Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Brainstorming Topic!

[Nephrite]

On that note, is there any interest in a Golden Sun project PC? Maybe Isaac with access to whatever Djinn he'd like (limited by floor, I'd assume... so he can have 7 Djinn on floor 6 or something)

[Clear Tranquil]

Yay or Nay to Maria with Common Support Symbols Neph? =)

[Nephrite]

Does that change her rank much? I can't really remember the conversation on it.

[Random Consonant]

On that note, is there any interest in a Golden Sun project PC? Maybe Isaac with access to whatever Djinn he'd like (limited by floor, I'd assume... so he can have 7 Djinn on floor 6 or something)

Would TLA stuff be considered post-game for him, then, or is that just going to be ignored entirely?  Either way, it doesn't sound like a bad idea, but I'm not really sure how much milage he'd get from it.

[Clear Tranquil]

Does that change her rank much? I can't really remember the conversation on it.

There really wasn't one that I remember  It shouldn't though no, yeah it gives her Healing but she's still slow and frail =P I suggested from 2.0 to 2.5?

Edit: Or alternatively Common Attack Symbols for her or Peppita could be a good idea too hmmm.

[Nephrite]

On that note, is there any interest in a Golden Sun project PC? Maybe Isaac with access to whatever Djinn he'd like (limited by floor, I'd assume... so he can have 7 Djinn on floor 6 or something)

Would TLA stuff be considered post-game for him, then, or is that just going to be ignored entirely?  Either way, it doesn't sound like a bad idea, but I'm not really sure how much milage he'd get from it.

Good... question. I'll have to think about that.

[Taishyr]

A GS char would be cool, sure. Lower playership, but still, would be interesting to see executed in the Dungeon.

[dude789]

On the subject of new characters for the dungeon, I think that Paper Mario could be an interesting 4.0 pick.

Paper Mario (Paper Mario the Thousand Year door)-4.0
Pros: Versatile with some very powerful options. Can be a tank, a brutal glass cannon, or an effective all-rounder. Crystal star abilities are powerful and useful in a variety of situations. He has a huge variety of unique status effects and stat breaks. Can change his abilities for whatever is needed.
Cons: He's average speed and vulnerable to most statuses. For most setups he will have to sacrifice something which can lead to awful durability or huge resource issues. Takes a while to get some of the really good badges and crystal star powers.

I'm curious to see how everyone views his partner badges. If they allow them to affect the whole team I think that could give him a really interesting niche. Being able to give teams a permanent, unremovable buff like 15% more HP or a roughly 10% increase in attack power is unique without being overpowered especially when you consider that Paper Mario has to sacrifice badge points for it.     

[DjinnAndTonic]

The Paper Mario partner badges are a cool idea. Kind of reminds me of the OB Princess party speed boost.

How well played is PM in the DL, though? I didn't think Gamecube titles were very commonly played?

[Yoshiken]

That seems like a pretty damn interesting idea - easily manipulated for a team, but easily screwed over by the dungeon as well.
This would also give me a reason to finish this game.

[dude789]

The Paper Mario partner badges are a cool idea. Kind of reminds me of the OB Princess party speed boost.

How well played is PM in the DL, though? I didn't think Gamecube titles were very commonly played?

I don't know how well it's played, but we have ranked a Gamecube game, and I think some of the dungeon picks are even more obscure.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Fair point.

Speaking of obscure dungeon picks, I have about half of that GS character mapped out.

I went with Ivan instead of Isaac, because I thought the speed + status/healing options would be more interesting than durability/damage.

[Yoshiken]

I can't help but feel a DDS/DDS2 character could be good for this. Let them have, say, 2 Mantra per floor, with Floor 1 being just their starting Mantra. The character chosen could be anyone depending on how high we need new characters. Need a Heavy/Godlike? Give them free reign over Seraph's stat distribution as well. Looking for some interesting Light? Gale with only one Mantra per floor and his innate weakness to Lightning, a pretty common type.

y/n? If it's all good, I'll be happy to get hold of all the details and sort out what should be allowed when.

[074]

Yoshiken: I put up a theoretical floorplot for Cielo a while back, complete with Mantra pathsplit.  Not a project character (and technically, he'd start with a lot more than I'm giving), but I still think he'd be interesting:

http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=1736.msg31863#msg31863

[Nephrite]

I had forgotten about that. I can probably add it without too much of a problem.

