Staff is basically insuring he dies, since his physical is his only damage, thus, he doesn't count.  Porom…gets the Seraphim Mace, a weapon that's basically the same thing, only unique to her, AND slightly stronger too, so figured this weapon basically only found use in Rosa's hands.
Stardust Rod: Used by Palom and Rydia…but similar situation to the above, only replace "Seraphim Mace" with "Triton's Dagger"
Dragon Gear: Ok, this was a bit grey, but basically, it came down to this.  Cecil can use them, but his crystal gear is superior, so only reason to use one (the Dragon Gauntlets mainly, which happens to be the only one of them that's dropped by enemies) is in a very specific situation which after asking several people, no one could find an example that it actually played a roll, AND gave Cecil the win, thus, its essentially obsolete for him.  This leaves Cid and Kain…Cid gets a Superior Armor and Helmet, if you include the Gloves in his set up anyway, and he pretty much never has a reason to use the Shield.  Basically, the last thing it came down with Kain was that, well, he's not exactly looking good as is, I decided to throw him a bone as consolation of being one of the original 5 and that was meant to be his armor.  Note that beyond maybe the elemental resists (which he has means of opting for anyway), they don't really save him.
Genji Gear: This stuff is greyer for non Kain characters (he comes equipped with them, so he gets them on a technicality), the character who cares is Edge.  I didn't factor it into the default set up but I noted they were there, mainly.
Dragon Whisker: It’s a rare drop, but Rydia unique, and its not overly hard to get.  It doesn't change a whole lot either.  I didn't add the Wyvern Lance though since it’s a harder weapon to get in general (and it doesn't save Kain regardless.)  As a side note, the Fire Lash yields the same stat alterations as this weapon, and its found in a standard chest, so not allowing this has a minor at most impact.
Minerva Plate: Ok, this is an oddball one.  In FF4a, its flat out illegal (note descriptions in this topic are based entirely off FF4a forms since they're C+Ped from there); 3 users, one from a chest and the others are rare drops, yeah.  However, in versions not FF4a, Porom NEVER gets access to it, so technically, she can never equip it.  As such, it can be deemed legal if you vote based on NonFF4a forms.  Also worth noting this is the only real difference between the original 5 from FF4 and FF4a, barring some minor average changes.  As such, when I list it with Rosa and Rydia, assume its "For FF4o form only."


Now for stats!
HP: Duh?
MP: Duh mark 2?
Str: Abbreviation for strength (cause its easier to type <.<) This Value/4 yields one more attack, for every 16 points you have in this stat, you get an extra attack multipliers.
Agl: Abbreviation for Agility.  This stat is linear for how fast you are.  Why doesn't appear that way in game?  Cause FF4 uses POSITIONING as a tie breaker for when 2 characters have full ATB Gauges at the same time, not who got there first (as in, if Edge gets a full ATB Gauge while someone else is being prompted for a turn, then someone like Rydia, whose slower, gets her ATB gauge up cause you were taking your sweet time, she will be prompted first, if she's positioned before Edge.)  Also, note that every 8 this raises increases evasion multiplier by 1, and every 16 points this raises increases your amount of hits by 1.
Sta: Abbreviation for Stamina.  Every 2 points this raises increases base defense by 1.
Int: Abbreviation for Intelligence.  This effects the speed and damage of Ninjutsu Spells, Black Magic, and Summons.  Note sure how it effects speed exactly (defiantly has an impact though; compare Meteor's Speed on Palom with a magic twinked Set up to Meteor's speed on Rydia w/ Fire Whip and Minerva (Magic Nerfing set up)), its effect on damage is an extra "hit" once every 4 Points. Every 32 points this raises adds another MEvade multiplier.
Spr: Abbreviation for Spirit.  Basically, same exact thing as Intelligence…except it applies to White Magic only.
Evade: How good you are at avoiding physicals.  Note that due to FF4's hit system, a character can only evade as many hits as their Multiplier lets them (so a 5 Multiplier means a potential of 5 hits evadable); I get effective Evade scores below based on the amount of monster hits and such, as one means of taking it.
MEvade: Magic version of evade, more or less just read above.
Attack: How much your physical damage is; note the Multiplier is actually how many hits the character has
Precision: More commonly known as Accuracy, this value is already factored into average damage.
Def: Abbreviation for Defense. Higher this is, less damage you take from physicals.  FF4 uses a weird subtraction system, similar to the previous FF games, so I added effective durabilities using one method to show how much they mean.
MDef: Magic Defense.  See above for how it works or something.

Random Side note: Yang is screwed up with his attack Multipliers and base attack score; he actually gets +2 base attack per level, instead of 1 every 4 levels like the other characters.  He seems to get Attack Multipliers with half the strength requirements, but I'm not certain offhand.  So yeah, assume all offensive related things don't apply to Yang <_<

Now for the actual characters!

Note: Every character has a base Precision of 63% and Evade of 30%.  If a weapon doesn't have a Precision value listed, its cause it raises it to the cap (99%), and thus, can't really be measured.  I'm not certain if Precision actually goes beyond the listed cap before factoring in evasion or not though (does matter for some characters, like supposedly, Cecil's Ragnarok has 170% Accuracy)

Cecil:
Base Stats:
HP: 3684
MP: 226
Str: 68
Agl: 33
Sta: 55
Int: 29
Spr: 33
MEvade: 7%

Equipment:
Ragnarok (196 Attack, 2% MEvade, +15 Str, +15 Sta, +15 Spr, Holy Elemental)
Crystal Shield (7 Def, 4 Mdef, 40% Evade, 8% MEvade, +3 Spr)
Crystal Helm (10 Def, 8 Mdef, -10% Evade, 5% MEvade, +3 Spr, grants resistance to Fire, Ice and Lightning)
Crystal Mail (25 Def, 10 Mdef, -10% Evade, 7% MEvade, grants immunity to Toad, Mini, Piggy, Beserk, and Silence status)
Crystal Gloves (10 Def, 7 Mdef, -10% Evade, 6% MEvade, +3 Spr)

Equipped Stats:
Attack: 233 * 13
Precision: 99%
Def: 89
Mdef: 29
Evade: 40% * 7
MEvade: 32% * 3
Agility: 33

Other Equipment Options:
Shields:
Aegis Shield: 4 Def, 5 Mdef, 34% Evade, 6% MEvade, +3 Int, grants immunity to Petrify status

Head:
Twisted Headband: 1 Def, 1 Mdef, 1% MEvade,  +5 Strength, grants immunity to Confusion

Cecil has a few other options that he can use if he needs to tweak out his evade (can be as high as 7 * 70%) at the cost of a large amount of Defense, such as lesser Mage equips, but typically aren't worth noting.

Cecil can use Ogre Axe too, but the enemy must at least immune Holy, or be of a species Ogre Axe hits since Ragnarok is stronger even under standard resistance.

Abilities:
Attack: 3680 Holy Elemental damage
Cura: 960 Healing, 9 MP
Esuna: Full status healing, 20 MP

Comments: Hasn't changed much at all.  Well, ok, his relative damage does do to more Mages and the temps all being better than Kain, but still.  Cecil still tanks rather well, has a nice draw of status immunities, and some healing (albeit, nothing to rave about.) Middle/Heavy

Kain:
Base Stats:
HP: 3543
MP: 0
Str: 59
Agl: 39
Sta: 49
Int: 10
Spr: 33
MEvade: 5%

Equipment:
Aegis Shield (4 Def, 5 Mdef, 34% Evade, 6% MEvade, +3 Int, grants immunity to Petrify status)
Holy Lance (109 Attack, 30% Precision, Holy Elemental)
Dragon Helm (11 Def, 7 Mdef, -10% Evade, 2% MEvade, grants resistance to Fire, Ice and Lightning damage)
Dragon Mail (23 Def, 8 Mdef, -10% Evade, 5% MEvade, grants resistance to Fire, Ice and Lightning damage)
Dragon Gloves (9 Def, 6 Mdef, -10 Evade, 3% MEvade, grants resistance to Fire, Ice and Lightning damage)

Equipped Stats:
Attack 10 * 136
Precision: 93%
Def: 71
Mdef: 26
Evade: 34% * 7
MEvade: 21% * 2
Agility: 39

Random Note: Kain is one level away from getting another Evasion Multiplier.  Just thought I'd mention it if you feel like throwing Kain a bone or something.

Other Equipment Options:
Weapons:
Gugnir: 92 Attack, 30% Precision, +15 Sta, Throw Elemental

Shields:
Dragon Shield: 6 Def, 3 Mdef,  38% Evade, 7% MEvade, grants resistance to Fire, Ice and Lightning

Head:
Twisted Headband: 1 Def, 1 Mdef, 1% MEvade,  +5 Strength, grants immunity to Confusion

Unlike Cecil, Kain doesn't really have much to on the side of the Evasion equips, so don't expect any Kain evasion hype.  Note Kain has the option of the Ogre Axe like Cecil, which is useful against Giant type foes (Like Kongol maybe?) and nothing else, given Gugnir is flat out better. 

Abilities:
Attack (w/ Holy Lance): 1534 Holy elemental damage
Attack (w/ Gugnir): 1329 Throw elemental damage
Jump (w/ Holy Lance): 3115 Holy elemental damage, requires two turns to use, where after the first turn, Kain is invincible, 1557 average damage per turn
Jump (w/ Gugnir): 2715 Throw elemental damage, requires two turns to use, where after the first turn, Kain is invincible, 1357 average damage per turn[/b]

Comments: Well, he's got durability and…absolutely nothing else.  Well, speed is alright, I suppose, but that damage is atrocious.  He pretty much auto loses to most healers (ones with actual MP Scores that supports their damage anyway), and has issues winning slugfests in anything outside of Light.  Its…really hard to see him as anything above Light given his damage, and how he lacks any tricks to make up for it.

Rydia:
Base Stats:
HP: 1968
MP: 492
Str: 28
Agl: 27
Sta: 27
Int: 51
Spr: 48
MEvade: 12%

Equipment:
Stardust Rod (45 Attack, 10% Precision, 2% MEvade, +15 Int)
--------------
Gold Hairpin (7 Def, 10 Mdef, 10% MEvade, +10 Int, grants resistance to Lightning)
Light Robe (12 Def, 9 Mdef, 10% MEvade, +5 Int, +5 Spr, grants resistance to Lightning)
Rune Armlet (5 Def, 8 Mdef, 8% MEvade, +3 Int, +3 Spr, grants immunity to Silence)

Equipped Stats:
Attack: 65 * 5
Precision: 73%
Def: 37
Mdef: 27
Evade: 30% * 3
MEvade: 43% * 4
Agility: 27

Other Equipment Options:
Weapons:
Dragon Whisker: 54 Attack, 35% Precision, +5 Str, +5 Agl, +5 Vit, -5 Int, -5 Spr, does 4x damage vs. Dragons, randomly adds Paralysis

Body:
Gaia Gear: 4 Def, 3 Mdef, 4% MEvade, grants immunity to Petrify
Minerva's Plate: 20 Defense, 5 Magic Defense, 30% Evasion, 5% Magic Evasion, +15 Str,15 Agl, +15 Vit, -15 Int, -15 Spr, grants immunity to Paralysis (*NOT* Stop) and Instant Death.

Head:
Twisted Headband: 1 Def, 1 Mdef, 1% MEvade,  +5 Strength, grants immunity to Confusion

Arms:
Diamond Armlet: 6 Def, 8 Mdef, 6% MEvade, grants resistance to Lightning


Abilities:
Note: Assume Stardust Rod for all her magic damage.  I'll add in Dragon Whisker Damage's when I'm not rushing so much <_<
Attack (Stardust Rod): 277
Attack (Dragon Whisker): 617
Flare: 9999 (10120) Non Elemental damage, 50 MP, incredibly fast charge time
Sleep: Causes Sleep, 12 MP
Poison: Does 1 damage, and adds Poison status, 2 MP
Pig: Causes and heals out of Piggy, 1 MP
Stop: Causes Stop (NOT Paralysis), 15 MP
Toad: Causes and heals out of Frog, 7 MP
Osmose: Deals MP damage, restores MP equal to amount of damage done, this move struggles to break enemy Magic Defense, 0 MP
Break: Causes Petrify, 15 MP
Death: Instant Death, 35 MP
Tornado: Lowers target's HP to single digits, 25 MP
Meteor: 9999 (21120) Holy Elemental Magic damage, Ignores Reflect, 99 MP, unreasonably long charge time…and yes, that's a euphamism.
Sylph: 2420 Non elemental damage, heals user for amount of damage done.  Note if the user has allies, then healing is spread evenly amongst the whole team, 25 MP, ignores reflect
Bahamut: 9999 (12320) Non Elemental damage, 60 MP, ignores split damage and reflect
Odin: Instant Death, seems to ignore standard Instant Death immunity, 45 MP, ignores reflect
Asura: Equal chance of casting Protect, Curaga (based off Intelligence, mind, not Spirit), that ignores multiple targets, or MT Life, 50 MP

Comments: Depending on the fight, Rydia may want the Dragon's Whisker or Stardust Rod; since Damage is always useful, I decided that was default.  Anyway, her damage is great, and she has a lot of status tricks, and Sylph's is nice parasitic healing.  Sort of a chibi Terra…or would be if she didn't die to a sneeze.  She also lost any claim she had to the Minerva (since now Porom actually can use it), so her Instant Death and Paralysis immunity options are gone, as is that durability/speed boost it gave.  Her fights tend to not last longer than two turns anyway; if they somehow do, that opponent must fail at life.  Middle/Heavy

Edward:
Base Stats:
HP: 1511
MP: 0
Str: 39
Agl: 34
Sta: 21
Int: 23
Spr: 23
MEvade: 5%

Equipment:
Apollo Harp (98 Attack, 2% MEvade, +15 Str, +15 Agl, +15 Spr, Fire Elemental, does 4x damage against Dragons)
---------------
Red Cap (10 Def, 12 Mdef, 10% Evade, 12% MEvade, +10 Sta, grants resistance vs. Fire)
Red Jacket (21 Def, 12 Mdef, 20% Evade, 4% MEvade, +15 Str, +15 Agl, resists Fire)
Diamond Armlet (6 Def, 8 Mdef, 6% MEvade, grants resistance to Lightning)

Equipped Stats:
Attack: 128 * 13
Precision: 99%
Def: 52
Mdef: 32
Evade: 60% * 8
MEvade: 29% * 3
Agility: 64

Other Equipment Options:
Head:
Twisted Headband: 1 Def, 1 Mdef, 1% MEvade,  +5 Strength, grants immunity to Confusion

Edward has a few Status Harps, ones that cause Sleep and Confusion, at a fairly respectable rate.  However, the damage they do is just awful, and they hamstring his stats a lot.  Just know they are there though.  Edward can also use a Bow, but…well, check Rosa's damage with Aim, and Edward does about 63% that.

