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So which one are you voting for, huh?!

John McCain
3 (9.4%)
Barack Obama
21 (65.6%)
Third Party/Misc
3 (9.4%)
Unsure
3 (9.4%)
Not voting
2 (6.3%)

Total Members Voted: 31

Author Topic: Grand political roundup  (Read 54801 times)

InfinityDragon

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Re: Who are you voting for come November?
« Reply #200 on: September 22, 2008, 03:29:16 AM »
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Ehhh. Come back to me when we can control the weather. Until then I will remain skeptical.

Didn't you hear? Bush controlled Katrina and sent it into New Orleans 'cause he hates black people.

Shale

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Re: Who are you voting for come November?
« Reply #201 on: September 22, 2008, 04:07:38 AM »
ID is Kanye West?

This answers so many questions.
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BaconForTheSoul

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Re: Who are you voting for come November?
« Reply #202 on: September 22, 2008, 06:50:01 AM »
Like I said, if you want to legalize abortion, legalize EVERYTHING ELSE TOO.   Legalize drugs, ditch age limits on anything, fuck seat belt laws, don't force kids to go to school, don't force parents into forcing their kids to go to school, don't force me to pay social security taxes that I'll never see again, drop speed limits for good drivers, legalize suicide... hell make Futurama suicide booths a reality.  Don't try and give me that personal freedom crap.  People give up dozens of personal freedoms every day and don't think twice about it.  However, when they fuckup bigtime (OMG WHO KNOW SEX COULD MAKE ME PREGGO!?!?!), they want a bailout.

Several of those usually have bad attached consequences for the rest of society (Drugs, Not forcing school, Speed limits), making them completely different issues. Allowing 8 year olds to drive is not equivalent to abortion in any way.

Someone who uses drugs in their own home isn't hurting anyone.  There's plenty of funtioning alcoholics out there and there are plenty of funtioning drug users.  Forcing school apparently isn't working anyway, with dropouts rates in many cities above 50% now.  Might as well save the state money for kids who care.  And as long as I don't crash into anyone else, I should be able to go as fast as I want.  (The last one is a stretch I know.)  Either way, I believe abortion has consequences to society too.  One, people become whores, increasing STD rates.  (I'd have to find proof of this, but it has to be true.)  Two, awful presidents are elected simply because they don't like abortion.  Three, helps increase divorce rates.  (Which could be a good thing, who knows.)  Although, abortion does have positives like I said.  Crime/Poverty both dropped 18 years after we legalized it.  Now if we'd just start heartlessly executing all people who bring society down, we'd be good to go.

Edit: The age thing was more about drinking, smoking, voting, etc.  Who are we to tell 8 year olds that they cannot drink and smoke.  Don't try and tell me it's because they have undeveloped and immature minds because technically our minds aren't done maturing until we're around 26.  I believe we're restricting the free will and the right to choose of children.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2008, 06:55:51 AM by Chapin »

BaconForTheSoul

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Re: Who are you voting for come November?
« Reply #203 on: September 22, 2008, 06:53:38 AM »
Abortion is a get out of jail free card for idiots.

America has a much higher rate of accidental pregnancy than other comparably advanced countries.  Lack of education and lack of birth control seem to be the primary culprits.  So if we're blaming people for being stupid, we should also be looking at why they are.

Biggest reason for this is probably just how America operates. 
We're highly individualized, even moreso than other individualized countries.  This leads to a whole slew of societal problems.
We teach our children to dream and think big, as if anything is possible.  This is obviously a huge load of shit that leads to a lot of unhappy people.  Is it related to this problem?  Probably not, but it's still a serious issue.
We actually frown on birth control/education in many parts of the country, so when people do become whores they do it in the wrong way.
We don't think it's okay to hit children.


And screw needing a deed to call the planet ours.  We kill what we want when we want, we deplete any resources we want, we contaminate places we want.  My parents have a deed to their house and they can't even do half that stuff.  You're right though, once we blow ourselves up the planet will go back to someone else.  (Sharks probably, those fuckers will never die out.  The really badass ones will learn to walk on radiation soaked land too.)
« Last Edit: September 22, 2008, 06:58:15 AM by Chapin »

BaconForTheSoul

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Re: Who are you voting for come November?
« Reply #204 on: September 22, 2008, 07:03:34 AM »
ID is Kanye West?

