Author Topic: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Brainstorming Topic! (Read 144054 times)

DjinnAndTonic · « **Reply #200 on:** January 25, 2009, 03:24:52 AM »

I mapped out some of the more viable suggestions that looked like they needed more concrete explanations:

Serge (w/ White elements, no Lynx)
Chrono Cross

Floor 1:
Photon Ray x2 *Lv1 White attack spell

Floor 2:
Photon Ray (storebought)
Revive x2 *Revival + 25% healing
Turn White x1 *Gives opponent innate resistance to White, weakness to Black
Meteorite (storebought) *Lv2 White attack spell
x5WhiteOut (storebought) *ITEM, heals Blind, godly.
RecoverAll x1 *MT Heal (Unsure of percentage, says 'Medium')
(SERGE TECH) Dash&Slash x1

Floor 3:
Photon Ray (storebought)
Revive x2
Turn White x1
Meteorite (storebought)
x5WhiteOut (storebought)
RecoverAll (storebought)
Anti-Black x1 *ST, Seals use of all Dark-elemental skills/spells
MeteorShower x1 *Lv4 White attack spell
(SERGE TECH) Luminaire x1

Floor 4:
Photon Ray (storebought)
Revive x3
Turn White (storebought)
Meteorite (storebought)
x5WhiteOut (storebought)
RecoverAll (storebought)
Anti-Black x1
PhotonBeam (storebought) *Lv3 White attack spell
MeteorShower (storebought)
Purify (storebought) *Heals all negative status
x5Panacea (storebought) *ITEM Heals all negative status
StrongMinded (storebought) *Magic Up
WeakMinded (storebought) *Magic Down

Floor 5:
All of the above, plus:
HolyLight x1 *Lv5 White attack spell, MT (also OHKOs Undead)
Magnify (storebought) *Field Effect, all magic deals 1.5x? damage
MagNegate (storebought) *ST, all magic deals 0x damage

Floor 6:
HolyLight x2 (assuming you use a HolyLight trap on Miguel)
FullRevival x1 *Revival with 100% healing
Ultranova x1 *Lv6 White attack spell, MT
(SERGE TECH) Flying Arrow x1

Floor 7:
HolyHealing x1 *MT full healing/status healing
Saints x1 (from the Sky Dragon) *Summon, requires full white field. MT Healing and White Damage

Notes: With Elements, Serge gets some interesting Magic manipulation tricks with Strong/Weak-Minded, plus a Field Effect to increase ALL spell damage by 1.5. MagNegate is an ST Magical invincibility move that he can get from the store. An interesting magical spoiler or great accessory to a magic-heavy team. He also gets decent durability and physical/magical damage. As well as CC accessories. Pretty awesome Heavy/Low Godlike?

Feena:
Grandia

Floor 1: Knife, Whip, Fire
Knifehurl
Randomhurl
Paralyze Whip
Burn
Burnflame

Floor 2: Knife, Whip, Fire; 1 choice of Water, Earth, or Wind
Burn, Burnflame
Burnflare
Fire Whip

If Water:
Heal
Snooze
Alheal

If Earth:
Diggin'
Tremor
WOW!

If Wind:
Howl
Runner
Howlslash

Floor 3: Knife, Whip, Fire; 2 of Water, Earth, or Wind
Burn, Burnflame, Burnflare

If Water/Wind:
Heal, Snooze, Alheal
Howl, Runner, Howlslash
Crackle
Shhh! *inflicts Silence
Crackling
Healer
Fiora *inflicts Moveblock
Zap! Whip

If Water/Earth:
Heal, Snooze, Alheal
Diggin', Tremor, WOW!
Healer
Cure *heals POIZN
Refresh *heals Moveblock
Speedy *Agility up

If Earth/Wind:
Diggin', Tremor, WOW!
Howl, Runner, Howlslash
Shhh!
Zap! Whip

Floor 4: Knife, Whip, Fire, Water, Earth, Wind
Burn, Burnflame, Burnflare
Heal, Snooze, Alheal, Healer
Diggin', Tremor, WOW!
Howl, Runner, Howlslash, Shhh!
Crackle, Crackling, Fiora
Cure, Refresh, Speedy
Resurrect
Halvah

