Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Brainstorming Topic!

[Sir Donald 3.2]

Here are a few new things to talk about:

...

Luneth, Final Fantasy 3 DS  3.0 (Job change every floor to your customization)

Pros: Great selection of options for whatever your team is lacking. Fills in some niches if you need him to.
Cons: Fully Equipped Onion Knight is Floor 8 and even then isn't that great. Having only one class per floor is a bit limiting at times.

I was actually thinking about something along those lines.  To be a bit more limiting, (and hence possibly qualify for a lower point value, also to differentiate from FF5 Bartz,) I had 5 FF3 archetypes under consideration; 4 per quadrant plus the Freelancer->Onion Knight path.   

Under my original design, I also had a "minimum distance" requirement, limiting inter-floor class changes to a 20 Job Level Range, with the following exceptions:  Black Mage to Evoker (30 Job Levels) or Geomancer (40 JLs), Viking to Black Belt (40 JLs) 

The justification for this imposition on Luneth as opposed to Bartz is that FF3's Job System had a method of restricting job hopping by imposing a "class change lag" on characters learning new jobs.  The less related an unlearned job was from their previous one, the longer the lag lasted.  Bartz had no such restriction, plus he could transfer an ability between jobs.  Luneth couldn't do that. 

Then again, that would've set up a situation similar to Ramza's.  i.e. having to take Thief for a floor to access Dark Knight or Ninja.  Or Scholar to get to Bard to get to Devout.  You get the idea.

This requirement can be thrown out for simplicity, but I wanted it in as a strength-limiting factor, (i.e. if you want to be a Devout, you have to spend 1 floor each as a Scholar and a Bard,) and, hence, a possible justification to cut the rating.  If you want more info on the "Quadrants", just ask.


Anyway here is a chart summary of what I would enable per floor:

F    Area    Crystal  W  B  Summon
1   Cannan   Wind   1   2   
2   Ship      Wind   3   3   
3   Hein   Fire      3   3
4   Amur   Water   3   3      
5   Underwater      5   5   Up to and including Titan      
6   Shadow      7   7   Odin
7   Eureka   Earth   8   8   Leviathan and Bahamut
8   Endgame   (Pre-Bonus Dungeon)

The locales are basically where you are at that point in the game.  Numbers under White and Black indicate spell levels sold either at that time or soon thereafter (Ship vs Village of the Ancients, and Forbidden Land Eureka)

As for the Onion Gear, I would have had that be on Floor 9 because the gear are steals of Bonus Dungeon enemies.   Then again, Bartz has Necromancer on Floor 8 instead of Floor 9, so, meh.   Besides, Onion Knight's no good until Floor 10 anyway.  Job Level 99 Gear would be restricted to Floor 10.

For Freelancer, Red Mage, Sage, and Onion Knight, choose 3 spells per level available for each floor.  You may change spells between floors, but not during a floor.

Additionally, here is a schematic of what the Geomancer would have at his/her disposal per floor:

3   Ice Pillar   Whirlpool         Wind Slash    (Shipboard)
4   Wind Slash   Ice Storm     (Standard Overworld)
5   Ice Pillar   Whirlpool         Wind Slash   (Under the Sea)      
6   Earthquake   Close-In         Wind Slash   (Cave of Shadows)
7   Wind Slash   Ice Pillar   Flame Burst   Earthquake   Shadowflare  (The Dark World, being Endgame)
8   Ice Pillar   Whirlpool         Wind Slash  (The Bonus Dungeon is Underwater!)
9   Blackhole   Shadowflare         Wind Slash  (Eureka!  I just couldn't resist keeping this set, even if I had to move it!)
10   Wind Slash   Ice Pillar   Flame Burst   Earthquake   Shadowflare  (The Dark World, being Endgame)

Each of the above has an equal chance of happening on that particular floor, except for the italicized, which have half of a chance.  Meaning that most floor sets have a 40/40/20 split on Geomancer abilities; Exceptions being 5 (50/50) and 7&10 (22.5/22.5/22.5/22.5/10)

As an alternate, I could put Eureka on Floor 7, duplicate the Overworld set on Floor 9, and keep the rest.  If you must restrict Geomancer to a single floor, I would first recommend the Dark World set (most versatile, plus fits the Dungeon Motif, and we can lock-out magics that targets would absorb), second preference to the Standard Overworld set (for obvious reasons, plus simplistic 50/50 split).



