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Author Topic: Movies  (Read 308587 times)

Sierra

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2875 on: March 22, 2017, 01:07:02 AM »
Yeah, basically. I expect an unsalvageable script for a plot that lifts some of the more notable plot points of the source material, in a narrative that is fundamentally stock Hollywood thriller at heart without really recognizing the unique value of the source material. I expect a mess but maybe, if we're lucky, a pretty mess.

Hunter Sopko

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2876 on: March 22, 2017, 01:10:01 AM »
Which I sort of don't get. People ate up shit like Inception. Did they really not think that they couldn't attempt the source material? Or was it a fear of too strictly adapting it?

NotMiki

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2877 on: March 22, 2017, 02:43:21 AM »
Time will tell.  A movie like GitS I put very little stock in previews and the like - whether the film itself is adventurous, the previews are gonna go broad appeal to get butts in seats.
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MasterLemon

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2878 on: March 22, 2017, 11:41:36 AM »
I'm currently rewatching Drive. A film I was required to watch during my media class. I remember really liking the film when I first watched it and I still really like it now. The action scenes are well shot and don't conform to the low hanging fruits, such as shaky cam and long shots. The acting is also very good, particularly from Ryan Gosling and Albert Brooks. Ryan Gosling is able to convey the tranquil fury of the driver effectively, and Albert Brooks' charisma allows him to steal the show in any scene he's in.

Oh yeah, did I mention the soundtrack in this film was Godlike?
« Last Edit: March 22, 2017, 12:03:51 PM by MasterLemon »

Fenrir

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2879 on: March 22, 2017, 04:32:11 PM »
New Ghost in the shell seems to want to draw from multiple older GitS sources while still making sense as one film.

Ghost in the shell: a stand-alone? Complex!

Fenrir

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2880 on: March 22, 2017, 04:32:55 PM »
My all-time worst post

NotMiki

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2881 on: March 22, 2017, 04:41:16 PM »
The first step is to recognize you have a problem
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The Duck

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2882 on: March 22, 2017, 09:33:42 PM »
My all-time worst post
I hate this.

Hunter Sopko

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2883 on: March 23, 2017, 01:49:13 AM »
Ghost in the shell: a stand-alone? Complex!

No, money down!

Luther Lansfeld

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2884 on: March 23, 2017, 06:48:22 AM »
I went and saw the new Beauty and the Beast. Very beautiful movie with good acting and nice re-renditions of the old songs. I was skeptical about Luke Evans as Gaston but he works shockingly well, even if Gaston is somehow more evil than ever. I was actually grinning like a stupid fool during some of the ~love~ scenes, and the Gaston song just hit me with such a wave of happiness. I love that there is a controversy about the gayness of a man who sings a song about the greatness and amazingness of another man.
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Cmdr_King

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2885 on: March 23, 2017, 10:29:24 PM »
The only correct reaction to all that is "uh, which version of the movie did you watch that LeFou wasn't ALWAYS gay?"
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superaielman

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2886 on: March 24, 2017, 01:51:09 AM »
Re Children of Men: Ahh yeah, fair. Missed that. And yeah I saw it a few months back, it was absolutely fantastic and hard to watch.
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Sierra

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2887 on: March 24, 2017, 02:36:30 AM »
Time will tell.  A movie like GitS I put very little stock in previews and the like - whether the film itself is adventurous, the previews are gonna go broad appeal to get butts in seats.

I rarely even watch trailers these days. My misgivings about movies tend to derive more from looking at the director's and/or writer's resume on IMDB and going "Uhhh nope," which is principally where my skepticism comes from in this case. To Soppy's question: sometimes I think it's not so much a wary studio being afraid of alienating an audience with a too-faithful adaptation, or an unsympathetic studio deliberately dumbing it down, so much as it is just a very poor combination of director and story. Sometimes you get a showrunner who just does not grok the heart of the material he's been asked to adapt and does a hamfisted job of bludgeoning it into a more recognizable shape.

Anyway mostly posting here instead of anime topic because this one's vaguely on said topic already, so: currently rewatching 2nd Gig and Steve Bannon literally is just Goda without the cheeky I'm a Virgin shirt.

The Duck

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2888 on: March 30, 2017, 01:42:55 AM »
I recommend Raw. Saw it at an early screening with the director. Cool stuff.
I just saw this. It's interesting but I didn't think it was great. I think maybe it would be different if I saw it with a theater full of the squeamish. This thing is filled with subtext though, and it's kind of nuts that this is a debut. There's a ton of talent out there right now.

