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Scar

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2600 on: March 29, 2016, 01:40:22 PM »
So this bvs movie is alluding to Lois lane being supes tether to the human world right?

Like, if she were to die, he'd go rogue, which is why batman was scared of him in the first place?

Is this superman based of the injustice version? I don't remember supes being so weak minded that the potential death of his loved ones could knock him over the deep end. He basically is always monitoring lane wherever she is on the planet. Crazy stalker. I guess his mom works in this role too, but he cares less about her so she isn't being watched 24/7 like lane is.

Also these dream sequences...
what's up with flash in batman's dream? I Get How He Can Time Travel,  But Now He Can Enter Someone's Subconscious? And wtf was he wearing?
« Last Edit: March 29, 2016, 01:43:20 PM by Scar »
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Captain K

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2601 on: March 29, 2016, 02:02:46 PM »
The dream sequences are horrible in general and one of the major reasons the movie is so confusing.

Hunter Sopko

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2602 on: March 30, 2016, 12:13:10 AM »
So this bvs movie is alluding to Lois lane being supes tether to the human world right?

Like, if she were to die, he'd go rogue, which is why batman was scared of him in the first place?

Is this superman based of the injustice version? I don't remember supes being so weak minded that the potential death of his loved ones could knock him over the deep end. He basically is always monitoring lane wherever she is on the planet. Crazy stalker. I guess his mom works in this role too, but he cares less about her so she isn't being watched 24/7 like lane is.

Actually, Superman does that... a lot. In every iteration of the character. Some call more attention to it than others, but he's ALWAYS keeping an eye out for his closest friends. It's why Jimmy Olsen/Lois/etc get kidnapped so often. People know it's one of Superman's buttons.

The weak-mindedness changes depending on source, but it's always been there. Golden and Silver Age Superman was always getting tricked into doing stuff- the naivety went with the pure-hearted do-gooder in him. More modern versions have him being pretty susceptible to mind-control and magic, one of the most famous instances being in Countdown to Infinite Crisis where Max Lord uses his psychic powers to make Superman go on a mass-destruction/killing spree. So honestly, Superman being tricked, manipulated, etc is pretty damn faithful.

I think what's going on a lot with this movie is that people have this amalgamation of Superman and Batman in their heads, and in putting it together pull the best traits from all versions of the characters. So any flaws, deviations from that source, regardless if it's actually been done, is an abomination. I agree it goes too far in some cases here, but it really feels this is one of the problems people have watching/accepting some interps of the characters.

EDIT: Yes. The dream sequences definitely needed to get cut down a ton.

Meeplelard

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2603 on: March 30, 2016, 12:20:46 AM »
The Batman dream with Flash was really just a cheap attempt to get Crisis on Infinite Earth's teased or pay homage to that or some such, since I seem to recall that very plot point was part of that story.  Could be mis-remembering, or they do that particular plot device more often than I expect since that's part of that character or some such; won't pretend to be an expert on him.
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The Duck

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2604 on: April 07, 2016, 11:24:10 PM »
10 Cloverfield Lane - Good thriller with great performances by Winstead and especially John Goodman. I don't think the ending worked for me, but most things up until that point did. I really like the way they built Winstead's character (the opening scene is very instructive about her personality and flaws) with good instances of characterization through action and with only a few hamfisted character moments. The refreshing thing about her is that people in movies who are trapped like this often act like idiots. Everything she does is fairly well considered, so she doesn't slip up because of incompetence which 99% of protagonists in these kind of thrillers fall prey to. The interpersonal relationships between Winstead and Goodman are pretty strong and the third dude was okay despite not really having much to do. The movie also plays with expectations and what characters actually know about each other and the situation in a compelling way. Worth a watch.


I think my biggest problems with the movie are to do with marketing. Like, I think there's a conflict here between trying to build a brand and making something effective and surprising. In several ways, I think the movie would have worked a lot better without the Cloverfield name attached to it and then some reveals in the story would be a lot more impactful. Some of the tension is in whether Goodman is delusional or actually right and here, I actually had no doubts that he was prepared for something real because of the Cloverfield name. Moreover, when Winstead drives away at the end and the Cloverfield Lane mailbox is shown, that could have been a really cool reveal! And when she's out of the bunker for the first time and sees aliens, I didn't have a big reaction other than that it had become a movie I wasn't as interested in anymore because I knew something of the sort was present because of the name. The thing is, I don't think the producers/execs/studio/whatever are necessarily wrong if they thought that the movie would never sell without the name, and it seems like they are building a Cloverfield brand here (something JJ Abrams has become very good at), with Cloverfield being some kind of overarching setting where these stories can occupy the same world. On the other hand, I do think that if they stealth released these things without the Cloverfield name and had several films that ended up being in the Cloverfield setting, that would be pretty cool, at least the first few times. It might also be unworkable due to the internet but it's something new that people haven't tried.