Slightly off present topic; I think that I saw that Gau was (relatively) recently removed.  Did he have a schedule of Rages while he was in the Dungeon?  (If you had no takers, I think that would be a key reason.)

Also, do you think you could add a "Not Ranked" (Earlygame) option to Floor 2?

[DjinnAndTonic]

Under my original design, I also had a "minimum distance" requirement, limiting inter-floor class changes to a 20 Job Level Range, with the following exceptions:  Black Mage to Evoker (30 Job Levels) or Geomancer (40 JLs), Viking to Black Belt (40 JLs) 

The justification for this imposition on Luneth as opposed to Bartz is that FF3's Job System had a method of restricting job hopping by imposing a "class change lag" on characters learning new jobs.  The less related an unlearned job was from their previous one, the longer the lag lasted.  Bartz had no such restriction, plus he could transfer an ability between jobs.  Luneth couldn't do that. 

Then again, that would've set up a situation similar to Ramza's.  i.e. having to take Thief for a floor to access Dark Knight or Ninja.  Or Scholar to get to Bard to get to Devout.  You get the idea.

This requirement can be thrown out for simplicity, but I wanted it in as a strength-limiting factor, (i.e. if you want to be a Devout, you have to spend 1 floor each as a Scholar and a Bard,) and, hence, a possible justification to cut the rating.  If you want more info on the "Quadrants", just ask.

I think you could throw out the job buffers and still be okay. The justification for this is that Neph has Luneth restricted to one job per floor? I suppose it's inferred that he takes care of the jobchange penalty between floors so there's no reason to further penalize his joblevels.

re: charts.
Nice work on mapping out the skill availability times, it fits with how I remember the gameflow. Simplified Geomancer skill availability is nice, too.

If we were taking a vote, I'd give mine to this interpretation of Luneth at the previously prescibed point value (3.0).

Also, do you think you could add a "Not Ranked" (Earlygame) option to Floor 2?

This has its ups and downs. First of all, the downs: The Dungeon has fluctuating votership issues even with only ranked games. A floor like this could easily mean only one or two people were even -capable- of voting considering the number of different games/characters someone would need to know. (5 on the player team, and at least 5 more for the enemy teams).
But the ups are: More variety is always good. Since it would be a floor choice, no team would be -forced- into throwing themselves upon the mercy of lower voting totals. Also, it's Floor 2, so chances are most teams would make it past this floor anyway.
Having some Not Ranked duellers in the Dungeon would be good exposure for potential new ranks, similar to the NR tourney itself.
I'd support it if Neph was interested. I trust him not to choose something like Beyond the Beyond, Hoshigami, or really obscure Japan-only games. ...Or something like all three Atelier Iris games on one floor.


As a side note, I was wondering if we could see a Smash Bros.-themed floor. I don't know if Neph's already done something like this, but it seems like a pretty good one for voter totals. (It could even out a Not Ranked floor).  There's already plenty of ranked duellers that are in SSBB anyway.

Off hand, I can think of Mario, Bowser, Princess Toadstool, Ness, Jeff, Pikachu, Charizard, Venusaur, Blastoise, Mewtwo, Ike, Lyn, Isaac, and Sonic even has his own RPG now, so...

-Djinn

[Nephrite]

As a side note, I was wondering if we could see a Smash Bros.-themed floor. I don't know if Neph's already done something like this, but it seems like a pretty good one for voter totals. (It could even out a Not Ranked floor).  There's already plenty of ranked duellers that are in SSBB anyway.

Off hand, I can think of Mario, Bowser, Princess Toadstool, Ness, Jeff, Pikachu, Charizard, Venusaur, Blastoise, Mewtwo, Ike, Lyn, Isaac, and Sonic even has his own RPG now, so...

-Djinn

For what it's worth, there is a Not Ranked floor (Shale fought it, it's floor 5) and I could probably manage a SSB-style floor, I'll think about where to put it.

[Taishyr]

I approve of Chaz/Kyra/Yukari. Not sure if I see Mitsuru/Aigis as needing to go down to 2.0 or not but they'd be neat options. Luneth... sure, if we've got job options outlined.

[Clear Tranquil]

I could have sworn I already posted on the materia post but I guess I didn't >.> Anyway good ideas, I like what you came up with Tai.

Question: How would the Counter materia work for character that already have counters like Peppita, etc - would they get a double counter i.e double damage?

