Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 21

[Nephrite]

Aha! Again, again, good! Try and keep it up.


Team Dude vs. Floor 2, 10-0
Team Gate vs. Floor 2, 8-3
Team Excal vs. Floor 2, 10-0


Team Dude and Excal's Matches

Floor 3b: Multiples (Before Midgame)

So you want to try multiple foes? Let's see how you like this, then!

*All ST is MT for this floor. ALL of it.

Battle #11: Erk and Dorcas

Erk: Hmph. I can't believe I have to waste my time.

Battle #12: Tidus and FFT Time Mage

Tidus: This is STILL my story!!

Battle #13: Flik and Juan

Flik: Hmph, this isn't even worthy of us.
Juan: Yawn... let me take a nap...

Battle #14: Alma and Zalbag

Alma: I will protect my brother no matter what!
Zalbag: Alma... I will protect you with my life.

Boss Battle #3: Dhoulmagus and Pikachu

Dhoulmagus: What a pity... to have to fight me!
Pikachu: Pika... Pika?


Team Gate's Matches

Floor 3a: Singles (Before Midgame)

One is such a lonely number, isn't it...?

*Any MT is now ST and can be targetted like normal Single spells or abilities.

Battle #11: Jowy

Jowy: I'm sorry to have to do this...but I have to think of my future.

Battle #12: Deis1 and Nina1

Deis: Hohoho... You wish to delve deeper into the secrets of this place? You may not like what you find...
Nina1: We can't let you pass here.

Battle #13: Aeonless Yuna and Lulu

Yuna: I may not be able to summon any longer, but that won't stop us.
Lulu: That's right. You cannot pass here.

Battle #14: Demi and Wren

Demi: I apologize, but I cannot allow you to pass.
Wren: We shall fight you until the bitter end. Do not resist.

Boss Battle #3: Dehuai

Dehuai: You're not the one I'm after... but I'll kill you anyway.


---------------------------------------------


Team dude | Purim, Rune, Jane, Marcus, Mint
[Floor 3b]
Floor 3b
*All ST is MT
Team dude vs. Erk and Dorcas
Team dude vs. Tidus (Caladbolg) and FFT Time Mage
Team dude vs. Flik and Juan
Team dude vs. Alma and Zalbag
Team dude vs. Dhoulmagus 2 and Pikachu

Team Gate | Purim, Guv, Ursula, Porom, FF1 Monk
[Floor 3a]
Floor 3a
*All MT is ST and targetable
Team Gate vs. Jowy
Team Gate vs. Deis 1 and Nina 1
Team Gate vs. Aeonless Yuna and Lulu
Team Gate vs. Demi and Wren
Team Gate vs. Dehuai

Team Excal | Ramza, Angelo (Staves), Cecil, DW1 Hero, FF1 Monk
[Floor 3b]
[Ramza: Oracle (Silence and Paralyze)]
[Equipment: Battle Bamboo, Mithril Shield, Wizard Robe, Triangle Hat, Wizard Mantle]
[Item / Auto Potion / Equip Shield]
Floor 3b
*All ST is MT
Team Excal vs. Erk and Dorcas
Team Excal vs. Tidus (Caladbolg) and FFT Time Mage
Team Excal vs. Flik and Juan
Team Excal vs. Alma and Zalbag
Team Excal vs. Dhoulmagus 2 and Pikachu

Also decide on Floor 4a (Healing Reverse) or 4b (Limited Healing/No Revival). If you need a copy of the floor just let me know.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Team dude | Purim, Rune, Jane, Marcus, Mint
[Floor 3b]
Floor 3b
*All ST is MT
Team dude vs. Erk and Dorcas - Simple.
Team dude vs. Tidus and FFT Time Mage - Tidus and TM would give him fits if Rune magic wasn't still pretty solid right now.
Team dude vs. Flik and Juan - However, Rune's speed? Noooooooot so solid right now. Flik goes first and blows the team up.

Team Gate | Purim, Guv, Ursula, Porom, FF1 Monk
[Floor 3a]
Floor 3a
*All MT is ST and targetable
Team Gate vs. Jowy - They beat him, but Jowy OHKOs Porom and they have no other source of revival. Things will get -ugly-.
Team Gate vs. Deis 1 and Nina 1 - Like in here. Deis and Nina mock Ursula's status fiercely, and Gate doesn't have the resources to blitz through them, nor the speed. And, if they did? They'd still make a number, and Yuna+Lulu would finish mopping them up.

