Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Brainstorming Topic!

[Nephrite]

Luneth was indeed already legal, I just forgot.

I think I want to try Riddel with "one color" as an option, in that you can choose whether she has White, Black, Green, Blue, Red or Yellow elements and you are only allowed those colors. I'd also put her at 1.5. What do people think about that?

Kurando I could add easily enough, 1.5 could use a few more decent sluggers.

EDIT:

I also forgot to mention I'm adding Badrach (To pair with Shiho) FFT Monk and I think I've decided just to remove Fou-lu, he's a bit of a headache.

[DjinnAndTonic]

If you only allow her to switch what color elements she has, she never gets access to the more powerful innate-only elements (okay, only matters for people who want PhysNegate and Silent Lak-I mean SealAll).

Also, does she just pick one color and uses it for the rest of the Dungeon, or can she switch which ones she wants between floors? (She might really like to have access to ID for the Heal/DMG reversal floor, for example). If she can change between floors, she's probably still worth 2.0.

Kurando's a neat option.

What did you think of the Ogre Battle Amazon idea that was put forth? That seemed pretty cool. Especially the Princess class's full-party auto-haste.

-Djinn

[Nephrite]

I'm waiting on Super to finish up some mechanics stuff before I add that.

As for Riddel... hm, I guess I could let her change, it's just a bit of a headache to do so, but not that bad of one.

On another note, All the sealstones are going to be changing to work only on one person, unless otherwise noted. I'm going to go back and redo them now.

[Taishyr]

You have me in large part to blame for that development!

[DjinnAndTonic]

I would like to campaign for the Limit Break and Elemental Weakness (forgot their actual names) Sealstones to remain field effects. Or at least come in both ST and Field Effect flavors...

I personally feel these two Sealstones are already well-balanced and to me, the concept of a Sealstone is a Field Effect.

And while it's just a nomenclature thing, you might as well call ST Sealstones 'Materia' or 'Relics'...

-Djinn

[Nephrite]

That was the plan.

[Taishyr]

After seeing my Purim/Angelo/Kyra/Garnet/Crowley w/ Life sealstone concept he decided this was probably the better half of valor.

Though thinking on it Selan would be better than Kyra, theme-wise. MT-able healing and all.

[OblivionKnight]

So, I randomly got the idea while finishing up the P4 topic (still in progress, but big additions made recently) for P4 characters.  Probably a biiiiiiiiiiit too early, but why not?

While adding a support character is cool...just won't work as well in this vein, so no Rise hype ;_;

The best people to add...probably Yosuke, Chie, Naoto, Teddie/Yukiko (Teddie is more interesting, really, with the support spells, but...could see Yukiko), Soji.  Kanji is...a bit 1-D, though Matarukaja is nice.  To limit it to 3 people...probably Yosuke, Naoto, Soji (if no Soji, Teddie). 

Yosuke - Overall balanced.  Can heal decently early, dispel, MT status, MT damage, fast, decent durability, etc.  Wind isn't a common element either, so not really walled, and he resists fire once he upgrades.  Electric weakness early hurts, but...well, see far below.

Naoto - No weaknesses, and ends up arguably immune to ID, and resists fire.  Is a bit below average durability, but speed is good, and she would get Algernon early.  Almighty damage is nice to avoid resistances.  MT decent ID is helpful, though her damage is overall...eh.  Mind Charge helps, but is two turns. 

Teddie - Electric weakness sucks, but he has Mataru and Maraku kaja, with lots of full healing and status healing (though not at once like Yukiko), and at least guards ice!  Damage is good, though ice, which sucks.  Basically, a variation on a healer, though depending on how you view S.Links...

Yukiko - Ice weakness sucks, but better resistances than Teddie.  More SP, slightly less durable, slightly slower, slightly more damaging...but gets Salvation, and has a neat stock of weapons.  Lacks support skills, though.  Pretty equal, overall.

