Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Brainstorming Topic!

[dude789]

What if we gave him Persoan's required for the Empress link and a couple others here and there.
This would give him

Floor 1:
Izanagi
Resist-Elec, Nulll- Dark, Weak-Wind
Skills: Zio, Cleave, Rakukaja, Tarukaja,Rakunda
Stats: Average in everything

 Ippon Datara
Resist-Fire, Null-Dark, Weak-Light
Skills: Mudo, Maragi, Mamudo, Agilao, Rampage, Mudo Boost, Sukukaja
Stats: High Strength and Endurance, low magic

Floor 2: Matador
Repel-Dark, Weak-Fire
Skills: Mamudo, Swift Strike, Dekunda, Mudo Boost, Auto Suku, Rampage,  Survive Light, Mahama
Stats: High Agility, low magic

Floor 3: Gdon
Absorb-Fire, Weak-Ice
Skills: Agilao, Maragi, Fire Break, Maragion, Evade Ice, Rampage, Fire Boost
Stats: High Strength, low magic

Floor 4: Neko Shogun
Resist-Physical,  Null-Dark, Light, Reflect- Elec, Weak-Wind
Skills: Zionga, Elec Boost, Black Spot, Mediarama, Matarukaja, Evade Wind, Divine Grace, Bufula
Stats: High strength, low luck

Black Frost:
Absorb Fire and Ice, Reflect Darkness
Skills:  Maragion, Bufula, Ice Boost, Mind Charge, Masukunda, Fire Amp, Agidyne, Mudoon
Stats:  High Magic, average everywhere else.

Floor 5: Yatagasuru
Resist Wind, Null Light, Weak Ice
Skills: Masukukaja, Nervundi,  Agilao, Null Fear, Diarahan, Cool Breeze,  Megido
Stats: High Agility, Strength and Magic, low luck and endurance

Yatsufusa
Absorb Fire, Reflect Wind, Null Ice
Skills:  Agidyne, Heatwave,  Fire Boost, Masukukaja, Power Charge, Dodge Physical, Maragidyne, Mind Charge, Mediarama
Stats:  High agility, low luck

Floor 6: Ganesha
Weak Elec, Null Wind
Skills: Tetrakarn, Garudyne, Mustard Bomb, Makarakarn, Power Charge, High Counter, Endure, Magarudyne.
Stats: High Strength, Low Agility

Floor 7: Trumpeter
Absorb Ice, Reflect Elec and Light, Null Darkness
Skills: Mind Charge, Megidola, Megidolaon, Heat Riser, Debilitate, Ziodyne, Elec Amp, Cool Breeze, Marakukaja

This set up leaves a couple of holes in Souji’s skillset but it seems like a pretty simple way to interpret him. A couple additional things we could do are let him pick one additional persona on two floors. It would be best if one choice was on an earlier floor and the other is on a later floor. For example on floor 3 or so he would get to pick any level 30 or under persona, and another on floor 8 level 80 or under. This would also work out nicely because he would end up with 12 personas. Additionally, I think with this set up it would be fair if Izanagi evolved if Souji reached floor 10.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Eh. Your list seems pretty comprehensive, but I just don't like the idea of nerfbatting Souji in ways that he can't even be nerfbatted in-game due to instant "zomg persona main" kneejerk when he still has issues in the dungeon (I can't help but feel that he is a lot more likely to be bitten in the ass in the dungeon than he ever would in-game and people aren't accounting for just how badly the dungeon environment can rip into even the strongest duellers or in-game PCs). Honestly, either just let him as he usually is (death = game over and maybe free inheritance excepted) or just don't add him at all. If he is going to lead to that sort of splitting, it's probably not worth adding him at all to boot.

[superaielman]

Souji is flat out the best character in the Dungeon available besides maybe Ryu3 if dragons were allowed or Yuna with Aeons. Getting there's the problem though. I';m fine with Souji dying in some form as game over as a balancing tool.

[dude789]

Eh. Your list seems pretty comprehensive, but I just don't like the idea of nerfbatting Souji in ways that he can't even be nerfbatted in-game due to instant "zomg persona main" kneejerk when he still has issues in the dungeon (I can't help but feel that he is a lot more likely to be bitten in the ass in the dungeon than he ever would in-game and people aren't accounting for just how badly the dungeon environment can rip into even the strongest duellers or in-game PCs). Honestly, either just let him as he usually is (death = game over and maybe free inheritance excepted) or just don't add him at all. If he is going to lead to that sort of splitting, it's probably not worth adding him at all to boot.

Isn't Maya in  a similar situation in that she can use all Personas but she is only given a few for dungeon purposes. With this setup Souji is still a 4.0, but he's less of a research headache and he never becomes a null/reflect/ absorb monster who just immunes whatever the enenies use.