Here's my ideas -

Increase HP damage Materia - Increases HP damage of physical attacks by 50% (90% when mastered) : 1.0/1.5
Peep Materia: Increases the activation rate of Stun/Peep type skills : 2.0/2.5 

[Sir Donald 3.2]

Yeah.  I just wanted an NR floor of earlier-game characters, plus possible new PCs.

Here's a sample battle of what I had in mind, around battle 6, 7, or 8:

Rydia's Mom:  You still wish to go on?  Then I must!
Misty:  Starmie, help her out!

Mist Dragon (Boss Form)
Misty's Starmie (FR/LG version; Any Stadium version if you think that Swift+Water Pulse wouldn't cut it on Floor 2)

In this case, two early-game bosses with a common theme.  I would've wanted a third member for this set though...  (Different themes in different battles, BTW.  I had in mind a combo of Lete River Ultros and either Croco from SMRPG as the Boss on this Floor (a "Seafood Soup" room), but Ultros is ranked.  Same with adding Ike's sister to the example battle above.)

In that same vein, I'm wondering if the Kanto Starters should be restricted to their SSBB formes on a Brawl Floor (i.e. instead of Blastoise and Venusaur, we get Squirtle and Ivysaur).  Of course, I would combine them and Charizard with Pikachu, so stat nerfs would be moderated with a x-on-4 formation.

I'm also thinking that a NR would be possible on Floor 9, but then the reasons these guys would be NR would be different from the Floors 2 & 5 NRs.  (One word:  Necron.)

[SnowFire]

Various random ideas and comments:

Sir Donald's FF3 notes on Luneth: My impression was always that Floor 6 was the endgame, and Floor 7 was endgame/postgame (as in the final boss / very last dungeon).  So Earth Crystal on Floor 7 seems to screw those classes over too much.  Even treating Floor 7 as the last dungeon, you can find the Earth Crystal in the next-to-last dungeon, and furthermore you can go there considerably earlier than when you're required to.  I'd want to toss the Earth Crystal jobs a bone and say they're floor 5 myself; floor 6 is also passable.  I at least (and I assume others) hold FF3DS classes to its silly JP system, meaning that if you do want to use the Earth Crystal classes your damage will take a serious hit for awhile before you can build your JP back up.  (While something like Warrior Luneth is probably JP lvl. 99 by Floor 6.)

Re FEOK: Regardless of when the Onion equips are available (I'd say Floor 8, too myself, postgame - this isn't Star Ocean 3 with a huge multipart postgame), Onion Knights suck until they're JL 90+ apparently.  Meaning they're nigh useless in the Dungeon due to never being able to level that high on any kind of reasonable schedule...  just like in game.

Sir Donald's comment on Gau: Not sure a schedule of Rages would help.  Rages aren't a treasure box you go open up; getting every Rage as soon as it's available would mean going to the Veldt and cleaning it out repeatedly during the game, despite the fact that you'll have seen most of the enemies already.  Getting the last few rages would be seriously annoying *each time*.  Furthermore Gau is a headache to interpret in his dungeon, since especially on the later floors he has 50% odds of basically "do something awesome, but no guarantee what his target is" or "waste the turn."  I think it'd be best to keep Gau out.

Ramza: I notice that Dancer is listed as a legal job for Ramza.  This an accident or meant seriously (i.e. by Ramza we really meant "arbitrary FFT character")?  Also, this is probably a question to get slapped with, but if you made Ramza a mediator and somehow prevailed anyway, could you disable dungeon inhabitants then invite-spam them until they join your team and break everything?  Or are we going to assume that everyone gets a free Finger Guard?  (Even if held to a 5 character limit, the versatility a few recruits would add would be awesome.)  (Okay this is not a question, more like a cool thought, so yeah.  Finger Guards for everyone.)

A few characters who seem to be a bit overpriced and aren't used much...

