Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Brainstorming Topic!

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

It would be easy enough to believe that from Phantasy Star or something... but VP was pretty far into the PSX era... What you're saying sounds possible, but it just doesn't seem likely. I don't know for sure, as I've never bothered to check, but still..

Tri-Ace and polish are like oil and water.

[Clear Tranquil]

Hmm ok.

Billy
Peppita
Eiko
Beecham
Miakis

So Billy does good damage and apparently has haste, healing and revival. Eiko makes two revivers. Beecham, Peppita or even Miakis (she starts with a Shield Rune) as a place holder makes three with the Life sealstone. Problem is Beecham apparently only has two shots of Kindness Rain at L55 >.> I'd say Peppita's MP regen dance helps with that but she doesn't get it till post game! Unless you buy early clear game data hype~ So yeah the lack of MP is maybe something to think on. On the other hand I'd see Shield Rune's Fury stacking with Power Dance so that's nice.

Here's a modification since Body Charge can't be used in pairs -

Billy
Peppita (Body Charge)
Eiko
Lucian
Shiho

Body Charge ensures Power Dance is running at above average speed if you don't buy initiative hype regardless. Tighten's up Pep's HP/durability as a buffer/healer too. Should also solidify Faerie Friend/Dream Hammer as above average offence. Just an idea =-)

Puppet Sealstone
If the wearer of this sealstone looses all of their hp they may continue to use physical attacks while they are dead. However, these physical attacks only deal 75% of their normal damage and revival effects do not take effect on this character until after the fight is over.

I like this idea~

Game over if everyone else is dead?

[Bardiche]

Body Charging Peppita is setting myself up for CT hypage.

I do want to see if I can find a work around for Sacred Slayer to fit into the team... Hrm. Since I've already used Lucian and Shiho...

[dude789]

Puppet Sealstone
If the wearer of this sealstone looses all of their hp they may continue to use physical attacks while they are dead. However, these physical attacks only deal 75% of their normal damage and revival effects do not take effect on this character until after the fight is over.

I like this idea~

Game over if everyone else is dead?

Yeah, game over if everyone else is dead. I'm not sure if the number should change though. Someone like Emily is still very effective at 75% normal damage output, but 50%  seemed to low to be effective.

[Clear Tranquil]

*nods*

Perhaps 65%? >.> Or perhaps 75% but a speed restriction? Or buff effects are also disabled? <.<

[dude789]

I was thinking of something like that. An alternative could be that their physical attacks deal 100%, but they can't be revived for the rest of the floor. As for buffs, I'd say that they work on the character when they're alive, but when they die status and buffs go away and the character can't be affected by any new buffs or status.

[Talaysen]

I was thinking of something like that. An alternative could be that their physical attacks deal 100%, but they can't be revived for the rest of the floor. As for buffs, I'd say that they work on the character when they're alive, but when they die status and buffs go away and the character can't be affected by any new buffs or status.

Even if they can't be revived, 100% damage physicals is still too strong.  Someone like Raquel or Emily don't even care if they die in the case.  Also, removing buffs/status and making them not effective while dead is a very good idea.

[dude789]

I was recently thinking about how well Shadow Hearts 3 characters translate to the dungeon and I thought up a rather interesting combination you could make.

Jane + Shania + Ricardo/Hilda
It takes a while to get going, but once Shania gets the dream porter you can essentially give her 4 turns before the enemy gets one whenever Ricardo or Hilda gets a full stock guage by using Follow Me-Shania double-Ricardo/Hilda combo to Shania-Shania double. It looks like a really powerful combo especially since Follow Me eliminates the delay from the doubles and it leaves you with 4 points for the rest of the team. The big weakness is that it starts off slow, but Shania skillset grows pretty quickly and Ricardo and Hilda both have a pretty good selection of stellar magic to start. Resourceless seems like a good sealstone for the SH3ers because it lets Ricardo use Flame In My Soul much earlier and Hilda can use entrace on Shania without worrying about MP costs. Does anyone have any thoughts on the team as it seems like a pretty powerful combination.

[Magic Fanatic]

As far as I remember...

Pros:
Only 9 points and 4 slots, so there's space for a 2-point character, or a 1-point character and Nall.
The late buffing games are awesome.
SH status blockers.
Curvy Hilda gets early ID (I wanna say...  Late Floor 2 or Floor 3?  It's right before La Sirene shows up, at any rate).
The buffs can be really awesome.

