Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Brainstorming Topic!

[Talaysen]

From what I recall, every PC that has Authority active will cause a game over when killed so I think that's how it should be handled.  It does work differently for enemies, sure, but I'm not convinced that is enough reason to take it another way.

[SnowFire]

It's true, but as noted, a Lyn or Ephraim death is also always game over...  even on the Eirika path / in Eliwood's chapter, I believe.  And Elincia death in Tibarn-as-leader's chapters is also Game Over.  Which is why I think the acceptable compromise is to not game over on death (since that's already patched by the Dungeon in the same way as Lyn / Ephraim, or in Moulder not perma-deathing forever), but to lose the Authority bonus the rest of the fight on death.

[DjinnAndTonic]

It sounds really well thought-out to me, SnowFire. MOAR Dungeon FE! Tanith AND Elincia! Reason to use the Vantage Sealstone!

I'm for all of this.

[dude789]

Caineghis could also be a really interesting 4.0 pick. Pretty much invincible for the first few floors but lacks the ability to counter magic like Athos can. Still incredibly tough to kill with physicals late, but fire magic can take him out and he lacks any sort of support for the team. I just want someone who has his level of physical defense in the dungeon (10x average pdur is pretty nuts and it's even better earlier).

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Fogel waves and blows kisses from his balcony.

[SnowFire]

Caineghis is definitely someone who should obviously be scaled against joining time, which is literally the endgame anyway, so not sure I'm on board with "invincible early."  Granted he'll ROFLstomp the early floors anyway just because the earlier floors are easier and are unlikely to have powerful, accurate fire mages, so.

Not really a fan of Fogel in the dungeon, he's a boring pile of high stats + OB interp headaches.  Cain would at least be an interesting alternative, and has some interesting features, like fire weakness + counters.  Only possible worry: Firefly Sealstone is *busted* on Cain, since anyone non-ranged throws themselves into the wood chipper basically with their first attack.  I suppose Firefly / Eph and Firefly / FF1 Knight already exist, but Cain is unusually good at the whole not-dying thing.  Then throw in Firefly Cain + Aika/Chris/other magic hosers, and have fun as long as Cain isn't fighting, uh, Haste / Enfired Sazh or something weird like that.

[dude789]

I think as it is now Firefly only draws the first attack from the opponent. Checking his stats, comparing him to endgame is probably better. I didn't realize his damage was that good, but his Mdur is worse than I remembered. Also, I thought it was funny, but Yukiko has a solid argument for beating him if you let her have the auto life. Agidyne barely OHKOs if you leave Souji out of the averages.

[Dhyerwolf]

I'm assuming it's the letting him other pure short range fighters that's what makes it very off (And wow, that would be a way to really dislike him dungeonwise easily!).

[Nephrite]

I'm not sure I want to add too many more "scaled to endgame" types... and I'm not sure how well Fogel even functions in that regard.

[DjinnAndTonic]

I'm all for "Replace Fogel with Caineghis" if only because Caineghis is an easier interp.

Dungeon FE ranking time? Add Elincia, Cain, Tanith, Nils!, Micaiah

[Nephrite]

I would be fine with replacing Fogel with Cain, for what it's worth.

What does Micaiah do that someone like Moulder doesn't, besides Sacrifice?

I think I'd be fine with adding Tanith, although her actual usability... I dunno. GIVE HER INSANITY MODE SUMMONS ON FLOOR 8?!

[Random Consonant]

What does Micaiah do that someone like Moulder doesn't, besides Sacrifice?

Have offense and healing combination earlier, killer RES, a luck stat, offense is good early.  Gets Nosferatu eventually, Sacrifice cures status, chance of Corona activating at Tier 3 which ignores RES (granted Micaiah's tier 3 promotion is at the cusp of endgame).  Anything else depends on if you let her play with skills or not, Micaiah with Resolve or Wrath would probably be funny.

[SnowFire]

dude: See Dhyer.  Firefly Cain only needs the first attack if every random fighter dork gets mauled by him on the counter, any sort of MT cleanup will finish the job.  And this is rocket-tag DL so just the first attack is still pretty powerful, although that's more an attribute of Firefly than Cain.

Not really a huge fan of Tanith, myself.  Very swingy ability of hers and it just doesn't translate amazingly well to the dungeon (although certainly better than Summoner Knoll as discussed).  It's already a lot to keep track of 5 characters, keeping track of 8, along with weirdness considering that the riders are explicitly AI-controlled...  eh.