[Bardiche]

Djinn, Isaac can revive and heal, too, can't he?

[DjinnAndTonic]

Djinn, Isaac can revive and heal, too, can't he?

Yep. His base class has Revive, I'm pretty sure. Though anyone in GS can get Revival and Healing with different Djinni combinations. I chose Ivan primarily for speed. It makes Ivan most useful as a status whore with LOTS of status options. Revive and Healing are just good for rounding out his skillset as a 4.0 pick.

He's kind of a Blue/Rika variant - lots of buffs and options, but somewhat frail. His speed is what sells him and probably makes him a better choice than Isaac. If both were available in the Dungeon, I know I'd pick Ivan just for the speed-status whoring. He might have resource issues until he gets a lot of Djinni, though. Hmm...

[Bardiche]

Isaac might be a bit more of a fun choice, then, personally. I mean, frail speedy Healers are awesome and all, but if you want a durable one you need to get Jessica Alkirk in the current roster. Isaac'd at least give a little diversity but uh, apparently he's above average HP/def/speed, so that might kind of push him into a costly point total.

Would Neph be willing to put both in? You can keep Ivan a little cooler by allowing him all Djinni and Isaac only the Earth-related Djinni? Ivan's Djinni will be better than Isaac's that way.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Ivan and Isaac get basically opposite class selection abilities. To have both of them in would basically represent the entire GS class options. Which... would be cool... but damn it's hard mapping out a GS character's options.

Here's my attempt. Tables could make it more space-efficient.

(V=Venus, Ma=Mars, Me=Mercury, J=Jupiter)

Floor 1:
Available Djinni: None

Wind Seer series skills:
Whirlwind
Ray
Ray is good GT damage for this floor.

Floor 2:
Available Djinni: 2V, 1Ma, 1J
Flint - Venus/physical damage
Forge - Mars - Attack buff +67, MT (25%)   
Gust - Jupiter/magic damage
Granite - Venus - Halves damage taken, MT

Wind Seer series skills: 0-1J
Plasma
Storm Ray
Sleep
Plasma is great full MT Thunder damage for the floor. 90% GT Sleep

Pilgrim series skills: 1Ma
Slash
Wind Slash
Plasma
Plasma is great damage for the floor, Slash series is wind-elemental GT physical damage should Ivan need it. Pilgrim class gets decent ATK boosts, so this damage is passable, but Ivan's better off with spells.

Seer series (Seer, Diviner) skills: 1-2V
Cure
Bolt
Growth
Flash Bolt
Cure Well
Mad Growth   
ST full healing (150HP is full at this floor)! Above average magic damage (Thunder and Grass/Earth)

Floor 3:
Available Djinni: 2V, 2Ma, 3J, 2Me   
Breeze - Jupiter - Resistances +40, MT   
Fever - Mars/physical damage, inflicts Delusion ~100%
Fizz - Mercury - Full healing
Sleet - Mercury/magic, drops Attack by 25%
Zephyr - Jupiter - Agility +203, MT (100%)

Wind Seer series (Wind Seer, Magician) skills: 0-3J
Impact
Tornado
Bind
Damage is above average here, ST ATK buff, Bind is 80% ST Silence

Pilgrim series (Pilgrim, Wanderer) skills: 1-2Ma
Bind
80% ST Silence, Damage is above average here.

Seer series (Seer, Diviner) skills: 1-2V
Bind
80% ST Silence, Damage is average-ish here, still has full healing to average, almost full for high-HP types.

Hermit series (Hermit, Elder) skills: 1-2Me
Impact
Prism
Plasma
Bind
Damage is above average (Thunder and Ice magic), plus the always useful 80% ST Silence (Bind)

Floor 4:
Available Djinni: 5V, 4Ma, 4J, 4Me
Quartz - Venus - Fully Revives a downed target to 50% MHP
Mist - Mercury - Sleep ~95%
Corona - Mars - Defense +54, MT (25%)
Spritz - Mercury - Heals 126 HP, MT (30%)
Smog - Jupiter/physical damage, inflicts Delusion ~100%
Vine - Venus - Drops Agility by 50%
Scorch - Mars/physical damage, inflicts Stun ~95%
Sap - Venus/physical damage, heals user for ~100 HP

Wind Seer (Wind Seer, Magician, Mage) skills: 0-4J
Ward
High Impact
Resist
Damage is averageish now, GT ATK/DEF buffs are okay.