Fenrir

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2889 on: March 30, 2017, 10:05:53 AM »
Oh that's too bad. I was really impressed by the cinematography and leading actress.
I couldn't handle the finger scene but the rest was fine


My girlfriend loves Jarmush movies so I think that's it, I'll never love anyone else but her. We watched Ghost Dog / Broken Flowers / Only lovers left alive / Coffee and Cigarettes recently plus Paterson in December

The Duck

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2890 on: March 30, 2017, 11:49:51 AM »
Oh that's too bad. I was really impressed by the cinematography and leading actress.
I couldn't handle the finger scene but the rest was fine


My girlfriend loves Jarmush movies so I think that's it, I'll never love anyone else but her. We watched Ghost Dog / Broken Flowers / Only lovers left alive / Coffee and Cigarettes recently plus Paterson in December
Oh, no, I don't think it's bad or anything but lots of the reviews were saying it's amazing and I didn't think it was that. It's worth seeing for certain people and it is technically strong (again it's impressive that this is her first film), it's just that I didn't like it as much as most critics/film twitter did.

Ha, I think you named all of the Jarmusch films I actually like. I really can't stand some of his older stuff but I think what he's been doing recently has been his best (Only Lover Left Alive is excellent).

Also these days I am pretty satisfied if my partner is willing to watch movies with subtitles since that means I can infect her with all my awful recommendations.

Hunter Sopko

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2891 on: April 01, 2017, 07:22:54 PM »
Ghost in the Shell- Eh. Not very good but not awful. It alternates between flowing pretty well (most of the middle) and being pretty awkward (the beginning). The ScarJo casting never really bothered me for a couple reasons. The real problems with whitewashing are in the REST of the movie, with the characters who are you know, supposed to be full blooded human and not just a brain transplanted into another body (And let's not get into the dumb cultural appropriation arguments given that the entire concept of cyberpunk can, you know, be attributed to William Gibson). The problem with the movie is that it's really shallow. Instead of digesting and simplifying the themes, it just mostly goes for the easy out action movie route and bluntly tries to bull-rush through the anything resembling the issues the source material was trying to bring up. In the end, it just moves from Point A to Point B and until maybe just past halfway there's no reason for you to care at all.

The script is just awful. And the one thing that I think it does well is probably 100% unintentional. There was a whole thing about the trailers where people noticed they kept calling her "Major" and not "the Major". This ended up not being as much of a problem in the movie, but there are still instances where people call her Major (without the The) as if it were her name, and considering it, it actually really works in terms of taking away her personhood by referring to her rank as a name rather than a name. I guess it still works with the The in there, but eh. 

ScarJo's body language and speech cadence really is successful at hitting that uncanny valley of not quite human (or at least, someone not quite used to their body), but this is never, ever brought up in the movie at all. Even a throwaway "The speech and movement issues will go away in time" or something would've really helped.

It  goes pretty all in making it an original story using the Oshii movie’s setpieces as flagstones, with a hodgepodge of other stuff. The SAC team is mostly there with an okay movie-original character. Mixing the geisha sequence from the first ep of SAC with the opening of the movie worked .  The burning sequence from SAC 1st Season is there for little to no reason. Kuze gets grafted onto the Puppetmaster to make for a more Hollywood-esqe type plot. Some of the stuff they kept in was also weird. The diving sequence they kept in, and was nice actually, but there’s no weight to it. It’s… mostly internally consistent, but just kind of a mess too, if that makes sense.

The visuals were fortunately on point. But it made me realize something: This movie should've been made 10 years ago. One of the reasons the original GitS was a thing is because the action sequences weren't something you could do with live action at the time. And while a couple of the ones here are shot for shot (the river fight is still impressive, I'll admit), they just don't have that Oomph they should have because the effects are old hat at this point.

Beat Takeshi being the only one speaking Japanese is really fucking weird.