*the contrivance of her being able to make a hazmat suit because she was a costume designer is kinda dumb.
*I think things would have worked better if the movie ended ten minutes earlier where she first sees an alien or something. They do go for it but it's really goofy, like a molotov blowing up the alien thing? But I guess to complete the character's arc, she has to make the choice to help people since it is the first time she is not running away from things. I don't know, I don't think the parts when she's dealing with the aliens is that compelling.
*I think the part where they play charades is really interesting and it's a good instance of character building, although the setups are kind of absurd and overwritten (John Goodman literally cannot conceptualize Winstead as a woman, him screaming a bunch of clues like "HE'S ALWAYS WATCHING YOU" for Santa).
*I kind of miss John Goodman at the end.
*Goodman straight up executing the third dude is really jarring, really well done.
*When Goodman comes out clean shaven oh my god that is so creepy
« Last Edit: April 07, 2016, 11:53:54 PM by The Duck »

Captain K

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2605 on: April 11, 2016, 12:12:30 AM »
Zootopia:  Much better than the trailers.  Really good message about racial issues and it doesn't dumb it down for the kids.  Smartly written and lots of beautiful scenery.  The little details like the multiple doors on the buses are great.

Also, I may be a furry cause Officer Hops was hot in that police jumpsuit.  Ha ha bunny.  jumpsuit.

My biggest gripe about the movie is that Gazelle was not played by Adele.  If you're going to use Shakira give her a name that sounds like Shakira.  Like Sheepkira or something.

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« Reply #2606 on: April 11, 2016, 12:42:29 AM »
Gourryspoils
I thought the third guy was a red herring myself. Like I genuinely thought it was all about him being a bastard for about 5 minutes right before he got shot.

I agree with the Cloverfield franchise bit, but... I was kinda doubting there were aliens midway through the film anyway? I think the alien being real thing is something that is completely obvious before and after seeing the movie, but in the middle I was not completely sure. Abrams said that there was no plot connection to the other Cloverfield movie, which is a complete lie but I'm glad he did it anyway.


Also, I may be a furry
Yes



I've been thinking about how the Boondock Saints became a cult classic (they're in Broforce) even though the movie is completely appalling and has 0 sense of irony.
I think that maybe this is kind of a MRA sensibility thing? The more I think about it, the more it is the MRA official unofficial movie.
I'd need to rewatch it to confirm, but nope I'm not doing it.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2016, 12:44:49 AM by Fenrir »

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2607 on: April 11, 2016, 01:13:38 AM »
Boondock Saints has zero sense of irony because its writer/director genuinely thought he was making a serious statement about the real social value of vigilante justice.

I kind of hate that movie.

superaielman

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2608 on: April 11, 2016, 01:48:06 AM »
Boondock Saints- I'm not sure if this is a good or bad movie. It's so over the top that it's almost a parody, except that the director takes himself pretty seriously.  It was reasonably entertaining though.

Boondock Saints 2- This was just bad.  The female detective wasn't a match for her counterpart in the first film, and some of the humor mixed in was pretty juvenile. I still enjoyed it well enough though.

The Hangover- OK is so Stu. So very Stu. It's more or less a documentary of what would happen if Elfboy, VSM, myself, and OK went to Vegas for a weekend. 

Boondock saints is entertaining enough but it's a bad film on a bunch of levels. The second film is uh. Yeah. Somehow much worse.
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The Duck

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2609 on: April 11, 2016, 04:23:19 AM »
I find Boondock Saints actively repulsive because of what Cid is talking about (there's a documentary called Overnight about the director, who is completely insufferable). The ending montage with the fake interviews was also really gross and gives the impression that the creators believe this shit. The THERE WAS A FIREFIGHT scene was so fucking stupid that it actually made me angry. Not sure if it's necessarily an MRAs movie but it plays to this sense of amorality/nihilism that 15 year old dudes have (it was the favorite movie of a bunch of guys I knew in high school and college, some of whom got tattoos from the film and said latin nonsense from the film like it was a thing to do in social situations). A lot of people grow out of it, some people don't, kind of like with objectivism.

Even as something not to be taken seriously, the action is really terrible.