Floor 5:
DragonZap!
Protect *temporary invincibility for one ally
AlHealer+

Floor 6:
Tree of Life
End of the World

Floor 7:
Time Gate

Notes: While Feena may be able to build up the necessary skill levels to -learn- a spell (say Burnflare on Floor 2) by a certain floor, it does not mean she has the MP to use it, or use it repeatedly. Time Gate is, as super pointed out, probably a much later Floor than 7, though I was just throwing the spell to her early. This is just a guideline anyway. If you build her correctly, she can be a potent earlygame assistant and picks up again in Floor 6. Late revival for a healer and not full kind of sucks, though. 2.0-2.5?

Kratos:
Weapon Equips:
Last Fencer Atk 920, Added damage to humans
Excalibur Atk 800, Added damage to humans
Crystal Dagger   Atk 750, Acc 30, Added damage to beasts, Small TP regeneration
Laser Blade Atk 710, Atk Light, Added damage to humans
Gladius Atk 620, Acc 20, Added damage to beasts
Ether Sword Atk 590, Added damage to humans
Flame Dagger    Atk 530, Acc 15, Atk Fire, Added damage to beasts
Ice Coffin    Atk 500, Atk Ice, Added damage to humans
Lightning Sword Atk 470, Atk Lightning, Added damage to humans
Sand Saber    Atk 440, Atk Earth, Added damage to humans
Assault Dagger   Atk 410, Acc 15, Atk Wind, Added damage to beasts
Aqua Brand    Atk 350, Atk Water, Added damage to humans
Silver Sword    Atk 265, Added damage to undead
Earth Dagger    Atk 250, Acc 10, Atk Earth, Added damage to beasts
Hydra Dagger    Atk 220, Acc 10, Atk Water, Added damage to beasts
Steel Sword Atk 160, Added damage to humans
Stiletto    Atk 130, Acc 10, Added damage to beasts
Long Sword    Atk 85, Added damage to humans

Floor 1:
Demon Fang (base tech)
Sonic Thrust (base tech)
Fire Ball (spell)
First Aid *30% ST Healing
Wind Blade (spell)
Stone Blast (spell)

Floor 2:
Lightning
Double Demon Fang/Fierce Demon Fang (tech)
Air Thrust (spell)
Thunder Blade (spell)
x1 EXGem 1: Strength (Str+5%) or Magical (Wis+5%) or Evasion (Eva+5%) or Appeal (Raise Unison Attack Guage by Taunting, useless)

Floor 3:
Light Spear (tech)
Healing Wind *30% MT Healing
Hurricane Thrust/Super Sonic Thrust (tech)
Eruption
x2 EXGem 1
x1 EXGem 2: Spirits (MaxTP+5%), Vitality (MaxHP+5%), Dash (Faster movement), Personal (Kratos regens HP for the first 10 seconds of each battle, so maybe 3 turns?)
EXSkill "Skill Boost" (Increases skills' TP cost but also power) (uses Magical+Spirits)

Floor 4:
Grave
Lighning Blade (tech)
Hell Pyre (tech)
x4 EXGem 1
x3 EXGem 2
x1 EXGem 3: Slasher (melee combo increases to 6 hits), Turnless (can string skills together in any order), Well Guard (damage incurred while guarding is reduced, useless), Eternal (no effect, but creates cool EXSkill combos)
EXSkill "EX Attack" (increases damage to guarding enemies) (Dash+Personal)
EXSkill "Chivalry" (increases all of Kratos' stats for each additional female in party) (Strength+Slasher)
EXSkill "Healing" (Regen in battle while not attacking)

Floor 5:
Victory Light Spear/Light Spear Cannon (Arcane tech)
Healing Stream *45% MT Healing
x4 EXGem 1
x4 EXGem 2
x2 EXGem 3
x1 EXGem 4: Immunity (fixed probability of avoiding status), Speed Spell (Faster casting times for starter spells), Sky High (airborne melee combo! mostly useless), Spell Charge (use turn to charge a spell, stop before casting, activate as part of a combo, interesting)
EXSkill "Guard Status" (Status immunity) (Eternal+Immunity)