[Talaysen]

Maya doesn't get all personas in the DL.  Souji does.

[Taishyr]

Maya can't use all Personas, even. Certain ones, she can't use. >_> (toomuchdetail) She's given what she has in the Dungeon as an attempt to make her actually useful outside of floors 3-4, and gets only her plot ones as the only ones she has claim to in the DL (since all P2 chars work like Souji or Minato, they get most all the Personas in the game as accessible). Souji... can use anything. No one else can claim them.

[Yoshiken]

I'd seriously struggle to see Souji death = Game Over in the Dungeon, seeing as Dungeon enemies are assumed to have intelligence, whereas P4 randoms will not specifically target Souji, and because statuses like Petrify and Stop (that count as ID) exist.

I.. still think Souji having 1-2 Persona per floor without skill inheritance (or with randomly chosen skill inheritance via Hatbot) would be enough to make him a 4.0. In fact, that major status susceptibility and lack of ID resistance for a while makes him pretty similar to a few of the other project characters there.

[Clear Tranquil]

P4 has status blockers. Granted I don't usually allow them (rarity/forknowledge) Snow might though!
I certainly don't allow the full blockers, I might allow the resist X status by X amount equips though.

[Yoshiken]

Hunh. I never found a full status blocker. Anyways, the individual blockers don't do much, thanks to Persona 4 status being weird and rarely appearing in anything else (outside of Silence), but.. well, I'm guessing the full status blocker is still late-game, meaning he'd be susceptible to status most of the way through.

[Clear Tranquil]

Full status blockers as in individual complete status blockers yeah i.e fully/completely blocks Silence or something yeah >_> I found a multi status blocker in the frue final dungeon =-) It wouldn't surprise me if there was a blocker that blocked everything in there too <_<

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

P4 has status blockers. Granted I don't usually allow them (rarity/forknowledge) Snow might though!
I certainly don't allow the full blockers, I might allow the resist X status by X amount equips though.

P4 statusblockers outside a few resistance armors/weapons are never storebought nor obtained in a reasonably amassable manner. Those are scoff-worthy to me.

[Taishyr]

I in general wouldn't support Souji having death=game over. I... might support death=unrevivable until full heal/end of floor? That'd be interesting, at least, and give the team using him a bit more flexibility.

Re: personas he's allowed, asdf i don't want to think about that right now. >_>

[DjinnAndTonic]

The idea of Souji Death = Game Over is kind of interesting. It would make it almost mandatory to use other P4 PCs with him so that they'd cover the poor bastard. Alternately, maybe give Players the chance to heal Souji? Like... If Souji is Dead at the -End- of a match = Game Over, or something like that?

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

The idea of Souji Death = Game Over is kind of interesting. It would make it almost mandatory to use other P4 PCs with him so that they'd cover the poor bastard. Alternately, maybe give Players the chance to heal Souji? Like... If Souji is Dead at the -End- of a match = Game Over, or something like that?

That doesn't change much. Keeping him unrevivable for the rest of a match/a floor may make more sense, though. Auto-loss if he dies just makes him sub-Blue at the first two floors of the dungeon, though.

[SnowFire]

FWIW... and this applies to the "team is unrevivable" Sealstone suggestion before as well...  I'm really not a huge fan of unreviveableness in the dungeon.  It's not so bad if Souji's teammates are automatically assumed to be able to cover for him if he would die (though..  if all 4 will do this...  Souji's like a 7.0 pick), but if this isn't true, then the DUngeon is way swingier than usual.  The difference between being able to kill Souji and not being able to is gigantic.  In the normal dungeon, the difference between "winning the fight" and "winning the fight but with casualties" is generally some MP strain.  With unrevivable characters, the difference is gigantic.  It's probably best to keep these kinds of splits downplayed.

Though on the Sealstone note, another idea:

Afterburn - All abilities that cost MP (PP, EP, etc.) have their costs doubled.  If the MP-cost effect would inflict damage, it also heals the caster by an amount equal to the damage dealt; if it would heal characters, the healing is increased by 50%.  Status, buffs, and debuffs are unaffected (but still cost more!).

The temptation with something like MP Turbo is to increase damage, but that'd just be positively unholy on fast mages with good resource pools who'd consistently splatter the opposing team early round 1.  Parasitic healing is a handy bonus, allowing your damage dealers to heal themselves and allowing the team to skimp on healing a bit, but doesn't completely turn fights upside down.  Also note that the parasitic healing doesn't happen on any damage, just damage that would cost MP.  As compensation, this does constrain team selection as anybody with shallow resource pools becomes positively awful.  Seems like it'd work best on someone like FFMQ Benjamin, who'd be able to heal off any early damage with his own good magic damage, has a good physical fallback if he wants to conserve resources, and his MT Healing is now full.

