Season 44, Week 3 - Cecilia goes commando versus Tales bosses and Light fails.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Godlike:

Kefka Palazzo (FF6) vs Zeromus (FF4)
Van Grants (TotA) vs Cecilia Lyne Adelhyde (WA1)
Chaos (FF1) vs Kurando Inugami (SH2)
Yunalesca (FFX) vs Jade (BoF1)

Heavy:

Eirika (FE8) vs Alfina de Pamela (G3)
Antenora (WA2) vs Jenova (FF7)
Decus (SO2) vs Suicune (PKMN)
Hahn Mahlay (PS4) vs Rose (LoD)

Middle:

Margulis (XSs) vs  Meganium (PKMN)
Keneth (S4) vs Valeria (Suikos)
Nelis (S5) vs Aika (SoA)
Meredy (ToE) vs Albert Serdio (LoD)

Light:

Zylo (SF1) vs Gogo (FF6)
Hix (Suikos) vs Kent (FE7)
Jean (BoF2) vs Cius (S5)
Rafa Galthana (FFT) vs Fargo (CC)

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Godlike:

Kefka Palazzo (FF6) vs Zeromus (FF4) - I think Kefka OHKOs without much fuss. He certainly doesn't need to, either. Hell, he doesn't need to -2HKO- Zeromus, and the idea of Kefka not 2HKOing Zeromus is pretty out there to me.
Yunalesca (FFX) vs Jade (BoF1) - BoltX and durability edge are quite unsurmountable a gap for Yunalesca to outpace even with Absorb offense respect.

Antenora (WA2) vs Jenova (FF7) - Kneejerk here is 3HKOs first at worst.
Decus (SO2) vs Suicune (PKMN) - Man, that's some awful spoiling here.
Hahn Mahlay (PS4) vs Rose (LoD) - Rose immunes ID. Hahn doesn't. Game.

Middle:

Keneth (S4) vs Valeria (Suikos) - Kneejerk is she 2HKOs first.

Light:

Zylo (SF1) vs Gogo (FF6) - You have got to be fucking kidding me.
Hix (Suikos) vs Kent (FE7) - Academic.
Rafa Galthana (FFT) vs Fargo (CC) - Rafa sucks.

[superaielman]

Godlike:

Kefka Palazzo (FF6) vs Zeromus (FF4)
Van Grants (TotA) vs Cecilia Lyne Adelhyde (WA1)- Later
Chaos (FF1) vs Kurando Inugami (SH2)
Yunalesca (FFX) vs Jade (BoF1)

Heavy:

Eirika (FE8) vs Alfina de Pamela (G3)
Antenora (WA2) vs Jenova (FF7)- Jenova shouldn't have been ranked. Go AWAY.
Hahn Mahlay (PS4) vs Rose (LoD)

Middle:

Keneth (S4) vs Valeria (Suikos)- easy 2HKO. Don't see Val winning with either form.
Nelis (S5) vs Aika (SoA)- Confuse lock. Aika can throw in some healing as need be, but.. confuse lock.
Meredy (ToE) vs Albert Serdio (LoD)- The ID hype may actually be valid here. Yuck. Will look at this more later.

Light:

Zylo (SF1) vs Gogo (FF6)- Faster
Hix (Suikos) vs Kent (FE7)- Counters/better damage
Jean (BoF2) vs Cius (S5)- Outslugs even without status, pathetic
Rafa Galthana (FFT) vs Fargo (CC)- Fargo has some issues here. The elf mantle really is bad news for him- it makes his heavy and medium attacks worthless and makes his light attacks somewhat chancey.  Missing is very bad in CC, it breaks up your chain. Thinking that one of her armors (White robe to weaken Fargo's techs, or earth clothes to heal somewhat) should tip things.

[Dhyerwolf]

Godlike:

Kefka Palazzo (FF6) vs Zeromus (FF4)- Kefka
Van Grants (TotA) vs Cecilia Lyne Adelhyde (WA1)- Cecilia
Chaos (FF1) vs Kurando Inugami (SH2)- Chaos?
Yunalesca (FFX) vs Jade (BoF1)- Jade

Heavy:

Eirika (FE8) vs Alfina de Pamela (G3)- Alfina. Eirika doesn't OHKO thanks to crits.
Antenora (WA2) vs Jenova (FF7)- Hrm.
Decus (SO2) vs Suicune (PKMN)- Suicune
Hahn Mahlay (PS4) vs Rose (LoD)- Rose. Getting two wins in Heavy. Argh.