Also Micaiah is slower than Moulder, so is more likely to explode.  I'd lean toward her being a 0.5 as well.  Still, we can always have both.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Not really a huge fan of Tanith, myself.  Very swingy ability of hers and it just doesn't translate amazingly well to the dungeon (although certainly better than Summoner Knoll as discussed).  It's already a lot to keep track of 5 characters, keeping track of 8, along with weirdness considering that the riders are explicitly AI-controlled...  eh.

Not sure how -any- FE character is that much an interp issue, Nino aside. I mean, we have Wizard of Oz PCs with their weird multi-turning, and Radiant Historia and FF13 offer lots of weird turn interps. Keeping track of an extra PC or two whose only function is "basic attack with a single weapon type" is nothing.

[ThePiggyman]

Idly, how would Reinforce work? Fire Emblem characters are typically seen as average speed (with long-range magic and characters with high movement being the exception for some), so would Tanith only be able to Reinforce on her presumably average-speed turn? And would the reinforcements be able to attack immediately after being summoned, or would you need to wait until next turn before they move?

Reinforcements typically have their own action phase in a Fire Emblem game that is before the enemy's turn, but after the player's turn. Turn order plays a big factor in a lot of matches, as we've seen, and I'm not quite sure where reinforcements would fall in.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

I'd peg them as average-losing-tiebreaks, going after Tanith. Pretty simple.

[Dark Holy Elf]

I'd see them acting immediately after Tanith; you can -always- direct the yellow units before enemies have a chance to attack them, in-game, and I'd want to preserve that distinction in the dungeon.

[Magic Fanatic]

Two team ideas I'd like some feedback on, if possible.

This one just got buried in FE talk:

Deis1 (3.5)
Rydia+Rosa (2.5)
Hilda (2.0)
Jane (2.0)
Nall (1.0)

Resourceless starting on...  I guess Deis or Rydia, maybe Jane for a dump character until Jane picks up Follow Me, which then transfers the stone to Hilda and then proceeds to just smash fights.  Deis carries me until I get far enough for Follow Me.  Nall makes sure my dangerous speedsters can get a turn before they have to die again.

Next idea:

Blue Mage (3.0)
Yosuke (2.0)
Crowley (2.0)
White Rose (2.0)
Blanca (1.5)

Elemental Advance

Wind is not a commonly-resisted element in most games, so seeing the power stack up pretty quickly is going to be a thing.  Of course, Yosuke's Lightning weakness is going to SUCK, but he's fast, and might get the drop on a lot of enemies.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

On the first team: Resourceless -universally- fails on that team. The sealstone is meant to be used mostly on Suikomages, who can then use their L4s more liberally. The second one... lack of elemental variety to abuse Elemental Advance in multiple folds is bad. The team itself has issues anyhow - durability woes and late non-WR revival/late MT healing period. Blue Mage being below average speed also kinda sucks.

[Magic Fanatic]

On the first team: Resourceless -universally- fails on that team. The sealstone is meant to be used mostly on Suikomages, who can then use their L4s more liberally.

Well, the only idea for Resourceless on the first team is having Hilda able to cast Entrance on every fight and still be able to do other stuff.  Aside from that...  Yeah.

In any case, the second team also has revival in Blanca later, Crowley, Blanca, and Blue Mage each pick up MT Healing...  But I do agree that durability on that team kinda fails.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Yeah, the issue is that Blanca's MT healing is really late and his revival isn't amazingly early, Blue Mage's MT healing... wait, lemme check if FF5 White Wind is based on the caster's mHP like it is on other games. It's better if not, but otherwise, that's not very fun. Crowley's charges on his MT healing are also quite limited (four to six charges at endgame! Great considering L4 charges, but not good healing outside of an emergency button. Funnily, though, give him Life and suddenly you have MT revival+3HKO damage+MT 50% healing of doom! That's cool for someone who isn't supposed to be a dedicated healer) and his durability is awful (you don't want to rely on limited, horrendously frail healing). The thing about the lack of elemental variety biting the team in the ass still stands, but Elemental Advance just isn't an amazing sealstone to build a team upon. It's insanely hard to build a team with strong, varied elemental offense throughout.

[Dark Holy Elf]

FF5 White Wind healing is equal to the caster's current HP.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Eeeeeeeew.

[Magic Fanatic]

On the first team: Resourceless -universally- fails on that team.

It's mostly for Hilda to keep casting Entrance, since that's going to be her most expensive spell.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Better idea to have a MP healer if you're going to rely on Entrance (although you really shouldn't, Hilda's not fast enough to allow a good single Entrance => death blitz as a rule of thumb). Also, you did mention that before.