Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Brainstorming Topic!

[Yoshiken]

We need some Butterfree on the Guidelines page on the Wiki~

And on that note, I've been looking at some kind of Pokemon team again lately, because I can see Mew being really fun to abuse.
Just wondering about a few things, though.
 - What type/strength would Mew's Hidden Power be? I'm too used to competitive (so imagining whatever's chosen/70)
 - What items/Pokemon would likely be allowed as a Synergy Bonus?
 - Would people see attacks that hit every opponent in doubles/triples hitting every enemy in the dungeon? Same applies to hitting everyone (allies and enemies)
 - Should Pikachu have Volt Tackle/Surf post-game? They're both available through events, and Volt Tackle's also an egg move (if Light Ball is held) so seems fitting.

Past that, I'm really torn on the team. I've got Mew/Butterfree/Onix/Alakazam so far (6.5 points) and a slot left, but Gastly/Ditto just leave me with a very frail, entirely special-based team, and I'd much rather have some safety net against healers/mages. I need, like... Machop. Or Tyrogue.
(I did consider Pikachu, given Thunderwave on F1 could really help my close-to-average speed, quite frail team, but it doesn't really help too much, given the 'quite frail' part. >.>)
Anyways, the idea here is to use Onix, with his crazy strength in early-game, to get me through the first two floors (with a little support from the rest of the team - possibly Mew's Hidden Power), then have Mew start setting up dual screens. Past that, I run with Alakazam/Onix hitting the necessary defences while Butterfree statuses through (and my other Pokemon hopefully helping too) until about Floor 6, where Earthquake/Blizzard/Overheat start becoming ridiculous. (Or Surf, for the F4 version that kills my own allies. )

[Bardiche]

You could try getting some heals in there. By which I mean if you insist on Pokémon-themed, perhaps the MT stone would work on Alakazam so he can use Recovery for MT 25% healing. It's not spectacular, but it's something. Of course, a Rest Pokémon would work best due to 50% MT healing + status curing, but would the entire team fall asleep?

[Nephrite]

Bard:

Sasarai gets to use both charges from both runes. So he can use Land of Eternity and Mother Ocean once a battle.

I...don't think it'd work with Jude's Defender, but it would work with his Counterattack. It's intended to only work with damage abilities, really. I think if it worked with things like Defender it'd be too good.


Yoshi:

Hidden Power: I have no idea, I bet hinode would know.
Synergy?: I'd probably let you go up to 6 Pokemon (as... you know...) and maybe give you Chansey? As for items, I'm not sure. I'll think about it.
MT: Yes, I think they do. You'd have to ask others though.
Pikachu: Yeah, that's fine too.

[Bardiche]

Bard:

Sasarai gets to use both charges from both runes. So he can use Land of Eternity and Mother Ocean once a battle.

I...don't think it'd work with Jude's Defender, but it would work with his Counterattack. It's intended to only work with damage abilities, really. I think if it worked with things like Defender it'd be too good.

Yeah, that's why I ask about Defender. It'd... be really awesome to have 100% blocking, but counter-attacking with a 100% probability's also cools. Kinda want to make a full counter-attack team just to abuse the delicious pre-emptive countering.

And neat. Sasarai will take to the skies then. 8D



Actually, rethinking my team... current setup:

Billy (slower than average)
Sasarai (depends on what he casts - faster than average on Earthquake and full healing, slower than average on Land of Eternity and Magic Nulling(either))
Eiko (dead-on average)
Sacred Slayer (slower than average, then speed monster)
Monk (average I think?)
Nall (lol nall)

My current weakness is that anything that moves faster than I do and does good damage can immediately drop someone on my team, or status them out. On one hand my entire team has a divine theme going on (Priest, High Priest, something-clericy, demon slayer, monk, white dragon) and their resistance to magic is quite good, as is the healing since everyone but Monk can heal!

But on the other hand I really need something in there to prevent a rapid-speed beatdown, and I'm not sure I have any of that. Suggestions? I could remove Nall and Monk to swap in a 2.0 or below instead, but not too sure how effective that'd be.