Cloverfield text for ants

I do think the movie generally does a good job of keeping you questioning a lot of things, like character motives and whether certain people are crazy. John Goodman is delusional and also correct! I didn't know whether there were aliens or monsters specifically, but I did get the feeling that something was going on outside. I think another part of where the marketing failed me here is that one of the trailers does show them outside and with the exploding molotov thing, so that plus the Cloverfield marketing really made me think that there would be a point during the movie that occurred outside the bunker where actual stuff with monsters or some shit was going down. I still think calling this something else and then having the mailbox reveal would be great, but it's kind of too late now. They can still do a stealth release of a movie in this world but I think it would have had the greatest impact here.

Fenrir

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« Reply #2610 on: April 11, 2016, 08:24:07 PM »
I remember the action being dudes with black shirts and black trousers and black trenchcoats and black sunglasses shooting their dual black guns in slow motion and missing with every single shot.

The vigilante religious bits were pretty awful and I don't remember the trans stuff being very progressive. To say the least

dunie

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« Reply #2611 on: May 01, 2016, 08:41:00 PM »
Friend and I saw the Akira at the Alamo Draughthouse. The invitation prior was a bit interesting though. All I can remember was that the movie was gross, insane, and traumatizing. "Would you like to go see Akira?" was pretty weird to hear in this case. We went anyway, and it was great.

The Alamo used LED lights throughout the movie, so all the crazy chaotic 80s-laden scenes had rays that matched it. Remember the red room scene? Imagine a red room theater.

I first saw this film with my mom, and she loved it. Being like, 10 or something and seeing it at home, I didn't pick up on all the nuclear symbolism, etc.

Also, Kaneda is a motherfucking boss.

DjinnAndTonic

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2612 on: May 01, 2016, 10:51:33 PM »
Captain America: Civil War
Apparently this is out earlier in Japan than in America. I find that hilarious.

Feels more like Avengers 3 than a Captain America movie. That said, holy shit I fuckin loved it. Especially hilarious since it and Batman v Superman are playing concurrently in the same theatres here in Japan.

And Civil War is just kicking its ass so very hard.

There are stingers at the end, they are very cool, please don't miss them when you go to this movie.

The female characters in the movie don't get to do a whole lot, so expect a huge shitstorm about that from both sides of the usual sources. In fairness, there are a TON of characters in this movie and not all of them get huge amounts of screentime apart from the main 3 (Cap, Bucky, Tony) that the movie is focused on.

The plot is pretty good, and despite the obvious complaints I can already see about people talking about who is or isn't 'out of character', the main arguments on both sides of the 'civil war' at least seem to make sense without thinking too deeply on it - moreso than standard comic logic for superhero infighting at least!

Anyway, I am pretty hype for the Black Panther movie now! (And Deadpool when that finally gets a Japanese release...)

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« Reply #2613 on: May 02, 2016, 12:13:30 AM »
Not that I care about superhero movies, but Marvel has had arguably the most popular actress in the world ready for like 4 years, and they haven't made a Black Widow movie yet because, probably, women

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« Reply #2614 on: May 02, 2016, 12:35:20 AM »
The use of Scarlett Johansson in popular media is really strange. She's rarely playing humans nowadays, she's either an alien, a weird god because she can use 100% of her brain, a cyborg, or a phone. People seem to be obsessed with de-humanizing her (and there was that dude that made a robot that looks just like her). I'm not sure why that is.

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« Reply #2615 on: May 02, 2016, 01:11:33 AM »
I imagine that's the way she wants it.  I am confident that if she announced her intentions to star in a vanilla rom/com that the studios would oblige.
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Re: Movies
« Reply #2616 on: May 02, 2016, 02:31:45 AM »
welcome scarlett to the plight

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« Reply #2617 on: May 03, 2016, 09:05:35 PM »
The use of Scarlett Johansson in popular media is really strange. She's rarely playing humans nowadays, she's either an alien, a weird god because she can use 100% of her brain, a cyborg, or a phone. People seem to be obsessed with de-humanizing her (and there was that dude that made a robot that looks just like her). I'm not sure why that is.

Snake, too.

Jungle Book was a solid remake.

The Duck

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« Reply #2618 on: May 04, 2016, 12:55:12 AM »
Jungle Book was visually very good. I saw it in 3D IMAX by recommendation and the colors seemed slightly washed out, but the effects were impressive and perhaps the best part was animal emoting. It doesn't do anything special in terms of plotting or character beats (Elba makes a very menacing Shere Khan though and Bill Murray is fun as Baloo), but the visuals make it worth a watch.