Chie - Has speed, and is a decent ice mage and physical clearer early on.  Sadly, gets a HUGE downspike from around 30-50, and the ice magic dies off around here as well.  Once she gets Power Charge, she really picks up, but it really takes level 70 to get her damage fun going...not...really ideal for the dungeon unless you allow the S.Link skills...but probably not good for the dungeon.  Skull Cracker is nice, though.

Kanji - Well, he's a tank and his physical damage is awesome.  And he has Matarukaja and Rakukaja, which are decent.  A bit slow, and his electric damage...really could be better, though it's not completely awful.  Eh...better than Chie, probably?

Soji - Ok, so, Floor 1 is start of the game, Floor 7 is endgame?  So about 10-12 levels each floor?  Ok, I'll get back to working on his set-up, but that basically means he won't get Yoshi until endgame, but then gets Helel and others.  Also has all his unique accessories, which are helpful.  You might want to use/not use the "Team loses if he dies", and adjust accordingly (fewer points if the former, more if the latter). 

So...mmm...Yosuke is the best choice here (decent for anything, no Soji interps), probably followed by...uh...Naoto or Teddie/Yukiko.  Kanji and Chie aren't much special, and Chie can be a weak link for 2-3 floors.

[Bardiche]

Ewan
Pros: You can go different ways with him. Can get Healing later on, and use Holy, Elemental and Dark magic. Can also go summoner way and just has good options.
Cons: Is dead-weight on the first three floors. Doesn't have MT attacks.

Basically Floor 1 = Trainee, Floor 2 & 3 = Mage/Shaman, Floor 4 = Sage/MageKnight/Druid/Summoner.

An alternative to Athos. Not as godly, but has options. Summoner may be fun! (except how do you really interpret it?)

[SnowFire]

Questions/ Comments on the recent Sealstones post:

Life - Similar to Multitarget: can we please cap this at 50% healing max?  Otherwise it becomes extremely important to look up who has access to overkill healing and how the games display amount healed, which just feels artificial.  (Since a character with overkill MT healing would be basically unaffected by this rule, or characters whose HealAll shows as "restored 999" or whatever.)

Resourceless - So are spells that drain all resources just unavailable with this sealstone?

Multitarget - Does this apply for positive status as well?  That is, an ST Shell (like, say, Eiko's, I believe?) becomes a MT Shell with a 50% chance of working per character?

Anyway, most of this still looks too good to me, since you have to assume that people are going to abuse them to the max which makes balancing them really hard.  But I suppose everything will just be balanced around a higher power tier.  For example, say, Firefly...  I've seriously considered making a team around Viking Luneth, except that 3 points is probably too much to pay for that.  But at 0 points?  Tossing it on your tank for free is really powerful, as there is lots of scary ST stuff out there.  Heck, tossing it on anyone is really powerful, as now you know who to Protect/Shell.

[Nephrite]

Life I can modify, that makes sense.

Abilities that drain all resources can still be used with it, but, for example, Ryu 2's dragon forms would be usable... but then he could no longer use them (since he technically has 0 AP at that point) but could still heal.

Multitarget means that if you cast Protect or Shell, it would hit everyone but only reduce the damage done by 25%, rather than 50%.

[dude789]

Here are some ideas I've been tossing around. Any extreme disagreements would be appreciated.

Changing:

Relm to 3.0 (Chooses 2 espers on every floor)

Does she learn the magic from the espers or does she forget it? If she forgets the magic then she seems a little high for a 3.0 because she is worse than a puny until floor three and her options are still a bit limited until lategame.

[Nephrite]

She remembers it. Although, thinking about it, I may change it to 1 Esper, two seems like it may be too much for a 3.0... eh, I'll think about it.

[Clear Tranquil]

Nah, she still wouldn't be able to pick up revival/good healing until F4 anyway? Hmmm.