Middle:

Margulis (XSs) vs  Meganium (PKMN)- Don't want to look up Margulis.
Keneth (S4) vs Valeria (Suikos)- Keneth. Faster.
Nelis (S5) vs Aika (SoA)- Aika
Meredy (ToE) vs Albert Serdio (LoD)- Meredy. Destiny is like 90% Earth damage.

Light:

Zylo (SF1) vs Gogo (FF6)- Gogo. Skills.
Hix (Suikos) vs Kent (FE7)- Hix. If Kent wants counters, he has to use Javelin...
Jean (BoF2) vs Cius (S5)- Jean
Rafa Galthana (FFT) vs Fargo (CC)- Fargo. Rafa wants to resists the techs, then she kills her pseudo healing.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Godlike:

Kefka Palazzo (FF6) vs Zeromus (FF4): Well this is easy. Ridiculously more offence offsets a bit more durability.
Van Grants (TotA) vs Cecilia Lyne Adelhyde (WA1): Above half HP, all Van has is vaguely average speed borderline 2HKO. That does not work here. Cecilia uses Quicken, heals until a double (or an evade), starts stacking buffs to the moon. By the time Van gets better damage she has infinite defences and is immune to evadable (read: Mystic Art, even if you don't see them getting owned by defence) damage.
Chaos (FF1) vs Kurando Inugami (SH2): Kneejerk. Inclined to see Crack hitting through standard ID resistance, and as I discovered last week, Kurando's magic damage sucks. Even if he immunes Crack, Hasted physicals inflicting paralysis may own him anyway.
Yunalesca (FFX) vs Jade (BoF1): Yep.

Heavy:

Eirika (FE8) vs Alfina de Pamela (G3): Edit: I'm retarded. Eirika -goes first-. And while Alfina isn't as fragile as you might expect, she is below average.
Antenora (WA2) vs Jenova (FF7): Definitely more respect for her slugging.
Decus (SO2) vs Suicune (PKMN): Such massive spoling. Halves Fire, damage is Water magic!
Hahn Mahlay (PS4) vs Rose (LoD): Immunes ID! Hahn can't say the same.

Middle:

Margulis (XSs) vs  Meganium (PKMN): Fire! That's probably that. Meganium can buff and all, but probably kills a bit too slowly to the point where Margulis gets some crazy stuff going. Still going to doublecheck this later.
Keneth (S4) vs Valeria (Suikos): Faster, 2HKOs solidly. 793 damage to 1230 kill point.

Light:

Zylo (SF1) vs Gogo (FF6): Edit: Yeah, faster and will probably evade once anyway. FF6 scrubs > SF1 scrubs.
Hix (Suikos) vs Kent (FE7): Right.
Jean (BoF2) vs Cius (S5): Also epic.
Rafa Galthana (FFT) vs Fargo (CC): Doing a lot of damage at once owns Rafa just as well as it owns Rinoa. Fargo is pretty solid.

[Monkeyfinger]

Godlike:

Kefka Palazzo (FF6) vs Zeromus (FF4): I'd have voted for Zeromus if flare could be used from the getgo, since both it and havoc wing 2HKO and Zeromus is faster. Oh well, sucks for him.
Van Grants (TotA) vs Cecilia Lyne Adelhyde (WA1): 2HKOs. Much faster, enough not be lapped after quick. Tales fighters mock 3-hit-blocker shit like Dummy Doll, and hide's pointless due to the whole counter thing.
Chaos (FF1) vs Kurando Inugami (SH2)
Yunalesca (FFX) vs Jade (BoF1)

Heavy:

Eirika (FE8) vs Alfina de Pamela (G3): Well I see Eirika critting turn 1 on her double, but I don't think Alfina was as fragile as you'd expect so she might not be one rounded by that. This will involve boring number-lookups and calculations at some point, too lazy for now. Alfina's techs are ITE physicals, so if she does get a turn stun force is the "own" move, not the melee blocker.
Decus (SO2) vs Suicune (PKMN)

Middle:

Margulis (XSs) vs  Meganium (PKMN): What if anything was meganium's buff game like? All margulis has at full HP is his 2 weakest moves, I forget if they were fire but they were really pathetic anyway. A 2x weakness wouldn't make themn scary.
Nelis (S5) vs Aika (SoA)

Light:

Zylo (SF1) vs Gogo (FF6)
Hix (Suikos) vs Kent (FE7)
Jean (BoF2) vs Cius (S5)
Rafa Galthana (FFT) vs Fargo (CC)

[superaielman]

Fargo has to hit through the evade constantly and he has no L3. He is not an especially great light and any kind of evade screws him up- he only has a base 85% hit rate to start.