Team Excal | Ramza, Angelo (Staves), Cecil, DW1 Hero, FF1 Monk
[Floor 3b]
[Ramza: Oracle (Silence and Paralyze)]
[Equipment: Battle Bamboo, Mithril Shield, Wizard Robe, Triangle Hat, Wizard Mantle]
[Item / Auto Potion / Equip Shield]
Floor 3b
*All ST is MT
Team Excal vs. Erk and Dorcas - Auto-Potion begins being badass around here. Erk and Dorcas kinda lack the offense to kill people here.
Team Excal vs. Tidus and FFT Time Mage - Excal paralyzes Tidus and Time Mage eats it to the physicals.
Team Excal vs. Flik and Juan - Too bad Flik still exists and blows everybody up, though. Oracle isn't fast, IIRC.

[Excal]

I don't have enough time to make a full analysis at present, so I'm just going to point out one thing I think Snow overlooked.  By now, Angelo would have at least Staves 9, which gives him Bounce.  He's also notably above average speed, while Flik is barely above average.  Which means that he can pull out Bounce, and null the Lvl 4 charge from Flik.

[Random Consonant]

Team Dude - Fail.  Unless I'm missing something, the team can't stop Flik before he gets a turn.  Ouch.

Team Gate - Fail.  This is just ugly.

Team Excal - Bounce works for the Suiko fight if Angelo gets a turn, looks like.  Pass, I guess, since the rest of the floor doesn't look all that threatening.

[dude789]

My team makes it. The only really hard floor is the Juan/Flik fight. If you see Jane as having Follow Me or Purim as going before the barely above average speed Flik with a 2 second spell then she blaze walls them and they win easily. If you see Purim surviving Flik's turn with her above average mdef they also win.  Even if Purim dies before she gets a turn my team should be able to beat them. Jane goes first and defends ensuring that she survives Flik's attack. Rune will survive because of his mdef and he Revers the team. Jane mystics a healing item and the team statuses out the two.

I don't think Gate makes it. Porom gets taken out early and he can't recover from that.

Excal should make it. Auto Potion is really good right now.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

I don't have enough time to make a full analysis at present, so I'm just going to point out one thing I think Snow overlooked.  By now, Angelo would have at least Staves 9, which gives him Bounce.  He's also notably above average speed, while Flik is barely above average.  Which means that he can pull out Bounce, and null the Lvl 4 charge from Flik.

Angelo isn't "significantly" above average speed, either, actually. Then, it's a bit of a cointoss to who goes first. Although, assuming you -do- pass through Flik... I have no idea how you get past Pikachu/Dhoulmagus with your entire party under Pokémon Paralyze before you get a turn, and FFT equip cheese still not up to par - unless Angelo's damage is better than 4HKO before endgame. Maybe I should start up DQ8 while I don't get G3's second disc anyhow. >_>

[Excal]

Team Dude vs. Floor 3

Yeah, from what I can tell, both Follow Me and Revers are Floor 4 abilities.  Meaning that Rune is going to be useless for any serious healing, even if he does survive.  And Mint needs to live in order to bring anyone back.  However, even if that does happen, the final battle will see his party horrifically T-Waved, leaving him paralyzed, which should prove enough for Dhoulmagus to simply overwhealm him, since his healers hate solid physical damage.  Especially since he'll be fasting a lot of his resources simply trying to get back on his feet without waking up Juan before he can blitz in that Flik battle.


Team Gate vs. Floor 3

Yeah, I have to agree with Snow here.  The first three matches are revenge of the OHKOs and he's sporting one reviver at present.  Jowy offs Porom, and then it's a simple matter of the following two fights crushing him.


Team Excal vs. Floor 3

The first two battles are simple enough, and T-Wave is dealt with by Angelo's Tingle.  Ramza's Auto Potion hasn't just upgraded to Hi Potions, but on this floor arguably also hits the entire party.  So, Dhoulmagus will have issues when Ramza can easily keep the party healed.  As for Zalbag, he's not immune to status, meaning that he can be taken out that way.

So, let's look at the problem fight.