[Clear Tranquil]

Suggestion for a choice of alternate Maria (is given a Decrepit Tome for Healing/Silence/Antidote) ... maybe 2.5?

[dude789]

I thought of a couple of characters who could be interesting in the dungeon.

Goofy, Kingdom Hearts: .5
Pros: MP gift is a great ability and can greatly help those who have resource issues. Additionally, MP Rage and MP Haste mean he can use MP gift almost indefinately. Second chance and good hp along with auto life make him pretty durable.
Cons: Damage is hideous. MP gift isn't learned until a couple of floors down and he doesn't bring much else to a party. The auto life takes forever to activate.

King Cureslime, Dragon Quest 5: 2.0
Pros: Has all the healing you would ever need with MT full healing and full revival. A couple of neat buffs don't hurt either. Lots of HP means that he takes hits well, especially during the middle floors. Boomerangs are a nice addition.
Cons: Although not Mint level, his damage is not good and it gets worse later. Although his durability is never bad, it gets worse during the lategame and aftergame due to his level cap.

Viera, FFTA: 3.0
Pros: Lots of options and a lot of them are quite powerful. She can really do it all whether it's damage, healing or status all while having above average speed.
Cons: She takes awhile to get going. MP restraints can severely limit her use.   

Edit: One final character who I thought could be interesting
FF5 Time Mage with the Return spell:1.0
Pros: Makes sure that nothing goes wrong.  Can restart a battle until all status that need to hit work,  a character gets a necessary critical hit, or an enemy misses. Takes the luck aspect out of battles and puts it on your side.
Cons: Speed issues can complicate matters, and there are somethings that he can't stop from happening. No other spells mean that he can't add anything else to a team besides weak physical damage.

[Bardiche]

Not sure where to ask this, figure I'll do so here as it uh, requires some thought?

For the "Resourceless?" Sealstone, how does it treat Suikoden charges?

Does it give you 4 charges, one of each level? Or what?

Also, does Sasarai effectively lose his TRUE EARTH RUNE sometime, too? How do people hold him against that? (I guess game canon has him losing it at Floor... 6 or 7?)

[Nephrite]

Suikoden characters can choose one of their spells every battle and cast them. They may not cast them a second time. For example, Sasarai uses Kindness Rain, he can't use it anymore, but could use his other Level 2 charge if he so desired to.

And no, Sasarai doesn't lose his rune, or at least he shouldn't... he loses it for such a short time between when you get him and you get it back anyway.

[superaielman]

P4 suggestions:

Souji- 4.0 - Classic twink PC. Has a billion options.
Rise- 0.5/free- Start her with all her skills unlocked. 5% MP REGEN YES
Yosuke- 2.0. Good early on, lags some around floor 3-4, gets good again late. MT spells help, bad healing doesn't. The evade buff is godly.
Kanji- 1.5. Too slow and ST focused for the duengon. On the other hand he has tons of tanking and some good supprort magic.
Yukiko- 1.5. She has a pretty bad lag period with her healing, which holds her back.
Teddie- 2.0. Gets better healing and buffing than Yukiko.
Naoto- 2.0. MT ID! MT physicals! Takes hits like Luc!
Chie- 1.5.She lacks, but so what? She has a MT physical in the duengon and the uber lategameness. Payoff is wroth it.

[dude789]

Rise is interesting. She could work as either a sealstone, or a .5 pick who doesn't take up a party slot like Nall.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Rise is interesting. She could work as either a sealstone, or a .5 pick who doesn't take up a party slot like Nall.

I'm all for this idea!

[DjinnAndTonic]

I found some free time the other day and got together the list of 'retired' Nyarlie's Dungeon Adventurers. I know they were retired for a reason, but maybe if we take another look at the list, there might be a few that deserve another shot at the Dungeon.

And if nothing else, I wanted to preserve the information somewhere.