HIs techs are shit in the DL as well. His L3 is Stealing and thus worthless, his L5 is MT and only does 180. Not much better. His L7 is decent but that's turn two at the earliest and is only 360~ or so. He's about as good as FunGuy in the DL, which is not horrible but also not worth any kind of hype.

[Dhyerwolf]

Eirika (FE8) vs Alfina de Pamela (G3): Well I see Eirika critting turn 1 on her double, but I don't think Alfina was as fragile as you'd expect so she might not be one rounded by that. This will involve boring number-lookups and calculations at some point, too lazy for now.

FE 8 killer KO point is around 85, and Eirika does 72. Alfina is a tad below average in HP and defense, but only a small bit on both.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Much faster, enough not be lapped after quick.

Uh no. Van is only faster than Anise and Jade, as we now know. (I know he's slower than Natalia, she's apparently #4.) That does not equate to a speed demon. You can see Jade as super-slow due to Tales mage, but if you do, his optimum damage becomes his physical game. Van would need Guy speed to avoid a Cecilia double, whose Quicken lets her lap Jack.

[Monkeyfinger]

Alfina has... 96% HP. Yeah, figures. Doubt G3 defense is significant enough to let Eirika kill her.

Upon further review Meganium can't stack his MDef buff. It and the weakness cancel out, leaving Rakta as a.... 5HKO? But that might even be good enough thanks to comboing. God.

[Dhyerwolf]

Fargo has to hit through the evade constantly and he has no L3. He is not an especially great light and any kind of evade screws him up- he only has a base 85% hit rate to start.

HIs techs are shit in the DL as well. His L3 is Stealing and thus worthless, his L5 is MT and only does 180. Not much better. His L7 is decent but that's turn two at the earliest and is only 360~ or so. He's about as good as FunGuy in the DL, which is not horrible but also not worth any kind of hype.

He has 85% base hit, but the average is 88%. Yeah, based on in-game enemy evasion, both those are probably a little lower (5%? 8%? 10%?), but the overall gap is still pretty narrow. He's a bit below average accuracy, but any bit of evade isn't screwing him up (And if you just consider that 85% that starting point against even 0% evasion in the DL, the damage average is at least going to drop to compensate).

Fargo is also in the upper quarter for overall attack score, and has about 35% more HP than Rafa.

He still has his L7, which is good defense when chained into his physical (If you don't allow chaining, then the damage average drops even more, and L3s and L5s may not even ever be used). Lacking an L3 and a great L5 hurts a bit if you don't factor in recharge (Which I don't), but I think most people do. In this case, the only issue with the L7 is really on the first turn since the recharge otherwise makes using the techs in general horribly impractical.

[muakaka]

Godlike:

Kefka Palazzo (FF6) vs Zeromus (FF4)- Obvious.
Van Grants (TotA) vs Cecilia Lyne Adelhyde (WA1) -
Only match here that isn't downright obvious to me.
Do note that Van's movement speed is slower than Natalia only when she has Dash turned on. His speed is similar to Tear (without Dash).
Still, that's only above average, and as Elfboy stated, he'll roughly need Guy speed to avoid the lapping.

Only way I see him winning this is if you respect his Mystic Arte's damage enough to OHKO Cecilia, but it probably won't since she'll buff herself to hell first.
Mystic Artes in TotA, notably, overcomes Force Field, which is damage immunity. I once got off a Force Field right before Sync used Akashic Torment, but it still hit.
Another thing you could hype Van for is Overlimit, which is never mentioned in the stat topic, but raises offence by about 30-40% and reduces damage by about 30%(it's actually not so much raw defense, but the fact that he doesn't stagger). It's an extremely fast move, and he KNOWS how to spam it.
Problem is, Mystic Artes do not get that awesome damage boost, since they cancel Overlimit.

I saw Dhaos as much stronger than Van, so...yeah. Match to Cecilia unless someone manages to convince me otherwise.

Chaos (FF1) vs Kurando Inugami (SH2)- Also obvious.
Yunalesca (FFX) vs Jade (BoF1)- THE most obvious.

Heavy:

Eirika (FE8) vs Alfina de Pamela (G3)
Antenora (WA2) vs Jenova (FF7)- Kneejerk
Decus (SO2) vs Suicune (PKMN)- Horribly SPOILED.
Hahn Mahlay (PS4) vs Rose (LoD)- Possible champ? @_@.

Middle:

Margulis (XSs) vs  Meganium (PKMN)- MY BRAINS.
Keneth (S4) vs Valeria (Suikos)- S1 Val. Keneth 2HKOs, Val's slower.
Nelis (S5) vs Aika (SoA)
Meredy (ToE) vs Albert Serdio (LoD)- Destiny. It burns.