Abilities:
Attack: 1994 Fire elemental damage
Heal: Failure healing, just noting it for fun <_<
Sing: Randomly causes Silence, Sleep, or Charm status.  Has a small chance of failing and doing nothing.  If Edward has Frog status, he will use Frog Song instead, which yields Frog stats. 
Hide: Allows Edward to leave the battle for as long as he wants too, and come back at will.  Note this automatically kicks in anytime Edward is in critical state.

Comments: Wait, what's this? Edward doesn't totally fail?  He's fast as hell, 2x speed if you take equipment out of the average, merely above 150% if you do factor them in.  With that speed, Sing's randomness is somewhat offset as he'll likely get a good status in turn 1.  And if it’s a Mage he's fighting, anyone of those status' will hurt.  Damage isn't anything to hype though, especially since its elemental.  Still, a big improvement…pity about that HP that's LESS THAN HALF AVERAGE making him the frailest in the cast.  Due to that, he can't really break out of Light, however, he now actually can hold his own in that division.

Rosa:
Base Stats:
HP: 2797
MP: 461
Str: 42
Agl: 26
Sta: 33
Int: 19
Spr: 63
MEvade: 10%


Equipment:
Sage Staff (48 Attack, 15% Precision, 2% MEvade, +15 Spr)
-------------
Gold Hairpin (7 Def, 10 Mdef, 10% MEvade, +10 Int, grants resistance to Lightning)
Light Robe (12 Def, 9 Mdef, 10% MEvade, +5 Int, +5 Spr, grants resistance to Lightning)
Rune Armlet (5 Def, 8 Mdef, 8% MEvade, +3 Int, +3 Spr, grants immunity to Silence)

Equipped Stats:
Attack: 71 * 7
Precision: 78%
Def: 40
Mdef: 27
Evade: 30% * 3
MEvade: 41% * 3
Agility: 26

Other Equipment Options:
Weapon:
Yoichi's Arrow + Killer Bow: 58 Attack, 0% Precision (granted, with Aim, who cares?), supposedly boosts Crit Rate, Throw Elemental

Head:
Twisted Headband: 1 Def, 1 Mdef, 1% MEvade,  +5 Strength, grants immunity to Confusion

Body:
Gaia Gear: 4 Def, 3 Mdef, 4% MEvade, grants immunity to Petrify

Arms:
Diamond Armlet: 6 Def, 8 Mdef, 6% MEvade, grants resistance to Lightning

Abilities:
Attack (Sage Staff): 453
Aim (Bow Set Up Only): 672 Throw Elemental damage, Ignores Evade
Holy: 8470 (6930) Holy Elemental damage, 46 MP
Cura: 1320 Healing, 9 MP
Curaga: 3960 Healing, 18 MP
Hold: Causes Paralysis, 5 MP
Slow: Slows down target, by how much is hard to say, 14 MP
Protect: Raises Defense by a small amount, can be stacked, 9 MP
Silence: Causes Silence, 6 MP
Beserk: Causes Berserk status,  18 MP
Esuna: Full status healing, 8 MP
Blink: Adds Image Status, 8 MP
Confuse: Causes Confusion
Shell: Raises Magic Defense by a small amount, can be stacked, 10 MP
Mini: Causes and heals out of Mini, 6 MP
Dispel: Removes Positive Status, can be reflected (WHY???), 12 MP
Haste: Supposedly, it speeds target up, but this doesn't seem to do anything for Mages, 25 MP
Float: Grants immunity to ground attacks like Quake or Titan, 8 MP
Reflect: Adds Reflect status for about 3 turns, 8 MP

For teams, Rosa has Life (10% MHP Ressurection)  and Full-Life (Full), which cost 8 and 52 MP respectively.  Also, the healing spells get linearly less potent with more targets (so 2 targets get half, 3 get 1/3rd, etc.), which makes Curaja useful for team matches only, Curaja being 7920 Healing and costs 40 MP. 

Comments: Rosa's noteworthy for one thing; she's the only Mage in FF4 with an actual HP score, since its somewhat close to average instead of just failing at life.  Anyway, main change was losing the Minerva, which hurts her as that means no Instant Death or Paralysis immunity, but otherwise?  Still got great damage, still got a bunch of tricks up her sleeve, and still has a lot of healing. I'd be willing to call her game best dueller, but don't wanna shoot myself in the foot, so I'll just say she's a clear Heavy

Yang:
Base Stats:
HP: 5291
MP: 0
Str: 72
Agl: 30
Sta: 60
Int: 2
Spr: 3
MEvade: 0%

Equipment:
Hand of the Gods (Str +15, Agl +15, Sta +15)
Cat Claw (+5 Str, +5 Agl, randomly adds Sleep Status)
Funny Mask (8 Def, 3 MDef, 6% Evade, 3% MEvade Str +5, grants immunity to paralysis)
Courageous Suit (22 Def, 8 MDef, 25% Evade, 2% MEvade.
Diamond Armlet (6 Def, 8 Mdef, 6% MEvade, grants resistance to Lightning)

Equipped Stats:
Attack: 136 * 16
Precision: 99%
Def: 78
Mdef: 19
Evade: 61% * 7
MEvade: 11% * 1
Agility: 60

Other Equipment Options:
Head:
Twisted Headband: 1 Def, 1 Mdef, 1% MEvade,  +5 Strength, grants immunity to Confusion

Yang has Fire, Ice, and Lighting claws for hitting their respective weaknesses.  They don't give any boost to stats, mind, though the overall damage loss is negligible.

Abilities:
Attack: 2613 damage, adds Sleep status about 90% of the time
Power: 5306 damage, adds Sleep status about 90% of the time, seems to ignore counters, requires a one turn charge time, 2653
Gird: Suppose to boost physical defense, but does so by a small amount; possible this is stackable too, but its hard to test.
Kick: Fails at life.

Comments: No, that HP and Agility aren't typos.  His speed is just a bit below Edward's, though still insane, and his HP is up there with the likes of Ness and Ragnar.  That fact makes him FF4's most durable character.  Damage…isn't very good besides Build Up, which is good for avoiding Limits on Sleep Immunes, mainly.  However, consider just how durable he is, and backed up with that speed, AND how he's putting foes to sleep, he can actually get by with that lack of damage.  I think Middle/Heavy works for now.

Palom:
Base Stats:
HP: 2040
MP: 430
Str: 26
Agl: 24
Sta: 31
Int: 60
Spr: 20
MEvade: 10%

Equipment:
Triton's Dagger (62 Attack, 1% MEvade, +15 Int)
Coronet (7 Def, 16 MDef, 8% Evade, 19% MEvade, +10 Int, grants immunity to Frog, Piggy, and Mini status)
Sage's Robe (19 Def, 15 MDef,  5% Evade, 19% MEvade, +10 Agl, +10 Int, grants immunity to Silence status)
Diamond Armlet (6 Def, 8 Mdef, 6% MEvade, grants resistance to Lightning)

Equipped Stats:
Attack: 81 * 6
Precision: 99%
Def: 47
Mdef: 39
Evade: 43% * 4
MEvade: 55% * 4
Agility: 34

Other Equipment Options:
Head:
Twisted Headband: 1 Def, 1 Mdef, 1% MEvade,  +5 Strength, grants immunity to Confusion

Body:
Gaia Gear: 4 Def, 3 Mdef, 4% MEvade, grants immunity to Petrify

Arms:
Rune Armlet: 5 Def, 8 Mdef, 8% MEvade, +3 Int, +3 Spr, grants immunity to Silence

Abilities:
Attack: 571
Bluff: Boosts Palom's Int, note this does NOT boost is beyond the 99 damage cap.  Considering what his INT is already, and how high his damage is, yes, this is pointless unless he opts for some status immune set up and really needs the OHKO.
Flare: 9999 (10580) Non Elemental damage, 50 MP, incredibly fast charge time
Sleep: Causes Sleep, 12 MP
Poison: Does 1 damage, and adds Poison status, 2 MP
Pig: Causes and heals out of Piggy, 1 MP
Stop: Causes Stop (NOT Paralysis), 15 MP
Toad: Causes and heals out of Frog, 7 MP
Drain: Heals user for amount of damage done, note that this spell fails to break average enemy Magic Defense (take this as you will), 18 MP
Osmose: Deals MP damage, restores MP equal to amount of damage done, this move struggles to break enemy Magic Defense, 0 MP
Break: Causes Petrify, 15 MP
Death: Instant Death, 35 MP
Tornado: Lowers target's HP to single digits, 25 MP
Meteor: 9999 (22080) Holy Elemental Magic damage, Ignores Reflect, 99 MP, unreasonably long charge time…and yes, that's a euphemism.

Comments: Superior Rydia who trades in summons (most notable loss is Sylph's) to get better Speed and a bit better durability.  Winning trades in the DL really.  So yeah, hits hard, lots of status, can't take hits…text book example of how a Black Mage should be (much like Rydia); Middle/Heavy  Immunity to Frog and Silence status (two main Mage killers) certainly doesn't hurt his cause.

Porom:
Base Stats:
HP: 1911
MP: 430
Str: 20
Agl: 27
Sta: 23
Int: 19
Spr: 60
MEvade: 9%

Equipment:
Seraphim's Mace (50 Attack, 20% Precision, 2% MEvade, +15 Spr)
Cat Hood (7 Def, 18 Mdef, 8% Evade, 16% MEvade, +5 Agl, grants resistance to Ice)
Lord's Robe (19 Def, 18 Mdef, 5% Evade, 19% MEvade, +10 Sta, +10 Spr, grants resistance to Fire, Ice and Lightning)
Rune Armlet (5 Def, 8 Mdef, 8% MEvade, +3 Int, +3 Spr, grants immunity to Silence)

Equipped Stats:
Attack: 68 * 5
Precision: 83%
Def: 47
Mdef: 44
Evade: 43% * 4
MEvade: 52% * 4
Agility: 32

Other Equipment Options:
Head:
Twisted Headband: 1 Def, 1 Mdef, 1% MEvade,  +5 Strength, grants immunity to Confusion

Body:
Gaia Gear: 4 Def, 3 Mdef, 4% MEvade, grants immunity to Petrify

Arms:
Diamond Armlet: 6 Def, 8 Mdef, 6% MEvade, grants resistance to Lightning

Abilities:
Attack: 332
Holy: 8855 Holy Elemental damage, 46 MP
Cura: 1380 Healing, 9 MP
Curaga: 4140 Healing, 18 MP
Hold: Causes Paralysis, 5 MP
Slow: Slows down target, by how much is hard to say, 14 MP
Protect: Raises Defense by a small amount, can be stacked, 9 MP
Silence: Causes Silence, 6 MP
Beserk: Causes Berserk status,  18 MP
Esuna: Full status healing, 8 MP
Blink: Adds Image Status, 8 MP
Confuse: Causes Confusion
Shell: Raises Magic Defense by a small amount, can be stacked, 10 MP
Mini: Causes and heals out of Mini, 6 MP
Dispel: Removes Positive Status, can be reflected (WHY???), 12 MP
Haste: Supposedly, it speeds target up, but this doesn't seem to do anything for Mages, 25 MP
Float: Grants immunity to ground attacks like Quake or Titan, 8 MP
Reflect: Adds Reflect status for about 3 turns, 8 MP

For teams, Porom has Life (10% MHP Ressurection)  and Full-Life (Full), which cost 8 and 52 MP respectively.  Also, the healing spells get linearly less potent with more targets (so 2 targets get half, 3 get 1/3rd, etc.), which makes Curaja useful for team matches only, Curaja being 8280 Healing and costs 40 MP. 

Comments: Porom is basically Rosa trading in durability for better speed, and Fire/Ice resistance. Thinking it’s a bit of a losing trade, but either way, Porom shows just how awesome FF4's White Magic skillset is in the DL, having lots of healing, support spells, and status.  Low Heavy works for now.