Cons:
Jane doesn't get Follow Me until Floor 4.
Jane is very, very frail.
WCYD hype.  It doesn't really exist.
Flame In My Soul doesn't show up until late Floor 6 or Floor 7.
 - Also, Ricardo only has his Stellar Magic and Rainbow Oath/Hot Blood/Red Ties Legend/Road to Glory until about Floor 4.
Dream Porter isn't until Late Floor 6/Floor 7, either.
Revival - Hilda's doesn't show up until at least Floor 5 (whenever you can get into Moana Village, requires Curvy Hilda), Shania's requires L5 Orca Statue (which isn't likely to happen early unless you're gimping the other fetishes - it requires a total of 480 Soul), and Ricardo and Jane have none.
Due to how the ring upgrades for SH2/3 characters work, that team looks rather anemic to causing damage unless they blow through their MP.
Except for Ricardo's Serenades and his Arc Mirage (SH evasion...  What?), all the buffs are ST and dispellabe.

You can cover some of the bigger resource holes if you pick a good supplementary character to go along with that team so far, like Lilka (can basically solo some of the early floors), Rosa, FFT Monk, FF5 Red Mage, Bowser/Nall, Adray/Nall, or whatever other combo you'd like to think of.  Basically, whatever you'd like to do to plug up at least one of the following holes: lack of early revival, and lack of early non-expensive damage (or lack of damage altogether, in Jane's case).

Of course, I might be analyzing this incorrectly, and other interp calls will probably need to be made.

[Dark Holy Elf]

A bit late, but:

VP affinities appear to be glitched in some weird way. They have an effect, but only against evadable physicals which happen to be elemental. There aren't very many of these, which is why so few people notice this; I was baffled by what I saw when I first encountered it while making the VP bestiary.

Regardless, this affinity's effect is probably more negative than positive. You resist one element, but you're weak to three (+50% for your opposite, +25% for the two beside your opposite. I think. Would need to check my notes to be sure). Since it only affects evadable physicals, though, it's not too significant either way. Equipment also overrides it but DL-legally only Lenneth (everything) and mages (fire/ice) have equips to cover their weaknesses, outside some plot items.

[dude789]

As far as I remember...

Pros:
Only 9 points and 4 slots, so there's space for a 2-point character, or a 1-point character and Nall.
The late buffing games are awesome.
SH status blockers.
Curvy Hilda gets early ID (I wanna say...  Late Floor 2 or Floor 3?  It's right before La Sirene shows up, at any rate).
The buffs can be really awesome.

Cons:
Jane doesn't get Follow Me until Floor 4.
Jane is very, very frail.
WCYD hype.  It doesn't really exist.
Flame In My Soul doesn't show up until late Floor 6 or Floor 7.
 - Also, Ricardo only has his Stellar Magic and Rainbow Oath/Hot Blood/Red Ties Legend/Road to Glory until about Floor 4.
Dream Porter isn't until Late Floor 6/Floor 7, either.
Revival - Hilda's doesn't show up until at least Floor 5 (whenever you can get into Moana Village, requires Curvy Hilda), Shania's requires L5 Orca Statue (which isn't likely to happen early unless you're gimping the other fetishes - it requires a total of 480 Soul), and Ricardo and Jane have none.
Due to how the ring upgrades for SH2/3 characters work, that team looks rather anemic to causing damage unless they blow through their MP.
Except for Ricardo's Serenades and his Arc Mirage (SH evasion...  What?), all the buffs are ST and dispellabe.

You can cover some of the bigger resource holes if you pick a good supplementary character to go along with that team so far, like Lilka (can basically solo some of the early floors), Rosa, FFT Monk, FF5 Red Mage, Bowser/Nall, Adray/Nall, or whatever other combo you'd like to think of.  Basically, whatever you'd like to do to plug up at least one of the following holes: lack of early revival, and lack of early non-expensive damage (or lack of damage altogether, in Jane's case).

Of course, I might be analyzing this incorrectly, and other interp calls will probably need to be made.