This answers so many questions.

We all know that God hangs out with Bush and has that he has the form of a 40 year old white male.  If God himself is white, why should Bush care about anyone else?  (Except Middle Eastern royalty, but that's for obvious reasons.)

Grefter

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Re: Who are you voting for come November?
« Reply #205 on: September 22, 2008, 08:53:20 AM »
You are attacking an unrelated problem with symptoms of other failures in society.

Abortion as an act has nothing to do with who got elected president or the quality of that stand, nor was it the entirety of their campaign.

Abortion doesn't make people drop out of school (Uh the opposite is more likely...), having sex doesn't explcitly make them drop out of school.  This is the same kind of response people had to birth control in the 60's with less emphasis on get back in the kitchen bitch rhetoric.

Abortion helps increase divorce rates?  What?  It might put more pressure on some relationships yes, but so does an unwanted child.  Divorce rates have been going up in the western world fairly steadilly for the last 40 years or so.  I wouldn't attribute it to Abortion specficially.

There is a happy medium you can have here.  There doesn't have to be a eugenics driven society that chemically castrates anyone with any kind of genetic disorder and euthenises anyone with below average IQ.  If a parent knows that their child is going to have a disability at birth and they think they can raise it comfortabley anyway, more power to them.  You should not take away this ability for a parent to acknowledge their own inability to raise this child and save themselves from an incredibly difficult life, save the child that same fate (or any fate at all, so be it) if they are prepared to do so.

And again, you are approaching politics in a reactionary manner.  Work backwards from a goal for society, not attacking each problem that comes up while letting society waddle along its own way when you clearly have some ultimate ideal that you hold society up to uphold.  I also dream of a society where people with disabilities are not abused as a matter of course and where the people that work with them are not horribly underpayed, understaffed, overworked and undertrained.  It doesn't mean that because I believe abortion as a choice is a positive thing to society that I think we should be out executing every single fucking one of them.

Edit - Classic example.  The work week is to long.  If the work week per person were shorter then staff in such a case would be less stressed from being overworked, you would need more staff per position therefore increasing the pool of staff available in times of crisis.  A significant part of this problem stems from overpopulation.  Do the math.  Abortion is good for me.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2008, 08:55:41 AM by Grefter »
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NotMiki

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Re: Who are you voting for come November?
« Reply #206 on: September 22, 2008, 01:35:03 PM »
Gref, I agree with the rest of what you said, but I think abortion probably has a lot to do with higher divorce rates.  Marriage used to be more explicitly about raising children than it is now.  Good contraception and abortion made that cultural change possible (contraception is the more important factor but abortion is a vital backstop).  Fewer marriages with kids means fewer marriages that may be committed to succeeding even if the couple sours.  Shotgun weddings used to be normal occurrences as short as 50 years ago, but they're rare today.  Same reason.

Now, for all you abortion supporters who believe in a woman's right to choose, I have a question.  It is common in India and China for parents to abort female fetuses in favor of male ones.  Is that acceptible?

Also, mods, think we can get the name of this topic changed to something more generically political?
« Last Edit: September 22, 2008, 01:39:02 PM by NotMiki »
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Grefter

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Re: Who are you voting for come November?
« Reply #207 on: September 22, 2008, 01:54:20 PM »
A marriage that has soured and stays together "for the kids" is an unhealthy relationship and in a familly that dysfunctional I would make a call that it is probably worse for the child than dealing with the parents breaking up.  Just as an aside though.

Fair enough though, what works and doesn't work for relationships is fairly variable, how you view the probabilities and statistics of it can be fairly subjective methinks.