Cid:
Base Stats:
HP: 4649
MP: 0
Str: 66
Agl: 23
Sta: 60
Int: 5
Spr: 5
MEvade: 1%

Equipment:
Thor's Hammer (190 Attack, 30% Precision, +15 Str, Lightning Elemental)
-----------------
Grand Helm (14 Def, 10 Mdef, -10% Evade, 7% MEvade, Agl +5, Spr +5, grants resistance to Lightning)
Grand Armor (28 Def, 10 Mdef, -10% Evade, 10% MEvade, +15 Sta, +15 Spr, grants resistance to Lightning)
Dragon Gloves (9 Def, 6 Mdef, -10 Evade, 3% MEvade, grants resistance to Fire, Ice and Lightning damage)

Equipped Stats:
Attack: 223 * 12
Precision: 93%
Defense: 88
Mdef: 26
Evade: 0 * 3
MEvade: 18% * 0
Agility: 28

Other Equipment Options:
Weapons:
Ogre Axe: 80 Attack, 19% Precision, 4x damage vs. Ogres

Shields:
Aegis Shield: 4 Def, 5 Mdef, 34% Evade, 6% MEvade, +3 Int, grants immunity to Petrify status

Twisted Headband: 1 Def, 1 Mdef, 1% MEvade,  +5 Strength, grants immunity to Confusion

Abilities:
Attack (Thor's Hammer): 3046 Lightning elemental damage
Attack (Ogre Axe): 1074 damage

Comments: He can tank and…well, that's about it.  Sounds similar to Kain, doesn't it?  So what's the difference?  Well, Cid's damage is about double that of the Dragoon's, and his defensive stats are also much higher, making him much better at it. A bit sluggish, yes, but at least he can beat some healers due to not requiring  2 turns for his damage.  Hates Lightning resistance, granted. Some sort of Middle works for now. 

Edge:
Base Stats:
HP: 2862
MP: 180
Str: 49
Agl: 44
Sta: 37
Int: 27
Spr: 21
MEvade: 6%

Equipment:
Masamune (65 Attack, +3 Agl)
*Cat Claw (+5 Str, +5 Agl, randomly adds Sleep Status)
Green Beret (6 Def, 1 Mdef, 1% MEvade, +5 Strength)
Black Garb (24 Def, 15 Mdef, 60% Evade, 8% MEvade)
Diamond Armlet (6 Def, 8 Mdef, 6% MEvade, grants resistance to Lightning)

*The attack varies depending on Edge's base stats mind; at level 55 with Masamune, it adds 29 Attack, at least, after factoring in the strength boost.  I think it does something like Edge's Strength/2 for an extra hand used, but…hard to say.  Thankfully, it really doesn't mean much at all, in the grand scheme of things.

Equipped Stats:
Attack: 121 * 11
Precision: 99%
Def: 54
Mdef: 24
Evade: 92% * 6
MEvade: 21% * 2
Agility: 55

Other Equipment Options:
Head:
Twisted Headband: 1 Def, 1 Mdef, 1% MEvade,  +5 Strength, grants immunity to Confusion
*Genji Helmet: 10 Def, 6 Mdef, -12% Evade, 3% MEvade

Arms:
Rune Armlet: 5 Def, 8 Mdef, 8% MEvade, +3 Int, +3 Spr, grants immunity to Silence
*Genji Gloves: 8 Def, 5 Mdef, -10% Evade, 3% MEvade

*Genji Equips are not only questionable, but arguably not better than the stuff I have listed (though, it most likely is better than his Helmet *punts Edge's Helment options*); due to a combination of both, I didn't make it default, if you think that's unreasonable, and it should be factored into the averages, by all means do so.

Note: Murasame is Edge's 2nd strongest weapon (after Masamune), yes, however, it not only lowers Edge's speed, but also, Edge has NO REASON to use his physical, besides the status.  Thus, the weapon is worthless in the DL, hence why its not on the list.  Edge also can use the Hell Claw as another option, but the status it yields is Poison, and given the potency of FF4 Poison…yeah…

Abilities:
Attack: 1606, adds Sleep status about 90% of the time
Throw Fuma: 4400 damage, Ignores Evade and Defense
Pin: Causes Paralysis, 5 MP
Image: Adds Image status to self, 6 MP

Yes, Edge has attack magic, but the damage is such garbage that unless its hitting a 4x weakness or something, its not doing more than a Fuma.

Comments: He's no longer game best speed since Edward and Yang thought it'd be funny to bring in several +15 Agility equips <_<  Edge manages to not care, since beyond possibly losing some damage relatively (blame the mages), he's still pretty much the exact same dueller.  Fast, accurate sleep, anti physical with Image…we all know how Edge works at this point. Some sort of Heavy I guess.

Stat Comparisons!

HP:
1. Yang 5291
2. Cid 4649
3. Cecil 3684
4. Kain 3543
5. Edge 2862
6. Rosa 2797
7. Palom 2040
8. Rydia 1968
9. Porom 1911
10. Edward 1511
Average: 3026
Average of Original 5: 2970

Defense:
1. Cecil 89
2. Cid 88
3. Yang 78
4. Kain 71
5. Edge 54
6. Edward 52
7t. Palom 47
7t. Porom 47
9. Rosa 40
10. Rydia 37
Average Defense: 60
Average of Original 5: 58


Magic Defense:
1. Porom 44
2. Palom 39
3. Edward 32
4. Cecil 29
5t. Rydia 27
5t. Rosa 27
7t. Cid 26
7t. Kain 26
9. Edge 24
10. Yang 19
Average: 28
Average of Original 5: 27

Agility:
1. Edward 64
2. Yang 60
3. Edge 55
4. Kain 39
5. Palom 34
6. Cecil 33
7. Porom 32
8. Cid 28
9. Rydia 27
10. Rosa 26
Average: 39.8
Average w/out Equips: 30.7
Average of Original 5: 36
Average of Original 5 w/out Equips: 34

Damage:
1t. Rydia 9999
1t. Palom 9999
3. Porom 8855
4. Rosa 8470
5. Edge 4400
6. Cecil 3680
7. Cid 3046
8. Yang 2653
9. Edward 1994
10. Kain 1557
Average: 5465
Average w/out Holy: 3833
Average of Original 5: 5621
Average of Original 5 w/out Holy: 4061

Effective Evasion Scores:
1. Edge 61.3%
2. Edward 53.3%
3. Yang 47.4%
4. Cecil 31.1%
5. Kain 26.4%
6t. Palom 19.1%
6t. Porom 19.1%
8t. Rydia 10%
8t. Rosa 10%
10. Cid 0%
Average: 27.7%
Average of Original 5: 27.8%

Effective Magic Evasion Scores:
1. Palom 22%
2. Porom 20.8%
3. Rydia 17.2%
4. Rosa 12.3%
5. Cecil 9.3%
6. Edward 8.7%
7t. Kain 4.2%
7t. Edge 4.2%
9. Yang 1.1%
10. Cid 0%
Average: 10%
Average of Original 5: 9.4%

Effective Physical durability (lower = better):
1. Yang 50%
2. Cid 51.2%
3. Cecil 64.3%
4. Kain 78.5%
5. Edge 110.5%
6. Rosa 124.4%
7. Palom 162.7%
8. Porom 173.7%
9. Rydia 180.2%
10. Edward 212.2%

Effective Magic Durability (lower = better):
1. Yang 61.4%
2. Cid 66.2%
3. Cecil 81.5%
4. Kain 86.9%
5. Rosa 109.1%
6. Edge 109.2%
7. Palom 134.8%
8. Porom 137.4%
9. Rydia 155%
10. Edward 193.6%
« Last Edit: November 23, 2013, 04:20:42 PM by Meeplelard »
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Meeplelard

  • Fire Starter
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5356
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy 4(a) (PCs)
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2007, 05:30:10 AM »
Miscellaneous Info time!

First off, Status Rates.

Porom and Palom have some ridiculously high status rates.  I think this post by Super explains how good they are by itself!

Quote
Status tests:

Piggy went 15/20 for Palom. Death would not miss in 50 attempts. As far as I can tell Wisdom/Will heavily plays into status hit rates, and a couple of statuses (Tornado leaps to mind, as does Death) have a high base hit rate. Piggy has a 10 hit rate.

Going to test more, but all of the Twin's statuses should be pretty close to perfect.

Also, a follow up post by me...

Quote
Just did some Porom status tests...

Hold, which was one of Rosa's worse status, if not her absolute worst, just went 20/20. It missed a few times, BUT...

All instances of missing were when the enemy was under silence. Also, it never hit once when the enemy was silenced. It went 18 times in a row of not missing, then silenced the enemy, missed 5 times in a row. Found another Warlock, back to hitting again!

Basically, it seems that Silence, and possibly some other FF4 status later to be discovered, grants immunity to OTHER STatus. I knew Mini did this, but I just figured that was "Mini turns enemy into a different enemy that happens to be status immune!" nonsense.
Leave it to FF4 to have yet another screwed up feature.

Given the worst of the status was hitting that much, I don't feel a need to test the other status spells <_< >_>

(for the record, Silence hit all 3 times I cast it)

Next up, here's some random GFAQs info that hinode C+Ped. 

Terence wrote:
Quote
Nirvana can be used to cast Reflect, Asura's Rod can be used to cast Holy.

Apollo's Harp is Fire Element and strong against Dragons.
Loki's Lute is strong against *all* Enemy Types except None and Pudding.

As for armor... well, Hero's Shield should probably be mentioned - all the end game characters can use it, it has decent defensive stats, +15 to all primary stats, and adds the Absorb effect to the character. That means that any element you currently resist is actually absorbed instead.

After that, it's mostly a measure of what you want. Adamant's always nice, but it lacks Holy Resistance - if you want that, Cecil's Caesar Plate, Rydia's Rainbow Robe and Edward's Vishnu Vest are key - Rydia and Edward's armor also have the benefit of coming with inherent Fire/Ice/Lightning resistance (and Edward has Dark Resist as well!) None of those have Status resistance though, so you'd likely need a Ribbon as well, and Cecil will probably need Dragon Gloves or something to get Fire/Ice/Lightning. Or you could just go back to using Adamant if you happen to have a few.

Cid really loses out since his best weapon is two-handed. Technically, Rosa does too, but she's a caster and could take any half-decent staff in the first place. Up to you what you do with Edge and Yang in this regard.

There's a bunch of other armor pieces around, of course, but those are the real highlights. It's always nice to have absorbs and status immunities ^_^

AdawgDaFAB wrote:
Quote
Does the Adamant Armor have resist abilities?


Lourde Incarnadine wrote:
Quote
No, it enhances existing elemental defense from other pieces of equipment.

For example, if you have a Diamond Armlet (which halves lightning damage) and Adamant Armor, lightning attacks will only deal 1 damage to you.

Same thing with the Hero Shield and Cursed Ring; they make you absorb any element that your other equipment resists.

Ok. Porom's stuff doesn't seem to resist any element. Palom's Ashura's Staff resists Holy. Yang's in the same boat; none of his armor resists anyhting, but Dragon Claw resists Holy.

AD, some of Yang's weapons boost his base stats, like Agility or Strength- particularly the Hand of the Gods. These are handy since sometimes the Agility boost from a non-elemental Claw is enough to kick him into the range for another hit.

As for HotG, I don't have the game right in front of me, but I think it had +15 to the "fighting" stats: Strength, Agility, and Vitality. Plus it was Holy-aligned and it may be anti-ghoul and/or anti-undead, but it's hard to tell since most ghouls and undead are already weak against Holy...



Sadly, the Gigant Axe from the Ruins is a two-hander, so it's useless as far as giving Cid a Hero Shield goes. No clue what the strongest one-handed weapon that he can equip is, but since it doesn't seem to be any of the upper-tier stuff like Assassin Dagger he's starting to edge out Edward for "Least Impressive Character in the Entire Game" with his unique combination of horrible slowness, a completely crap-tastic special ability, and an inability to effectively use a Hero Shield. Sure his HP is good and he's kinda strong, but other characters like Kain or Cecil or Yang can do similar damage more frequently.

And it hurts me to say that, cuz I always liked Cid. But he just loses out big-time with his sub-par equipment choices and useless skill. About the only thing that could hurt him more is a lack of elemental defense for the Maximillian; at least if it had elemental resistances you could give him a Cursed Ring for the absorption that he missed out on from the Hero Shield, though it'll hurt his stats and detract even further from his laughable speed...


Edward doesn't do all that bad with an Assassin Dagger + Hero Shield, though Apollo's Harp is still going to be better against Dragons or things weak against fire. The downside is that he can't use Sing/Chant when he's using the Dagger, but you might still want to equip him with the Harmonic Ring just for the stats.

I still have yet to see Loki's Lute do above-average damage to ANYTHING, I'm kinda wondering if it has anything going for it besides stats...

I also have yet to see the Assassin Dagger actually 1HKO anything. -_-;

[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Meeplelard

  • Fire Starter
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5356
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy 4(a) (PCs)
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2007, 05:32:37 AM »
For those who haven't played FF4a, here's something to help you scale temps, and for all players, something to help with Tellah!

First, Porom and Palom scaling. This is taking right before Caignozzio, so its literally right before they leave:

Cecil:
Level 15
HP: 890
Str 16
Agl 15
Vit 16
Wis 10
Will 30
Attack: 3x47 (141)
Defense: 33
Magic Defense: 7

Physical: 176

Tellah:
Level 23
HP: 418
Str 3
Agl 9
Vit 5
Wis 22
Wil 19
Attack: 15
Defense: 12
Magic Defense: 12

Physical: 18 (this is before factoring in accuracy. With that, it should be considerably lower)
Level 3s: 1920
Level 2s: 480
Virus: 960

Yang:
Level 19
HP: 812
Str 29
Agl 13
Vit 24
Wis 2
Wil 3
Attack: 4x47 (188)
Defense: 22
Magic Defense: 7
NOTE: Yang has 2 Elemental Claws on (which provide no Stat Boosts), and stuff buyable in Baron, if your curious, though, Yang isn't the one being Scaled here, the children are, this is just FYI.

Physical: 235 (again, not factoring in accurracy. This probably should be a bit lower)

Palom:
Level 19
HP: 318
Str 15
Agl 10
Vit 11
Wis 30
Wil 14
Attack: 34 (ooh, he's more than 2x as strong as Tellah!)
Defense: 15
Magic Defense: 12
NOTE: Palom CAN opt for a Bow, but he damn well should not unless he desperatly needs a physical attack (which would suck anyway), since Rods give some magic stat Boosts, increasing his already impressive Wisdom. And unlike Porom, he doens't have healing to win in an eventual Battle of Healing + Shooting w/ Arrows, so basically, Palom forced to Go physical = Dead Palom.