As for the twist... So they sort of lampshade the whole whitewashing thing with the Major by having her actual past be: She was a Japanese teenager named Motoko Kusanagi who ran away from home, and Hanka electronics was collecting runaways to experiment on. They gave her a completely different appearance, altered her memory to better camouflage what they've been doing. Which works in and of itself. Motoko Kusanagi isn't even her real name in the manga, but one given to her after the cyberization. It's officially unknown what her original name, race, or even gender was. Not sure if they did it in response to the controversy or what, but yeah. The real problems are still with the other characters in the movie. I guess that just goes to show how far it actually deviates. Same spirit, I guess. Just… not as good.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2017, 07:38:33 PM by Hunter Sopko »

dunie

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2892 on: April 01, 2017, 09:02:24 PM »
Just saw Deirdre and Laney Rob a Train - it was a pretty great movie. 4/5.

Cotigo

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2893 on: April 02, 2017, 08:25:13 PM »
So they sort of lampshade the whole whitewashing thing with the Major by having her actual past be: She was a Japanese teenager named Motoko Kusanagi who ran away from home, and Hanka electronics was collecting runaways to experiment on. They gave her a completely different appearance, altered her memory to better camouflage what they've been doing. Which works in and of itself. Motoko Kusanagi isn't even her real name in the manga, but one given to her after the cyberization. It's officially unknown what her original name, race, or even gender was. Not sure if they did it in response to the controversy or what, but yeah. The real problems are still with the other characters in the movie.

lol what

their response to the white washing controversy was to take it as a challenge. Just fuckin' wow

NotMiki

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2894 on: April 03, 2017, 12:47:20 AM »
I wonder if they understand that Motoko Kusanagi is a name that is obviously fake, that no real Japanese person would have.  Actually no I don't.

(according to the footnotes for the original US edition of the manga, anyway. not like I would know.)
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The Duck

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2895 on: April 03, 2017, 04:14:20 AM »
That twist sounds fucking terrible.

dunie

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2896 on: April 03, 2017, 10:27:51 AM »
The ScarJo casting never really bothered me for a couple reasons. The real problems with whitewashing are in the REST of the movie, with the characters who are you know, supposed to be full blooded human and not just a brain transplanted into another body (And let's not get into the dumb cultural appropriation arguments given that the entire concept of cyberpunk can, you know, be attributed to William Gibson).

I'm more familiar with arguments about racism, which I find relevant, than cultural appropriation. What are folks saying?

Re: Her Voice- I am far from a ScarJo fan. In complete honesty I'm tired of her as the go-to for nerdy action, which uses her for sexual appeal and empties her characters of dimensionality. But I can imagine she'd have enough practice thinking about robots/AI with Her, which was a good movie for lots of reasons.

Grefter

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2897 on: April 03, 2017, 12:03:33 PM »
So I haven't seen it so it doesn't handle it, but the original anime is very very much about post WW2 Japanese tech boom and the social response to it.  So going into it there was a lot of concern that it would be westernized and kind of kill the central theme about it and just make it cool shootbangs.  Which can be cool and you can do in cyberpunk, but why use the license for it other than gross commercialism (I mean, ofc).

And Sopko, on the line that Cyberpunk is Gibson and a line of thought on that being appropriated?   Eh (though this might not be what was meant?).   If you were going down that line I am not sure of which direction I would most want to chase down hardest, forward or backwards.  If GitS riffs on a western thing and does it on its own thing with it, I don't see how "taking it back" or what would more feel like "doing Cyberpunk ROGHT" is particularly good.  But really Neuromancer starts in Japan for a reason, Gibson was kind of a weeb before anime made it cool.  Cyberpunk has an external view on the tech boom of Japan as outsiders holding up this Japanese exceptionalism and technophelia are hand in hand there.  GitS is very much a reaction to that as well.

Which on reflection the latter might have been what you are alluding too.

Edit oh yeah I came here to post about a movie everyone else has seen

Logan - A Western told through the lens of a modern Super Hero movie, that is based on a comic book movie, that directly quotes old westerns thematically and literally.  Instead of the good guy wearing a white hat and the bad guy wearing a black hat, the good guy wears a white singlet and the bad guy wears a black one.

It was good, I had fun and I got to watch Patrick Stewart swear like a king.