It is right in those cultures I suppose (maybe frowned upon).  It is the parents choice.  If they want to engage on that kind of small scale in the familly eugenics then go for it.  It is unhealthy for the society, but whatever, their choice.  I see little difference between that and any other kind of unwanted child.
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Re: Who are you voting for come November?
« Reply #208 on: September 22, 2008, 04:10:58 PM »
Notmiki: Mostly agreeing with Grefter here. Having a notably lopsided gender ratio comes with a variety of problems, but it's their society and if they want to fuck around for the sake of what I see as some extremely silly and outmoded gender biases then they can live with the consequences. (Yes, I'm judging other cultures based on my experience, but this is a sticking point with me. I see no rational reason to place higher inherent worth on one gender in modern society. I do not have any patience for that shit).

Aside from that, you can't really force a country with a quarter of the world's population to do anything.

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Re: Who are you voting for come November?
« Reply #209 on: September 22, 2008, 04:20:31 PM »
Notmiki: Mostly agreeing with Grefter here. Having a notably lopsided gender ratio comes with a variety of problems, but it's their society and if they want to fuck around for the sake of what I see as some extremely silly and outmoded gender biases then they can live with the consequences. (Yes, I'm judging other cultures based on my experience, but this is a sticking point with me. I see no rational reason to place higher inherent worth on one gender in modern society. I do not have any patience for that shit).

Aside from that, you can't really force a country with a quarter of the world's population to do anything.

You would be quite surprised, honestly, how little that population means in anything but economic/ecologic terms nowadays - and the economic factor's not big enough if all the other governments go "lawl no do something about this or we don't trade". Globalization makes mass sway deceptively easier to perform.

Sierra

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Re: Who are you voting for come November?
« Reply #210 on: September 22, 2008, 05:52:32 PM »
Forcing school apparently isn't working anyway, with dropouts rates in many cities above 50% now.

Calling bullshit on this. Give us a reliable source or give it up. 

Edit: The age thing was more about drinking, smoking, voting, etc.  Who are we to tell 8 year olds that they cannot drink and smoke.  Don't try and tell me it's because they have undeveloped and immature minds because technically our minds aren't done maturing until we're around 26.  I believe we're restricting the free will and the right to choose of children.

Who are we to deny them these things? Well, not speaking for myself, but in many cases it's their parents denying these things because they'd rather have their kids grow up to do something more useful than be mindless hedonists. A: physiologically, drugs would have more pronounced effects on kids. B: people in the age bracket you're talking about wouldn't really have any idea what they were getting into. Sure, I expect you to counter by saying that teenagers don't have much common sense either, but they're better off than grade-schoolers in this regard (and anyway, I get the impression you don't think anyone is intelligent enough to make their own decisions).

And screw needing a deed to call the planet ours.  We kill what we want when we want, we deplete any resources we want, we contaminate places we want.

Sure we do. Doesn't mean it's a good idea, or that we won't pay for doing these things irresponsibly. But I get the impression that consequences extending past your own lifespan aren't really your concern. Seriously, every post you've made here reads like Grefter's "lol people suck" rants except minus the humor, intellectual coherence, and the (carefully hidden) respectful humanism lurking beneath his baby-eating exterior. Are you just a nihilist, or what?

Also, human-centric views of the universe are so boring. Just the sheer arrogance of it, the assumption that any timeframe with me in it is the only one of relevance. Geologically speaking, we're a blip on the radar. Microscopic lifeforms outnumber us by several factors of ten, they've certainly been here far longer, and you can't really claim we can control them or have any means of wiping them out that does not also involve our own destruction. It's a fallacy to assume that larger lifeform = greater control. We're really just squatting here.

InfinityDragon

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Re: Who are you voting for come November?
« Reply #211 on: September 22, 2008, 08:04:11 PM »
Quote
Calling bullshit on this. Give us a reliable source or give it up.

No, he's right.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2006-06-20-dropout-rates_x.htm#grad

superaielman

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Re: Who are you voting for come November?
« Reply #212 on: September 22, 2008, 08:17:27 PM »
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66.5    Virginia Beach    38

I'd love to see the school by school breakdown. I know Bayside and Green Run (Drew a very bad selection of students) and Cox/Princess Anne had a fairly high graduation rate by comparsion. Something like 55% to 75%?   I can only imagine how bad some of the inner city schools in Detroit were if the overall score is in the low 20% range for graduation rates.
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BaconForTheSoul

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Re: Who are you voting for come November?
« Reply #213 on: September 22, 2008, 08:35:33 PM »
Quote
Quote from: Chapin on Today at 05:50:01 AM
Forcing school apparently isn't working anyway, with dropouts rates in many cities above 50% now.