Floor 6:
Demon Spear (Arcane tech)
Super Lightning Blade (Arcane tech)
x4 EXGem 1
x4 EXGem 2
x2 EXGem 3
x2 EXGem 4

Floor 7:
Judgment

Floor 1, his best damage is going to alternate between PhysicalChain->SonicThrust and StoneBlast. On Floors 2 and 3, the magic is clearly stronger, except for possibly against humans opponents towards the end of Floor 3. Floor 4/5 he's lagging and his best damage is vs.Humans with a reordered skill combo. Floor 6 his physical damage picks up again vs.Humans with more combo options. Floor 7, his physical damage is still pretty good and he picks up a good magical damage option, too. From Floor 5 on, he should be making himself Status Immune and occasionally acting as a backup healer. "Chivalry" is an interesting EXSkill and I need to look into how much the stats increase on it.

superaielman · « **Reply #201 on:** January 25, 2009, 03:27:13 AM »

Time Gate's floor 10. That is way, way past endgame.

DjinnAndTonic · « **Reply #202 on:** January 25, 2009, 03:48:05 AM »

Super: Point, but it seems like something that Neph would toss a Feena-player if they made it to the floor where he starts handing out goodies.

DjinnAndTonic · « **Reply #203 on:** January 25, 2009, 06:52:23 AM »

Just a more in-depth description of Disgaea Dungeon ideas.

Prinny:
Prinnies cannot Lift/Throw. They equip Monster weapons. Floor 1, they have Prinny Barrage, a cheap physical tech. Floor 2, they get Prinny Dance (30% chance of inflincting Poison, Paralyze, Forget). Floor 3 they get Prinny Bomb, a physical fire tech. Floor 5/6 they get Pringer Beam, one of the few physical Star-elemental techs in the game.
Prinnies are special in Disgaea because they are living weapons. If you throw a Prinny at an enemy, they explode, causing splash damage to all nearby enemies. The damage the explosion does is always half of a Prinny's maxHP (so it's most useful to Throw a low-health Prinny). Exploded Prinnies cannot be revived in battle. I would allow any character with hands to be able to Throw Prinnies. Light.

Disgaea Ninja:
Increases in stats pretty linearly. Outfitted with Fist Skills to keep up with the damage curve. All of the Fist Weaponskills are strictly physical damage to a single target except for the final skill, Big Bang, which hits 9 enemies and is a Fire-aligned physical attack.
Ninjas are notable for having a high Evasion stat (called Speed in Dis, but it acts as Evade). Their evasion rate for physicals, skills, and spells is about 70% for most of the game (this drops a little near Endgame). This includes evading Healing/Buffing spells, so look out.
Since Ninjas are humanoid, they can use Disgaea's Lift/Throw mechanics. This could be used to Lift an ally who is in danger of dying (if the enemy kills the Ninja, then that ally is now vulnerable again). They can also Lift opponents and hold them over their heads. While in this state, the opponent cannot do anything except struggle against the Ninja. Struggling causes the opponent to deal direct physical damage to the Ninja (ITE), who cannot attack in this state. The opponent also cannot be targetted in this state. Useful for quickly immobilizing an enemy with a nasty status move who's normal physical attack won't quickly kill the Ninja. 2.5-3.0

Dark Holy Elf · « **Reply #204 on:** January 25, 2009, 07:00:28 AM »

I remember most enemies durable/powerful enough to be equivalent to dungeon opponents one-shotting with Struggle, a point worth noting. Still, it's certainly a neat idea, like Nel's Thunderflare only not elementally reliant or indeed dodgeable in any way in exchange for the sacrifice.

Also fists do not keep up with the damage curve at all (note that Jennifer does more damage with her D in Axes than she does with her S in Fists...). I'd tend to say 2.5-3.0 is slightly on the high end as a result.