[Magic Fanatic]

Going WAY off topic...

Mario - Somewhere between 2 and 3

Pros:  Average-ish stats!  Game best damage!  Gets AWESOME unique accessory options!  Jump has it's own element!
Cons:  Average-ish stats.  Damage is very interpretive.  Things that immune Earth MIGHT immune Jump.  Resource issues.

The only reason I bring this up, however, is the possible availability of all five SMRPG characters in the same team - even if it wouldn't beat floor 2...  Why not?  Nevermind the fact that the team would probably run out of gas on the second turn of floor 1...

[Clear Tranquil]

You can have an all SMRPG team with the snenergy stone!

**

I was thinking and here is an idea I have for after my LoD team gets in -

Project team-

Premise - Eiko + Peppita + Lise

Trio supporting unit (CT bait X3!)-
Eiko revives, heals/MT heals, shells, protects, hastes vanishes/MT buffs w/th Carbuncle + brings the magic pain w/th summons/Holy + statuses the susceptible w/th Silence/Mini
Peppita MT buffs ATK w/th Power Dance + brings freeze/chaos status as a bonus w/th HP/MP regen in a pinch (Eiko is your dedicated healer) + backs up a main physical offence w/th average to above average damage (depending on interps - you'd be hard pushed to relegate Peppita to below average physically unless you forced Faerie Friend to five hits or something *which is not happening* ^_^*) Someone else is your dedicated physicaller
Lise debuffs and .. uhhh ... does stuff!

No doubt I'd be able to do rants/rambles on Lise if I'd saw more of her >_> Like beyond the start of the game more. Does Lise benefit from Power Dance at all. Regardless this is a supporting unit so obviously not stand alone -

What I need -

Eiko + Peppita are 2HKO bait (unless you buy counters!) dunno about Lise so -

+ Extra reviver for if I lose the dedicated healer/reviver - DEF buffing would be nice too
+ Someone to take advantage of the brokeness of Power Dance as the main physical offence
+ MT offence?
+ Clarification on whether or not Eiko w/th Fenrir/Phoenix is enough magic for Rampage Drive
+ Sealstone suggestions

My current idea - VP2 Lenneth (3.5)/???/Eiko(1.5)/Peppita(1.5)/Lise (1.5) Edit - or Lenneth/??? (2.0)/Eiko/Peppita/Lise/Nall (1.0)

VP Lenneth brings powerdanced pain w/th unlimited healing/revival/normalize/buffers for the other girls + the potential of Might Enforce stacking w/th Power Dance for over kill. One thing though I forgot if Lenneth had any MT offence?

Points - 3

Considering -

*Rune - Peeps have brought her up for MT offence before. Is her MT physical or magical?
*Emily - As above + fast
*Raquel - Powerdanced DEATH ... if she ever gets a turn. That is my main worry with Raqual + my hesitation to use her ever. Again I forget if there is any MT offence here.
*Chaz - Another reviver w/th damage!? ST though I believe.
*Alternative suggestions welcome

If Lenneth brings MT I am also considering Jane w/th Follow Me so Power Dance is inititiave w/o interp wars! *flees* + Nall as a safety net.

Edit:  .. o'waite three points not four. Right *can't count*

There are durability + speed interp woes but oh well I can't have everything and trying to fit in everything is what screwed me over the last times I tried to build a team >_> I may also be laying on the physicals too thick depending on whether or not both Lenneth + Lise benefit significantly from Power Dance. If so I may want to balance moar magic in~

[074]

CT: Rune's a guy.  And his MT is magical.  To be fair, Hewn fucking SHREDS the first floor for the most part, and it's not too bad on the second.

Emily's only been brought up for MT offense on the basis of equipping her with the MT Sealstone.  She's all ST otherwise.

Raquel's in-game MT is Evil Blossom/Exorcism from the center hex.  Arguably not that hypable as MT in the Dungeon, though.

Chaz has only ST physical damage until he gets to...mid Floor 2, I'd like to say.  Airslash is MT physical damage equivalent to a normal attack.  Gets mocked by the likes of Crosscut for damage, clearly.

[EDIT] If you really want MT physical, you can only, as far as I know of from the games I've played, really get Chaz or Rika there.  Airslash and Disrupt are MT physical, again equal to a basic attack.  That's all you can really get for faster MT physical stuff(Unless, of course, you use the MT sealstone).  Ziggy's also a possibility, but he's slow, the MT starts weak, and it takes him some time for it to get going.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Chaz gets ZAN for MT damage before Airslash zomg. Airslash isn't that far below Crosscut, though, it works in a pinch (Crosscut only becomes his best spammable damage in-game at endgame anyway, and that's as much Elsydeon's Holy element sending things to the stars as anything). And by the time Airslash starts really sucking, Chaz has Megid, sooooo.