Calling bullshit on this. Give us a reliable source or give it up.

ID saved me 10 seconds on this one.  Get in touch with reality.  This doesn't even take into account the countless students that graduate with no knowledge of anything.  You can graduate these days without speaking English or even being able to read.


Quote
Quote
Quote from: Chapin on Today at 05:50:01 AM
Edit: The age thing was more about drinking, smoking, voting, etc.  Who are we to tell 8 year olds that they cannot drink and smoke.  Don't try and tell me it's because they have undeveloped and immature minds because technically our minds aren't done maturing until we're around 26.  I believe we're restricting the free will and the right to choose of children.

Who are we to deny them these things? Well, not speaking for myself, but in many cases it's their parents denying these things because they'd rather have their kids grow up to do something more useful than be mindless hedonists. A: physiologically, drugs would have more pronounced effects on kids. B: people in the age bracket you're talking about wouldn't really have any idea what they were getting into. Sure, I expect you to counter by saying that teenagers don't have much common sense either, but they're better off than grade-schoolers in this regard (and anyway, I get the impression you don't think anyone is intelligent enough to make their own decisions).

In the whole scheme of things, most people really are too stupid to make their own decisions, but that's not the point.  If you're going to let people "Do what they want to their own bodies" in some cases, you need to allow it in ALL cases.  The whole "You can't tell me what to do" argument is bullshit based on the idea that people let others tell them what to do their entire lives and generally accept it.  Until of course they fuck up big time and get knocked up.  Then it's onto "OMG MY BODY!"


Quote
Quote from: Chapin on Today at 05:53:38 AM
And screw needing a deed to call the planet ours.  We kill what we want when we want, we deplete any resources we want, we contaminate places we want.

Also, human-centric views of the universe are so boring. Just the sheer arrogance of it, the assumption that any timeframe with me in it is the only one of relevance. Geologically speaking, we're a blip on the radar. Microscopic lifeforms outnumber us by several factors of ten, they've certainly been here far longer, and you can't really claim we can control them or have any means of wiping them out that does not also involve our own destruction. It's a fallacy to assume that larger lifeform = greater control. We're really just squatting here.

Blah blah we've been here only few hundred thousand years and we've only been dominant for 10,000.  If the Earth's life were a day then we humans would be 10 seconds.  In that 10 seconds we've taken over like no species ever has before. 

Who the fuck said anything about the universe?  Humans are most likely trash compared to the greater species in the universe just like every other species on Earth is trash compared to us.  Also, he time frame that matters is now.  Looking back 2 billion years and seeing who mattered then means just as much as comparing America now to America 200 years ago.  You honestly think I believe the present matters more because I live in it?  That's just stupid.  In 10,000 years what's going on now won't mean shit, even though I lived in it.  If humans still rule, they do.  If we've wiped ourselves out then there will either be a new dominant species or things will go back to how they used to be.


This topic is pointless now.  Most of the stuff coming out is opinion, and the facts just get ignored by the side that chooses to ignore them.  Not to mention quoting someone and then adding to what they said.  (LOL thinking humans mean shit to the universe.)
« Last Edit: September 22, 2008, 08:38:07 PM by Chapin »

BaconForTheSoul

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Re: Who are you voting for come November?
« Reply #214 on: September 22, 2008, 08:39:48 PM »
Quote
66.5    Virginia Beach    38

I'd love to see the school by school breakdown. I know Bayside and Green Run (Drew a very bad selection of students) and Cox/Princess Anne had a fairly high graduation rate by comparsion. Something like 55% to 75%?   I can only imagine how bad some of the inner city schools in Detroit were if the overall score is in the low 20% range for graduation rates.

I saw it by league once for Oregon a few years back.  PIL (Portland something League) had a 60% graduation rate overall, with some of the schools down in the 40s.  Metro league had right around 90.  This was from 2003 though, and sadly, Portland does better than most cities in graduating their kids.