DjinnAndTonic · « **Reply #205 on:** January 25, 2009, 09:06:14 AM »

Hmm, I'd say that most enemies powerful enough to be likened to dungeon opponents two-shotted with Struggle on average. But it might be a high 2HKO. Forgot that fists weren't quite as good since I never used Axes thanks to their accuracy nerf. Still, most fist skills are going to do about 2.5HKO like average, I'd wager?

Maybe 2.0-2.5 range?

Nin-nin, indeed.

-Djinn

Dark Holy Elf · « **Reply #206 on:** January 25, 2009, 10:06:02 AM »

2.5HKO is average; it's safe to say fist damage is below. I mean, a full-game damage average would look like this:

1. Special PCs who use axes to power their unique skills.
2. Generics who use axes or swords well, so get axe/sword techs.
3. Mages and gun users who do decent damage using a totally different formula.
4. Generics who don't use axes, swords, guns, or magic well, so they have to settle for inferior weapon techs OR use axes with worse skills.

One of those groups is much less damaging than the other three, and that's where Ninja falls. I imagine they outdamage Scout, and Priest, and maybe Archer? But nobody else (barring some monsters which I'm not comfortable including in the average), and a lot of people outdamage them. I'm guessing 4HKO.

Do you know how the Struggle damage is calculated? I never saw it fail to OHKO and I'm talking strictly main-game experience here, no item world or stronger enemy laws or any nonsense like that. This is from enemies who would only, say, 4-5HKO with their regular physicals (though usually 2-3HKO with techs). I imagine dungeon foes are at least that good. I'm going to assume it works that way in the dungeon without some tests/mechanical evidence to correct me.

DjinnAndTonic · « **Reply #207 on:** January 25, 2009, 10:24:53 AM »

4HKO damage? Alright, I can see it. I guess my Ninjas were just always stronger due to having higher weapon levels or something?

Anyway, I looked up the Lift Damage formula. The Lifter takes 1/2 the "Lifted's" maxHP in damage (it doesn't ignore target defense completely, but it might as well). It makes sense. Randoms in Disgaea do tend to have high HP, but fail stats. A good balancing mechanism to control wanton lifting. Works out better in the Dungeon though.

Not quite sure what his point value is, though. Unblockable disabling is pretty good in a pinch, even if it kills Ninja. Maybe 2.0? Less than Millenia, certainly.

EDIT: Just noticed that on the front page of the Picking A Team topic, Jessica (DQ8) and Jessica (Lunar) are both labeled as just 'Jessica'. Probably should be marked.

Chisa · « **Reply #208 on:** January 25, 2009, 10:37:33 AM »

I believe struggle damage was equal to half of the HP of the enemy being held. Ingame, that's devastating, because if you have to hold something, it's probably well above your level. In the dungeon, though, as long as the holdee doesn't have 2x the scaled HP, he'll live.

Dark Holy Elf · « **Reply #209 on:** January 25, 2009, 10:51:44 AM »

That makes sense.

My kneejerk is that I would see struggle OHKO (the reasoning being that I see PCHP for a Disgaea enemy around, say, where boss Mid-boss and Kurtis are, and half their HP converted into damage is certainly enough to one-shot a Disgaea PC) but the scaling Chisa puts forward also seems acceptable to me.

Nephrite · « **Reply #210 on:** January 30, 2009, 09:31:18 PM »

Here are some ideas I've been tossing around. Any extreme disagreements would be appreciated.

New:

Ryu3 (No Dragons) as 3.0
Luneth as 3.0 (Job change per floor)
Fogel as 3.0
Serge (w/ White Elements) 3.0
DW4 Hero at 2.5
Kratos at 2.5 (Probably)
Feena (with spells) 2.5
Dis Ninja at 2.0 (Curious to see how that'll go)
Riddel (with storebought Elements) as 2.0
Meru .5 ( w/ Dragoon Spirit)
Ditto (with Quick Powder) .5

Moving:

Tidus to 3.5
Zerase to 3.0
FFX-2 Songstress to 3.0
KOS-MOS to 2.5
Angelo to 2.5
Rudy to 2.0
Nash to 2.0
Jean (Lu2) to 1.5
Marisa to 1.5
Jessica (Lunar) to 1.0
Robo to 1.0
Tear to 1.0
Jean (BoF2) to .5

Changing:

Fou-lu (Scales against endgame BoF4 Party) / possibly remove?