Too high a cost:
Jessica at 2.0.  She's more durable than Rena, but neither will do much damage in the lategame, and her team-healing is worse than Rena's (a major issue in L:SSSC is Jessica not full-healing your party, while Rena can get up to 75% or so healing for everyone).  The Regen litany is not that amazing in the Dungeon.  I'd say 1.5?
Lucca at 2.0.  She's a total slug at 6 speed until she gets the Taban Vest (wherein she's a partial slug at 8 speed), and around Floor 5 or so the Taban Vest starts being a major defensive hindrance.  Even once she gets the Taban Suit (for Speed 9 against a higher average due to Robo getting a boost and Magus existing), she's still not fast.  Sure, she's got damage and MT Sleep, but the low speed + low durability combo is not good for the dungeon.  I'd say 1.5.
FF5 Mystic Knight at 2.5: Takes a turn to get going.  Deadly.  Maybe worth 2.0?
Marle at 2.0.  Also a total slug.  She'd be worth it if her healing was MT, but it's not (unless you also use Crono, and then you're slowing him down too).  Sure she can Haste people to win stallfests and has Provoke, but slow + bad defense is still a really bad combination.
Larsa at 1.0: As mentioned earlier in the thread, Larsa is comparable to Rand, who's a 0.5 and still not often used.

Of course that's just me.

[Nephrite]

Various random ideas and comments:

You are right about Ramza. I'm going to drop Dancer, I didn't even realize that one.

Also, your points on the others is a fair one and I'll probably make those changes. Those are all kind of borderline ones that I usually defaulted to "too high" than "too low."

[Dark Holy Elf]

Re Invitation... well, at the very least, I'd let it snag the character recruited as a guest for the rest of the fight. You could argue the rest of the floor.

It would be neat if you could even pick up a character permanently this way... but that would badly need balance. Easiest thing I can think of is force the team to remain under 11 points... if they want a new recruit, they need to kick someone else out. New characters could use their dungeon score if one exists, or simply one based on their DL division otherwise (e.g. 4=Godlike, 3=Heavy, etc.). Granted, this idea may be just a little tooo crazy (and likely impractical), but it's worth a thought.

[superaielman]

Invite's also only good for generics as well. It's a nice thought but I can't see it working out well. (But damn would it be cool)

[DjinnAndTonic]

Maybe you could make it a Floor feature instead of a Ramza Mediator-only thing?

For example, you could have a Floor option where you get a choose any non-charm/invite-immune PC from the previous floors you've fought to join you for a particularly hard dungeon. The Invite Floor would be accordingly more difficult, but would be a fun challenge. I'd peg this as a Floor 4/5 option so that you have enough choices to pick a cool invite-able character from.

I suppose bosses and temps could be invited, too... though that might break things too much?

If you make Floor 5 the Invite Floor, for example, though, it adds an extra layer of strategy to which floors you choose up to that point so that you have a good selection of Invite-ables.

After the Invite Floor, I imagine the extra character would have to leave...

I suppose you could also make this an Aftergame floor, too. Although at that point you might just want to give the Player an extra point or two to add another member to their team or replace an existing one...?

-Djinn

[Bardiche]

Nina4 might benefit from 0.5 point less. Her MT healing is gained pretty late (floor 3-4) and she'll probably want to spend most her time casting Heal/Rejuvinate/Vitalize rather than actually fight. (since Vigor is level 39. That's... floor 7-8?)

I shall also propose the following:

Ryu3 (3.0) (NO DRAGON FORMS)
Pros: Durable Healer. Bonebreak!
Cons: That's all he is! Bonebreak's gained late and can only be used once per Floor.

... yeah idk i just want a durable Healer. All Healers have "FRAIL" listed and I'm like, "no plz ;_;"

[superaielman]

Try Maxim or Jerin for that. Or hell, Aeris isn't bad on the durablity front. She's a good value at 1.0.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Nina4 might benefit from 0.5 point less. Her MT healing is gained pretty late (floor 3-4) and she'll probably want to spend most her time casting Heal/Rejuvinate/Vitalize rather than actually fight. (since Vigor is level 39. That's... floor 7-8?)

Nina4 is fine as a 3.0. Insanely fast healer with passable MT damage until lategame, gets status immunity, ridiculous resources and even starts off somewhat Runelike in that she has high starting stats for the averages. She gets Vitalize at the floors you're kneejerking, which are the floors where it starts to matter - so, still fine. She's even surprisingly annoying to pin down and kill, which is very important for a healer. 2.5 for Nina4 would be on the cheap side, and hard to justify. She's a healer that can actually contribute for MT offense rather well, and the fact she sorta wanes for that in the very endgame doesn't mitigate how strongly that helps in the middle - I'm saying as someone who used her before, and found her worth every decimal measure of those three points.