Foomy   L2 - Retired Capsule, probably not a great addition to the now Capsule-less system.
Gusto    L2 - Ditto, and even less well-known.
Kongol   LoD - LoD already has plenty of representation now, but I've always thought Kongol was one of the more interesting Lights.
Minsc   BGs - No clue here.
Nara   DW4 - DW4 still has some representation, and Nara would have to cost 0 points to be worth it.
Samson   BtB - I'm just amused that he was ever an option.
Suicine   PKMN - Hey, this could work.
Albert Serdio   LoD - See Kongol, only Albert would have be some kind of Lavibert combination. Meh.
Colm   FE8 - Cooler than Rennac! But FE8 is already pretty well represented.
FF1 Red Mage   FF1 - FF1 generics already have representation, and Red Mages already have better representation. Extraneous.
Kain Highwind   FF4 - Even as a 0.5, I think what he does has been represented. And there's plenty of FF4, too.
Shania   SH3 - Hey, her game is actually well-played nowadays. Might make a good 3.0/3.5 option!
Alena   DW4 - Extraneous, I think.
Banon   FF6 - Larsa has his niche now.
Brig Angel   Brig - Low voter totals sway me against this one.
Brig Hydra   Brig - Ditto.
FF3 Sage   FF3 - Actually, not a bad option, even with Luneth around.
FFT Hyudra   FFT - FFT has plenty of representation... But might make an interesting pick with Ramza?
Freyjadour Falenas   S5 - I really wanted to use him, dammit...
Gau   FF6 - Gone, and for good reason.
Lexis Shaia   L2 - Hmm... interesting Tia variation, really. But L2 is kind of overrepresented as is.
Lyon   S5 - I wanted to use her, too...
Malak Galthana   FFT - Hmm... would have to be a 0.5 option, but he's workable and unique-ish.
Noa   LoL - Bring her back, she's LoL's best representation!
OB Dragon   OB - Meh, Fogel represents OB better than anything I can think of. Except maybe Destin with Tarot cards!
OB Wizard   OB Ditto.
Philia Felice   ToD She's fairly unique as far as Tales characters go, but there's a decent collection of them already.
Quina Quen   FF9 - Not sure why s/he was retired...
Rei   BoF3 - Another one that I wanted to use...
Shante   AtLC - Low voter totals sway me against any more AtL than Arc or Elc.
Snorlax   PKMN - Hmm... may be workable.
SoE Dog   SoE - A bit too obscure for me, but maybe?
Ash Lambert   VH - Low voter totals sway me against VH.
Tengaar   S2 - There's enough Suikomages running around. Though I'd prefer her to Hellion personally.
Lucia   LEBC - Great capsule! Might not work so well in the current format. Lunar is overrepresented.
Jogurt   ShF1 - Godlike. Bring him back for the lolz.
Karn   BoF1 - Retired, BoFs is overrepresented, not really a great rank.
Onix   PKMN - Possibly still workable in the current format as a 0.5
Peter   ShF2 - Ditto.
Rydia   FF4 - Not sure why she was dropped.

[Glen Veil]

Someone that might be interesting to rank would be Alexia from WAXF, with class access based on the dungeon floors.  Has an initiative gimmick, but afterwards is basically Raquel speed without intrude and worse damage.  The interesting thing is you can opt to generally put her in classes that don't suite her well and in the process turn her into a Bluelike who pretty much only dies to TC from WA4 by the time she gains access to the last set of classes.

If you price her at 4 points, someone who decides to try this is going to basically have to win with 7 points worth of people since at one point Alexia would have to spend time in the Excavator class for the bluelike skillset of doom to be foolproof.

[Nephrite]

Rydia was dropped because she basically would never get a turn to do anything useful due to her fragility and speed issues. I may add Shania in again, she's Yuri-lite basically...

If other people want to help make some sort of floor layout for this Alexia person, by all means I will consider it.

[Talaysen]

If you're going to use a twinkable WAXF person, use someone who actually joins early on.  Clarissa's probably a good candidate.