Relm to 3.0 (Chooses 2 espers on every floor)

Clear Tranquil · « **Reply #211 on:** January 30, 2009, 09:43:25 PM »

I extremely disagree with moving Tidus to 3.5 cause it means I don't have enough points for my team anymore! >.>

Seriously though there's a lot of good ideas there. I could work with it~

Dhyerwolf · « **Reply #212 on:** January 30, 2009, 10:08:33 PM »

If you wanted to do a cheap, itemless LoD character, Lavitz/Albert might be a more interesting choice than Meru since he runs around for half the game with like double average damage. Meru...has to wait until floor 4 for a Dragoon spirit or something?

Nephrite · « **Reply #213 on:** January 30, 2009, 10:36:36 PM »

Meru was mostly there to be a fast healer who was pretty cheap, but I'd have no problem with Alvitz. Lavert?

Dhyerwolf · « **Reply #214 on:** January 30, 2009, 11:18:05 PM »

Yeah, the whole needing to wait until likely the end of floor 4 abouts to get that healing though (And...it's her L2 spell, so she doesn't even auto-get it with her Dragoon). Granted, she's half a point, but at the same time...it's not like she ever really gets a lot of healing, and it's locked at 50%. Rena's about half a point too, IIRC, and gets similar MT healing for much of the time! (Granted, less speed and damage, but also Revival/Anti/Better Equips/Not Hating Physicals). Maybe Meru could be free and just take up a character slot?

superaielman · « **Reply #215 on:** January 30, 2009, 11:21:39 PM »

Let Meru start with her dragoon spirit.

Nephrite · « **Reply #216 on:** January 30, 2009, 11:35:51 PM »

That's easily done.

Yakumo · « **Reply #217 on:** January 30, 2009, 11:40:06 PM »

Even if you start her with the Dragoon Spirit, when do you see her getting the healing spell? Not to mention that she'll have issues even reaching Dragoon form for a long time since her early combo's aren't going to give her 100... SP, was it? DP? I dunno, but you know what I mean.

Clear Tranquil · « **Reply #218 on:** January 31, 2009, 01:50:35 AM »

Meru builds up enough SP to learn Rainbow Breath easily in game, really quickly after she gets her dragoon spirit. Hell it doesn't even take her *that* long to learn Diamond Dust >.> Most people allow LoD characters to start with at least one dragoon bar per battle ehhh dunno (I do)~ Also .5 is way too cheap for Rose/Blossom Storm <.<

Also these kind of issues are *why* Meru is a .5, she'd be worth more than that w/o them/with improvements >.>

Yakumo · « **Reply #219 on:** January 31, 2009, 02:57:58 AM »

Sure, in-game she gets those spells quickly... but in-game I'm fairly sure she gets a boost to her Dragoon level rate due to getting the spirit so late, or maybe lower requirements or something. It's faster than it was for others. Do you take that into account and give her the spells when the first characters get theirs? Do you just toss them to her on like floor two since she would probably have them within a floor of getting them in-game? And keep in mind, in-game NOBODY has a Dragoon Spirit for a fair bit of game time, so she's already inflated above her normal worth right off the bat.

Clear Tranquil · « **Reply #220 on:** January 31, 2009, 03:13:14 AM »

Eh I'm fairly sure that it's due to her getting more *turns* than anybody else that she racks up SP points well rather than having lower requirement costs. Maybe a bit of both dunno but I don't think she had any substantial lower requirement costs. I pegged her as getting Rainbow Breath on floor 4 w/o starting with her D Spirit on Floor 1.