Pilgrim (Pilgrim, Wanderer, Ascetic) skills: 1-4Ma
Volcano
Eruption
Ward
Resist
Damage is above average thanks to Eruption, which is MT fire magic. At this point, Ivan has better class options, but if he really needs Fire elemental damage for this floor, this class is available.

Seer (Seer, Diviner, Shaman) skills: 1-5V
Revive
Ward
Blue Bolt
Resist
ST Full Revival! Damage is decent again! Some meh GT DEF buffs. Healing is still decent, but not full here.

Hermit (Hermit, Elder, Scholar) skills: 1-4Me
Wish
High Impact
Hail Prism
Wish Well
MT Full Healing off of Ivan's speed is awesome. Hail Prism is great MT (Ice) damage for this floor.

Medium skills: 3V, 3Me
Bolt
Froth
Cure
Flash Bolt
Cure Well
Froth Sphere
Haunt
Revive
Curse
Blue Bolt
ST Full Revival! Almost Full ST Healing! Crappy Status (though rare!) Blue Bolt is decent damage at this point.

Ranger skills: 3Ma, 3Me
Slash
Douse
Ward
Volcano
Wind Slash
Drench
Bind
Eruption
Resist
Average-ish physical wind damage, Good GT Fire magic damage, some below-average Water GT magic damage, 80% ST Silence!

White Mage skills: 4Me, 3V Ivan's awesome class!
Cure Poison
Prism
Plasma
Ward
Dull
Wish
Restore
Revive
Hail Prism
Wish Well
Full ST Revive! Full MT Healing! Full ST Status Healing! Dull lowers enemy ATK 25% (stackable!), Hail Prism is great MT Ice magic damage for this floor!


Floor 5:
Available Djinni: 6V, 5Ma, 5J, 5Me
Kite - Jupiter - Act twice next action
Ember - Mars - Heals 9 PP, MT (7%)
Ground - Venus - Paralyzes ~90%
Hail - Mercury/magic damage, drops Defense by 25%

Wind Seer (Wind Seer, Magician, Mage) skills: 0-5J
Shine Plasma
Great MT damage again!

Pilgrim (Pilgrim, Wanderer, Ascetic) skills: 1-5Ma
Sonic Slash
Shine Plasma
Great MT damage for the floor! GT wind phyiscal damage if needed.

Seer (Seer, Diviner, Shaman, Druid) skills: 1-6V, 1J
Potent Cure
Wild Growth
Drain
Full ST healing again! Damage is still decent (Grass/Earth or Thunder elemental magic)

Hermit (Hermit, Elder, Scholar, Savant) skills: 1-5Me
Shine Plasma
Break
Drain
Great MT (Thunder) damage for the floor, still has full MT Healing, Break is MT 100% Dispel

Medium skills: 3V, 3Me
Potent Cure
Condemn
Drain
Average damage, Full ST Healing/Revival, 30% ID

Ranger skills: 3Ma, 3Me
Sonic Slash
Deluge
Above average MT damage (wind physical and water magical)

White Mage skills: 4Me, 3V Ivan's awesome class!
Shine Plasma
Resist
All of the previous White Mage skills + great MT thunder damage and an okay MT DEF buff

Enchanter (Venus) skills: 6V (Really more of an Isaac class, but Ivan can load himself up with Venus Djinni to do this)
Delude
Impact
Gaia
Ward
Weaken
Astral Blast
Sleep
Haunt
Curse
High Impact
Resist
Mother Gaia
Enfeeble
Drain
Delude lowers accuracy for basic physicals, Weaken lowers DEF by 40 (stackable!), 90% GT Sleep!, decent MT ATK/DEF buffs, Haunt/Curse are worthless status, Mother Gaia is above-average MT earth magic damage, Astral Blast is decent Thunder physical damage


Floor 6:
Available Djinni: 7V, 7Ma, 6J, 6Me
Squall - Jupiter - Paralysis ~90%
Flash - Mars - Reduces damage taken by 90%
Bane - Venus/physical damage, inflicts Deadly Poison ~80%
Dew - Mercury - Fully Revives a downed target to 100% MHP
Torch - Mars/physical damage, ITD

Wind Seer (Wind Seer, Magician, Mage, Magister) skills: 0-6J
Destruct Ray
Cost-efficient GT damage!