But yeah, with Detroit's breakdown they no doubt have schools with single digit graduation rates.  And High School High was supposed to be a comedy...

Sierra

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Re: Who are you voting for come November?
« Reply #215 on: September 22, 2008, 09:10:20 PM »
This doesn't even take into account the countless students that graduate with no knowledge of anything.

Now, that part is something I'd never dispute.

Blah blah we've been here only few hundred thousand years and we've only been dominant for 10,000.  If the Earth's life were a day then we humans would be 10 seconds.  In that 10 seconds we've taken over like no species ever has before. 

Who the fuck said anything about the universe?  Humans are most likely trash compared to the greater species in the universe just like every other species on Earth is trash compared to us.  Also, he time frame that matters is now.  Looking back 2 billion years and seeing who mattered then means just as much as comparing America now to America 200 years ago.  You honestly think I believe the present matters more because I live in it?

Not you specifically. But present circumstances heavily influence many peoples' perception of past and future because it's all they've known. The Earth functionally is the universe to us, which was basically the point. I find it interesting to look at how people can or can't incorporate vast scales into their view of reality. Apparently others do not. Regardless, it was the total self-involvement that I was marvelling at and you've only contributed to that impression. "Every other species on Earth is trash compared to us." What a dreary way to look at the world. You don't need to tell me a lot of people share that attitude. I know, and I pity them for it.

And really, I'm having a hard time believing much of anything matters to you. Though you didn't directly answer the primary question of my post--

Are you just a nihilist, or what?

--I no longer think you have to. I'm not really seeing much more than a cynic who relishes mocking others for their mistakes and provides nothing to help rectify them beyond bile.

This topic is pointless now.  Most of the stuff coming out is opinion, and the facts just get ignored by the side that chooses to ignore them.

Yeah, because personal opinion never gets factored into political discussion. Actually, I think the thread's had a pretty lively and civil back and forth until now. It's no fault of mine if you can't deal with others not viewing the world as a worthless shithole.

Dunefar

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Re: Who are you voting for come November?
« Reply #216 on: September 22, 2008, 09:14:41 PM »
Just a reminder to keep this civil, intelligent and respectful, people.

Edit for elaboration: Kick it down a notch, Cid and Chapin. The namecalling's out of bounds.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2008, 09:20:45 PM by Dunefar »
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Re: Who are you voting for come November?
« Reply #217 on: September 22, 2008, 09:26:30 PM »
Eh. I'm not trying to start anything. This is what happens when you mix acids and bases.

Frankly, I didn't consider it out of bounds to note that Chapin's string of posts was pretty much the most cyincal diatribe I've ever seen on this board. Because it pretty much is. If something more specific was problematic, let me know.

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Re: Who are you voting for come November?
« Reply #218 on: September 22, 2008, 10:06:06 PM »
Someone who uses drugs in their own home isn't hurting anyone.  There's plenty of funtioning alcoholics out there and there are plenty of funtioning drug users.  Forcing school apparently isn't working anyway, with dropouts rates in many cities above 50% now.  Might as well save the state money for kids who care.  And as long as I don't crash into anyone else, I should be able to go as fast as I want.  (The last one is a stretch I know.)  Either way, I believe abortion has consequences to society too.  One, people become whores, increasing STD rates.  (I'd have to find proof of this, but it has to be true.)  Two, awful presidents are elected simply because they don't like abortion.  Three, helps increase divorce rates.  (Which could be a good thing, who knows.)  Although, abortion does have positives like I said.  Crime/Poverty both dropped 18 years after we legalized it.  Now if we'd just start heartlessly executing all people who bring society down, we'd be good to go.

Edit: The age thing was more about drinking, smoking, voting, etc.  Who are we to tell 8 year olds that they cannot drink and smoke.  Don't try and tell me it's because they have undeveloped and immature minds because technically our minds aren't done maturing until we're around 26.  I believe we're restricting the free will and the right to choose of children.