Level 2s: 640
Boasted Level 2s: 1280

Porom:
Level 19
HP: 297 (she started 11 points higher than Palom too, guess her Growth sucks )
Str 11
Agl 12
Vit 9
Wis 14
Wil 27
Attack: 22 x 2 (44) (Bow + Arrow)/ 14 x 2 (28) (Staff Damage)
Defense: 18
Magic Defense: 17

Physical (Bow): 55 (see accurracy disclaimer)
Physical (Staff): 35 (accurracy disclaimer again)

Averages:
HP:
1. Cecil 890
2. Yand 812
3. Tellah 418
4. Palom 318
5. Porom 297
Average: 547

Defense:
1. Cecil 33
2. Yang 22
3. Porom 18
4. Palom 15
5. Tellah 12
Average: 20

Magic Defense:
1. Porom 17
2t. Tellah 12
2t. Palom 12
4. Cecil 7
5. Yang 7
Average: 11

Damages:
1. Tellah 960
2. Palom 640
3. Yang 235
4. Cecil 176
5. Porom 55
Average: 413 (605 w/ Tellah's level 3s)

(I'm using Virus here, as level 3's strike me as a bit too costly)


And now for Cid, Yang, and tellah, stats taken in the Tower of Zot, after beating hte Magus 3, listing Rosa and Kain's as well since they are gotten right after, and its good to have another Mage to compare to Tellah too (so his HP doesn't look all that bad, that, and Rosa has Average HP, making her good to show how Tellah compares to Average at the time)

Cecil:
Level 25
Equipment:
Flame Sword
Mithril Shield
Mithril Helm
Mithril Armor
Mithril Gauntlet

Stats:
HP: 1179
Strength: 26
Agility: 18
Vitality: 29
Wisdom: 14
Will: 19
Attack: 5x77
Attack%: 86%
Defense: 42
Defense%: 3x26%
Magic Defense: 10
Magic Defense%: 1x12%

Fight: 413 average damage

Tellah:
Level 26
Equipment:
Thunder Rod
---------
Triangle Hat
Priest Robe
Silver Ring

Stats:
HP: 494
Strength: 1 (!!!)
Agl: 9
Vit: 3
Wisdom: 24
Will: 22
Attack: FAIL
Attack%: MORE FAIL
Defense: 13
Defense%: 1x27%
Magic Defense: 14
Magic Defense%: 1x19%

Physical: FAILS (as in, don't have values off hand, so can't figure it out <.<)
Level 3s: 2240
Virus: 1120

Yang:
Level 25
Equipment:
FairyClaw
Hell Claw
Bandana
Kenpou
Silver Ring

HP: 1322
Strength: 40
Agility: 19
Vitality: 30
Wisdom: 2
Will: 3
Attack: 7x62
Attack%: 76%
Defense: 25
Defense%: 2x40%
Magic Defense: 7
Magic Defense%: 0x6%

Attack: 412
Build Up: 824
NOTE: Remember, FF4 physical damage is based off how many hits you get in there, thus, it might be better to just go by the raw Attack Stat.

Cid:
Level 25

Equipment:
Earth Hammer
----------
Mithril Helm
Mithril Mail
Mithril Glove

Stats:
HP: 1161
Strength: 32
Agility: 11
Vit: 30
Wisdom: 5 (wow, he beats Yang!)
Will: 5 (He beats him here too!)
Attack: 5x75
Attack%: 81%
Defense: 42
Defense%: 1x0
Magic Defense: 8
Magic Defense%: 0x7%

Attack: 379

Kain:
Level 27
Equipment:
Mithril Shield
Wind Spear
Mithril Helmet
Mithril Mail
Mithril Gauntlet

Stats:
HP: 961
Strength: 26
Agility: 22
Vitality: 24
Wisdom: 7
Will: 18
Attack: 5x67
Attack%: 86%
Defense: 42
Defense%: 3x26%
Magic Defense: 10
Magic Defense%: 0x11%

Physical: 360
Jump: 720
Keep In Mind: Kain is level 27 compared to the others who are all level 25, sans Rosa and Tellah who are level 26. Also, Cecil's HP growth slows down a lot throughout the game, hence why Kain is a good deal behind Cecil right now, but catches up somewhat in the end (afterall, Cecil's Level 1 Paladin's HP is BETTER than a level 20 Dark Knight, and the Dark Knight had agme best HP at the time...they had to compensate SOMEHOW)

Rosa:
Level: 26
Equipment:
Ice/Fire/Lit Arrows
Great Bow
Goldband
Priest Robe
Silver Ring

Stats:
HP: 748

Strength: 24 (2 less than Kain? ...heh...)
Agility: 15
Vitality: 16
Wisdom: 23
Will: 38
Attack: 4x36
Attack%: 46%
Defense: 24
Defense%: 1x30%
Magic Defense: 19
Magic Defense%: 1x25%

Physical (assuming Aim): 180

Well, that's it for end Zot characters. Scale as you will with Tellah and Cid (note that Yang doesn't change much between Zot and Bab-il)

Stats!!!

HP:
1. Yang 1322
2. Cecil 1179
3. Cid 1169
4. Kain 961
5. Rosa 748
6. Tellah 494
Average: 977

Defense:
1t. Cecil 42
1t. Cid 42
1t. Kain 42
4. Yang 25
5. Rosa 24
6. Tellah 13
Average: 31

Magic Defense:
1. Rosa 19
2. Tellah 14
3t. Cecil 10
3t. Kain 10
5. Cid 8
6. Yang 7
Average: 11
NOTE: Cecil is optimized for Defense here; he can use the same Armor and Helmet as Tellah if he pleases for more magic defense. Take this as you will

Agility:
1. Kain 22
2. Yang 19
3. Cecil 18
4. Rosa 15
5. Cid 11
6. Tellah 9
Agility: 16

Damage:
1. Tellah 2240
2. Cecil 413
3. Yang 412
4. Cid 379
5. Kain 360
6. Rosa 180
Average: 664

And last but not least...

Fusoya:
Equipment:
Fairy Rod (+10 Int, other stats meaningless)
--------
Priest Hat (+3 Defense, -3 Evasion, +5 Magic Defense, +5 Magic Evasion +3 Int, +3 Spirit)
Light Robe
Rune Ring

Light Robe and Rune Ring are used by other PCs, so just reference them.

Stats:
HP: 1900
MP: 190
Strength: 10
Agility: 20
Vitality: 10
Intellect: 60
Spirit: 48
Defense: 27
Evade (Defense % listed n my game): 28%x2
Magic Defense: 24
Magic Defense %: 35%x3

Abilities:
Fight: 250 *whistles* (EDIT: this value might be inaccurate since I'm too lazy to look up Fairy Rod damage; it fails regardless!)
Spirit: Grants Regen, he heals about 30 HP a turn! However, it also inflicts Stop status on self, so this move is completely worthless.
Cura: 780 (960 w/ Sage's Miter + Kinesis Staff) Healing
Curaga: 2340 (2880 w/ Sage's Miter + Kinesis Staff) Healing
Curaja: Full Healing (is faster than Curaja, but more expensive)
Flare: 6900 Non Elemental Damage
Holy: 5005  (6160 w/ Sage's Miter + Kinesis Staff) Holy elemental Damage
Meteor: 9999 Holy Elemental damage, takes 3 turns to use

The rest of his abilities are the same as the other mages combined (all Black and White Magic, etc.)  However, given his lower stats, they'll be less effective in most ways.  Do note that, however, the status is still pretty accurate (Stop is still 100%, for example), and further tests will be made.  The relative damage difference from his vs. characters with the same spells should be shown pretty easily through Flare and Holy, so just adjust accordingly for spells like Quake or Agas.

For equipment options...

Weapon:
Kinesis Staff: +10 Spirit.  The other stats are completely negligible and you shouldn't give a shit about them.

Head:
Twisted Headband: 1 Def, 1 Mdef, 1% MEvade,  +5 Strength, grants immunity to Confusion
Sage's Miter: 5 Def, -2% Evade, 5 MDef, +7% MEvade, +5 Spirit

Body:
Gaia Gear: 4 Def, 3 Mdef, 4% MEvade, grants immunity to Petrify

Arms:
Diamond Armlet: 6 Def, 8 Mdef, 6% MEvade, grants resistance to Lightning

NOTE: I assumed Wizard Hat over Sage's Miter since while defenses are lower, he gets another Mult on his main damage.  Given his defenses are somewhat of a lost cause as is, figured he could use the offensive punch a bit more.  If you disagree, then Flare loses about 460 damage.

Next set of stats are taken at the end of Tower of Bab-il.  Kudos to super for getting them.  I'm also too lazy to reformat it to match the above, so just take what you get <_<

Yang
Level 30
Cat claw
Charm Claw
Headband
Kenpo Gi
Rune ring

HP: 1779
49 Strength
26 Agility (note he loses 3 Agility without the Charm Claw)
36 Vitality
5 Wisdom
6 Will
74x8 Attack
81% Hit (boosted to 96% with an elemental claw, 99% with the Hell Claw)
29 Defense
3x11% Evasion 
11 Mdef
0xwhatever MEvasion

Note that if Yang drops the Charm Claw, he loses an Evasion Mult.  This is FF4 Evasion, though, so he really isn't going to give a shit.

Abilities:
Physical: 567 (693 w/ Hell Claw) (672 w/ Elemental), 60%~ chance of inflicting Confusion and Sleep (Poison if Hell Claw is in use).  Note that FF4 seems to treat it as All or None, both for status rates and for actual immunity, meaning if you immune one status, the whole thing whiffs.
Kick: Crappy MT damage!  I forget exactly how the damage is, but I think its half Yang's physical...
Build Up: 1267 (1425) damage, one turn build up, raises accuracy (hence the higher than double damage), ignores counters, 60% chance of adding the same status the physical does, 633 (712) average damage
Endure: Raises Yang's Defense by like 5 points!!!

Other PCs to compare to!

Cecil
Level 30
HP: 1348
32 Strength
21 Agility
30 Vitality
17 Wisdom
21 Will
90x6 attack
87% hit rate
47 def
3x28% evasion
10 Mdef
1x12% MEvasion

Damage: 561 from his physical

Rosa
Level 30
949 HP
29 Strength
18 Agility
17 Vitality
18 Wisdom
50 Will
5x38 attack,
57% accuracy (moot thanks to Aim)
24 defense
2x28% evasion
20 MDef
2x28% Mevasion

Damage: 212 damage through Physical


Rydia
Level 29
613 HP
16 Strength
16 Agility
14 Vitality
38 Wisdom
39 Will
22 Defense
2x28% evade
20 MDef
2x29% Mevade

Damage: 1600 through Titan, 1200 through Bio (noting both cause Titan has a notable charge time)

Kain
Level 31
1213 HP
31 Strength
25 Agility
27 Vitality
8 Wisdom
20 Will
5x91 attack
87% accuracy
45 defense
4x28% evasion
10 Mdef
0xWhatever Mevade

Damage: 522 net average damage from Jump.

Averages!

HP:
1. Yang 1779
2. Cecil 1348
3. Kain 1213
4. Rosa 949
5. Rydia 613
Average: 1180

Damage:
1. Rydia 1600
2. Yang 633
3. Cecil 561
4. Kain 522
5. Rosa 212
Average: 705

Agility:
1. Yang 26
2. Kain 25
3. Cecil 21
4. Rosa 18
5. Rydia 16
Average: 21

Defense:
1. Cecil 47
2. Kain 45
3. Yang 29
4. Rosa 24
5. Rydia 22
Average: 33

Magic Defense:
1t. Rosa 20
1t. Rydia 20
3. Yang 11
4t. Kain 10
4t. Cecil 10
Average: 14

NOTE: Cecil can shift his defenses a bit, sacrificing some Physical defense for Magic Defense if he opts for some mage gear that's available in Dwarf Kingdom.  Make of this as you will.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2009, 02:49:48 AM by Meeplelard »
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Meeplelard

  • Fire Starter
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5356
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy 4(a) (Full)
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2007, 07:08:08 AM »
NOTE: The names here are from multiple versions of the game, so expect a variety of inconsistency as a result.
NOTE 2: The projected rankings are old and thus, completely out of whack as such; standards have changed, etc. since then, so don't take them too seriously.

Alright, a few things to note:
First off, for Cecil's damage, unless specified otherwise, assume his strongest weapon in terms of attack. Same goes for other fighters like Kain, Cid, and Yang.
Not going to bother listing Edge's Physical damage cause his throws are always doing more and that's what he's using on bosses.
Likewise, I am not listing Mage's physicals. Frankly, they suck, aren't worth noting ever EXCEPT...
in the case of Rosa and Porom. These 2 have NO Damage (well, before Holy anyway), so I am listing their damage with a Bow Set Up. Yeah, still bad, but at least it covers every ally on the team and such (in case someone bases damage off average damage per turn, granted, those 2 are generally just healing every turn anyway)
For Mage damage, assume they have their best Wisdom Boosting Rod (I would mention Rydia using Balance between Wisdom and Will (Summons are based off both stats mind), but she can't use much Will boosting equips


Due to FF4's system, its hard to tell if someone has good defense or magic defense unless its rather extreme, so…basically, assume their defense are around averagish unless noted otherwise.
Also note that due to the great range of defense and damage in FF4, I'm listing the damage ranges bosses due. Basically, assume its lower end for high defense characters (like Cecil for physicals), high end for low defense characters (like Yang for Magic)
Lastly, anything in Italics means that the attack was hitting a weakness, just for reference purposes.

Edit: I'm giving numerical values for boss speed. Basically, innitiative is obvious as if they have one, they will most surely get a turn right after (See Valvalis for example) The way I'm testing it is based on when thier first turn occurrs. Listing Cecil's speed, since once he's a Paladin, his speed is decidingly average, that, and some characters mess with the average a bit *Looks at Cid* at some points in the game.