Pilgrim (Pilgrim, Wanderer, Ascetic, Fire Monk) skills: 1-6Ma, 1J
Drain
Damage is above average still, Drain is ~10% damage/restore. Useless.

Seer (Seer, Diviner, Shaman, Druid) skills: 1-6V, 1J
PsyDrain
Damage is average-ish here, Full ST revival/healing still, PsyDrain is ~10% MP drainage

Hermit (Hermit, Elder, Scholar, Savant, Sage) skills: 1-6Me, 1J
No new skills.
Damage and Healing are still above average and MT.

Medium skills: 3V, 3Me
PsyDrain
Below average damage, Full ST Healing/Revival, 30% ID

Ranger skills: 3Ma, 3Me
Break
Average-ish MT damage (wind physical or water magic), MT 100% Dispel

White Mage skills: 4Me, 3V Ivan's awesome class!
Blunt
Blunt is a GT 12.5% ATK debuff, Damage is above average here, MT healing is almost full. ST Full Revival and Status healing.

Enchanter (Venus) skills: 6V
PsyDrain
Basically the same as the previous floor, only damage is about average-ish. And he has the godly PsyDrain >.>;

Enchanter (Mars) skills: 6Ma (Really more of a Garet class, but Ivan can load himself up with Mars Djinni to do this)
Delude
Guard
Impact
Ward
Volcano
Weaken
Astral Blast
Sleep
Protect
High Impact
Resist
Eruption
Enfeeble
Drain
Guard is a 25% DEF buff (stackable!), Delude reduces accuracy of basic physicals, some MT DEF/ATK buffs, an okay DEF debuff, 90% GT Sleep!, Average-ish MT Fire magic damage, below average ST Thunder physical damage

Floor 7:
Available Djinni: 7V, 7Ma, 7J, 7Me
Tonic - Mercury - Heals status effects, MT
Luff - Jupiter - Silence ~90%

Wind Seer (Wind Seer, Magician, Mage, Magister) skills: 0-6J (can add any 7th Djinn)
Tempest
Damage is only slight above average here, that hurts.

Pilgrim (Pilgrim, Wanderer, Ascetic, Fire Monk) skills: 1-6Ma, 1J
PsyDrain
Damage is average-ish now, PsyDrain is slightly more useful ~10% MP drainage

Seer (Seer, Diviner, Shaman, Druid) skills: 1-6V, 1J
No new skills
Damage is lagging, Still a fast, fairly durable healer/reviver

Hermit (Hermit, Elder, Scholar, Savant, Sage) skills: 1-6Me, 1J
PsyDrain
Pure Wish
Full MT Healing again! Damage is average-ish here.

Medium skills: 3V, 3Me (can add any non-Mercury 7th Djinn)
Froth Spiral
Slightly above average MT damage, Full ST Healing/Revival

Ranger skills: 3Ma, 3Me (can add any 7th Djinn)
PsyDrain
Below average MT damage (Water magical or Wind physical)

White Mage skills: 4Me, 3V Ivan's awesome class!
No new skills
MT Damage is average, MT healing is about 70%.

Enchanter (Venus) skills: 6V (can add any non-Jupiter 7th Djinn)
No new skills
Same as previous floor, only damage is below average

Enchanter (Mars) skills: 6Ma (can add any non-Jupiter 7th Djinn)
PsyDrain
Same as previous floor, only damage is less potent.


Floor 8:
All Djinni Available: 7V, 7Ma, 7J, 7Me

Wind Seer (Wind Seer, Magician, Mage, Magister) skills: 0-6J (can add any 7th Djinn)
Spark Plasma
Great MT damage again!

Pilgrim (Pilgrim, Wanderer, Ascetic, Fire Monk) skills: 1-6Ma, 1J
Pyroclasm
Spark Plasma
Great MT damage again! In Thunder and Fire flavors!

Seer (Seer, Diviner, Shaman, Druid) skills: 1-6V, 1J
No new skills.
Damage is below average. Healing is about 70%. Get a new class.