Edit: Yay FAQs~ -

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
D R A G O O N L E V E L N E E D E D S P
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Name | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~|~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~|
| DART | 100 | 1200 | 6000 | 12000 | 20000 |
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| LAVITZ/ALBERT | 100 | 1000 | 6000 | 12000 | 20000 |
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| SHANA/MIRANDA | 100 | 1000 | 6000 | 12000 | 20000 |
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| ROSE | 100 | 1200 | 6000 | 12000 | 20000 |
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| HASCHEL | 100 | 1000 | 6000 | 12000 | 20000 |
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| MERU | 100 | 2000 | 6000 | 12000 | 20000 |
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| KONGOL | 100 | 2000 | 6000 | 12000 | 20000 |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Credits to FAQ writer, etc~

Dhyerwolf · « **Reply #221 on:** January 31, 2009, 03:48:55 AM »

I'd personally gut check about 1 Dragoon level per floor (So starts the 2nd floor with 2 and so on).

Clear Tranquil · « **Reply #222 on:** January 31, 2009, 04:04:42 AM »

Floor 6 for dragon summons maybe since they take a bit longer to learn than other spells? Though super says floor 7 is end game/final boss so hmm.

DjinnAndTonic · « **Reply #223 on:** February 05, 2009, 05:15:11 AM »

I mapped out a Riddel (with Storebought elements). I included the consumable ITEM elements, though they should probably be discounted considering her cost. I threw the Saints summon in there for the hell of it, you can ignore it. Also, I included a few innate-only elements on the list that Riddel can't use because they are storebought. This is in case Neph decides to use someone other than Riddel as the basis for the storebought CC elements character. Note that I have no idea about the accuracy percentages on the status-effect-inducing elements. Nor do I know exact heal percentages.

Floor 1:
AquaBeam *Blue ST lv1 attack
Cure *Blue ST low HP heal
IceLance *Blue ST lv2 attack
x5Medicine *ITEM Blue ST cures flu/frozen
Fireball *Red ST lv1 attack
x5Tablet *ITEM Red ST low HP heal
MagmaBomb *Red MT lv2 attack
x5Ointment *ITEM Red heals Burn/confusion status
Bushwhacker *Green ST lv1 attack
AeroSaucer *Green ST lv2 attack
x5Antidote *ITEM ST Green cures Poison and Afraid
Uplift *Yellow ST lv1 attack
ElectroJolt *Yellow ST lv2 attack
x5Brace *ITEM Yellow ST cures Sprain and Dizzy

Floor 2:
Photon Ray *White ST lv1 attack
Meteorite *White Lv2 ST attack spell
x5WhiteOut *ITEM, heals Fatigue, godly.
(RIDDEL TECH) SnakeEyes *White, MT medium HP heal + recover all status
Gravity Blow *Black ST lv1 attack spell
HellSoul *Black Instant Death spell (not sure on percentage, but around 25-33%)
x5BlackOut *ITEM Black, heals Curse status
Heal *Green ST low HP heal

Floor 3:
RecoverAll *White MT medium HP heal
TurnWhite *ST, makes opponent's innate alignment White
TurnBlack
TurnBlue
TurnRed
TurnGreen
TurnYellow
AquaBall *Blue ST lv3 attack, sometimes causes Flu
CurePlus *Blue ST medium HP heal
Nimble *Blue ST raises EVD
Numble *Blue ST lowers EVD
FirePillar *Red ST lv3 attack, sometimes causes Burn
Strengthen *Red ST raises ATK
Weaken *Red ST lowers ATK
Bushbasher *Green ST lv3 attack, sometimes causes Poison
HealAll *Green MT medium HP heal
BatEye *Green ST lowers HIT%
EagleEye *Green ST raises HIT%
Upheaval *Yellow ST lv3 attack, sometimes causes Sprain
x5Capsule *ITEM Yellow ST mid HP heal
HiRes *Yellow ST raises DEF
LoRes *Yellow ST lowers DEF
(RIDDEL TECH) SnakeSkin *White ST raises M.Def on target