[SnowFire]

Hmm.  Re Recent changes:
Rena at .5 seems pretty awesome.  She's got various status immunities and elemental resists which help make her good.  Not saying this is wrong, but as noted before I was seriously considering using Rena at 1.0 (even though I tossed that team out partially due to Rena not being good enough).  She strikes me as in the .7-.8 area, so it's tricky, but something to keep an eye on.  (Edit: On the other hand, her healing does tail off a good bit by the end, and it is slow.  So yeah.  I was assuming she could maintain ~70% MT healing, but it seems from the stat topic by the end she's at only ~45% MT healing, which is meh.)

Now that Lyn has dropped to 2.0, Marisa at 2.0 is nearly pointless, since Lyn is almost always better.  She's probably a 1.5 anyway, or maybe even a 1.0.  She's good once she A) upgrades and B) has storebought Killing Edges to use, both of which don't happen until ~floor 4-5 or so.  Even then, some people seem to force her crits to come to turn 2 anyway.  Until the magical crit factory starts, she's dodgy but has below average strength, so even when she doubles she's not THAT scary.  And as noted her team-based skills are non-existent.  On the other hand she's fast, and that's always awesome, and obviously works great with attack buffs.

Secret of Mana guidelines: Dryad on Floor 7 seems a little harsh to me.  You get Dryad in the third-to-the-last dungeon of the game in a not particularly long game, and normally (at least in my view) Floor 7 is only the final dungeon.  Even if you equally split the game into 7 parts, Dryad is at best on the dividing line.  I'd recommend Floor 6.

DQ8 notes:
This is totally optional and up to Nephrite, but some notes / suggested standards on DQ8 characters and when they get their skills, since I was researching the topic anyway:

Floor 1: Farebury, Alexandria, Maella Abbey
Floor 2: Ascantha, Pickham, Trodain
Floor 3: Moleworld, Ocean, Argonia
Floor 4: Dark Ruins, Arcadia, Orkutsk
Floor 5: Dragon Graveyard, Pirate's Cove
Floor 6: Empychuu, World of Darkness
Floor 7: Black Citadel
Floor 8: Early postgame
Floor 9: End postgame
Floor 10: Gratuitous overlevelling

DQ8 is a freakin' long game, so each floor is actually a considerable number of dungeons.  Only exception is Floor 7, which seems to be the final dungeon / very early postgame traditionally.  Also, DQ8 hands out early levels like candy, then slows down, hence the high level gain on floor 1.  As a final note, from a very literalistic perspective Jessica and Angelo might be slightly screwed on Floor 1 due to technically joining with 0 skill points but not at level 1, but that's clearly an artifact of how the game works - if J&A had joined earlier, clearly they would have started gaining skill points earlier.  As such I've mildly bumped Angelo's SP from what you might expect on floor 1 to reflect an earlier join, though not later on (the low-skill point join should be punished, but not THAT much).  I've included the literalist version in parentheses for those who'd take Angelo's skill points exactly at level 15.  The skill point gain is the same every game apparently, so the totals are not approximations (though if you adjust the level, obviously the SP will move up or down with it).

Code: [Select]

Floor Level Guv Yangus Jessica Angelo
1 ~15 38 68 45 18 (10)
2 ~20 63 87 67 33
3 ~26 95 106 97 55
4 ~31 122 137 133 83
5 ~36 158 176 169 116
6 ~39 181 195 198 140
7 ~43 209 219 225 175
8 ~47 229 231 238 204
9 ~53 243 249 247 233
10 65? 268 266 270 266

Other notes: Your level will cap the maximum amount of skill points you can toss into a single category, so no 100-SP skills until Floor 6.  Also, skill seeds exist.  In game you'll feed them to Angelo because he's the one who needs them the most, but probably the fairest thing to do in the DL is to distribute them equally among non-Yangus characters (Yangus gets plenty of skill points but only needs one tree mastered so it's a total waste to give them to him), so by the final floors it would be reasonable to add +10 or so to everyone's skill total (except Yangus).  EDIT: Just to be clear, the table above doesn't include skill seeds at all.  I knew this would be something with different interpretations, so it's been left out completely.

As for level dependent skills:
Guv:
Floor 1: Heal, Squelch (Cures poison), Sizz
Floor 2: Midheal, Sizzle
Floor 3: Fullheal (?)
Floor 4: Zing, Kasizzle
Floor 10: Dragon Soul

Fullheal is level 27, but throwing Guv a bone here.