... actually, how do people feel about speed up (doubles speed) affecting Sasarai's charge times? He has an average of 44, and uh, there's a charge speed of 51 on Land of Eternity. If he's sped up, would you take that as a 25.5 charge time cast? (which is way better than average!)

[Nephrite]

I don't think I'd see any speed up working on Sasarai. (Maybe the sealstone?)

Oh and TEAR'S SPEED CAST SPELL

[Bardiche]

I need Sasarai's resourceless to spam Land of Eternity, unless there's a way to replenish his charges. He gets six shots of Earthquake by endgame which means he can open each fight with one, but he'd only have one or two shots of Land of Eternity - the team's setup to take advantage of his OHKO MT damage supplemented by a shot of 2HKO damage. Monk's just there to hit the magically resistant or anything that is able to survive Sasarai's onslaught.

I might need to swap out Eiko for Tear for MP HEALING or something.

[Dhyerwolf]

A speed doubling spell should put Sasarai near 180%ish speed, since LoE translates to like 90% speed or something. There are some fast people up to a 2 worth if you drop Nall/Monk (Arnaud, Ayla, Crono, Jane...just working down the list)

[Bardiche]

Decided to drop Nall/Monk for Jane, and Billy for Ivan for speeeeeed, which my team otherwise sorely lacks. Other options are to put in Mime, so that after Jane's Follow Me!, it'd be Sasarai -> Land Of Eternity, Mime -> Mimic Land Of Eternity, Sacred Slayer -> Turn Shift:Sasarai -> Earthquake.

Of course, that'd do around 2~3x PCHP damage and I think that's a bit overkill much. I'd have to swap out Eiko or something and that's a trade I'm not ready to make!



Been thinking, though; this team relies completely on magical offence. Is it possible to create a team centred around PHYSICAL OFFENCE?!?!

Idea would be Chris, Raquel, That S3 Girl With The Absurd Phys Attack, Jane. Chris runs with Resourceless to spam Silent Lake like you would not believe (alternate with heals), Jane ensures Chris gets to open with that, Raquel and That Other Girl go roundhouse on the enemies. Problem is that I suspect bosses will still hurt a great, great deal. Would such a team be feasible, preferably without using Jane even?

[dude789]

I think Deis2  has a lot of synergy with a physical team. Attack Up is nuts and she provides enough magical offense to get you past physical immunity. In particular, you'd probably want to find someone with a MT physical attack or someone with a MT physical skill.

[Dhyerwolf]

Chris runs with Resourceless to spam Silent Lake like you would not believe (alternate with heals)

To a degree, I would indeed not believe it because that it laaaaaaaaate (Only when she gets TWR). The physical team seems like the type where something bad match up wise could send them out early given uh...that's some really, really bad healing there (literally one shot of ST healing until very very late). No revival until very late period. I honestly believe that even with floor 1 somewhat weaker than it was before, this team would likely fizzle out (Definitely would to be thanks to Shana having starting SP, but the Rand/Duran/Cecil match isn't to this team's liking. Emily and Chris both need a little time to get some power, Jane needs 4 floors, Raquel is Raquel speed.

[Bardiche]

Oh right, I forgot Chris doesn't actually -start- with the True Water Rune. That does put a damper on the strategy... but it can basically also be replaced by anyone able to remove the magic vulnerability problem. It's probably a more sensible choice to go for that, although Silent Lake also provides protection against status ailments.

I think Deis is interesting, but beyond turn 1 she'd be useless if a Silent Lake strategy is adopted. Hence why I didn't really pick any casters. (granted, Jane'd also be useless beyond turn 1, but c'est la vie. Guess she's better off replaced by Tidus for Haste shenanigans)

[Yoshiken]

I'm curious how people see Pokemon under Silent Lake. Could be really good or really bad, depending on whether you only remove Special Attacks, limit them to just Physical Attacks, or force them to use Struggle.