Hermit (Hermit, Elder, Scholar, Savant, Sage) skills: 1-6Me, 1J
Spark Plasma
Freeze Prism
Full MT Healing and 2nd-gamebest magic damage (MT, Ice or Thunder)

Medium skills: 3V, 3Me (can add any non-Mercury 7th Djinn)
No new skills.
Average damage (MT, Ice), Full ST Healing/Revival, 30% ID.

Ranger skills: 3Ma, 3Me (can add any 7th Djinn)
Pyroclasm
Good MT Fire magic damage GET! Pilgrim series actually outclasses this one by having two high-level elemental magic spells. And Enchanter (Mars) has better buffs and status. Only use this one if you REALLY need a dispel ability and Fire elemental damage.

White Mage skills: 4Me, 3V Ivan's awesome class!
Spark Plasma
Pure Wish
Freeze Prism
Awesome MT magic damage (Thunder or Ice), MT Full Healing, ST Full Revival and Status Healing, some ATK debuffs and MT DEF buffs

Enchanter (Venus) skills: 6V (can add any non-Jupiter 7th Djinn)
Grand Gaia
Same as the previous floor, but Gamebest damage here. (MT, earth)

Enchanter (Mars) skills: 6Ma (can add any non-Jupiter 7th Djinn)
Pyroclasm
Same as previous floor, but good MT Fire magic damage. Useless unless you really like Fire Djinni.

Suggested builds:
Healing
Wind Seer (Floor 1)
Seer (Floor 2)
Diviner (Seer2) (Floor 3)
White Mage (Floors 4/5)
Medium (Better speed/damage on floor 6, though not MT Healing)
Hermit OR Medium (Hermit gets Full MT Healing sooner than White Mage though lacks revival, Medium gets Full ST Healing and ST Revival)
White Mage (Floor 8)

Status Whoring/Debuffing
Wind Seer (Floors 1/2)
Magician (Wind Seer2) (Floor 3)
Ranger (Djinni selection allows for the most number of MT Statuses on Floor 4)
White Mage (Djinni selection gives most statuses, Floors 5/6)
Ranger (Djinni selection gives most statuses, Floors 7/8)

Damage
Wind Seer (Floors 1/2)
Magician OR Elder (Hermit2) (Floor 3)
Scholar (Hermit3) OR White Mage (Floors 4/5/6)
Magister OR Medium (Floor 7)
Enchanter Venus (most damage) OR White Mage (2 elements) (Floor 8)

Mix and Match for what you need most for a particular floor!

I refuse to do this for Isaac, too. This took too long. All information compiled from Golden Sun wikia's comprehensive Psynergy/Class/Levels/Djinni lists. No clue about equips here, but they largely don't matter compared to class/Djinn unleashes.

[Dhyerwolf]

Isaac might be a bit more of a fun choice, then, personally. I mean, frail speedy Healers are awesome and all, but if you want a durable one you need to get Jessica Alkirk in the current roster. Isaac'd at least give a little diversity but uh, apparently he's above average HP/def/speed, so that might kind of push him into a costly point total.

Would Neph be willing to put both in? You can keep Ivan a little cooler by allowing him all Djinni and Isaac only the Earth-related Djinni? Ivan's Djinni will be better than Isaac's that way.

Jessica is a bit below average on durability overall (bit better than Rena, but not massively). Percival would be a decent example of a durable healer (But no revival!) or Rand (Sooo slow and still no revival!). Not sure there's really a full package healer that just really a healer.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Dragon-less Ryu3?

[Taishyr]

Arguably slow for a fair bit early on, healing's a bit slow to come IIRC? But yeah, he's actually a pretty competent healer.

[Dhyerwolf]

I'd imagine there are others if you remove a notable part of their skillset like that though!

[DjinnAndTonic]

...but he's already a Dungeon pick without dragons... >.>;;

Ryu, Breath of Fire 3 (No Dragons)=

Pros: Fully capable healer with decent melee and defense stats. Speed is also pretty great.
Cons: Starts a bit slow in terms of usefulness. Revival is only a chance to revive at first.

[Bardiche]

Curiousity: when a Fire Emblem character is attacked with an MT attack, do they... Counter?