Jessica:
Floor 1: Frizz, Sap, Crack, Sizz, Snooze, Bang
Floor 2: Crackle, Oomph, Sizzle
Floor 3: Frizzle, Boom, Insulate
Floor 4: Kaboom, Kafrizzle, Kasizzle, Kacrackle

Angelo:
Floor 1: Heal, Woosh, Buff, Tingle (anti-sleep/paralysis), Kabuff, Midheal
Floor 2: Whack, Swoosh, Zing
Floor 3: Thwack, Fullheal
Floor 4: Multiheal, Kaswoosh (?)
Floor 5: Kazing

Kaswoosh is level 32.

Also edit: Decided to include some "default" dungeon builds for skill points  (Obviously dungeon runners can specify their own, but as a starting point.)

Guv:
Guv almost always wants to go Swords & Courage, but the order is not clear.  It's also possible to run into Boomerangs to grab Attack +5 (12 SP), Power Throw (18SP, no attack decrease on later targets), and Attack +10 (22SP) on the cheap.  Guv can also grab Defending Champion for *super Defends* off 11 Fisticuffs if you have some Firefly style effect.  Fear.  A sample:
F1: Swords 22, Spears 7, Courage 9 (Dragon Slash, Flame Slash, Atk +10 for Sword; Atk +5 for Spear and Mercurial Thrust (initiative spear thwack).
F2: Swords 22, Spears 7, Courage 34 (Tingle, 2 points away from Fizzle (Silence, possibly legal w/skill seed?))
F3: Swords 22, Spears 7, Courage 66 (Fizzle, Zap, MP costs 75%)
F4: Swords 33, Spears 7, Courage 82 (Kamikaze, Omniheal, Metal Slash)
F5: Swords 61, Spears 7, Courage 90 (MP costs 50%, Sword Critical Hit Up, Falcon Slash)
F6: Swords 74, Spears 7, Courage 100 (Gigaslash, Kazap, Sword Attack +25)
F7: Swords 100, Spears 9, Courage 100 (Miracle Slash, Gigagash)

Jessica:
Staves are definitely the default choice with Jessica in the dungeon; lots of good stuff there, and powers up Magic Burst much later with the MP boost.  Jessica also probably wants to dip a bit into Whips for the mighty Twin Dragon Lash.  Once Staves starts maxing out, you have two choices for long-term investments at 100 SP: Sex Appeal to eventually get Hustle Dance (mehish MT healing, but it's free) which also gets Kasnooze at 68 points or Fisticuffs for the mighty Magic Burst.  Note that Magic Burst obviously still has its big weakness come into play in the Dungeon, but if you can status out the next match, Jessica can sit there with a staff out and slowly regen all her MP while your opponent is helpless.
F1: Whips 23, Staves 22 (Attack +10, Whiplash, Twin Dragon Lash; Accelerate, Kasap, Max MP+20, Bounce)
F2: Whips 23, Staves 44 (Magic Barrier, Max MP+50)
F3: Whips 23, Staves 74 (Caduceus, MP Recovery)
F4: Whips 23, Staves 87, Other 23 (Max MP +100) (Running into the level cap here.)
F5: Whips 23, Staves 97, Other 49
F6: Whips 23, Staves 100, Other 75 (Kazing)
F7: Whips 23, Staves 100, Other 100, OtherOther 2 (Hustle Dance / Magic Burst as noted above.)

Angelo:
Uh, you're probably on your own here.  All of Angelo's non-Fisticuffs skill sets have worth; probably depends on the team which way you'd build him.  Something to be said for all the options, though I suppose the major divide is between Swords (get at least SOME damage on Angelo) or Staves.  I'm assuming a supporty-Staff type here.  
F1: Swords 4, Staff 11, Charisma 3 (Swd. Attack +5, Dazzle (Blind), Fizzle (Silence), Bounce, Squelch (anti-Poison)
F2: Swords 9, Staff 17, Charisma 7 (Flame Slash, Drain Magic, Fuddle (Confusion))
F3: Swords 9, Staff 29, Charisma 7 (Max MP+20)
F4: Swords 9, Staff 57, Charisma 7 (Caduceus, Kathwack)
F5: Swords 15, Bows 18, Staff 66, Charisma 7 (Oomph, Swd. Attack +10, Sandman's Arrow, Cherub's Arrow (MP-healing))
F6: Swords 15, Bows 18, Staff 80, Charisma 17 (Max MP+50,  Sarcastic Snigger (YES))
F7: Swords 15, Bows 18, Staff 80, Charisma 52 (Angel Eyes, Divine Intervention, Ban Dance (insta-win vs. FFT Dancer?), Chilling Chuckle)
F8: Swords 15, Bows 18, Staff 80, Charisma 81 (Kafuddle, Charming Look(paralysis+damage))

(Angelo's 100 Staff ability is MP recovery, which would be more relevant if Angelo could also have 100 Swords and be spamming Lightning Storm, which is pretty MP-intensive.)