Flik has 135 speed against an average of 130.
Angelo has 117 speed against an average of 109.

117/109 > 135/130 meaning that Angelo wins the speed off, and his Bounce affects the entire party, blocking Flik's magic without affecting Ramza's, or his own, healing.  Then Ramza follows up with a Paralyze and this fight can be picked off at their leisure.



Edit: Snow, Angelo has a spell which specifically heals the party of Paralyze.  Pikachu then dies in the following round as Cecil, DW1 Hero, and Monk attack.

[superaielman]

*Smack* Angelo's scaled to the time, not endgame.

[Excal]

True, but my memories are of Jess and Angelo being a lot closer at the start with Jess having better growth.  So, this suggests that Angelo would be, if anything else, faster earlier on in the game.

[superaielman]

Guv also has speed boosting equips early on, IIRC. Angelo starts off very slowly.

Team dude | Purim, Rune, Jane, Marcus, Mint
[Floor 3b]
Floor 3b
*All ST is MT
Team dude vs. Erk and Dorcas- ID.
Team dude vs. Tidus and FFT Time Mage- Rune should beat out Tidus (ID time), Time Mage can't do anything horribly fatal.
Team dude vs. Flik and Juan- Seals. Heal up, prepare for brutal chain of fights.
Team dude vs. Alma and Zalbag- Blaze Wall.
Team dude vs. Dhoulmagus and Pikachu- Thundershock wrecks Dude's team too badly offhand. Dhoulmagus can clean up from there.

Team Gate | Purim, Guv,  Ursula, Porom, FF1 Monk
[Floor 3a]
Floor 3a
*All MT is ST and targetable
Team Gate vs. Jowy[/b]- OHKO Porom. Guv *may* have revival at this point. Let's assume so. Purim statuses Jowy, Guv revives.
Team Gate vs. Deis 1 and Nina 1- Hold Purim, OHKO Porom. Monk/Guv/Ursula (Zing's 50/50, Guv really does not want to chance that) knock out Nina 1, as they don't want her reviving and healing. Deis Deaths Guv.. mmm, that's also bad.  Come to think of it, I don't see how they get past this flight without taking at least one casuality (Or more, they need luck with Zing).And they need to get to Yuna/Lulu in good shape. I don't think they make it past the Demi/Wren.
Team Gate vs. Aeonless Yuna and Lulu
Team Gate vs. Demi and Wren
Team Gate vs. Dehuai

Team Excal | Ramza, Angelo (Staves), Cecil, DW1 Hero, FF1 Monk
[Floor 3b]
[Ramza: Oracle (Silence and Paralyze)]
[Equipment: Battle Bamboo, Mithril Shield, Wizard Robe, Triangle Hat, Wizard Mantle]
[Item / Auto Potion / Equip Shield]
Floor 3b
*All ST is MT
Team Excal vs. Erk and Dorcas- Angelo bounces, Ramza don't acts. Easy.
Team Excal vs. Tidus and FFT Time Mage- Oh christ. I'm going to assume that Tidus only is a minor resource drain here and that they can get past this fight. Auto potion should render quick hit cheese managable and TM shouldn't be able to get a Meteor off thanks to Hero/Monk/Cecil's offensive blitz.
Team Excal vs. Flik and Juan- Bounce, sure.
Team Excal vs. Alma and Zalbag- ..Wow. Alma Mbarriers here. Everyone on the team goes before Zalbag. Question is, is that enough? He has no physical evade (If he opts for that, he promptly gets statused out and pummeled to death before Alma can do much anyway.) Cecil's physical is pretty worthless on the damage average right now thanks to Tellah existing. Monk should be..  above average at least, right. Thief/WW sucking it up. Mmm. Thinking that Angelo throwing in a tension puts the team over on the kill point on Zalbag even with MBarrier and his HP. (He has to use a robe here, otherwise he lacks the MP to make ruins scary). Auto potion should see them through the worst of what Alma can do, and ether should leave them in good shape for the boss fight.
Team Excal vs. Dhoulmagus and Pikachu- Damage blitz? Probably not happening thanks to auto potion. Thundershock? Countered by Cecil's esuna spell. Hasting Dhoulmagus? A terrifying thought. Looking. *Checks* I don't think the team can deal with it- Dispel? Costs a lot of JP, I'm not going to give Excal that. (He also has shit for HP at this point, Dhouly is probably one rounding Ramza. Shouldn've used equip armor).