Light:

Zylo (SF1) vs Gogo (FF6)
Jean (BoF2) vs Cius (S5)- At least he has something other than scrubbish physicals.
Rafa Galthana (FFT) vs Fargo (CC)- The hell? I'm voting for a CC character?

[SnowFire]

Godlike:

Kefka Palazzo (FF6) vs Zeromus (FF4) - WTF?  I can only assume that this must be Kefka speed hype, but I seem to recall Kefka as trading turns with my team, and at least Hardtype Zeromus constantly doubles.  Meaning that the turn order is something like Z->K->Z->Z.  So Virus, Havok Wing, Flare, Flare.  Flare is a 2HKO, Kefka's HP is not spectacular, and Virus just piles on to make sure.
Chaos (FF1) vs Kurando Inugami (SH2) - My Kurando speed respect is pretty high, and my Chaos respect has gone down.  Kurando is tentatively 3HKOing here?  (Endgame Knight can bust out 2000/4=500 damage pretty fast).  And the threat of doubles off of Jutendoji means that Chaos has to blow his Cure4 early, and Chaos needs to spend a turn casting Fast, too.  I'm not sure Chaos really gets his offense going here.

Heavy:

Eirika (FE8) vs Alfina de Pamela (G3) - Am I missing something here?  Alfina is below average HP, Eirika has a Sacred Twin and doubles, and thus Eirika's damage needs to be only a little bit above average to take Alfina down.

Middle:

Margulis (XSs) vs  Meganium (PKMN) - As best I can tell, it seems like Meganium's buffs are all anti-physical.  Margulis's best damage here is the magical Rakta anyway, which can be used from 100% health.  And once Margulis hits one boost, he either kills outright (If Rakta is a 3HKO, since Rakta->double damage Rakta) or heal locks (Rakta, threaten the rest of the chain next, and Margulis is faster).  Don't know Pokemon so no vote, but that's what it looks like, at least.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Meganium has Light Screen, which halves all magical damage. Though... only for five turns, and the recasting is not an annoyance it likes. Hmm.

[Ultradude]

Van Grants (TotA) vs Cecilia Lyne Adelhyde (WA1): Van goes first, doesn't kill. Cecilia Hides and heals. Boost speed until faster, probably break her Hide on a counterattack after buffing speed. From there, simply Hide and heal when needed, buff defense until Ancient Requiem can't kill. Then straight slugfest with him >_>

Margulis (XSs) vs  Meganium (PKMN): Builds up to combo of some sort while Meganium is under Light screen, and has enough HP to last through it. Kills before Meganium can put it back up.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Godlike:

Kefka Palazzo (FF6) vs Zeromus (FF4) - WTF?  I can only assume that this must be Kefka speed hype, but I seem to recall Kefka as trading turns with my team, and at least Hardtype Zeromus constantly doubles.  Meaning that the turn order is something like Z->K->Z->Z.  So Virus, Havok Wing, Flare, Flare.  Flare is a 2HKO, Kefka's HP is not spectacular, and Virus just piles on to make sure.

Virus doesn't work on Kefka, I believe he's immune to Seizure (and he's obviously immune to poison), and Flare is not only a 3HKO, it's a -limit- 3HKO. And Kefka trading turns with your party is partly because he has a lot of "do nothing" random instances in his AI and brought further by the fact that both sides get initiative on the match. Also, while Zeromus -is- fast, the fact that he counters magic will inflate the apparent speed to a casual glance. Although FF6 speed respect isn't really hard to not have and I can't blame you, the stat is kinda bad in-game.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Yeah, Kefka's immune to the poison element. So above half HP, Zeromus can do... nothing at all to Kefka, besides charge for Big Bang. And even by the view of a 3-2 there (which I find mildly ludicrous, but whatever), Charge -> Big Bang -> Flare probably doesn't kill Kefka, who has above average MDef and not totally horrible HP (if not great). I'd more easily buy Kefka just OHKOing, I think. <_<

[Monkeyfinger]

Margulis's best damage here is the magical Rakta anyway, which can be used from 100% health.

No it can't be. I don't know when it unlocks, but I'm dead sure that all he can do at first is shiva and shakti.

[SnowFire]

Monkeyfinger: I'm going off Split Infinity's FAQ, which says that Shiva, Kalagnirudra, and Summon/Surpress Chaaya unlock at 80% HP.  Presumably he can use Shakti, Rakta, and Syama at full health.

