General Mafia discussion topic

[Shale]

Because there probably should be one.

Reminder to players still active in the NR Mafia game: That topic is still running on the old boards, here.

[Strago]

Hmm. So, El Cid. When do you think you'll be starting up Discworld?

[Luther Lansfeld]

Discworld is a book series?

[Shale]

I have to admit, I'm more impressed that you managed to spend this long talking with Cid and Hal without knowing that than I am horrified that you don't.

(Yes, it's a book series. 36 installments of pure awesome, most in no particular order.)

[VySaika]

ah, thanks for the link to the old topic, Shale. After the new forum came up, I didn't know how to get back to the old one. >_<

[Kilgamayan]

You can just change the URL you're using from http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php to http://www.rpgdl.com/forum/index.php if you wish to pop back into the old forums.

[Cmdr_King]

I imagine El Cid will post up his signup sheet as soon as he gets on and sees the games on the old board are done.  Well, no, NR is ongoing but in lylo, so this is the time for signups.   Acutally, whoever's next on the small game list should get those signups too.

Also, I'm shocked no one's badgered Ciato into reading Discworld.  It's not nearly as long as WoT AND reads very fast.  Especially because of the no chapters format (this maddens me, I always stop at chapters normally so not having them means I can't pick where to stop and read half the book in a sitting >.>)

[Luther Lansfeld]

I think I've been badgered into it before, but I have a bad memory.

[Sierra]

Note to self: Badger Ciato into reading Discworld books.

Note to Ciato: Don't listen to foolish elves regarding Pratchett. They lack the requisite sense of humor to have a reliable opinion on the subject.

Anyway, I'll have a sign-up topic up in a few minutes.

[Yakumo]

*makes a half-hearted attempt to remind people that the NR Mafia game is actually still supposed to be in progress, despite the fact that I've made the only post in about 14 hours. -_-*

[VySaika]

*makes a half-hearted attempt to remind people that the NR Mafia game is actually still supposed to be in progress, despite the fact that I've made the only post in about 14 hours. -_-*

*nods* If there hasn't been any more activity by the time I wake up in the morning, I'm imposing a time limit, potential LYLO or no. Don't like to do that, but...it really seems that people have lost most interest in NR mafia, and I don't want it to just sit there.

[Shale]

Start modkilling for inactivity and I'll bet you get some people perking up.

[Luther Lansfeld]

Doooooooooo it. You know Shale and I would be livening the place up if we were there.

[Otter]

##VOTE: Strago

One early post, been lurking since then, and it's Day 1.

[Carthrat]

I'd vote you if this is a real game, Otter. The bad jokes never stop.

If any of the more experienced people would care to do so, I think it would be a neat idea if someone threw up a brief list of, say, Things Not To Do when modding a mafia game. We have a lot of would-be mods and we've seen some dodgy games get run already (my own included). You can help!

[Smodge13]

Tips for Newbie players would also be useful, look at Eviltom and myself in the Tsukihime game, to a beginner the suggestion Tom made sounds like a good idea, however to the more experienced it = lynch.

Some things on what not to do would be very useful.

[Ranmilia]

Things to do as a mod:

- During setup, consider how you want your game to turn out in general.  Do you want to focus on the social game of hunting scum and misdirecting town?  Or do you want to make a role-heavy puzzle, or just run with some large scale crazy gimmick?  Have a clear goal for the way the game should play out and design your role setup with that goal in mind.

- After the general, consider the specifics.  Make sure that you yourself are familiar with what every single role in your setup can do.  Think about what they will or may do and what that's going to mean for the town.  Especially think about the interplay of multiple roles.  I could give specific examples all day - for the classic one, giving town both a standard doctor and a sane cop is brokenly powerful, without some sort of severe drawback or scum powers that can counter them.  Remember that town players will tend to try to exploit their individual roles to the max as fast as possible, and scum can potentially oversee a game and direct all of their powers towards an end.  Power roles are like spices, a pinch can perk up and flavor a game, but they're all too easy to overdo.

- Some big things to watch out for are:  How many roles are there altogether?  What roles or combinations can clear townies?  What can find scum 100%?  What's going to cause nearly assured mislynches?  How can your players abuse any custom roles you may have cooked up?  How many kills are there going to be per day/night, and who controls them?  How many days could it take for each faction to win, in the best/worst case scenarios?  What are some possible endgames?  What stops the players from breaking the game out of the way you want it to be played (or, what's going to make people inclined to play the way you want)?   What are the win conditions?  Can they change?  How does that affect the players?  Is there bastard modding going on (aka outright lying to some/all players as the mod, like telling a mason group they're all townies when one is a scum traitor), and if so how is it going to keep the game fun rather than annoying?  This is just a start, not nearly comprehensive.  No role should be an afterthought.  If you're at all trying to make a game that's balanced and fun, you cannot just say "Well everyone gets a role" and pick random things that look cool off the Mafiascum wiki. 

- Run your setup by someone knowledgeable, if at all possible.

- Mod fairly and to the best of your abilities.  Follow the spirit of the rules, not the letter.  Take extra care that you don't do things like accidentally publicly confirm roles or reveal parts of the setup that aren't meant to be public knowledge.