Mist Dragon
(Courtesy of Tonfa, based on the FF4a version specifically if that matters!)
465 HP
Speed: Constant doubleturn bait
Average PCHP: 206

Physical: 7!!!
"The dragon turned into mist!": Evades all enemy attacks, can't attack, counters with Cold Mist in this form. Attack while its tail's up! *is shot*
Cold Mist: ...it's gonna counterattack with its laser. *shot again* Anyway, does 30 damage focused. (20 unfocused) Ice elemental?

Damages to it:

Cecil's physical: 25
Kain's physical: 20

Comments: Awesome durability. (Seriously, that's pretty insane) Other than that? >_> Uhh, 30HKO damage unless you provoke counters and doubleturn bait...tankishness does not save him from Puny.



Milon:
HP: 3500
Parties Average HP: 272
Speed: Slow

Abilities:
Physical: 1!!!
Lit: 65 Lightning elemental damage

Damage done to him:
Cecil's Physical (Black Sword): 275
Tellah's Level 1s: 100
Palom's Level 1s: 120
Palom's Level 2s: 500
Porom's Physical (Crossbow + White Arrows): 25
Palom's Boasted Level 1s: 240
Palom's Boasted Level 2s: 1000
Cecil's Dark Wave: 110
Twin Flare: 850


Note: Tellah can randomly cast different high leveled spelsl at this point. But due to the randomness, I left them off. Also Note that Tellah was equipped with the Staff here, and didn't have the Hat that Mysidia sells (called Triangle in the Rom I'm using, unsure on the name used in FF2US and FFC) so his magic damage is a bit lower than it could be, as he's missing a few Wisdom boosts from equips.

Comments: OMG! He can 3HKO the Twins! ...assuming they had Tellah's subpar equipment (subpar cause I was too lazy to upgrade it), and his lower Magic Defense stat. Yeah, his physical is hilariously bad, and his magic, well, its damage, but I'm not sure its going to get him far. This form is good for trashing Evil Gaia, as his other form is weak to Fire or something. I dunno. It sucks hard, no matter how you look at it. Clear Puny, though maybe winning.

Milon Z:
HP: 3523, weak to Fire and Holy, Absorbs Ice, Undead
Parties Average HP: 272

Speed: Above Average (he goes before Dark Knight Cecil, whose got good speed, with a Black Sword equipped)

Abilities:
Physical: 20-120 randomly inflicts poison
Breathe in Gas: Inflicts HP Down status

Damages done to him:
Cecil's Physical (Black Sword): 250
Porom's Physical (Crossbow + White Arrows): 220
Tellah's Fire: 70
Tellah's Level 1's: 35
Tellah's Cure 2: 145
Porom's Cure 2: 275

Palom's Fire 2: 1000
Palom's Boast Fire 2: 2000

Palom's Level 2s: 500
Palom's Boast Level 2s: 1000

Note: Again, Tellah is NOT opted for best damage potential here, so hence why his damage is lower than it could be. Note that even with that in mind, Porom and Palom still have about a +3 edge in thier respective stat (Porom in Will, Palom in Wisdom), so Tellah would still fall a bit short, though, not as much as these numbers would imply, persay.

Comments: Milon, to be frank, sucks. Being undead, he runs scared from any decent White Mage, though, note that FF4 undead do NOT get OHKOed by Revivification. Take that as you will. His damage is pure physical, so anyone with a decent defense score can take him down. Poison blows extremely, taking off about 20 HP a turn, yay! on top of that, he runs scared from good fire magic. Granted, Palom's level 2's are reasonably overpowered now, but still, being weak to Fire with less than Stellar HP is NOT a Good Combo. Though, absorbing Ice IS helpful, as is good speed. Despite how bad this form is, it owns his first form's for free, though, its still pretty bad. Light Bait.

Baigan:
HP: 4444
Party's Average HP: 476

Speed: Average
NOTE: Due to being a multi part boss, there's an illusion of him being fast, but that's more so his arms getting turns
Abilities:
Physical: 50-300
Wall: Reflects all spells done to him back at the caster, used as a counter to Magic only

Damage done to him:
Cecil's Physical (Legend Sword): 110
Cecil's Beserked Physical: 200
Porom's Physical (Crossbow + Light Arrows): 50
Palom's Level 2s: 600
Palom's Boasted Level 2s: 1200
Tellah's Level 2s: 450
Tellah's Level 3s: 1700
Tellah's Virus: 850
Yang's Physical: 180
Yang's Built Up Physical: 400

Comments: Baigan isn't that bad. In game, in fact, he's the first actual fight with anything resembling a strand of difficulty (well, besides DK Cecil, if you don't know how to beat him) His damage isn't bad, and being Multi Part in game makes him quite annoying. That Wall counter to Magic is what keeps him going in game, as physicals then, even Cecil's beserked, to be blunt, SUCK. Granted, as a dueler, he's not great, but eh, I guess he'd make a fine low middle.

Cagnazzo:
HP: 5312, Weak to Ice
Average HP: 501

Speed: Above average
Note: Due to how FF4 works, higher Evade basically means higher defense, per say. So evade of 50% effectively means takes 50% less damage, since FF4 works on a hit based system (Defense is near negligible unless its extreme)

Abilities:
Physical: 20-150
"Tsunami is Collecting": Puts himself in a "barrier" form. Next turn he uses Big Wave. Goes down when hit with any Lightning magic. Note that if the barrier is knocked down, it does NOT undo the initial charging of Big Wave. While in this state, he loses Ice weakness, but gains Thunder weakness.
Big Wave: Does magic damage based off users Current HP. At Max HP, this damage is around 300. It then gets linearly worse as his HP goes down. NOT ITD. Apparently Non elemental.
Haste: Supposedly boosts his speed. Unfortunately, FF4 haste seems to do little unless physical attacks are involved, take this as you will. Usable only when the barrier is up.
"Securing Defensive Position": Withdraws his head in his shell. In this state, he can't do anything but "Heal" Used when HP < 700. Has the usual Ice Weakness in this state. Evade is upped to 70%, and defense 2x3 (this means he reduces physical damage greatly)
Heal: Recovers 500 HP

Damage done to him:
Cecil's Physical (Legend Sword): 110
Cecil's Beserked Physical: 200
Porom's Physical (Cross Bow + White Arrows): 50
Yang's Physical: 450
Yang's Build Up: 900
Palom's Lit 2: 1200
Palom's Boast Lit 2: 2400

Palom's Level 2s: 600
Palom's Boast Level 2s: 1200
Tellah's Lit 3: 3500
Tellah's Level 3s: 1700


Comments: Big Wave does OK damage early on, then gets really scrubby. His Physical isn't much though, but his speed isn't half bad. His healing might come in handy in a pinch to take down some annoying enemy healers. Though, he runs scared from anyone using Lightning. He's basically an improved Milon Z, per se, in that he can  actually win a fight outside of Light, but still nothing impressive. Middle.

Dark Elf (Elf Form):
HP: 3980, weak to Holy
Average HP: 865

Speed: Average
Defense: Low
Magic Defense: High

Abilities:
"Tri Elemental Attack": 20-45 magic damage
Note: The attack is basically Fire 2, Ice 2, and Lit 2 cast in succession. The damage isn't generated til the end of Lit 2 (last spell cast)
Weak: Lowers HP to Single Digits, high hit rate
Whisper: Adds Piggy Status, High hit rate

Damage's to him:
Cecil's Physical (Slumber Sword): 300
Cecil's Physical (Legend Sword): 850
Yang's Physical: 300
Yang's Build Up: 600
Cid's Physical (Silver Hammer): 360
Tellah's Virus: 1!!!
Tellah's Level 3s: 500

Dark Elf (Dark Dragon form):
HP: 3927, weak to holy, vulnerable to Weak and Stop
Note: This form is chained directly with the previous form, and its clearly the same fight, take that as you will.
Average HP: 865

Speed: Average
Defense: Low
Magic Defense:

Abilities:
Physical: 200-450
Dark Dragon Breath: Damage = Targets MHP/4

Damages to him:
See previous form, he's identical defensivly in everyway, except now Weak hits him <_<

Comments: Well, if you let him form chain, he's alright, having good HP, first form being somewhat a PC killer with Weak, and Piggy is there to kill those reliant on special techniques. Form 2 is there for damage. Despite being a wuss in game, he's not a bad dueler. I'd give him Middle, I guess.

Magus Sisters!!!
Average HP: 991
Speed: Average

Mindy:
HP: 2590
Abilities:
"Delta Attack": This is technically used by Mindy, but is only used if all 3 sisters are alive. All of the spells she uses in this are cast on Cindy, who due to the way the battle is set up, is always under Reflect status. Attacks used in "Delta attack" are Fire 2, Ice 2, Lit 2, or Virus. She can only use those attacks in "Delta Attack" as well.
Fire 2: 150-400, Fire elemental damage
Ice 2: 150-400, Ice elemental damage
Lit 2: 150-400, Lightning Elemental damage
Virus: 300-500,. Non Elemental damage, adds HP Down status
Fire: 20-100 damage, Fire elemental
Ice: 20-100 damage, Ice elemental
Lit: 20-100 damage, Lightning Elemental
Venom: 1 damage, adds Poison Status

Cindy:
HP: 4599
Abilities:
Physical: 1-25
Remedy: Used only when one sister is dead. Revives all fallen Combatants.

Sandy:
HP: 2591
Abilities:
Wall: Reflects all magic. In game, she'll cast this on Cindy if she's alive. If she's not, then Mindy. If Mindy's dead, then she'll cast this on herself only. This is the only action she does when all 3 Sisters are alive. Note that she only uses this ONCE after a sister is dead, and can't use it anymore.
Berserk: Forces character to attack. Under Berserk Status, the person hits for 50% more damage, and has about doubled speed.
Slow: Halves Target's speed
Cure 2: Heals for 23 HP
Confuse: Adds confusion status. Under FF4 confusion, like all FF Confusion status', characters are forced to do actions that are beneficial to the enemy. I believe FF4's version forces them to use "Fight" only though (I could be wrong)

Damage's done to all 3:
Cecil's Physical (Flame Sword): 500
Cid's Physical (Earth Hammer): 520
Yang's Physical: 350
Yang's Build Up: 350
Tellah's level 3s: 2000
Tellah's Virus: 1300

Comments: Uhh...yeah, they suck when alone. Clearly meant to work as a team, its no wonder they get especially bad when you off Cindy (offing the other two just means Cindy brings them back, yay!), as now thier only forms of killing you are from Sandy's confusion, and Mindy's laughable level 1's. Granted, this form owns their FFX form *Rolls eyes*

Valvalis:
HP: 8636
Average HP: 1025

Speed: 19-20
Cecil's Speed: 18
Note: She has inniative, however, this turn is always used for "Spin" Take that as you will.

Abilities:
Physical: 200-400 damage
"Spin": Puts Valvalis in Spin Mode. While Spinning, her Evade is increased greatly, usually allowing only one of your 4-6 hits (character pending) to get through, and sometimes, having your characters miss completely. This is undone only by Kain's "Jump" in game. When undone, she counters with a physical. Note that it undoes itself even if Kain misses his Jump.
Weak: Lowers Character's HP to single digits, High Success rate, usable only during "Spin"
Fingertips: Adds Gradual Petrify status, perfect success rate, used immidiatly after Weak (IOWs, a double cast), usable only during "Spin" Can be stacked to speed up the proccess a whole turn more (takes about 4 turns or so for it to be full petrify)

Damage to her (assume not when spun. When she's spinning, her evade is much higher, so these damages are lowered to about 1/4 to 1/2 these values consistently, exception being Rosa's "Aim" which ignores her evade):
Cecil's Physical (Flame Sword): 500
Cid's Physical (Earth Hammer): 530
Kain's Jump (Wind Spear): 800
Rosa's Aim (Great Bow + Lit/Fire/Ice Arrow): 120
Yang's Physical: 350
Yang's Build Up: 700

Comments: Holy Twister Goddess, Batman, Valvalis is a huge step up from every other boss in FF4. Sure, her damage is all ST, and looks like something that could be undone easily with Rosa's Cure 2...til you realize that she smacks you every time you knock her out of Spin mode, likes to hit you with Gradual Petrify and Weak to smack your characters around, getting you into nasty situations. And then remember that in a duel, ST damage isn't a flaw. Granted, her damage isn't stellar, making any half decent Mage Boss better than her, but she reems Physical Bosses alive thanks to her "Spin" which lets her laugh at any physical thrown at her, basically. Good at killing PCs, and anti physical, she's a pretty respectable Heavy, if you ask me.