Edit edit - I am a garbage person and forgot to credit how good Laura was.  Holy shit like, start to finish, everything about that was good.  Acting, scripting, choreography.   Eeeevvvveeeeryyyythiiiiing.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2017, 12:15:13 PM by Grefter »
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Sierra

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2898 on: April 03, 2017, 11:13:29 PM »
So they sort of lampshade the whole whitewashing thing with the Major by having her actual past be: She was a Japanese teenager named Motoko Kusanagi who ran away from home, and Hanka electronics was collecting runaways to experiment on. They gave her a completely different appearance, altered her memory to better camouflage what they've been doing. Which works in and of itself. Motoko Kusanagi isn't even her real name in the manga, but one given to her after the cyberization. It's officially unknown what her original name, race, or even gender was. Not sure if they did it in response to the controversy or what, but yeah. The real problems are still with the other characters in the movie.

lol what

their response to the white washing controversy was to take it as a challenge. Just fuckin' wow

I was genuinely amused, though not necessarily for reasons the filmmakers might've desired. That said, I think it's premature to assume it was done as reaction to controversy without statement from the writers supporting that. Given how central a plot point the amnesia is, I suspect something along these lines was always the plan. Which is part of of the problem with the main plot: animated GitS got plenty of mileage out of presenting its cast with subtler reasons to ask questions about where the edge of humanity bleeds into something else, but there's no room for suggestion and doubt with the Chekhov's gun of amnesia hanging overhead, waiting to be resolved in procedurally obvious Hollywood fashion. Where does the newborn go from here? Nowhere, there's nothing left to explore.

I'd agree "shallow" is an apt descriptor for the movie in general. It looks great, and obviously a lot of effort went into the visualization of this future, but little attempt was made to understand it. Scenes and characters from other renditions of GitS are mashed together without any real thematic coherence. The only moments that felt like they had any dramatic weight to me were "We never needed your consent" and the bit with the mom. A good actor can only do so much with a poor script. GitS is material that needs an auteur to succeed and we got director-for-hire work. There's negligible investment in the themes or psychology that could make it feel like GitS in more than name. It wasn't an abomination or anything, I just walked out concluding that it was an okay thing to stare at for a couple hours but one which failed to engage me critically on levels much deeper than coolly assessing what adaptation choices were made of material very familiar to me.

None of this is helped by the fact that the villain is such a blank. What's your actual long-term plan here, guy? I question the practicality of your open air office.

But it made me realize something: This movie should've been made 10 years ago.

I was struck by this sentiment for a different reason: this isn't the kind of future that Hollywood invests in anymore (perhaps with good reason, considering box office returns). It's a very busy future, visually. While there's certainly a dystopian aspect to it, it's also at least a future in which humanity kept on going bigger: more outrageous technology and fashions, grand glass cities, etc. This no longer seems to be the viewing preference of American audiences (unless it's tied to venerable recognized properties like Star Trek or Star Wars). We now prefer more immediately recognizable, day-after-tomorrow dystopias, grim and grimy places all too easy to believe in given the course of current events. We no longer possess the vision or optimism to entertain anything more, and so we careen helplessly towards exactly that fate.

(I loved Logan too but man am I getting tired of settings where everything is just bleak shit for everybody.)

Grefter

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Re: Movies
« Reply #2899 on: April 04, 2017, 12:16:01 AM »
Without digging to deep into "modern day is our dystopia", well I think there is a reason for it right Ciddy?  You mostly write dystopia about the future you see coming more than the one from before (unless you are doing retro futurism ala Fallout, which still ends up being thematically about modern problems).

80s dystopian stuff wasn't like more optimistic, just more bombastic because the technological progress was so much more pronounced.  Technology is super impressive when Moore's law is like literally visibly taking place.  Rampant corporate greed was finally hitting full swing with your General Motors/Dunlap stuff or Reaganism and the birth of Neo-liberalism.

Compare it to now and a lot of those things have been chugging along for 20/30 years and society didn't collapse, we don't live in corporate owned Arcologies either as rich owners or middle class indentured servants, we don't live in a surveillance state where you get arrested for what people predict will be the crime you commit. 

So what is the running theme for the modern dystopia?  Everything pretty much just keeps going as is, nothing hanged and something key to society functioning and progressing completely breaks down.

Trying to think of the modern utopian equivalent and not heaps comes to mind.  Is it your stuff like The Martian?  Is it dumb super hero movies where tits and explosions saves the day from fairly unproblematic villains?  Do I seriously. It watch enough cinema to know what the cultural Zeitgeist is?  Definitely that last one.

Wsit - note the examples given for what we don't have in modern society that is actually in 80s near future dystopias were deliberately picked to be what they are.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2017, 12:18:18 AM by Grefter »
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