- Keep a close watch on your game as it plays out.  Avoid substantially changing any rules or roles midgame, unless it's absolutely necessary for some reason.  Do not be afraid to dish out modkills and replacements as necessary.   On things like inactivity, every game has its own pace, but if you're running a briskly paced game with deadlines,  and a couple of people just don't show up or keep up, a smiting/replacing of the lurkers is in order. 

- Make it fun, keep it fun.  Consider giving some sort of warning at signup if you're running a setup out of the ordinary. 

[Ranmilia]

Things to do as a player:

- Be "experienced."  If you haven't played before, make sure you've at least read a couple games before jumping into one.  Make sure that you understand what's generally going on, theorywise, and that you have at least a decent grasp on logic.  Knowing common roles, terms, and situations is pretty much essential.  If I went line by line with examples I'd be here a long time, but to respond to Smodge with a recent example, be aware that scum will do literally anything if it is likely to result in them winning, and be aware of the conventions regarding voting, hammering, putting people at -1 to hammer, roleclaiming, etc.  More importantly, be aware of the logical game theory underlying these conventions.  If you're not sure, ask someone, and be sure to listen to whatever advice and answers you get.  Though obviously it's best to ask someone not in your current game, if it's about something neutral like common conventions.

- Be courteous.  Mafia is a faction-based social game at its core.  There will be lying, backstabbing, treachery, paranoia and mistakes.  You'll be scum sometimes, you'll be town sometimes, you'll win some, you'll lose some.  At some point in some game you are going to get mislynched for stupid reasons.  But it is just a game.  Don't take it personally, don't obsess over it, and, most importantly for when you're actually playing, keep your cool when things turn south.  Remember that in most cases, you win with your team, even if you're dead.  If you're a townie and you throw a fit about being mislynched, not only are you hurting town by distracting them (and making yourself look worse prior to lynch, probably) you're hurting the game for everyone, including yourself. 

- Do your best to play to win and help your team.  After the game is over, don't take losing seriously, but while you're playing you should not "be okay with a loss" and give up or act randomly or whatever.  Play to win.

- Try not to mess up your teammates.  This includes a lot of stuff.  If you're town, don't lurk or play scummy and thereby invite a mislynch on yourself.    Don't make roleclaims that could hurt town without a very good reason.  If you're scum, try and be in agreement with each other, and have short and long term plans.

[Strago]

##VOTE: Strago

One early post, been lurking since then, and it's Day 1.

Well you're just terrified of me, aren't you?

Thanks for those pointers, Alex.

[OblivionKnight]

Damn, killed in NR before I could get around the network outage ;_;  Oh well, fun while it lasted.  Can't wait to see how it ends.

[Yakumo]

Well, since the Mafia board on the other forum's been locked, I guess I'll ask here.  What happened to everyone over the last couple days of NR Mafia?  The people that were bothering to play were acting odd, and too many people just weren't playing at all.  I didn't think Gate did a bad job with it or anything, so what was going on?

[Luther Lansfeld]

I enjoyed the NR Mafia a lot personally. You guys just fail. (And damn scum killed me day 1.)

[superaielman]

I wanted to either kill you or Otter. You because you were going to sniff me out as scum in a hurry, Otter because he talks too damn much.  Decided at the last second to vote against NKing you but I got overruled. So it goes!

[Carthrat]

I can't gloat in the other thread, so I did in IRC. And let's see.

From my perspective, me and Fen had been giving out huge scumtells. Fen just *wasn't posting at all* and my own were suspiciously devoid of real content. For someone who keeps telling other people they're reiterating other peoples points, I sure did a lot of it myself. I played pretty awfully and it was only town playing worse that let me stay alive to the win.

Anyone who looked hard at what I was saying about OK should've quickly realized I was speaking in extremely vauge terms, as well. I seriously had no idea why everyone was *so certain* he was scum. He made some mistakes! This is not entirely scummy! Lurking is scummy! Saying nothing substantive is scummy! Making huge scumtells in day 1, doing nothing in day 2, and then being really vauge in day 3 is scummy!

Latching onto *one person* and not letting go, especially in LYLO, and using terms like "Well, let's get this part over with," is kind of scummy, but mostly silly. Otter... what were you thinking? Why'd you act so blaisely confident on day 3? If I'd been town, I probably would've called you out on that far harder and earlier. Cor, don't invite scumhammer at LYLO.

QR was easily MVP of scum. We roleblocked Otter because, well... he made a big deal about getting roleblocked, and pikachu could indeed have roleblocked one of us at LYLO. It was actually a really near thing- we were going to kill B5S, but only at the last second did Fenrir realise b5s had roleclaimed vanilla (and townies never lie, even when it's actually wise to do so. Lynch all liars my *foot*, I believe there are times when it can be useful. So people lynch you the next day after your ploy is dealt with? If it works, then 1 town for one scum isn't no bad deal.)

Yakko played pretty well, but DL has really got to stop clinging to roleclaims and acting ultra-scummy as town, never mind letting scum lurk. Letting *anyone* lurk.

Also, I've been scum 4 out of 5 board games, and I was a prostitute, which is a role I keep getting in IRC games. I hate any and all mafia mods, and I think they're in some conspiracy, here.

[superaielman]

I have to say, my ability to trainwreck things is peerless.