Golbez:
HP: 2800, weak to Fire and Holy
Average HP: 747 (no, not a typo. Remember that you just lost Cid, and he was replaced with Rydia, and those 2 are almost polar opposites on the HP curve, hence the drop)

Speed: Fast (he basically gets a turn right after Cecil AND Rydia)

Abilities:
Hold Gas: Adds Hold Status. Note that this move is used once during the scripted sequence, so its legality might be an issue.
Summon's Shadow Serpent: Summons the Shadow Serpent. This monster has at best 700 HP (ph34r!), and has only "Devour" which is Instant Death that never fails. Also used only during the scripted sequence, so its legality might be an issue.
Virus: 150, Non elemental damage, adds HP down status
Lit 3: 250-350 Lightning Damage
Fire 2: 60-150 Fire elemental damage

Damages to him:
NOTE: I only consider Cecil and Rydia's damage for this fight. I'm listing Kain's as well, though, as if your lucky enough, you can get him to jump and avoid the plot sequence. Rosa and Yang should remain dead (Chances are, he'll kill them the instant you revive them):
Cecil's Physical (Flame Sword): 1000
Cecil's Physical (Slumber Sword): 480
Cecil's Physical (Legend Sword): 750
Rydia's Mist Dragon: 750
Rydia's Ifrit: 1600
Rydia's Fire 2: 1300

Rydia's Level 2s: 650
Rydia's Shiva/Ramuh: 800
Rydia's Titan: 1200
Kain's Jump (Wind Spear): 900

Comments: Why is the big bad villain of FF4 who rules over the Fiends with an Iron Fist have the LOWEST HP OF ALL OF THEM? Combined with his fire and holy weakness, he gets smacked around quite a bit. To say nothing of how damage now is considerably better (at least physicals) than they were against Milon, who had all the same durability problems Golbez had. I guess the one saving grace he has is his speed, which is clearly good. but besides that? HA! The only way he can be half decent is if you let him summon his Plot Dragon and think it can manage to get a turn off before being OHKOed by the likes of Cristo, making him able to beat some slow PCs, I guess. Golbez really reminds me of Id, only horribly worse, in that he has "UBER l337 PLot POWARZ!" but his battle form comes nowhere near doing him to justice, or something, except that Id is still good enough to win matches in Heavy, Golbez is struggling to keep up with his competition in Light


Rubicant:
HP: 34000, takes 4x damage vs. Ice, absorbs Fire
Average HP: 1034

Speed: 22-23
Cecil's speed: 21

Abilities:
Fire 2: 250-450 (note that in game, he always casts this MT, so its damage is MUCH lower), used as a counter to all but summons
Glare: 1500-2500, Fire elemental, magical
Physical: 200-500, usable only in his "Guard Form", can be used 2x in a row
"Fire Cape": Puts him in "Guard form" In this mode, he absorbs all MAGIC Ice elemental damage, and becomes vulnerable to Fire (-_-Wink. It does nothing to physical elemental attacks though (Cecil's Icebrand did same damage to him in and out of this form) While in this form, all his moves are sealed off except his physical.

Damages to him:
Cecil's Physical (Ogre Axe): 700
Cecil's Physical (Icebrand): 2500
Kain's Jump (Blizzard Spear): 5000
Rosa's Aim (Killer Bow + Ice Arrow): 1200
Rosa's Aim (Killer Bow + Venom Arrow): 350
Rydia's Ice 2: 3000
Rydia's Shiva: 4500

Rydia's level 2s: 750
Rydia's Elemental Summons: 1100
Rydia's Virus: 1500
Rydia's Titan: 2000
Edge's Flood: 2400
Edge's Blitz: 600
Edge Throwing Shuriken: 1100

Fun AI notes: Anytime a summon is cast on him, he casts Ice 2 on himself. His Ice2 does 1200 to him. Take this as you will (pretty funny though) Also, for team battles, if a member of a party is dead, and a fire elemental MAGIC attack is cast on him, he'll counter by casting Raise on the whole party, which is quite funny (though fits his character)

Comments: Not much to say about Rubicant. His cape helps him against Ice Mages, he's perfectly immune to anyone who likes hurl Fire at him *waves hi to Hugo*, and he's got game best HP of ANY Required Boss until Zeromus (granted, only 2 required bosses remain, but still), having about quadruple the HP of what Valvalis had. How about his offenses? Easily the best of any REQUIRED boss in this game by far, up to this point, and scaled, its the best period. Glare is just sickening, and murders ANYONE without Fire Resistance, even Cecil (thankfully, in game, both CEcil and Kain can resist Fire with Ice Equips) His flaw is that anyone with Ice elemental physicals makes him running scared. He's also kind of fucked if you're immune to Fire, especially if you have good defense too. He reminds me a bit of Surt if Surt was a mage...kind of. Meh, oh well. Were it not for his relying on his one element, I'd peg him in God Like, but as it is, relying on one commonly blocked Element hurts a lot, so I'll just give him High Heavy, definitly champ material at that.


Demon Wall:
HP: 28,000, susceptible to Slow
Party's Average HP: 1446

Speed: Fast (he basically double turns right from the get go)

Abilities:
Move: Moves him one step closer to killing you. Usable 15 times. Everytime this is used, he follows with his physical instantly
Physical: 50-250 damage
Crash Down: Instant Death, 100% hit rate, Usable only after he's moved 15 times.
Stone Gaze: Adds Gradual Petrify, stackable, used as a counter to magic only, roughly 90% hit rate

Damages Done to him:
Cecil's Physical (Light Sword): 1200
Kain's Physical (Defender Sword): 900
Kain's Jump (Defender Sword): 1800
Rosa's Aim (Yoichi Bow + Angel Arrow): 400
Rydia's Virus: 2500
Rydia's Titan: 3200
Edge's Throw Shuriken: 1450

Comments: Well he's fast! And has instant death on his 15th Turn! ...and that's all he has going for him. His damage is Evil Gaiaesque, even RYDIA laughs at it, despite it being physical and all. Granted, he's a random filler boss based completely a time restraint before the ID, per say, so its not surprising he sucks.

Note: For Demon Wall, I had ALREADY gone to the Sylph Cave and Land of the Summon monsters, so my equipment is a good deal better than most. Things most notable are Aegis Shields (Cecil and Kain), Light Robes (Rosa and Rydia), Defender Sword (Kain, usable by Cecil too (his best weapon actually, like with Kain, difference is, Cecil's Light Sword is far closer in power to it than any (one handed) weapon Kain can use at the time, making Kain a better choice for it)), and Rydia's Fairy Rod (nice +5 Boost to Wisdom compared to any other weapon available at the time, giving her spells an offensive punch), so if you think those values are a bit high, that would be the reason.

Now, its time for...

Elements!!!
Average HP: 1795

Note: Not going to bother with damages to the elements, since I'm lazy. Basically, Cecil's Physical does about 2k to them (before weakness/resistance) w/ Excalibur, Edge's does about half that, Fusoya and Rydia his 9999 consistantly if hitting a weakness, otherwise, Rytdia's damage is just 5000 with Leviathan, and Fusoya's is about the same with Nuke. Rosa's physical is about 1500 if she hits a weakness with her arrows, and Milon takes 5000 from her Cure 4 (he's undead). Edge's magic damage is about 5000 when he's hitting lightning weakness, and much lower to the other 2 (Blitz > Flood and Flame, apparently, by a good margin)

Milon:
HP: 20,000, 4x weakness vs. fire, absorbs all other elements, Undead
Speed: Fast
Abilities:
Physical: 100-550
Note: For reasons unknown, Edge tends to take 900+ from his physical. This…is odd, as all 3 Mages have worse Evade AND Defense than Edge, and in the Front Row, most I saw from him was 666 to Fusoya UNDER CURSE.
Curse: Adds Cursed Status, high hit rate (under curse status, target takes about 2x the damage they normally would from physicals, and does Half damage back in return physically)

Comments: Wow, MUCH better than his previous (two) forms, this one is better in just about everyway. Even with 4x weakness to Fire, he takes hits better, and absorbing all other elements is incredibly nifty. Damage is still bad, but Curse makes up for this. Enough to save him from Light? I don't see why not, though, he's not much better than Middle in this form, and he still gets murdered by Seymour Omnis </inside Chat Joke>

Rubicant:
HP: 29,000, 4x weakness to Ice, absorbs all other elements, Mage type enemy
Speed: Fast
Abilties:
Fire 2: 200-300
Fire 3: 500-900
Glare: 800-1300
Note: Yes, they do Focus, just in game, he's forced to cast them MT.

Comments: Well, he's got better elemental resists here, and better speed, but he loses a good deal of offense, and his HP is worse UNSCALED. Only really useful in battles where he needs speed above all else. Doesn't get him out of Heavy though.

Cagnazzo:
HP: 23,000, 4x Weak vs. Lightning, absorbs all other elements
Speed: Fast
Abilities:
Physical: 600-1200
Big Wave: Does Damage = Target's Max HP/4

Comments: This form has better damage than his previous form, and is faster. Downside? He runs scared from anyone with Lightning attacks *waves hi to Geddoe* Still, not a bad form, probably better than his previous one, if only cause of being immune to every element. Enough to get him into Heavy? Dunno, but with this form, at least he's probably a High Middle now.

Valvalis:
HP: 27,000, 4x weak vs. Lightning and Holy
Speed: Fast
Abilities:
Fingertip: Adds Gradual Petrify
Physical: 600-1200
Maelstorm: Lowers enemies HP to Single Digits, MT, perfect hit rate (haven't seen it miss once)

Comments: Defensive game? Gone. All she has is her speed, and a bit better damage. Not ONLY does she not absorb all but one element like her brethren fiends do in their latest forms, BUT, she takes 4x damage from Lightning AND Holy, making her get murdered by both. To be blunt, there isn't much this form can do better than her previous form, its likely this won't see much use (the defensive game utterly destroys any arguments about Offense as far as I'm concerned) Based on this form alone, I guess she's an alright Heavy, good thing she has her other form.

As a side note, NEB was basically correct about the speeds, with one major thing I noticed:
Cagnazzo starts off with a HUGE Lag. I smacked him with about an attack from everyone once, and then managed to sneak another Edge physical and Rosa Cure 3 in as well, before he started attacking. After that, he started at usual "obscene speed" Though, I didn't see any 4-5 turns spreads from Valvalis or Milon, actually, Rubicant seemed the fastest (mind, this was only cause he actually attacked *3* times seemingly uninterrupted), not that this changes all THAT much, but they are all blazingly fast in these new forms. Whether you allow them or not is up to you.

Pale Dim:
HP: 32700
Party's Average HP: 2589

Speed: Above average

Abilities:
Physical: 1000-1300
Slow: Slows down targets speed, used as a counter to physicals
Quake: 350-600 damage, misses flying targets, used as a counter to magic only
Maelstrom: Lowers all targets HP to single digits, perfect hit rate (as far as I know)

Comments: Pale Dim is solid, in general. He basically forces you to never use magic with his Quake Counters, unless your floating, and his physical stings. Maelstrom is nasty as usual, and basically, if you aren't fast enough, he can off two characters quickly with his physical right there and then if Rosa doesn't get Cure 4 up.

Wyvern:
HP: 60,000

Speed: Average

Abilities:
Mega Flare: 1000-2200 damage, about 80% hit rate, usable at will OPB, and then can only be used as a Counter against him, reflectable
Note: Near as I can tell, Mega Flare (his version), is 2 "hits" Cecil took 1000, Rydia dodged it entirely, and everyone else took 2k~, and the attack is ITD, I believe
Wall: Reflects all spells done to him
Flare: 800-1600 damage, Ignores defense, in game, he always reflects this off himself, about 60% Hit rate, ph34r!

Not bothering with damage values, the guy's essentially end game, so no suprises should occurr and such (note that in agme, Rydia's best damage is likly coming from 4000 damage Quakes unless she has learned Nuke, and you bother to reflect is off yourself)

Comments: OMG! Its Wyvern! The ALMIGHTY SUPER BOSS OF FF4! HE'S THE ORIGINAL EMERALD WEAPON! Yeah, that's something many people have said about this guy in the past, at least when people often ask things like "is there a super boss?" and either they will say "Like FF4's Wyvern" or someone with respond with him, but you get the point. But take a close look at him...while his numbers aren't up yet, the Final Boss BEATS HIM IN EVERY WAY CONCEIVABLE. All Wyvern has going for him is Wall and countering summons with Mega Flare. His damage is equal to the almighty Big Bang, difference? He can use Mega Flare only at the beginning of the fight, Big Bang is used whenever, AND it doesn't have a crappy hit rate either. Zeromus' superior speed, ability to use Big Bang at will, forcing Rosa to basically throw Cure 4's around like crazy, having double this guys HP, etc. ...Now tell me, is this guy a Super Boss? Hell no. While he's not listed, his brethren Pale Dim was a far better fight, as he had a few neat tricks, and at least could kill you with well placed attacks. Wyvern just plain sucks, possibly the worst Lunar Guardian there is, and yet, he arguably has the best prize at that (Ragnarok)

Plague:
HP: 33333

Speed: Above average

Abilities:
Countdown: Adds condemned status to the whole team. When cast on someone with Condemned, it reset the counter. At 00, person dies, regardless of immunity to Instant death or not. Uses only when at least one person is NOT under this status.
Haste: Hastes party up, apparently, I think this is suppose to speed up the counter, but FF4 Haste seems to do little

Comments: Well, he's entirely instant death based, apparently, so he's an interesting boss in game. As a dueler? Well, he's not much, as his durability is pretty bad (33,333 HP is bad considering Rydia hits 9999 consistently, and Rosa doesn't get that far if she has Holy), though, an ID attack that ignores Immunity is good, I guess, if he live long enough.

D. Lunar:
HP: 23000, weak vs. Fire Undead
Note: There are two of them in game

Speed: Fast
Magic Defense: High

Abilities:
physical: 1-150 (OMG!)
Wall: Reflects all magic
Virus: Cast on self, 1500-2000 damage, adds HP down status
Flame: 500-700 damage, Fire elemental (at least I assume so)
Remedy: Heals 2300 HP, used only as a counter to Summons

Comments: Well, by himself, he's scrubby. In game, they are quite nasty, since as a team, they can gun down one character (unless its a Cecil) per turn if they get their VIrus' right, and their speed can be troublesome. Though, fun note is Cecil w/ Ragnarok does 9999 (or close to it) to Them. Best method would be weaken with Physicals for Rydia's Bahamut to obliterate them.

Ogopogo:
HP: 50000

Speed: Above Average

Abilities:
Big Wave: Does damage = Target's Max HP/4, since he double casts this, its effectivly Max HP/2. he CAN single cast if he wants too
Blaze: 500-700 Fire elemental damage
Physical: 700-900 damage

Comments: Ogopogo covers his bases pretty well for group control with Big Wave, especially since he double casts it, and Blaze isn't half bad (pity elemental resistance plentiful by then, with Crystal Helm, Dragon equips, and Defense rings running around) As a dueler, he's nothing particularly special. Low durability (like all the Lunar Bosses sans Wyvern), decent damage, eh, he's basically an improved Cagnazzo in his first form. Decent heavy, I guess.