EDIT: I have added a level to floor 7, with Neph's blessing.  This avoids brutal respect splits based on whether Skill Seeds are allowed or not - Guv definitely gets Gigagash, Jessica gets whatever her second 100 SP skill is (Magic Burst / Hustle Dance / Kazing).

[Talaysen]

In game you'll feed them to Angelo because he's the one who needs them the most, but probably the fairest thing to do in the DL is to distribute them equally among non-Yangus characters (Yangus gets plenty of skill points but only needs one tree mastered so it's a total waste to give them to him), so by the final floors it would be reasonable to add +10 or so to everyone's skill total (except Yangus).

Hell no to leaving Yangus out here.  Split them between everyone if you're going to allow them at all.

[SnowFire]

Well, I didn't include them *at all*, so it's not overly relevant.  Obviously knock the skill boost down somewhat if you split it evenly.

[Nephrite]

Those are some good ideas. I'll probably just drop Marisa since with Lyn she's really not that needed. Dryad is another good point.

[dude789]

I've got a couple more ideas that I think would be good puny options

Ghost, Final Fantasy 6
Pros: Perfect accuracy ID is a steal for .5 points.
Cons: Can only use his ID once a floor and he is removed from the party after using it. Aside from bad damage, he can do nothing else.

Aguro, Lufia
Pros: Solid physical damage and durability.
Cons: Slow and he has no other beside physical damge. Does not take magic well.

Butterfree, Pokemon
Pros: Has a decent choice of accurate status effects to choose from. Pretty strong for the first few floors.
Cons: Becomes very frail by the end. Has lots of weaknesses to very common elements.

[Sir Donald 3.2]

Which form would Butterfree have on Floor 1?  Caterpie (Tackle and String Shot FTW!) or Metapod (Harden > Reno + Rufus!!!!111  actually, Caterpie would be an excellent pyramid breaker )  Just not sure we should start Butterfree as Butterfree...  Floor 2 Butterfree's fine, though.

[Bardiche]

I typically have a Butterfree before I face Brock, though, and that's about the earliest point you can get a Caterpie. Just a tad bit earlier. Think Floor 1 Butterfree's fine.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Ghost is a REALLY cool idea. A perfect example of a PC concept that would never work in the DL, but actually has some use as a Dungeon player.

A little outclassed by the other .5's, but it could be really useful for some teams?

-Djinn

[hinode]

I'd like to suggest Ditto.  The ability to transform into a copy of any team mate or enemy would be rather cute, though it still carries the usual Ditto liabilities (slow, frail, doesn't copy HP, only 5 PP of each move) so it probably isn't worth more than 1.0.  The only issue I can see is deciding which moves to copy over, but if people can agree on that it seems like it'd be a cute novelty pickup that might be worthwhile for certain teams.

[dude789]

I'd like to suggest Ditto.  The ability to transform into a copy of any team mate or enemy would be rather cute, though it still carries the usual Ditto liabilities (slow, frail, doesn't copy HP, only 5 PP of each move) so it probably isn't worth more than 1.0.  The only issue I can see is deciding which moves to copy over, but if people can agree on that it seems like it'd be a cute novelty pickup that might be worthwhile for certain teams.

Ditto would be interestring, but there are some decisions that would have to be made. 5 PP could be an advantage for moves like Ryu 2's dragons summons or Yuri's Seraphic Radiance moves.

Also, I think it would be best if the ghost came back at a recovery point if he had used possess earlier.

[Nephrite]

Well, we originally had Gogo, who is sort of like Ditto in effect. I could stand to have him back in (Since he's rather significantly different from FF5 Mime, although if I added Gogo the other Mime could probably just go away)

If I added him (Or Ditto) I'd probably make the team in question choose the spells / abilities per floor since that seems the fairest option. I am unsure how I would see Ryu2's abilities working with Ditto... that'd be something to think about.