I.. just think Excal needs too many calls in his favor. If he loses the speedoff with Flik's team, he is taking a major resource hit with round robin revival. If a hasted Zalbag beats out his slew of average speed attackers, he has to worry about Mbarrier and timing. Just.. augh. The boss fight is really tough there as well, thanks to Ramza's innately awful durability as an Oracle.

[Rozalia]

Team dude | Purim, Rune, Jane, Marcus, Mint
[Floor 3b]
Floor 3b
*All ST is MT
Team dude vs. Erk and Dorcas
Team dude vs. Tidus (Caladbolg) and FFT Time Mage
Team dude vs. Flik and Juan
Team dude vs. Alma and Zalbag
Team dude vs. Dhoulmagus and Pikachu- Its doubtful the team can get past Flik but if they do then they are still getting worn down from the Zalbag fight and Dhoulmagus will then prove too much for the team.
As it says just Dhoulmagus I'm guessing he is getting the form chain also and its not just one form right? Just asking because I saw Dhoulmagus 2 before and took that as him being restricted to his second form.

Team Excal | Ramza, Angelo (Staves), Cecil, DW1 Hero, FF1 Monk
[Floor 3b]
[Ramza: Oracle (Silence and Paralyze)]
[Equipment: Battle Bamboo, Mithril Shield, Wizard Robe, Triangle Hat, Wizard Mantle]
[Item / Auto Potion / Equip Shield]
Floor 3b
*All ST is MT
Team Excal vs. Erk and Dorcas
Team Excal vs. Tidus (Caladbolg) and FFT Time Mage
Team Excal vs. Flik and Juan
Team Excal vs. Alma and Zalbag
Team Excal vs. Dhoulmagus and Pikachu- Okay same story as Team dude but a little more on Excals side. It is quite possible they could take Dhoulmagus down. However its shaky they get past the Flik fight and its shaky they beat Dhoulmagus and because of those things I'll have to vote against Excal here.

[Nephrite]

As it says just Dhoulmagus I'm guessing he is getting the form chain also and its not just one form right? Just asking because I saw Dhoulmagus 2 before and took that as him being restricted to his second form.

I fail miserably. Yes, it's Dhoulmagus form 2, the bird one.

[Excal]

*Smack* Angelo's scaled to the time, not endgame.

Alright, I spent some time hunting, and found level by level stats for DQ8.  So, here you go.

Name: Speed/Average ->  Effective Speed

Flik:                                        135/130 ->  1.03
Lv 16 Angelo:                           51/43.5 ->  1.17
Lv 16 Angelo (w/Merc Bandana):  51/47.5  ->  1.07
Lv 17 Angelo:                           56/47 ->  1.19
Lv 17 Angelo (w/Merc Bandana):  56/51  ->  1.09

It's only through the allowance of a Mercury's Headband ASAP (It's available as of Pickham via Alchemy) that you get the numbers where Flik can manage to go before Angelo.  And without the Bandana, Angelo cleanly outspeeds Flik.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

No SDs?

[Clear Tranquil]

*scratches head*

I have Angelo speed respect ... just not Angelo skill growth respect. Since staves is one of the areas he grows quicker in though Bounce probably is viable for this stage so ... Normally it's ST and Angelo can only cast it on himself ... but on this floor ... yes Neph's dungeon is loveable at times >.>

[dude789]

Purim can rememdy away thunder wave while Mint heals up the damage Dhoulmagus inflicts. Pikachu's being taken out the first turn so they should be able to recover and overwhelm Dhoulmagus as Dhoulmagus 2 can't deal a huge amount of damage.

[ThePiggyman]

Leaning no on both Team Dude and Excal, though that might change after reading this topic over a few times.

Team Gate fails.