I think only using one of Ricardo/Hilda would be better as it leaves you with a bit more options and Shania's broken combo only requires one of them to pull off. It probably wants a power character with revival to help with the early floors and then a 1 or  a .5 to fill in the gaps.

[Magic Fanatic]

I think only using one of Ricardo/Hilda would be better as it leaves you with a bit more options and Shania's broken combo only requires one of them to pull off. It probably wants a power character with revival to help with the early floors and then a 1 or  a .5 to fill in the gaps.

Of course, if all you're worried about is Shania's 'broken combo', then why worry about Ricardo or Hilda?  Shania (once she gets the Dream Porter) has no problems doing Doubles/D-Combos on her own.

Ricardo, at least, starts off with MT Cure, and Hilda still gets that early ID, with late 100% ST Revival and MT Full Healing.



With that said, I'd like to propose a Sealstone idea based on the idea that Neph might want to include something with MP Healing.  The idea is based somewhat on Tim's FP Shift skill:

MP Shifter - The bearer of this sealstone may spend their turn and 25% of their MMP to restore 25% of each other characters MMP.  This sealstone bearing character's MP may not be regenerated in any way, including Full Heals (until the end of the floor).

[Bardiche]

Clearly people with infinite MP (SHIHO) cannot use it, right?

Hmmm... Application on people who don't use their MP (much) potentially awesome.

[dude789]

I think only using one of Ricardo/Hilda would be better as it leaves you with a bit more options and Shania's broken combo only requires one of them to pull off. It probably wants a power character with revival to help with the early floors and then a 1 or  a .5 to fill in the gaps.

Of course, if all you're worried about is Shania's 'broken combo', then why worry about Ricardo or Hilda?  Shania (once she gets the Dream Porter) has no problems doing Doubles/D-Combos on her own.

Ricardo, at least, starts off with MT Cure, and Hilda still gets that early ID, with late 100% ST Revival and MT Full Healing.

Without the other character she can only use a double once per turn, but if Shania is paired with Ricardo or Hilda she can use all of her dream porter stock the first turn and get 4 turns in one round by using her combo and then having Ricardo or Hilda link to her turn so she can use another double

[Magic Fanatic]

Clearly people with infinite MP (SHIHO) cannot use it, right?

Hmmm... Application on people who don't use their MP (much) potentially awesome.

I suppose that yes, it would be illegal for her, since she doesn't actually have a Maximum MP score to spend MP out of...  Unless you see 25% of her "infinite MP" to be Infinite MP, and she can never recover CT.

I was actually thinking that characters it would be awesome on are the likes of Edgar, post-Celestial Yuna, maybe Rikku, a more physical-oriented Bartz, Purim/Popoi mid-game (since a lot of their stuff is fairly cheap), FFT Monk, FF5 Mime...  There could be more, I'm not sure.

Without the other character she can only use a double once per turn, but if Shania is paired with Ricardo or Hilda she can use all of her dream porter stock the first turn and get 4 turns in one round by using her combo and then having Ricardo or Hilda link to her turn so she can use another double

This also requires Hilda/Ricardo to have a bar of stock as well, which happens...  What, once every three or four turns if and only if they attack?  It's a little quicker if they're getting hit or healing (and buffing?) as well, but that's here nor there.  Point is, if you have to wait that long for damage, it probably won't happen soon enough.

This probably doesn't include the fact that it may require Pink Bat/Curvy Hilda, since Ricardo and Slim Hilda are actually quite a ways faster than Shania, and may get their turns in the Follow Me before Shania can.

[Dhyerwolf]

Hmm, right, I was actually thinking of putting together a team. I wanted to revisit the Cielo-Status Symbol Combo, especially since it looks like Status Symbol has been rewritten to be better now.

Thought was
Ness- Eventually laughs at the idea of taking more damage (3)
Cielo- Obviously! (3)
Nina 1- Ridiculous speed healing. May get revival early? (3)

This still leaves room for 2 more points. Smashing damage wouldn't be bad, nor would moar healing.
1.5s I'd look at- Kevin, Hawk, Knight, Marisa, Riddel
1- Beecham, Seifer, Raja
0.5- Meru, Mint, Rena

Uuuh, really leaning towards Seifer/Raja. Seifer...sick damage on that limit (OHKO level even with the slight nerfing). 40% chance at full HP. Apparentally MT. Kind of insane for a 1...except his flaw is complete and utter status bait to the extreme. Ness/Cielo/Nina 1/Seifer/Raja is then effectively what I guess I'd be looking at. Thoughts, since I've never actually thrown one of these together?