In their own home is the key part with drugs. If you legalize it, you can't force myself to do it in their home (I'm generally pro-legalization on some drugs- Marijuana for cancers patients at the very least). There are plenty of functioning alcohols and drug users, but by the same token, there are plenty who aren't really functioning, or are functioning until they go overboard. I'm not anti-drug or alcohol by any mean, but generally restricting these things in some manner are good ideas. Yes, you can do them safety in your own home, but you can't force people to do them in their own home. Once you do it outside your home, it's something with the potential to effect everyone else.

If forcing school is keeping even a few kids in that might otherwise drop out, then it's a good thing. In fact, they should be erecting more barriers to try to keep kids in school, not removing them. Tighten up working requirements so that getting a job without a high school diploma or without being in high school is damn difficult. Don't let drop-out children be claimed on a parent's tax returns, or have it even count against them. They really should be doing whatever they possibly can within the limits of legality to stop this. Getting them to actually learn something is a whole different issue, but I'd personally just see make higher graduating requirements and keep those working restrictions in place no matter what age a person is.

Abortion probably doesn't help sluttiness rates, but the rise of teenage mothers, let alone teenage mothers with two children, shows that there are probably larger problems at play there than abortion. If people catch an STD and then still engage in reckless sexual practices though, I can't imagine the legality of abotion is really going to effect them much.

Minds may not be done maturing until they are 26, but that doesn't mean that an 8 year old should be given decision making powers. An 18 year old is still a lot closer to having a fully mature mind than an 8 year old. Sure, age isn't the best barometer of maturity given that there are 40 year olds who probably shouldn't be making their own decisions, but it's the only semi-accurate and realistic one that we have. (Alternately, higher penalties on stuff like this for high school dropouts? Inability to legally buy cigarettes or alcohol could be another incentive to stay-in-school. Not a pretty one by any means, but they really do need to use everything they have). Children should not have free will or the right to choose to do whatever they want.
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Re: Who are you voting for come November?
« Reply #219 on: September 22, 2008, 10:29:41 PM »
Chapin, dude, you need to remember your developmental Psych.  The human mind is -never- completely developped outside of the incredibly minor part of the population that are amazing human beings like Ghandi (fuck what is the name of that theory of development.... Maslowe keeps coming to mind, but it isn't his Heirarchy of needs, I think it is a slightly related aside that you tend to learn around the same time but is from one of his peers).  18-25 range is the times about where people have consolidated the needs of laws and why you follow them.  It is actually one of the things society got fairly right.



Quote
Are you just a nihilist, or what?

--I no longer think you have to. I'm not really seeing much more than a cynic who relishes mocking others for their mistakes and provides nothing to help rectify them beyond bile.

That is funny, because I am a cynical Nihilist who mocks people for their mistakes and is only providing a pipe dream solution to real issues.
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Re: Who are you voting for come November?
« Reply #220 on: September 22, 2008, 10:37:12 PM »
Sure. But it's a lot funnier when you say it.

NotMiki

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Re: Who are you voting for come November?
« Reply #221 on: September 22, 2008, 11:46:27 PM »
s'pose I should answer my own question on abortion.  Whether or not women should be able to discriminate based on the sex of the fetus is an interesting question for me because it separates out most people's moral impulses ("hell no") from the full consequence of defending abortion based on privacy as opposed to some lesser measure.

I feel that discriminating based on the sex of the fetus is morally wrong, but I don't think that justifies taking away that option.  For the cultures that value boys over girls, it is with only a hint of schadenfreude that I say that the coming deficit of marriageable girls will raise their social value.
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Idun

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Re: Who are you voting for come November?
« Reply #222 on: September 23, 2008, 01:12:08 AM »
On an on track note, I just read about Palin and the buzz surrounding her having rape victims pay for their rape kits, when offices should offer all capabilities necessary to help solving the case. Also, she bans books.