Weirdly, there is another Jungle Book in the works by Warner Bros with Andy Serkis. No doubt it will be darker and grittier.

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2619 on: May 06, 2016, 08:43:50 AM »
Civil War was real fuckin good.  There's a LOT of characters and moving parts but I never felt like you had a Hawkeye in Avengers situation where a character was being drastically underserved by their role.  The new additions really worked out well and overall I'm very pleased to see what the directors do for the next Avengers films now that they're basically in the drivers seat for Marvel.

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« Reply #2620 on: May 06, 2016, 09:41:21 AM »
Seriously, Black Panther may be a fresh face for this film, but he's one of the driving forces of the flick.  The big showdown at the airport is probably my favourite big Marvel brawl now because they managed to mix action and humour in a high-octane blend.  And I think this may have been the best MCU villain yet.  I mean, one of the folks I saw it with really didn't like Zemo, and I can see his points.  But for me, the stuff that makes Zemo unusual were selling points instead of problems.

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« Reply #2621 on: May 07, 2016, 01:46:27 AM »
Civil War:  Zemo was interesting but got very little screentime.  That actually works because the movie is about making the heroes the villains.  Action scenes were absolutely amazing.  Watching Captain America fight is so beautiful.  He's not doing martial arts or anything, he's just being a guy with better strength and reflexes than anyone else and doing whatever he needs to do at any point in a fight.  Car chase scene made me motion sick but it was still very impressive.

Best representation of Spider-Man in a film, and he still gets upstaged by fucking Ant-Man.  Actually I'm sorely tempted to make that {size=3000pt} but that would be a spoiler.

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« Reply #2622 on: May 07, 2016, 02:03:34 AM »
Civil War: I think I'm officially burnt out on Marvel movies. Despite liking the movie, I can't really express much enthusiasm about it. Some fun parts, Spiderman was used well. Paul Rudd channeled Bobby Newport as Ant-Man. But overall... just... wow. Apathy despite it all.

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« Reply #2623 on: May 08, 2016, 02:20:13 PM »
Civil War: The movie claims to be Captain America: Civil War.  What the real title should be is Avengers 2.5: Civil War Starring Captain America.  Make no mistake, he's the main character and it's mostly his story, but the story feels very ensemble like at times as well since it handles so many character, with Cap's story being the most important.

That said, I feel like in some respects this is what Avengers 2 should have been.  I liked Age of Ultron fine, but it was very much just "More of the same" as the first (if even better in some respects!)  This very clearly wasn't "more of the same" but still was the Avengers doing stuff, with Thor and Hulk swapped out for Spider-Man and Black Panther.

It's really good regardless.  I think the best description was "it's the Antithesis to Batman v Superman."  It has to handle way more characters, yet manages to give everyone their fair share, even Spider-Man and Antman who have only 2 scenes managed to be work really well in their roles, and the reasons for why they're fighting actually feel justified.  It's not just "I hate this guy, I'm going to beat him up because I'M BATMAN!" vs. "LUTHOR IS BLACK MAILING ME :(."  It's a take on Security vs. Freedom, which is more important?

While I do think the movie did a good job not vilifying one side for the sake of glorifying the other, it still feels a little Pro-Cap.  It has more of a "Captain America is right, but Iron Man is not wrong" vibe rather than "CHOOSE YOUR SIDE!"  It's more of a "Both have good points, and both are clearly good guys, but Captain America is slightly better."
I also appreciate how the climax DIDN'T try to one up the Airport scene, going for more emotional investment rather than "MORE EXPLOSIONS AND DESTRUCTION!"  It's you don't see often because so many people think climax = BIGGER AND BETTER THAN EVERYTHING BEFORE!  This movie goes more "or we could make it just a more personal, emotional conflict, and the fight is more just a representation of that."


Lastly, I think a big thing this movie had on BvS?  We know most of the characters (basically everyone but the villain, Black Panther and this universe's Spider-Man) already, so we didn't have to explain a lot of why or backstory.  It's more "oh, Tony WOULD act that way" and what not.  Black Widow uncharacteristically siding with Tony?  The movie covers that in 2 lines, and the audience immediately knows what they're talking about because yeah, that doesn't sound like Widow!  In BvS, we knew like 2 characters (Superman and Lois Lane), so there's a lot of establishing, and we can't really say "Batman WOULD act that way in this universe."  This is why Civil War could succeed with 10 characters where BvS didn't with 2.  Jumping in with a big super hero vs. super hero brawl really needs established characters; Civil War had the 13 MCU movies to work with (GRANTED: GotG, and both Thor movies are completely meaningless here), BvS had only Man of Steel.