[Nephrite]

I personally see it as only allowing things that run off physical attacks (even then those are a little wonky but I'm pretty sure Silent Lake allowed command runes)

[dude789]

I would love to see a good Purim/Jane team if someone can make one. The biggest challenge is finding characters who can cancel out their weakness early on but the synergy those two have is completely nuts.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Oh right, I forgot Chris doesn't actually -start- with the True Water Rune. That does put a damper on the strategy...s)

Last it was brought up, Neph said that Chris gets to start with the TWR specifically so that she can actually have access to her signature skillset early on since otherwise she's pretty obsolete as a Dungeon pick, especially for her cost. I was intending to run a team with her using Resourceless but then he shuffled a lot of my other picks for that team, so I dropped it. It's notable that Chris gets a single L3 charge by the end of her Chapter 1 section (I had pulled up a LP video documenting it somewhere in this topic I think?). Important for F2 and on Silent Lake shenanigans.

[Dhyerwolf]

The guideline state she starts with an extra Water Rune and TWR is listed as "late" for a con, so it may have just been that. Also, SL isn't L3 for Chris. It's either a non existant L4 on Water Rune or L2 on TWR. Also, uh...you know that you may have watched a video using a trick to powerlevel? Because...I'm very suspicious otherwise, because Chris probably needs to be approximately L35 on average to get an L1.

[DjinnAndTonic]

You're right, I totally misremembered the slot number. She has a L2 slot by the end of her first chapter (thinking on it, this makes much more sense). This would be important if she starts with the TWR. But yeah, looking at the latest update on the wiki, she just starts with a Water Rune... which uh... well, at least with Resourceless it means she has one shot of Breath of Ice! per battle.... >.>;;

Seriously, for her cost, she needs to be starting with the TWR... >.>;;

[Nephrite]

I think I can make that change.

[Talaysen]

It's impossible to get TWR in-game before chapter 3 or whenever so that should be when it is allowed.  Lowering her cost or maybe giving her other runes that you CAN have at the beginning of the game are much better ideas.

[Nephrite]

Well, to be fair, Sasarai doesn't really start with the True Earth Rune either. I could definitely see lowering her to a 2.0 and giving her the normal Water Rune, would that be better?

[DjinnAndTonic]

I would err on the side of "More unique party member". SL is the main reason anyone would want to use her, and I don't think anyone will bother with her when Aika does SL better and earlier and for fewer points.

And it's not like you don't have some unusual interps for a few duelists anyway... stuff like Athos comes to mind.

[Dhyerwolf]

I'll admit, I was really confused as to her current pricing already starting with a Water Rune, but it's probably because the inclusion of a Water Rune on her is pretty baffling. She has atrocious magic, and basically she a piddly number of ST healing charges and nothing else. That she's able to use TWR to any degree is solely the awesomeness of the rune overpowering her deficiency.

[dude789]

Just some random thoughts for characters.

Vanille (FF13) 3.5
Pros: Completely brutal status. Deprotect/Deshell/Imperil cause a teams damage to skyrocket and the rest of the status is good too. Ravager can slowly increase a team's damage until it becomes overwhelming. Infinite healing, and her TP techniques are great in a crisis.
Cons: Unimpressive durability, average speed and bad damage before debuffs. Healing is infinite but pretty bad early on. Her summon isn't picked up till late.

Carver (DQ5) 2.0
Pros: Great durability and damage. Forbearance can give you a firefly effect without taking up the sealstone and it works great with his hp. Double Up can help with his speed.
Cons: Bad speed without Double Up which causes him to take double damage for the turn. Very one dimensional.

Celine (SO2) .5
Pros: Good MT damage until floor 4 or so. Gets lots of neat spells like Angel Feather and Anti earlier than Rena.
Cons: Is a SO2 mage which means that her damage is really bad late. Spellcasting times mean her speed is at best average and at worst hideous.

[Nephrite]

I'm all for FF13 if we have the people to support it.

[Dhyerwolf]

Dungeon is all about unloading nasty stuff quickly, which makes Vanille bad at a 3.5. Not to mention that it probably takes her quite a while to get good at anything.