Floor 4:
PhotonBeam *White ST lv3 attack spell, sometimes causes Fatigue
MeteorShower *White MT lv4 attack spell, sometimes causes Fatigue
Purify *White ST Heals all negative status
x5Panacea (storebought) *ITEM White ST Heals all negative status
StrongMinded *White ST raises M.Def
WeakMinded *White ST lowers M.Def
Gravitonne *Black MT lv3 attack spell
HellBound *Black Instant Death spell (unsure on percentage, hovers around 50%, may work on bosses)
Genius *Black ST raises Magic
Imbecile *Black ST lowers Magic
Revenge *Black ST, shifts status effects to a foe
x5Nostrum *ITEM Black high HP heal
IceBlast *Blue ST lv4 attack, sometimes causes Frozen
MagmaBurst *Red ST lv4 attack, sometimes causes Confusion
AeroBlaster *Green ST lv4 attack, sometimes causes Afraid
ElectroBolt *Yellow ST lv4 attack, sometimes causes Dizzy

Floor 5:
Magnify *White Field Effect, all magic deals 1.5x damage
MagNegate *White ST, grants immunity to all magical attacks, White innates only
SealAll *Black Prevents magic usage, Black innates only
Diminish *Black Field Effect, all magic deals 0.5x damage
PhysNegate *Yellow ST grants immunity to physical attacks , Yellow innates only

Floor 6:
NinetyNine *Red ST, makes Hit Percentage = 99% temporarily
InfoScope *Green ST, reveals enemy HP amount. Too bad only Green innates can use THIS godly element...
(RIDDEL TECH) SnakeFangs *White, self-target, recharges some elements. Randomly recharges about 50% of used elements. Can sometimes recharge itself.

Floor 7:
Saints *White Summon, heals party, removes all status effects, highest level White attack spell (not storebought, but guaranteed by this point in the game and it's the only summon that Riddel's innate alignment will allow, apart from Unicorn, which is neither storebought nor guaranteed from a boss fight. I see this one as a 'gift' to make up for her horrible stats.)

As you can see, even without consumables, she has a LOT of options. NinetyNine, MagNegate, and Diminish/Magnify alone would make her a beast. She's reasonable since she doesn't get those until floor 5.

SnowFire · « **Reply #224 on:** February 05, 2009, 08:07:05 AM »

Comment on Feena, since Djinn commented on her seeming lack of good resurrection: Much like other Fina, I believe Tree of Life is full revival / status healing for the team as well. Not that this ever matters because if somebody is dead in lategame Grandia then something seriously strange is happening. Feena has three shots of this, too, by endgame. Granted this is Floor 5/6 territory, but I'd lean on Feena being a 3 point pick. I seem to recall that her Snooze had decent accuracy (50%?) and it was MT, as well, as far as slinging status, to complement her Paralyze Whip. No idea how good her Shh! and Fiora are, though.

As far as Chrono Cross characters, I definitely would lean toward a "only in-color elements" restriction if for no other reason than to not have too huge a panoply of options every battle. Plus, storeboughts only means that character setup isn't a big issue, since you aren't allowed to change your equipment in the middle of a floor. If all that's in that level 1 slot are Photon Rays, it's easy.

The changes that Nephrite posted look good to me (though I thought Luneth was already legal?). Only thing I'll add is that Zerase at 3.0 makes Magus sad (Which is not to say that Magus should be moved to 2.5, just that they serve the same role and for the most part Zerase is better at it unless you really need physical durability).

Also, since it seems people are more okay with arbitrarily fixing characters to work better in the dungeon a la Meru... I'll once again float my idea for sticking Kurando in, but with Tsukiyomi legal from the beginning. He's still a wonky pick, since hypothetical early-game Kurando has horrendous MP problems, and he won't get Jutendoji until Floor 7. Still I don't think he's THAT hard to price, as his worth isn't as inflated by Jutendoji as much as might be thought at first - his first turn still comes only at "slightly above average" rather than "brutally fast," and floor 7+ tends to be a lot of quickdraws. Good status blocking options too, thanks to SH2's three accessory slots. Maybe a 1.5?

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Author Topic: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Brainstorming Topic! (Read 144054 times)