This lady is wacko. If McCain died, at least we'd all be able to see Russia~

BaconForTheSoul

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Re: Who are you voting for come November?
« Reply #223 on: September 23, 2008, 01:58:02 AM »
Someone who uses drugs in their own home isn't hurting anyone.  There's plenty of funtioning alcoholics out there and there are plenty of funtioning drug users.  Forcing school apparently isn't working anyway, with dropouts rates in many cities above 50% now.  Might as well save the state money for kids who care.  And as long as I don't crash into anyone else, I should be able to go as fast as I want.  (The last one is a stretch I know.)  Either way, I believe abortion has consequences to society too.  One, people become whores, increasing STD rates.  (I'd have to find proof of this, but it has to be true.)  Two, awful presidents are elected simply because they don't like abortion.  Three, helps increase divorce rates.  (Which could be a good thing, who knows.)  Although, abortion does have positives like I said.  Crime/Poverty both dropped 18 years after we legalized it.  Now if we'd just start heartlessly executing all people who bring society down, we'd be good to go.

Edit: The age thing was more about drinking, smoking, voting, etc.  Who are we to tell 8 year olds that they cannot drink and smoke.  Don't try and tell me it's because they have undeveloped and immature minds because technically our minds aren't done maturing until we're around 26.  I believe we're restricting the free will and the right to choose of children.


In their own home is the key part with drugs. If you legalize it, you can't force myself to do it in their home (I'm generally pro-legalization on some drugs- Marijuana for cancers patients at the very least). There are plenty of functioning alcohols and drug users, but by the same token, there are plenty who aren't really functioning, or are functioning until they go overboard. I'm not anti-drug or alcohol by any mean, but generally restricting these things in some manner are good ideas. Yes, you can do them safety in your own home, but you can't force people to do them in their own home. Once you do it outside your home, it's something with the potential to effect everyone else.

If forcing school is keeping even a few kids in that might otherwise drop out, then it's a good thing. In fact, they should be erecting more barriers to try to keep kids in school, not removing them. Tighten up working requirements so that getting a job without a high school diploma or without being in high school is damn difficult. Don't let drop-out children be claimed on a parent's tax returns, or have it even count against them. They really should be doing whatever they possibly can within the limits of legality to stop this. Getting them to actually learn something is a whole different issue, but I'd personally just see make higher graduating requirements and keep those working restrictions in place no matter what age a person is.

Abortion probably doesn't help sluttiness rates, but the rise of teenage mothers, let alone teenage mothers with two children, shows that there are probably larger problems at play there than abortion. If people catch an STD and then still engage in reckless sexual practices though, I can't imagine the legality of abotion is really going to effect them much.

Minds may not be done maturing until they are 26, but that doesn't mean that an 8 year old should be given decision making powers. An 18 year old is still a lot closer to having a fully mature mind than an 8 year old. Sure, age isn't the best barometer of maturity given that there are 40 year olds who probably shouldn't be making their own decisions, but it's the only semi-accurate and realistic one that we have. (Alternately, higher penalties on stuff like this for high school dropouts? Inability to legally buy cigarettes or alcohol could be another incentive to stay-in-school. Not a pretty one by any means, but they really do need to use everything they have). Children should not have free will or the right to choose to do whatever they want.


I obviously agree with restrictions that are for our best interest.  The point I'm arguing is that people want restrictions in some parts of their life and not others, based solely on what helps them.  The government does this too.

A. You must wear seat belts because it protects you!!!
B. Smoke all you want though because we get lotsa money from cig companies!!!

As I said before, I just can't buy accept people whose only argument is that it's their body and they can do what they want.

superaielman

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Re: Who are you voting for come November?
« Reply #224 on: September 23, 2008, 01:59:23 AM »
On an on track note, I just read about Palin and the buzz surrounding her having rape victims pay for their rape kits, when offices should offer all capabilities necessary to help solving the case. Also, she bans books.

This lady is wacko. If McCain died, at least we'd all be able to see Russia~

The book ban thing is not true, at least the version floating around the net.

Warning: Malkin. I orginially saw this story in a Leonard Pitts column today, lemme go dig up that link.

http://michellemalkin.com/2008/09/06/the-bogus-sarah-palin-banned-books-list/

http://www.miamiherald.com/living/columnists/leonard-pitts/story/689470.html

Pitts has a couple of good stories about this.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2008, 02:03:37 AM by superaielman »
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