[SnowFire]

Re Shiho with MP sucking: Well that sounds legal but doesn't Shiho have 0 MP?  Anyway, the MP-transfer is very weird, seems like it'd reward parties with characters with DL-useless MP, like Shadow.  Or maybe not Shadow, since technically if you never equip an Esper he doesn't have MP.  Well, you know the type.  It'd also be a bit hard to interpret - massive respectsplits ahoy on exactly how much MP is moving.  Is Pokemon PP for Normal type moves MP?  Do you factor 0 MP characters into the max MP average?  Does it even make sense to use max MP as something consistent, since in some systems everyone has their own personal spell list, and a character with 100 MP and 5 MP spells has more resources than someone with 300 MP and 50 MP spells?  etc.  Meh to that idea.

As for Seifer, looking at the stat topic...
"Seifer seemed to get Limits 40% of the time when he was near full health. Naturally, this is higher when he is at lower health."

"Near" full health.  I don't believe Seifer gets limits at full HP?  Could be wrong.  Still this is pretty amazing, I thought he started getting limits at the .50-.60 range, but if he can get limits as high as 80% then that means Seifer is insane.  When a team went through with Seifer before, I don't think he got much insta-limit hype, people were just more generous about his limit range.  He's still pretty good, but hmm, if testing proves that what you say is true, he really shouldn't be a 1.0.

[Dhyerwolf]

Yes, if it's not full health he does get worse (notably so), but near full health implies...pretty good. It could be that the last time, the person wasn't really hyping Seifer to the max, so he or she didn't get the full benefit. But yeah, even 1% drop full health is a notable diminishment (Although...guess you can say he attacks himself. Still makes MT healing have a downside though).

All Pokemon PP is their MP. I don't get your max MP example. The 100 MP character receives 25 MP. The 300 MP character receives 75. The 100 MP gains more, relatively. I'd assume no MP=no effect from the sealstone, personally. Granted, it seems...like an incredibly niche sealstone. It doesn't seem like running out of MP has been a great danger so far, and you need to use someone's turn.

[SnowFire]

Yeah I misread that sealstone.  I thought it was "use 25% of your own Max MP to transfer *that amount* to another character.  So a character with 400% Max MP compared to average would give a full MP recharge to people whose max MP was average, and Shiho would give nothing.  But yeah...  that means even a character with *awful* MP can give 25% MMP to others.  But it does evade some nasty interp splits.

[Clear Tranquil]

Team super and I were musing on during the vacation -

Orlandu
Celes (Espers)
Peppita
Siefer
Tia/Aeris/Adray/etc

[superaielman]

That team needs more revival offhand than what you have, early floors are going to be a bitch. Peppita/Celes and to a lesser extent Orlandu are all project PC's.

[Clear Tranquil]

I could stick in Rena and Nall! >.>

This is very much a project team though yeah though MT No Mercy Seifer off Power Dance sounds yummy, I believe we talked about that. I take eight to 10 levels per floor for skills/etc but YMMV, Power Dance is F2 for me.

Meh I could ditch Orlandu or Celes I guess ... maybe Terra for Celes?

[superaielman]

What level is power dance gained at?

SO3's level system isn't even like that. You get a huge EXP spike on disk 2 and that is well over 50% into the game. Probably see the moonbase at the start of floor 5 offhand.

[Clear Tranquil]

Yeah I know fruitbean!  I try to remain balanced re levelling/skills for all games though so ten levels tops for all unless there's something of significance for more/less EXP in a game that drastically effects levelling (so yeah ... I guess) Less headaches that way!

L15~ (so round about where you learned Side Kick, Ice Daggers early on)

Orlandu (4.0)
Terra (3.0)
Siefer (1.0)
Peppita (1.5)
-?? ??

-or-

Celes (3.5)
Terra (3.0)
Peppita (1.5)
Siefer (1.0)
?? ??

[Clear Tranquil]

* Clear Tranquil chews on the idea of adding Mavelle to the dungeon for the sake of the Elemental Sealstone

Have I done this already >.>