And time for the big guy himself, its...

ZEROMUS
HP: 114,996 (or something like that)

Speed: High (he likes to double turn)

Abilities:
Flare: 1000-3000 damage, used as a counter to any attack magic besides Holy elemental ones, as well as cast at will once HP < 50%.
Maelstorm: Lowers targets HP to single digits, used only as a counter to Holy elemental magic
Shake: Indicates he's charging Big Bang
Big Bang: 1700~ damage to all, adds HP down status, Magical, non elemental, requires use of "Shake" before hand.
Note: The damage fluctuates A LOT. On one shot, most damage dealt was to Rosa doing 1300 (and Cecil took only 3 digits O_o), then after Kain came down, that "best" damage to Rosa was then the lowest...yeah...take that as you will, I blame FF4's screwy algorithms. After watching Cecil and Rosa get pelted with this many times (them being the only ones who survived his massive nukage due to toying with him),I've come to treat this as 1700 damage.
Virus: 1000-1500 damage, adds HP down status
Black Hole: Dispel
Meteo: 950 damage to all, laughable hit rate, ignores split damage, Holy elemental, usable only when HP > 10,000

Comments: He was much happier when we didn't realize that Flare was an HP < 50% move, at least as far as using it at will goes.  As a result, he relies off a charge time in Big Bang to kill, or use the weakish Virus, until 50% HP, then he can start hurling 2HKOs with Flare.  Yeah, not really much claim for Godlike anymore, though he's a spoiler Heavy and otherwise decent due to the speed, and magic counts.  Dispel doesn't hurt either, naturally.

Meeple Edit: Yeah, changed his description since it was dramatically out of date, etc.

Note about Zeromus' HP: Since Dark Heal is basically an instantaneous Action, and happens at a set amount, per se, I just did his Base HP (65498) doubled, then subtracted 16k from it (16k = when he uses "Dark heal") Mind, if you force Zeromus to actually use that one shot of full healing, be my guest, and such.
Do note that, mechanically speaking, this "Dark Heal" is basically nothing more than an HP Loop and personally, I'd treat it as such; Zeromus simply has *almost* twice  the HP sites will list him as (since they use in game data, which doesn't account for loops, obviously.) 

And no, that's no typo, apparently, Meteo is Holy elemental. That would be the only explanation as to why it and Holy get countered with Maelstrom and not Flare.
If your curious as to why Virus is doing closer to Flare than it should, and why Meteo does so little...its how Zeromus works. He randomly swaps his Spell Power around when he uses spells, so that they all have relative strengths and such (such that Big Bang is used with 36 Spell Power, Flare w/ 14, and Meteo with a godly *6*)
« Last Edit: October 04, 2008, 05:37:40 PM by Meeplelard »
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Meeplelard

  • Fire Starter
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5356
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy 4(a) (Full)
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2008, 09:21:44 PM »
Ok, something I just discovered...

The Minerva Plate in FF4a does *NOT* grant Instant Death immunity.  It hit on the second try.  Now, when I went back and tested the SNES version, it never hit, despite the same set up.

So...I'm wondering if this is a glitch caused by the fan translation hack of FF4 Hard Type.  Basically, here's what I'm asking...

Someone with Final Fantasy Chronicles (cause I don't trust FF2 US) test this.  Also, if its not too hard, check if Sylph's Healing is double that which the listed value is (believe FF4a might have fixed this as well.  I know FF2US has a different glitch associated with Sylph where its MP cost is 0, and it merely requires you to have the listed MP value.)

Also, if someone else wants to test it on the SNES Hard Type Rom and see if its just me having really weird luck or the translation I have really freaking fails, or it is indeed an actual change between FF4 and FF4a, then feel free.
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Meeplelard

  • Fire Starter
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5356
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy 4(a) (Full)
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2009, 07:36:17 PM »
Ok, finally doing Lunar Ruins shit.  First off, I should make a note about something:

FF4a has a known bug related to weapons.  Evidently, many weapons are suppose to had special OFFENSIVE effects.  But due to their placement, they actually do not do this, but instead, do the reverse; they prevent the effect as though they're armor.  As a result, if you're the kind of person who sees bugs fixed, if you see a weapon that says "Grants immunity to Death Status", for example, its actually "Adds Death Status."  
Evidently, this Bug was fixed in Japanese 1.1 and the European version, which apparently also had ATB related bugs fixed.  Make of all this as you will, but its worth noting.

Any DEFENSIVE equip works fine, mind, so those ignore this disclaimer; its 100% about weapons.

Only equips I allow are those that are unique, or storebought in the shop.  There's one exception in Palom/Porom's accessory cause you get two at the same time, and only they can use it, but everything else is either too universal, or there's not enough to go around like the Piggy Stick

Bolded means the object is now considered default.

Oh yeah, one last thing...

While its coded to do so, Dark resistance is effectively meaningless in game.  I don't mean "there are no good dark moves!" but rather, I mean there's literally NO Dark Attacks in the game once said equips appear.  The only dark moves are Cecil's Dark Swords, which can't be used that late.  As a result, its a pure technical thing.  Make of this as you will.

Cause I'm lazy, I'll be doing this one character at a time, cause otherwise, I'd be rushing this thing!

Cecil

Lightbringer (Weapon): 255 Attack (Maxed), 99% Accuracy (Maxed), +15 Strength, +15 Agility, +15 Stamina, 25% chance of casting Holy, Holy Elemental, 4x damage vs. Undead and Ghouls
Assassin's Knife (Weapon): 130 Attack, 99% accuracy (maxed), +15 Agility, Grants Immunity to Instant Death
Gigant Axe (Weapon): 200 attack, 75% Hit, 2 Handed, Grants immunity to Poison
Caesar Plate (Armor): 32 Def, 14 Mdef, 9% MEvade, Resists Holy and Dark, +10 Spr

Equipped Stats:
Attack: 255 * 14
Precision: 99%
Def: 95
Mdef: 33
Evade: 50% * 9
MEvade: 35% * 3
Agility: 48

Damages:
Lightbringer Physical: 4338 Holy elemental damage, 25% chance of casting Holy doing 5894, 5811 average damage
Assassin's Knife Physical: 2352 damage
Gigant's Axe Physical: 3273 damage
Cura's new healing: 840 (applies to all weapons)

Kain:

Abel's Lance (Weapon): 230 Attack,  85% hit, +15 Strength, +15 Agility, +15 Spirit, Lightning Elemental, casts Tornado dependent on enemy level (unconfirmed), said casting Ignores Boss Immunities
Assassin's Knife (Weapon): 130 Attack, 99% accuracy (maxed), +15 Agility, Grants Immunity to Instant Death
Gigant Axe (Weapon): 200 attack, 75% Hit, 2 Handed, Grants immunity to Poison
Dragoon Plate (Armor): 31 Def, 10 Mdef,  10% MEvade, +10 to Stamina, grants resistance to Fire, Ice and Lightning damage
Dragoon Gloves (Hand): 15 Def, 10 Mdef, 8% MEvade, changes Jump to Double Jump

Equipped Stats:
Attack 13 * 255
Precision: 99%
Def: 91
Mdef: 37
Evade: 54% * 7
MEvade: 31% * 2
Agility: 54

Abilities:
Abel's Lance Physical: 4028 Lightning elemental damage, randomly inflicts Tornado
Abel's Lance Jump: 8140 Lightning elemental damage, requires two turns to use, where after the first turn, Kain is invincible, 4070 average per turn, randomly casts Tornado
Abel's Lance Double Jump: 9999 Lightning elemental damage, requires two turns to use, where after the first turn, Kain is invincible, 4999 average per turn, randomly casts Tornado
Gigant Axe Physical: 2948
Gigant Axe Jump: 5507 damage, requires two turns to use, where after the first turn, Kain is invincible, 2753 average per turn
Gigant Axe Double Jump: 9999 damage, requires two turns to use, where after the first turn, Kain is invincible, 4999 average per turn
Assassin's Knife Physical: 2080
Assassin's Knife Jump: 4257 damage, requires two turns to use, where after the first turn, 2128 average per turn
Assassin's Knife Double Jump: 8514 damage, requires two turns to use, where after the first turn, 4257 per turn

Note about Double Jump: Double Jump is, as the name implies, two jumps in a row, HOWEVER, its still handled as one attack, thus slamming the damage cap.  As a result, if you're the kind of person who ignores damage caps, just double the damage done by Jump.  Note that unlike Jump, its not 4x damage; its calculated as two separate 2x damages in a row.  This matters due to FF4's subtraction based system.  
Also, evidently, (Double) Jump increases Kain's accuracy by 10% or some such...so Kain's damage in the main topic is understated by like 7%! I'll update when I get unlazy.

Rydia

Mist Whip (weapon): 100 Attack, 75% accuracy, +15 Int, resists Holy, grants immunity to Paralysis, ignores Row
Assassin's Knife (Weapon): 130 Attack, 99% accuracy (maxed), +15 Agility, Grants Immunity to Instant Death
Rainbow Robe (Armor): 25 Def, 35% Evade, 15 MDef, 10% Mevade, +10 Int, resists Fire, Ice, Lightning and Holy
Mist Ring (Hand): 15 Def, 18% Evade, 18 MDef, 15% Mevade, Mist Dragon summon now applies "Image" status to user and all allies


Equipped Stats:
Attack: 110 * 5
Precision: 88%
Def: 62
Mdef: 43
Evade: 63% * 3
MEvade: 50% * 4
Agility: 27

Rydia's damages are unchanged in ways that matter cause Flare already hits the damage cap, as such, not bothering with her skillset change; additionally, lesser damages ahve mild changes at best as well.  Her physical is still completely worthless!  I'd have gotten her physically twinked...except that Minerva Plate is illegal in all versions where Assassin's knife is available, thus kind of meaningless.
Ok, fine, there is one noteworthy change:
When Rydia casts Mist Dragon (Damage is based off her HP, so there's no change based on equips) when Mist Ring is equipped, it gives her (and any allies) Blink status.  Note that unlike Edge, Rosa and Porom's version, this only stops ONE physical attack, no two; its identical to those spells as though they were cast then were hit by a physiacl immediately after.

Edward:


Str: 39
Agl: 34
Sta: 21
Int: 23
Spr: 23

Loki's Lute (Weapon): 150 Attack, 99 Hit +15 Str, +15 Agl, +15 Sta, resists damage from Dragons, Mechs, Reptiles, Ghouls, Giants, Mages,
Undead

Vishnu Vest (Armor): 30 Defense, 30% Evade, 15 MDef, 6% MEvade, +10 Str, +10 Agl, +10 Sta, resists Fire, Ice, Lightning, Holy and Dark damage
Harmonius Ring (Accessory): 15 Def, 10% Evade, 20 MDef, 12% MEvade turns Sing into Chant

Equipped Stats:
Attack: 178 * 12
Precision: 99%
Def: 80
Mdef: 47
Evade: 80% * 8
MEvade: 31% * 3
Agility: 59

Abilities:
Fight: 2577 physical damage
Chant: Casts Protect and Shell

I'd get Assassin's Knife, but Edward's damage + HP combo pretty much mean he loses *ALL* slug fests, unless the enemy has absolutely no damage but instant death, so its not worth it, and without a Harp, he can't use Chant *OR* Sing.  With Loki's Lute, he not only has access to both, but a boat load of Species resists and better durability on top of all that.


Rosa:

Equipment:
Perseus Bow (Weapon #1): 55 attack,  +15 Spr, Resists Wind elemental
Perseus Arrow (Weapon #2): 95 Attack
White Dress (Armor): 26 Def, 23% Evade, 20 MDef, 18% MEvade, +10 Spr, immunes Silence and Berserk, resists Ghoul and Undead attacks
White Ring (Accessory): 15 Def, 8% Evade, 20 Mdef, 15% Mevade, turns Pray into Miracle

NOTE: No enemy actually uses Wind Damage in FF4, since its a pure PC element, though unlike Darkness, you can technically apply it by attacking yourself.  Make of this as you will.
NOTE 2: Since Rosa has Aim, and uses a Bow, I'm not bothering with Accuracy at all, since Aim makes it meaningless.  Note that the Arrows are consumable, but they're storebought, so stocking up on them is no problem.

Equipped Stats:
Attack: 173 * 7
Precision: Irrelevant
Def: 64
Mdef: 50
Evade: 61% * 3
MEvade: 54% * 3
Agility: 26

Abilities:
Aim: 1477 physical Damage, perfect accuracy
*Miracle: 50% chance of 1320 Healing, 50% chance of 3960 Healing w/ Full Status Healing, MT, cannot be used under any circumstance where Magic can't be used, like Silence (which...she immunes anyway)
Holy: 8855 Holy Elemental magic damage

*These values aer SLIGHTLY low due to missing a mult, but I'm honestly too lazy to look them up; the change is so minor, its really not worth bringing up at all.

Stay tuned for the rest!
« Last Edit: November 10, 2009, 07:54:55 PM by Meeplelard »
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

kokushishin

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 67
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy 4(a) (Full)
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2009, 02:09:36 AM »


Protect, Shell and Yang's Endure (which is basically Protect) are stackable.    By no means practical, but repeated uses could make a difference if the other side lacks Dispel.

superaielman

  • "Mordero daghain pas duente cuebiyar/The fear of death holds not my heart!"
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 9632
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy 4(a) (Full)
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2013, 08:19:31 PM »
Edward stats! Taken after the siege of Fabul. No Rosa in the averages.