[074]

ZAN is MT, but it's magical.  And loltastic.  Or maybe lollicious.  Whatever it is, it starts with lol, because Zan's damage utterly -blows-, and it's only really good for starting Blizzard or Firestorm combos.

[Yoshiken]

P4's obviously a good choice for MT physical. I mean, Naoto starts with Deathbound amongst her other tricks.
And I... seem to remember someone mentioning Hiro having MT physical damage? Not 100% sure on that one, though.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

EBO Hiro has MT physical damage, dunno about EBC. Alex has MT physicals as well. Also, Naoto's MT physical is pretty poor, even if it covers somewhat of a niche. Running off Naoto Str doesn't help much, she's better off using Megido spells (...).

[Monkeyfinger]

Hiro got removed from the dungeon.

Chewing on this:

Tidus (3.5)
Mew (6.5)
Lucian + Shiho (9)
Nash (11)

Mew gets firefly sealstone.

First, off, notable TMs for Mew:

Cerulean City (I'd say floor 2)
Water pulse (strong water magic)

St. Anne (I'd say floor 3)
Brick Break (very strong physical)
Reflect (physical halving for entire party, lasts 5 turns)

Vermillion city (also floor 3)
Shock wave (strong, ITE lightning magic)

Celadon city (I'd say floor 4)
Aerial Ace (mediocre ITE physical)
Frustration (strong physical)
Hyper beam (overkill physical that makes Mew skip his next turn)
Safeguard (status immunity for entire party, ID still gets through, lasts 5 turns)
Light screen (magic halving for entire party, lasts 5 turns)
Taunt (forces the target to use only offensive moves for 4 turns)

Power plant (I'd say floor 5)
Protect (initiative move, invincibility vs. 1 attack, lasts 1 turn, fails if used after another Protect)
Thunder (very strong but inaccurate lightning magic)

Saffron City (also floor 5)
Fire Blast (fire version of Thunder)
Bulk Up (atk and def *1.5, stackable 6 times, self only)
Calm Mind (satk and sdef *1.5, stackable 6 times, self only)

Viridian City (I'd say floor 6)
Earthquake (MT physical that unfocuses, vs. a single target it's as strong as frustration (averagish damage at endgame))

Victory Road (floor 7 hurf durf)
Overheat (very strong fire magic that nukes Mew's SAtk for the rest of the fight)

Okay, so, in the earlygame Mew's an invincible tank who enemies throw themselves at. His damage is amazing for the first 4 floors and after that stays above average to both defenses (frustration and EQ are viable facesmashy at endgame.) As his durability starts to fall to merely "good", he has protect to still make use of the firefly; in fights where that's useless he just throws an MT buff over the rest of the party. Tidus makes the already strong offense of Mew and Lucian overwhelming, Nash statuses out key PCs, and Shiho is surprisingly useful with might reinforce and VP1 heal (those are all starting magic, right?) Biggest weakness of this party is lategame magical offense. Only mew and nash can do it, and nash sucks at it while mew is competent but not godly.

[074]

Oh, P4.  Chie's got it early(Rampage) and late(Agneyastra), but she fails it up midgame--probably pretty bad, given how midgame's generally the "slog" part for most teams anyway.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Hiro got removed from the dungeon.

Chewing on this:

Tidus (3.5)
Mew (6.5)
Lucian + Shiho (9)
Nash (11)

Overall mulling

Hmmm. Pretty daring design, but I can see where it comes from (and the offense, even if ST-heavy, can get overwhelming pretty fast with Tidus in the mix. Only one dedicated healer - one as frail as Shiho, particularly - is a bit worrying, though, even with Mew and Lucian in there). Mew really fills in a lot of holes - particularly offensively - and he enjoys, even if to a notably lesser degree, the kind of statistical dominance early that Kyogre gets. The team's overall speed spread is also pretty good (you're not hurting on initiative even before SS Haste/ga brokeds kick in. This is huge, and you're pretty well off when your slowest PCs are average speed). The real concern I have in the team, though, is Nash: he doesn't get his money status (Sleep) until floor 4, and until then, his statusin' really needs work for dungeon purposes, being turn two on average, and that slump could be costly. His offense is also veritably terrible until endgame, as you noted. I probably could do some scurrying for a PC that can fill in those shoes within the 2.0 premises if you care, although it may be hard to find someone with that status accuracy.

Also, keep in mind that, if he's under Firefly, Mew can't benefit from the defensive buffs, which can be problematic. Although I think this team has punch to handle the first few floors just fine. Will be interesting to see it unfold.