[Taishyr]

Team dude | Purim, Rune, Jane, Marcus, Mint
[Floor 3b]
Floor 3b
*All ST is MT
Team dude vs. Erk and Dorcas - Purim. Balloon, at worst, does paralyze computers.
Team dude vs. Tidus (Caladbolg) and FFT Time Mage - Purim.
Team dude vs. Flik and Juan - Purim.
Team dude vs. Alma and Zalbag - See my hesitation on Excal's team.
Team dude vs. Dhoulmagus 2 and Pikachu

Team Gate | Purim, Guv, Ursula, Porom, FF1 Monk
[Floor 3a]
Floor 3a
*All MT is ST and targetable
Team Gate vs. Jowy - I consider SoM's magic faster than a normal turn (not 200%, but). Jowy eats Blaze Wall.
Team Gate vs. Deis 1 and Nina 1 - And this is where it hinges. If your respect for Purim's magic is >133% speed, she disables Nina1 before Nina1 Holds or Idles. If not, she herself gets locked down, Porom gets killed, and the battle's a wash. While the three can disable Nina after that, they can't stop Deis from killing Guv, who's slower than average now, and so the battle ends there. Myself? No clue. Need to do a bit of testing, I suspect.

Edit: What I consider a SoM turn is the time it takes to swing your weapon, and then recharge back to 100%. By this, my casual eyeballing would put Purim at somewhere between 133% and 150%. So, to me, a pass.
Team Gate vs. Aeonless Yuna and Lulu - Status Yuna, from there it's downhill.
Team Gate vs. Demi and Wren - Thunder Blade. Once Demi's down, Wren can be stalled well enough.
Team Gate vs. Dehuai - Porom and Purim just heal the status (Purim should have enough for one or two Refreshes at this point, which is all she needs) as the other three slug him down to paste. I... think. This is actually kinda dicey - can Porom immune Stone? Apparently so with Gaia Gear, I guess.

Team Excal | Ramza, Angelo (Staves), Cecil, DW1 Hero, FF1 Monk
[Floor 3b]
[Ramza: Oracle (Silence and Paralyze)]
[Equipment: Battle Bamboo, Mithril Shield, Wizard Robe, Triangle Hat, Wizard Mantle]
[Item / Auto Potion / Equip Shield]
Floor 3b
*All ST is MT
Team Excal vs. Erk and Dorcas - Status Erk.
Team Excal vs. Tidus (Caladbolg) and FFT Time Mage - Status Tidu- wait, bad MDef. Uh. DW1 Hero statuses Tidus; if the Hero is blitzed, Angelo recovers him while Ramza keeps working. At the least, Silence takes out the Time Mage.
Team Excal vs. Flik and Juan - Angelo is Bouncy. Flik and Juan run screaming from the abomination. Well, Flik does. Juan's asleep and leaves Ramza time to status or Angelo time to Tension him to death.
Team Excal vs. Alma and Zalbag - Can't slow down Excal's Infinite Healing team enough- ...wait. Mbarrier'd Blood Sucking Undead Zalbag. ... Can that even work? Does Excal have a way to status Zalbag before he can get a turn of that? Argh. Silly ST->MT floor. Thinking.
Team Excal vs. Dhoulmagus 2 and Pikachu


Summary: Gate passes, not sure on Excal/dude.

[Rozalia]

As it says just Dhoulmagus I'm guessing he is getting the form chain also and its not just one form right? Just asking because I saw Dhoulmagus 2 before and took that as him being restricted to his second form.

I fail miserably. Yes, it's Dhoulmagus form 2, the bird one.

Thanks for clearing that up. I'll be sticking with my vote anyway because Dhoulmagus 2 is proberly enough in those fights anyway.

[Dhyerwolf]

No on Team Gate. Seems like they need some massive Purim speed or something to get them through, which I'm just not seeing since 2/3 of the PCs in SoM are spellcasters, and I'm not seeing 2/3 of a non-solidly defined speed cast as notably fast.

[Excal]

I'm assuming that Zalbag is the Human form and not the Zombie form because the Zombie form is simply get a turn and win on this floor, barring the ability to universally null a highly obscure status effect.

[Taishyr]

When I asked it was "Whatever you vote on."

So... yeah. I'm wondering if either team can manage a blitz on it. How fast -is- Oracle Ramza comparatively, anyway?

[Excal]

Average Speed vs. 11 speed.  Honestly, with the Mercury Bandana in play, I'm not sure Angelo is fast enough to pull something off, which wouldn't help that much since he needs to basically go whole hog and try to kill with Whack at that point.

[Tonfa]

All three fail it up, fail it up.

[Clear Tranquil]

Excal passes

Gate - tentative pass Need to check revival options.