So yeah, great stuff etc.
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Re: Movies
« Reply #2624 on: May 10, 2016, 09:20:13 PM »
Captain America: WAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRR- Well of course it's good.  Black Panther and Spider-Man stand out.  The final battle is brutal, amazing, and in a lot of ways is probably the only time the film really digs into the pro-accords argument; these people are TERRIFYING under the right conditions and regular people have no hope against them.

But actually I wanted to talk about the Accords, both because it's that time of the annual cycle and because the movie doesn't expound on it in a very straightforward way.

Okay, so as written, this is what we're told about the Sokovia Accords:
- signed by ~117 nations
- Overseen by 'The UN'
- Grants overseers sole control over how, when, and where to deploy the Avengers

Now the argument Cap gives in-movie is "we don't know what their agendas might be", an oblique allusion to how deeply and highly Hydra had infiltrated the government, SHIELD, etc.  Which sounds insane but hey, Cap's been keyed to paranoia pretty hard over the last couple movies, not the most objective evaluation.  But it does brush against the fact that, as presented, the whole thing is basically built for abuse.  The Avengers could be deployed to destabilize unpopular regimes while creating plausible deniability and letting individual nations was their hands of deploying their own troops.  Or the unscrupulous dealings of member states could operate with impunity.

Now, the other argument presented along those lines boils down to government agility; that is, the Avengers need to be able to deploy quickly, and being forced to wait for overseer clearance could be a critical and costly delay.  This is valid, but leads to two branch possibilities.  Both involve a fundamental misunderstanding of what the Avengers are.

1. All 117 signatory nations have representatives who convene to sign off on Avenger deployment.

I don't think this is what they're actually going for, even though it's the natural reading of the dialog, because it's abysmally stupid.  This assumes the Avengers are a non-governmental military force, where operations are planned events based on outside intelligence.  While they have done this, since they have to step in for SHIELD now, it completely ignores their function as emergency response to extra-normal threats.  So more likely

2. Signatory nations will (or have) formed some smaller selection to act as governing council over the Avengers

For purposes of agility, small groups have to be formed.  It also vastly increases the potential for abuse as outlined above.  It also gives them the agility to perform much more minute oversight of the team, which might hinder their third function as a global intelligence force, but that's minor. 
It's also not all that different from how SHIELD and the World Security Council worked.  I mean, by evidence presented in the films, the WSC were basically appointees from several nations: the US, Brittain, China, and India, with 2 americans and 6 total members.  One almost assumes that the remaining member was French and Russia just didn't want to get involved so America got an extra rep because THAT would basically be the five members of the UN Security Council plus India... which makes sense.  And may even have been the original intent behind the group, but they seem to now suggest that while they were appointed in similar fashion, they were non-public and had low accountability to their parent nations.  So, same concept, but without the middle man spy agency and slightly more public.
That seems functional, but I keep remembering that the WSC unanimously voted to nuke Manhattan four years ago, despite assets on the ground having the matter relatively contained and their vote to do so coming some half an hour after the incident began.

of course, there's a third option.

3.  One of the previous is true, except actually the Avengers just answer to Everett Ross and he has to go between them and one of the above.

I suspect this is the de facto norm for the MCU going forward honestly, but I also suspect it wasn't the original intent of the Accords.

So independently of any arguments about individual liberty versus collective good or whatever, the Sokovia Accords as presented are just not a very good or effective treaty.  The fact that the ink isn't even dry and they make a monumentally abusive decision* suggest this is actually intended to be how the law reads for the audience.

Y'know, I imagine the original Civil War was meant to be some sort of commentary on the PATRIOT Act or other such reactionary law passed in the fear-driven fever nightmares of 9/11.  Do I respect the Russos enough to think they have tuned that plot to much more accurately make the statement "we can't let fear prevent us from making rational evaluations of laws"?  I dunno.  But do I think there are a lot of similarities in these two acts which seem incapable of serving their stated purpose but are AWESOME at opening new opportunities for abuse by the influential and well connected?  Definitely.



*I mean, in the modern world an order of "do not attempt to arrest, shoot to kill" for a dangerous terrorist is, while terrible, perhaps ultimately to the good.  In a universe where brainwashing is effective, long-lasting, programmable, and public knowledge, and the terrorist involved is a known victim of this brainwashing, this is murder.  What, Russia afraid he knows some damning state secret?
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