Jo'ou/DHE: So FF6 Bio bounces off Kefka?  Doesn't particularly matter to me since I see Flare/Big Bang or 2x Flare doing the trick anyway, but that does make it closer I'll grant.

[Monkeyfinger]

He must be mixing up Rakta with Shiva.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

You know, Snowfire, if you see Kefka getting 2HKOed by Flare+Big Bang... then, why should Kefka trigger the limit point for Flare anyway, instead of wasting time with a lower damage move? And, going by that, since Flare and Big Bang deal rather similar damage, Zeromus can't chip through Kefka's limit phase himself. Double Havoc Wing on just about anything except Myria1 and Fou-Lu = *splorch.*, and Zeromus is far closer to Kefka durability than Myria durability anyway. It doesn't really follow all too well.

[Monkeyfinger]

It's become popular these days to not let Kefka use that limit the first turn he gets hurt that much, since it only has a ~50% chance of triggering

not that I agree, but there you have it

[Dhyerwolf]

Eirika (FE8) vs Alfina de Pamela (G3) - Am I missing something here?  Alfina is below average HP, Eirika has a Sacred Twin and doubles, and thus Eirika's damage needs to be only a little bit above average to take Alfina down.

If you factor in Killer Weapons (since it's notably better damage over 3 turns), Eirika's damage isn't as impressive and she wouldn't kill off Alfina in a turn since she likely only barely does it under the Silver average.

[Meeplelard]

Godlike:

Kefka Palazzo (FF6) vs Zeromus (FF4): Kefka's speed is 72 and that's obscene regardless of what standards you use.  Either way...Big Bang + Flare isn't this almighty massive 2HKO.  Meanwhile, Kefka's got 2 Havok Wings being tossed in.  That's 2.8x PCHP WHEN HITTING THE BACK ROW (double if Front Row), let alone the chance to double up on it if you see him 2HKOing.  Keep in mind the fact that if you see one havok wing triggering Flare phase, KEFKA WINS.  Flare = 50% Health, so if it triggers Flare phase, a second Havok Wing (which Kefka is getting off unless you see Big Bang OHKOing) will kill by definition.
Also, as a reminder, Havok Wing won't trigger a counter.  Zeromus does not counter physical skills like Jump, Build Up, or Throw in game, only Magic.  Havok Wing is clearly physical.
Van Grants (TotA) vs Cecilia Lyne Adelhyde (WA1): Buffs, smites, etc.
Chaos (FF1) vs Kurando Inugami (SH2): Thinking he wins this slugfest.
Yunalesca (FFX) vs Jade (BoF1): BoltX, etc.

Heavy:

Eirika (FE8) vs Alfina de Pamela (G3): Don't see taking Killer averages as standard so...
Antenora (WA2) vs Jenova (FF7): Antenora's good stuff is magical...Jenova DEATH is a magic tank.
Decus (SO2) vs Suicune (PKMN): To add what everyone else said, Suicune also has Rain Dance and above average speed, making Decus even more screwed.
Hahn Mahlay (PS4) vs Rose (LoD): Immunes Instant Death, Dragoon Form heals her from any sort of scary thing Hahn can do, and she goes first.  Hahn dies when Rose gets her second turn as such.

Middle:

Margulis (XSs) vs  Meganium (PKMN): Need to look this up, though, sounds like Margulius has the advantage.
Keneth (S4) vs Valeria (Suikos): Yeah, guess her winning a damage race works for me.
Nelis (S5) vs Aika (SoA): Swimmerlang.
Meredy (ToE) vs Albert Serdio (LoD): Kneejerk.

Light:

Zylo (SF1) vs Gogo (FF6): Zylo really sucks so much that Gogo can beat him, yeah.
Hix (Suikos) vs Kent (FE7): Kent looks like Middle Champ compared to the people in this Quarter!
Jean (BoF2) vs Cius (S5): Death.
Rafa Galthana (FFT) vs Fargo (CC): Think Fargo puts enough pressure on Rafa to eventually take her down.

[SnowFire]

Jo'ou: Actually...  that's a good point.  Zeromus's inability to chip himself if Kefka decides to chip is definitely a weakness, since Some Random Attack + Double Havok Wing will definitely do the job in response to a single Big Bang.  I'd have switched my vote if Monkeyfinger didn't point out that the match is actually a 50% coinflip based on if the double action happens.  Kneejerk Kefka disrespect means that I'll be assuming that Zeromus lucks out.

Meeplelard: Yes, but FF6 Speed is a nearly worthless stat.  Useful for determining first turn initiative, but after that, everyone's pretty much average speed as far as doubling to me.  Hence, Zeromus can get in the double action he needs.