Edward:

L13

HP: 159

STR: 10
SPD: 13

Lamia Harp
Feathered Cap
Bard's Tunic (Prevents Silence)
Iron Ring

Edward can opt for a Ruby Ring at the cost of 2 defense and +1 Mdef. The Ruby ring blocks Piggy. Edward can opt for the dream harp at -10 attack and get sleep instead of confusion.

Attack: 2x23 (93%)
Def: 1x8 (28%)
Mdef: 0x6 (6%)

Physical: 54, inflicts Confuse. Due to a quirk in FF4 mechanics, this only works if the target is slower than Edward.

Note: At under 25% life, Edward automatically hides. He can no longer attack, just hide and return in an endless loop.

Comments: Under half average PC HP before you factor in just how miserable his physical defense is. Also under half average damage, because Edward.  Puny.

Cecil:

L16

Deathbringer
Demon Shield
Demon Helm
Demon Armor
Demon Gloves

HP: 327

STR: 23
SPD: 19

Attack: 4x39 (94%)
Defense: 3x31 (24%)
Mdef: 0x4 (4%)

Physical: 187, inflicts instant death. See Edward notes.

Yang

L13

Fire claw
Thunder claw (The three elemental claws are interchangable)
Leather Hat
Leather Clothing
Iron Ring

HP: 429

STR: 15
SPD: 10

Attack: 2x (31) (83%)
Defense: 1x14 (25%)
Mdef: 0x4 (3%)

Physical: 66

Rydia:

L13

Rod
Feathered Cap
Leather Clothing
Iron Ring

HP: 168

SPD: 10

Defense: 1x9 (26%)
Mdef: 0x6 (8%)

Summon Chocobo: 217


HP average:

1. Yang: 429 (158%)
2. Cecil: 327 (121%)
3. Rydia: 168 (62%)
4. Edward: 159 (59%)

Average: 271

Defense:

1. Cecil (31)
2. Yang (14)
3. Rydia (9)
4. Edward (8)

Average: 15.5

Speed:

1. Cecil: 19
2. Edward: 13
3t. Yang: 10
3t. Rydia: 10

Average: 13

Damage:

1. Rydia (Chocobo, 217)
2. Cecil (Physical, 187)
2. Yang (Physical, 66)
4. Edward (Physical, 54)

Average: 131. Kill point: 327.5

Dark Knight Cecil stats! Taken at L19/14/14/23 IIRC.

HP:

1. Cecil (387) [1.4x PC HP]
2. Tellah (366)
3. Porom (176)
4. Palom (174)


Speed:

1. Cecil (21)
2t. Palom (9)
2t. Porom (9)
4. Tellah (8)

Average: 12

Defense:

1. Cecil (31)
2. Palom (14)
3t. Porom (13)
3t. Tellah (13)

Average: 18

Magic Defense:

1t. Palom (12)
1t. Porom (12)
1t. Tellah (12)
4. Cecil (4)

Damage:

1. Palom: 476 (Fira/Thundara/Blizzara)
2. Cecil: 258 (Physical). Cecil's physical is dark elemental and inflicts ID with a high probability of success.
3. Tellah: 83 (Fire/Thunder/Blizzard)
4. Porom: 34 (Physical)

Average: 213. Kill point: 533

Notes: It's what you would expect from Dark Knight Cecil. Solid damage backed by excellent stats and turn 1 ID. Cecil really wants this form to be legal in the DL, alas. Heavy, and a solid one at that.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2013, 03:29:45 AM by superaielman »
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
-------------------
<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

Reiska

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 251
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy 4(a) (Full)
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2015, 08:00:09 PM »
Documenting this, since the effect had been observed obliquely earlier in the thread, and it matters for this week's Nerf League fight:

FF4 has a "status priority" system.  This means that all the statuses in the game are ranked as follows:

Reflect->Gradual Petrify 1/3->Gradual Petrify 2/3->Death Sentence->Stop->Berserk->Charm->Sleep->Paralyze->Float->Curse->Poison->Blind->Silence->Pig->Mini->Toad->Stone->Dead

A character inflicted with a status generally becomes immune to all statuses LEFT of that status on that list.  They can still be affected by statuses to the RIGHT of that status.  Inflicting a status further to the right does not remove already-applied statuses to the left.  This means you can Silence a Cursed character and Curse will still stick, but you can't Curse a Silenced character, for example.  There are some exceptions noted below in the status descriptions.

The GBA port does not enforce status priorities between Toad, Mini, and Pig, but only those.  This is technically a bug, but the GBA-only superboss abuses it intentionally.

Also, since they're not documented above that I can see, here's FF4 status ailment effects.  Note that when I use the terms "PC magic" and "monster magic," I mean "PC-accessible magic" and "monster-only magic" by those.  So a Silenced enemy can't use Fire3, but they can use Emission just fine.  Conversely, a Mini'ed enemy can't use Emission but can cast Fire3.

Dead/Stone: Duh.

Toad: Attack = 1, Defense = 0, Evasion = 0, MDef mult = 0, attacker's damage is doubled, disables casting all magic except Toad itself and disables almost all PC commands.
Mini: Attack = 1, Defense = 0, Evasion = 0, attacker's damage is doubled, disables most PC physical commands and Twincast.  On GBA only it also disables all monster magic, that is, enemy skills which aren't PC-usable spells (bug).
Pig: Disables casting all magic except Pig itself.  (Doesn't disable Esuna out of battle, according to the BMG, but only out of battle.)  Also disables most PC commands. 

For the above three statuses, here's the complete list of commands that are blocked by them.  If a command isn't listed here at all, nothing blocks it.

Command                Status
-------                ------
White                  Toad, Piggy, Mute
Black                  Mute
Call/Summon            Toad, Piggy, Mute
Dark Wave              Toad, Mini, Piggy
Jump/Double Jump       Toad, Mini
Recall/Remember        Toad, Piggy, Mute
Sing/Chant             Mute
Aim                    Toad, Mini, Piggy
Power/Deadly/Build Up  Toad, Mini, Piggy, Poison
Kick                   Toad, Mini, Piggy, Float (Float is SNES only)
Gird/Endure            Toad, Mini, Piggy
Twin                   Toad, Mini, Piggy, Mute
Bluff/Strengthen       Toad, Mini, Piggy
Cry/Fake Tears         Toad, Mini, Piggy
Cover                  Toad, Mini
Peep/Study             Toad, Mini, Piggy
Dart/Throw             Toad, Mini
Sneak/Steal/Plunder    Toad
Ninja                  Toad, Piggy, Mute
Regen                  Toad, Mini, Piggy


Silence: Disables casting all PC magic.  Monster magic is not affected.
Blind: Halves physical accuracy, magical accuracy, and evasion.
Poison: Periodically does (MHP/8) damage to the affected combatant.  The damage ticks less often on PCs with high Vitality and enemies with high MHP.  Ignores status priority (can always be applied).  Note the ticks are very infrequent in-game.
Curse: Halves physical damage and physical defense.
Float: Nulls damage floors and the Quake spell.  Ignores status priority.
Paralyze: Disables action.  Wears off eventually; high Will (for PCs) or high Magic Attack (for monsters) shortens the duration.  On SNES, Sleeping characters are immune to Paralyze in spite of status priority.  Resets ATB and freezes it when applied.
Sleep: Disables action.  Wears off eventually; high Will (for PCs) or high Magic Attack (for monsters) shortens the duration.  Resets ATB and freezes it when applied.  Does not break on physical damage, like many games.
Charm: Against PCs, character acts semi-randomly, with targeting flipped.  Charmed characters cast all magic instantly.  Special commands other than White/Black will not be used.  Against enemies, forces an alternate AI script (which does not automatically mean self-harm, and varies from enemy to enemy).  Resets ATB when applied.  Breaks on physical damage,
Berserk: Character always attacks immediately when their ATB fills.  This results in a slight speed boost (due to no command input delay).  Damage is also boosted by 50%.  Resets ATB when applied.

Gradual Petrify: Works differently on SNES and GBA because bugs.  In both cases, it has 2 stages before full petrify.

On SNES:
1/3 Petrify: No effect other than to progress to 2/3 petrify eventually.  High Vitality (for PCs) or high MHP (for enemies) makes the progression slower.
2/3 Petrify: No effect other than to progress to Stone eventually.  High Vitality (for PCs) or high MHP (for enemies) makes the progression slower.
A combatant hit with a Gradual Petrify effect while already under 1/3 Petrify will immediately progress to 2/3 Petrify.
A combatant hit with a Gradual Petrify effect while already under 2/3 Petrify will immediately progress to Stone.

On GBA:
1/3 Petrify: No effect other than graphical change, does not progress automatically. 
2/3 Petrify: No effect other than to progress to Stone eventually.  High Vitality (for PCs) or high MHP (for enemies) makes the progression slower.
The first time a combatant is hit with a Gradual Petrify effect, 1/3 Petrify is applied.  The second time, nothing happens.  The third time, it progresses to 2/3 Petrify.
A combatant hit with a Gradual Petrify effect while already under 2/3 Petrify will immediately progress to Stone.

Stop: Freezes ATB when applied.  Also freezes timers from other status effects while in effect.  Resets ATB when it wears off.  Somewhat buggy on SNES with regard to interaction with other status.  Ignores status priority.  Fixed duration.
HP Leak: Subtracts 2 HP every battle tick.  Wears off once 60 HP is lost (normally; Haste/Slow mess with it).

Here's all the ways in which Stop's interaction with other timers is buggy on SNES when you combine Stop with the given status:
+ Poison: Damage never ticks, even after Stop wears off.
+ Paralyze or Sleep: Never wears off, even after Stop wears off.  (If this combination is applied on an enemy, it freezes the game.)
+ Gradual Petrification: Never progresses, even after Stop wears off.  (If this combination is applied on an enemy, it freezes the game.)
+ another Stop: Resets Stop's timer.
+ Death Sentence: Stops counting, even after Stop wears off.
+ HP Leak: Never wears off, even after Stop wears off.

Other stuff of note:

FF4 enemy defense is really low.  I didn't actually calculate an average, but in looking through the bestiary on SNES using a ROM editing tool, no enemy in the game had higher than 5 defense except for jellies (which had 254). 
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 08:21:56 PM by Reiska »

DragonKnight Zero

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 518
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy 4(a) (Full)
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2018, 09:59:04 AM »
Updated speed stuff

The community at FF4 Free Enterprise has learned a lot about how FF4's ATB system works.  Credits to them for the information to follow.

Reference document link: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XEi55t8363mfvUOmSaGbBPuce9SMnX4iTHJRmrk5BeE/edit

  In short (for those who don't want to follow another link), the game scales the in battle speed of all characters and enemies around Cecil's agility.  If Cecil is not present, such as the spoony bard plot fight, it scales to the character in the middle slot (or highest priority slot if the middle slot is empty).

Formula is (Cecil's Agi * 5/unit's Agi) rounded down to nearest integer.  With this information, one can work out the in battle speeds (which I will refer to as RS, short for relative speed) of other party members.  Cecil will always be at 5 RS, regardless of what he's using.

For demonstration, the agilities of the final 5 in their dueling setups:

Cecil: 33
Kain: 39
Rydia: 27
Rosa: 26
Edge: 55

Plugging numbers in, their relative speeds:

Cecil: 5
Kain: 4
Rydia: 6
Rosa: 6
Edge: 3

Actions have a delay before execution so in practice a 5 RS character will not constantly doubleturn a 10 RS character.  Also, ATB time continues to move while moving the cursor to the desired command and choosing a target (if not via a Magic, Item, or Throw).  For consistency, when listing effective speeds, I'm adding a tick to input the command and 2 before it is used.  2 ticks generally pass before basic Fight and Item actions go; special commands vary by command.  So Cecil swinging away at an opponent will attack every 8 ticks.  A berserk character skips input and execution delay and goes when its ATB is full.  Thus, if two characters have the same speed, the berserk one is actually attacking faster than one that is bashing away selecting Fight each time.

Modified effective speeds for final 5 after adjustment rounded to nearest whole %
Cecil: 100%
Kain: 114%
Rydia and Rosa: 89% before casting delays are factored in.
Edge: 133%

Slow, Haste, and the speed modifier

  Deathlike's Algorithms FAQ at gameFAQs mentions a speed modifier though it's only when combined with the relative speed paradign that it makes sense.  Speed modifier starts each battle at 16 and has a lower and upper limit of 12 and 32 respectively.  A unit's RS will be adjusted by the speed modifier by (RS * SpdMod/16)  For the non-math inclined, lower speed modifier results in faster characters.

Slow raises the speed modifier by 8.
Spiderweb item raises it by 16.
Haste and the Masamune itemcast lower the modifier by 3.
Hermes shoes item lowers it by 8.

Speed modifier affects relative speed and the casting time of spells.  Two examples:  Cecil attacks the White Dragon and it lands a Slow counter on him.  His new RS will be (5 * 24/16) = 7.5 which gets rounded down to 7.

Example #2: Rosa (RS6) casts Haste on herself.  She will now be at (6 * 13/16) = 4.875 which rounds down to 4.  She's now as fast as Kain.  Her spells will also cast faster.  Not really noticeable with the fast spells but slower ones like Holy and Mini will cast faster now.  Holy has a wait time of 3 which translates into 6 ATB ticks of charging time.  Haste will reduce its casting time to 4 ATB ticks.

Magic charge times are independent of a character's speed.  Twin magic in the original release appears to be an exception though; it appears to scale to the RS of the twins.  Seems to take RS * 2 ATB ticks to charge but that's a guess from observation.

Enemy MP is equal to their max HP/16.  They never use it themselves so only relevant as an alternate source of MP for Osmose casters.  That's if the enemy's magic defense is low enough to not have Osmose tink for 1 every time, that is.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2018, 06:26:11 AM by DragonKnight Zero »